Why Do Low Watt Amps Even Sound Good?

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JLM

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Re: Why Do Low Watt Amps Even Sound Good?
« Reply #20 on: 11 Feb 2014, 10:53 am »
What does 'sound good' mean to you?  You've stumbled into one of the major "no such thing as a perfect loudspeaker" problems in audio in a big way.  Adding a sub would help drive the main speakers more easily.  And I for one listen primarily to speakers, not amps.  I say that because some get stuck on the small amp idea and make serious speaker compromises.  In the mean world of physics you can have deep bass, high efficiency, or small size (pick no more than two).  Jim Salk (here at AC agrees:  http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=56)

Omega speakers (here at AC) all sound good and they offer four 93 dB/w/m at 8 ohms bookshelf models.  They are single driver designs (F3 = 60 Hz, starting at $600/pair).

Decware DM945 is a larger bookshelf (haven't heard them), 94 dB/w/m at 4 ohms at $1000/pair and F3 = 42 Hz two way with ribbon tweeter, note that I've found the Decware house sound does not emphasize bass:  http://www.decware.com/newsite/DM945.html

Klipsch RB-61 is a larger bookshelf (haven't heard them), 95 dB/w/m at 8 ohms at $550/pair and F3 = 45 Hz, but I have my doubts that they 'sound good'.

Guy 13

Re: Why Do Low Watt Amps Even Sound Good?
« Reply #21 on: 11 Feb 2014, 11:11 am »
Hi JLM and all Audio Circle members.
I love the way you write your posts,
they are always well written and well documented.
Thanks and keep up the good work.

Guy 13

By the way,
I always learn something with each of your post.

bato65

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Re: Why Do Low Watt Amps Even Sound Good?
« Reply #22 on: 11 Feb 2014, 12:41 pm »
This is my opinion, no more than that, and less than $0.02.
"Sound good" to me is the sound of the living and breathing singers and musicians: immediate, clear, as natural and emotional as artists made it. After many years as musician and audiophile, I am still in the camp of "less is more". I still think that tubes are better because they sound more natural, immediate, probably because the signal travels through vacuum, as opposed to Germanium, Silica etc. in transistors.
Regarding a subwoofer - to hear 20Hz sine wave one needs the room where the seat is at least 17.2 m away from the source (speaker). Even the 30 Hz wave needs more than 11 m. Our bodies can feel those vibrations passing through, but that is not the sound yet. However, that is entirely different topic. To me, coherence and timing are most important, followed by range. Good SET tube amplifier is already very fast, and speaker which can transfer most of that speed can sound very natural. The snare will have that naturally compressed snap, you will be able to hear buckling of the skin of the kick drum, and cymbals will be immediate without making your ears bleed.
After many different combinations, I have now Cary 300SEI and Reference 3A Veena. Synergy is great, and in the room with 400(+) sq. feet I am listening with the volume between 9 and 11 o'clock - depending on my mood. But never any louder. Important notes: 1. no monoblocks / preamp, amp is PtP integrated; and 2. speakers are "crossoverless" design. Can't be more "less..."
Speakers are just a part of the equation. Whatever you choose, it will depend on the rest of your equipment and the room. All those speakers have a high sensitivity - which is good if you are going to drive them with SET amplifier. However, look the graph of resistance across the range, that should tell you what can be the best for 300B, 2A3 or alike designs. Fairly flat 6 to 8 Ohm is great, and avoid spikes. If you have PP amp, 30 wpc and more, wild resistance will progressively diminish as a deciding factor.
Ultimately, you are the deciding factor.
To round up my thoughts:
1. graphs, despite being great starting point, can not tell you what will happen in your room, with your equipment.
2. speakers are equally important as the amplification, as the source, etc. You are listening your entire system, from the stylus to the room treatment, and everything matters. Yes, cables too.
3. as a system progresses up the quality ladder, so is the resolution - but everything depends on your taste. Same as the good camera / lens combo: it all depends on what are you trying to capture - do you want to see that beautiful moment of a butterfly landing onto the flower, or to see the trace of its fart while doing it...

radarnyc

Re: Why Do Low Watt Amps Even Sound Good?
« Reply #23 on: 11 Feb 2014, 02:53 pm »
Quote
Omega speakers (here at AC) all sound good and they offer four 93 dB/w/m at 8 ohms bookshelf models.  They are single driver designs (F3 = 60 Hz, starting at $600/pair).
Agreed on Omega speakers and Louis is a real pleasure to interact with.

I now own a pair of Legacy Studio HDs (http://www.legacyaudio.com/products/view/studio-hd/) and I'm very happy with them. It's an efficient (93dB) 2-way 4-ohm speaker that they've somehow fit an 8" driver in a small and very solid cabinet (each speaker weighs 31lbs). I power them with a Red Wine Audio Signature-15 (30W in 4ohms and 15W in 8ohms) and the combination is fantastic.

Pairing of amp, source and speakers are key...