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Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => EVOKE Loudspeakers => Topic started by: Evoke on 16 May 2016, 04:16 pm

Title: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Evoke on 16 May 2016, 04:16 pm
EVOKE Loudspeakers has been created to build high performance planar-based speakers at affordable prices. They have been compared against products many times their cost. The first product, EDDIE, is a 3-way and will debut at T.H.E. Show in Newport Beach in 2 weeks! we hope to see you there.

Here's what people are saying:

"I recently heard the Evoke speakers with Nuprime electronics and have to say after going to at least 10 years of CES, and THE Shows in Vegas and Newport Beach, and listening to the most expensive systems at the shows, I have never heard anything as natural, and real sounding as this." shauk786

"Quick recap: These speakers are excellent sounding. There is great balance between the three drivers. The midrange is so clear and revealing. What else? I like these speakers! Imaging is exceptional in my opinion. These speakers gave me that "you are there" experience." mresseguie

Please feel free to visit the website at www.evokespeakers.com or our Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/evokeloudspeakers.

Here is the final prototype image of Eddie in production right now!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143126)

Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: mresseguie on 16 May 2016, 04:29 pm
"Quick recap: These speakers are excellent sounding. There is great balance between the three drivers. The midrange is so clear and revealing. What else? I like these speakers! Imaging is exceptional in my opinion. These speakers gave me that "you are there" experience." mresseguie"

 8)
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Wind Chaser on 16 May 2016, 05:15 pm
Any plans to make a high efficiency open baffle? Also interested in low powered SET friendly speakers. I think this market has yet to receive the attention it deserves and it would be nice to see more options.
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: DARTH AUDIO on 16 May 2016, 06:18 pm
Do you have a price in mind?
Title: EDDIE Pricing
Post by: Evoke on 16 May 2016, 08:06 pm
I'll touch on this now and expand later. EVOKE will have a "Founders' Circle" with introductory pricing. Eddie will be offered at $2995 a pair for serial numbers 007 - 0050. (The first 3 pairs are sold). The second 12 pairs will be a bit more. Founders get a discount on all future purchases and a trade-up policy.  Like I said - more on that later.
Title: EVOKE SET and open-baffle speakers
Post by: Evoke on 16 May 2016, 08:07 pm
"Any plans to make a high efficiency open baffle? Also interested in low powered SET friendly speakers."

Speaking of the future - We have many products in development. The prototype of a small 2-way is sounding really great and very efficient. Tuning the crossover and such may have some impact and result in a different woofer. So far, so good!

As for an open baffle, not initially. We have a larger format planar in development. If all goes well, there should be a prototype in maybe 2 years. Getting that right is a very challenging task. This planar will be the centerpiece of the Signature line - two top of the line products. They won't be as expensive as many others, but for EVOKE they will be at the top of our pricing.
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: BobRex on 16 May 2016, 08:53 pm
You might want to rethink your specs.  100 watt minimum with an 89dB sensitivity?  Really?
Title: Eddie Suggested Minimum Power Spec
Post by: Evoke on 16 May 2016, 09:06 pm
"You might want to rethink your specs.  100 watt minimum with an 89dB sensitivity?  Really?" BobRex

Thanks for your post, Bob. If I understand you, you think that 100 watts is too high a minimum? Please correct me if I'm wrong. EDDIE will work fine with less power by the way, but we "suggest" in the specs a minimum of 100 watts.

There are a lot of people not as savvy as those on the AudioCircle going to the website. I believe that you and the group know that there are many exceptional 50 watt amps that can out perform much larger amps. That said, I have a very good friend who heard Eddie and was amazed and wondered if they could use their receiver from a box store. Hmmm... So I laugh or do I cry?

So hence the "suggestion".
Title: Re: Eddie Suggested Minimum Power Spec
Post by: rotarius on 16 May 2016, 11:33 pm
"You might want to rethink your specs.  100 watt minimum with an 89dB sensitivity?  Really?" BobRex

Thanks for your post, Bob. If I understand you, you think that 100 watts is too high a minimum? Please correct me if I'm wrong. EDDIE will work fine with less power by the way, but we "suggest" in the specs a minimum of 100 watts.

There are a lot of people not as savvy as those on the AudioCircle going to the website. I believe that you and the group know that there are many exceptional 50 watt amps that can out perform much larger amps. That said, I have a very good friend who heard Eddie and was amazed and wondered if they could use their receiver from a box store. Hmmm... So I laugh or do I cry?

So hence the "suggestion".

I would think 100 watts minimum stated under specifications would not qualify as a suggestion.  I think most of us assume that to be a requirement.  You would be excluding most of us with tube amps with that spec.
Title: Tube Amp Driving EDDIE
Post by: Evoke on 16 May 2016, 11:57 pm
"I would think 100 watts minimum stated under specifications would not qualify as a suggestion.  I think most of us assume that to be a requirement.  You would be excluding most of us with tube amps with that spec." rotarius

What kind of tube amp do you have? If I can get access to one I will give it a try. I am still hearing EDDIE through a variety of amps - about a dozen so far. One was terrible and the rest have been very good. One thing I noticed with the NuPrime amps was that the 100 watt integrated amp almost seemed to be bred for EDDIE. And then I heard the STA-9. At the same SPLs there was more, for lack of a better word, authority. So there are significant differences between amplifiers. You can also hear the difference between DACs like night and day.

Thanks for your post!
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Early B. on 17 May 2016, 12:12 am
One hundred watts is a good suggestion.
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: JerryM on 17 May 2016, 12:41 am
One hundred watts is a good suggestion.

I think so, too.

Welcome to AC, Evoke! :thumb:

Have fun,

Jerry
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Evoke on 17 May 2016, 12:50 am
Thanks for your thoughts Early B. and for the welcome, JerryM  :thumb:
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: BobRex on 17 May 2016, 12:58 am
Take a look at other similar sensitivity loudspeakers, Let's open this month's Stereophile.....

B&W 802D3 - 90dB sensitivity, 8 ohms, Recommended amplification = 50 -500w into 8 ohms.  Notice that while there may be a sweet spot, there is also a "minimum".  And that's for a full range speaker. 

Now your ad copy didn't say 100 watts "ideal" or "recommended", it says "minimum".  Do you see the difference?  Do you see why I thought you might want to re-think that? 
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Evoke on 17 May 2016, 02:08 am
Bob - you're right. It is confusing. I'll fix that.
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: cliffy on 17 May 2016, 04:08 pm
Also note that the EDDIE is a rated a 4-ohm load. 
This would suggest the 100 watt rated into 4 ohm is closer to a 50 watt into 8 ohm load. 
That would be in line with the majority of similarly spec'd speakers.
Title: EDDIE Evoke Amplifier Power
Post by: Evoke on 17 May 2016, 04:37 pm
"Also note that the EDDIE is a rated a 4-ohm load. 
This would suggest the 100 watt rated into 4 ohm is closer to a 50 watt into 8 ohm load. 
That would be in line with the majority of similarly spec'd speakers."
Cliffy

Thanks, Cliffy - Great point. And I think we all know that a quality 50 watt amp is better than a cheap 100 watt amp. The biggest enemy is clipping and any amp can do it when pushed beyond its limits. Eddie presents a pretty even load to amplifiers. The main point is stability into a 4 ohm load.
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: skidro on 22 May 2016, 02:43 pm
Positioning question........how close can the evoke speakers be placed to the rear wall before it becomes "TOO CLOSE" and causes frequency response problems?
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Evoke on 22 May 2016, 02:58 pm
Positioning question........how close can the evoke speakers be placed to the rear wall before it becomes "TOO CLOSE" and causes frequency response problems?


There is a port on the back of EDDIE. You want to make sure it is not obstructed or the bass response will suffer. 12" should be fine. Other than that, it comes down to the acoustics of your room and positioning to create the sound stage you are looking for. I hope that helps - thanks for your question.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Rusty Jefferson on 22 May 2016, 04:43 pm
Welcome to Audio Circle. 

Interesting looking design.  I like the concept.  Any plots with on/off axis measurements? Any experiments with adding a dipole tweeter to increase the soundstage?

Not sure why folks are bothered by the amp suggestion.  Looks like these are clearly not designed for the small SET folks. The nature of a planer 3 way crossover speaker probably means they need some current to achieve realistic dynamic range passages.

I'm curious about the drivers.  Are they proprietary, or sourced? If sourced, what brand(s)?

Are you selling direct from the web only, or adding dealers?  Coming to Capital Audiofest?
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: dB Cooper on 22 May 2016, 05:27 pm
Coming to Capital Audiofest?
+1 on that request
Title: EVOKE Eddie Design Concept
Post by: Evoke on 22 May 2016, 07:37 pm
Welcome to Audio Circle. 

Interesting looking design.  I like the concept.  Any plots with on/off axis measurements? Any experiments with adding a dipole tweeter to increase the soundstage?

Not sure why folks are bothered by the amp suggestion.  Looks like these are clearly not designed for the small SET folks. The nature of a planer 3 way crossover speaker probably means they need some current to achieve realistic dynamic range passages.

I'm curious about the drivers.  Are they proprietary, or sourced? If sourced, what brand(s)?

Are you selling direct from the web only, or adding dealers?  Coming to Capital Audiofest?


Hello, Rusty -


Thanks very much for your email and compliments. I do have measurements of the reference model but don't want to publish yet until I confirm production models. Each speaker will be measured separately so it matches the reference speaker. I can tell you that the off axis response looks really great and there is minimal lobing vertically on the production sample. Response is truly +/- 3 db from 35 - 20K. 


In my life I've owned some wonderful speakers such as the Infinity Servo-Statik 1A. So ahead of its time - but a pain to set up and depended on the room mores so than a point source. I am playing with adding a rear planar on larger models  with its own level control - but that will depend on blind listening when that model is prototyped. Hopefully you will have a chance to hear EDDIE and you may think dipole is not needed. Even I was surprised after all was said and done with the soundstage.


The amp issue is very real for people. Yes, it's not a SET. It will play at lower levels with a smaller amp. But as you so keenly mentioned, current will allow for greater dynamics. Low current really makes the bottom end suffer...  One of my test amps - a hybrid with Class A tube front end and Darlington array on the back end tweaked toward Class A just falls apart on the bottom on higher volumes. The NuPrime STA-9 is awesome. The difference is outrageous. At that level you can hear the difference between DACs in a very real way - not slight but huge. (I am developing RUBY - a smaller 2-Way that is VERY efficient.)


The mid-woof is very low mass designed to match the planar. I chose the ribbon over a planar tweeter so as not to sound so sterile on the upper octaves. The Strat F1 planar is totally proprietary. I love that driver. From an engineering perspective it's amazing. They are substantial to say the least.


John Casler is the exclusive marketing guy right now for EVOKE. You may know him from VMPS. We are showing at THE Show in Newport Beach next month. Those are the only plans for right now. You can find him here on the EVOKE threads.


Please drop an email if you have any other questions.


Thanks,
Mark
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: KLH007 on 22 May 2016, 10:18 pm
Mark, You need to come East and show at CAF, great exposure on the Right Coast.
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Evoke on 22 May 2016, 10:37 pm
Mark, You need to come East and show at CAF, great exposure on the Right Coast.


Thanks for the invitation. I hope to travel a lot more over the next year. Right now the focus is on THE Show and all the excitement surrounding that. We might do a few road trips though. I'll keep everyone posted  :thumb:
Title: Re: EVOKE Eddie Design Concept
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 22 May 2016, 10:44 pm

In my life I've owned some wonderful speakers such as the Infinity Servo-Statik 1A.


Not many can say this!

I love J. Gordon Holt's review from November 1968:
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/845/index.html#mvuuMDj61khiEUTm.97
Title: Re: EVOKE Eddie Design Concept
Post by: Evoke on 22 May 2016, 11:02 pm
Not many can say this!

I love J. Gordon Holt's review from November 1968:
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/845/index.html#mvuuMDj61khiEUTm.97 (http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/845/index.html#mvuuMDj61khiEUTm.97)


I was so broke then. I thought $3000 was the end of the world! I had an Audio Research 3-way tube crossover, an SAE amp for the mids and way back then TAS loved the Advent 300 receiver - so that 15 WPC powered the tweeters. I remember taking an entire paycheck to buy a Grado Signature cartridge. In the SS1A brochure - one of the memorable lines said "Oh the responsibility to be an Infinity woofer". I still have that brochure somewhere. It was actually made for them by Cerwin Vega. That seems forever ago.  :D
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: dB Cooper on 22 May 2016, 11:43 pm
I read the Holt review. Interesting to see a loudspeaker whose base price was 2K 1996 dollars (translates to about $3100 in 2016 dollars) described as "appallingly expensive" by one of the foremost high end publications. My, how times have changed. Today, show reports by Stereophile and TAS don't bat an eye at reporting $40K speakers.
Title: Re: EVOKE Eddie Design Concept
Post by: Evoke on 22 May 2016, 11:51 pm

I was so broke then. I thought $3000 was the end of the world! I had an Audio Research 3-way tube crossover, an SAE amp for the mids and way back then TAS loved the Advent 300 receiver - so that 15 WPC powered the tweeters. I remember taking an entire paycheck to buy a Grado Signature cartridge. In the SS1A brochure - one of the memorable lines said "Oh the responsibility to be an Infinity woofer". I still have that brochure somewhere. It was actually made for them by Cerwin Vega. That seems forever ago.  :D


It's interesting to correlate that the for the price of an SS1a then you could get a Camaro SS.
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: dB Cooper on 23 May 2016, 12:00 am
Most people probably opted for the Camaro. At 29.9 cents a gallon, 13mpg didn't seem too bad  :lol:
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: opnly bafld on 23 May 2016, 12:16 am
I read the Holt review. Interesting to see a loudspeaker whose base price was 2K 1996 dollars (translates to about $3100 in 2016 dollars) described as "appallingly expensive" by one of the foremost high end publications. My, how times have changed. Today, show reports by Stereophile and TAS don't bat an eye at reporting $40K speakers.

1968
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 23 May 2016, 12:54 am
According to an inflation calendar, $2000 in 1968 dollars is $13,685.75 in 2016 $. According to my gut feeling, things are about 10X what they were, then—houses and cars, anyway. Tools are less than half the price, now. Good cheap speakers made in China are around a fifth the price, once you adjust for inflation.
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Joe Frances on 5 Jun 2016, 02:49 am
Where will the speakers be made?  Will they be sold over the internet; or through dealers?
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Evoke on 5 Jun 2016, 03:32 am
Where will the speakers be made?  Will they be sold over the internet; or through dealers?

EDDIE is made in Southern California. Product is available for sale now. I have a rep demo'ing in Beverly Hills. Not sure about the internet yet. But you can buy direct. Feel free to PM me. I'm speaking with several dealers as well across the country as well.
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: mresseguie on 5 Jun 2016, 05:14 am
"(I am developing RUBY - a smaller 2-Way that is VERY efficient.)"

This sounds interesting.  :wink:
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: JLM on 5 Jun 2016, 10:36 am
Audio inflation might make for an interesting thread.

Speaking of John Casler, the Eddie looks very much like the VMPS 626, perhaps the best overall (size, budget considered) speaker big Brian ever built.
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Evoke on 5 Jun 2016, 12:55 pm
"(I am developing RUBY - a smaller 2-Way that is VERY efficient.)"

This sounds interesting.  :wink:

Thanks for the comment. Ruby is sounding good.  Doing some final XO tweaks and she will be ready for John C and friends to make Final judgements before production.
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: Evoke on 5 Jun 2016, 01:01 pm
Audio inflation might make for an interesting thread.

Speaking of John Casler, the Eddie looks very much like the VMPS 626, perhaps the best overall (size, budget considered) speaker big Brian ever built.

Hi JLM. Good observation. Yes. Brian and Arnie Nudell influence me greatly. There are a few differences. The midrange is absolutely insane. And the XO is much more advanced. Response art THE Show has been great.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144279)
Title: Re: Welcome to EVOKE Loudspeakers
Post by: smk on 21 Aug 2016, 04:17 pm
IMO, I think answer to w/ch is not so much wattage available but a properly implemented power supply.