[AlliumPorrum]

I'm interested on building DIY OB speakers with Magneplanar's true ribbons, and GR's are one possible option for mids & lows. I think I'll use few (2-4) SW-12-16FR's per side for basses, and the questions are:
- What NEO's for mids would be a best match for such basses? How many of them per side?
- What do you think overall about this kind of setup; are there any potential problems, are there some reasons why this wouldn't be a good idea, etc.?

[Danny Richie]

The problem with using the Maggies tweeters and flanking them with anything else is that the Maggie tweeters have a pretty low sensitivity.

When I designed the LS-6 and LS-9's I used a much higher sensitivity custom Neo 8. I then had to design a very low sensitivity woofer with a low impedance load to get a series parallel group that would match the 91 db sensitivity level and 8 ohm impedance.

You can use a full Maggie and add a pair of the SW-12-16FR woofers underneath it in a W frame. I have had that on the drawing board for a while now. This will be great with their new largest model.

You can do the same thing with their smaller model and our new servo controlled 8" woofers. 

[AlliumPorrum]

Thanks for your reply, Danny! Couldn't this sensitivity issue be solved by using active crossover setup, and match levels with power amps' gain setting?

Surely the easy way would be to use Maggie's own drivers also for the mids, but I have read from various places that NEO's can be even better than them. Or do you disagree? ;=)

[Danny Richie]

Thanks for your reply, Danny! Couldn't this sensitivity issue be solved by using active crossover setup, and match levels with power amps' gain setting?

Surely the easy way would be to use Maggie's own drivers also for the mids, but I have read from various places that NEO's can be even better than them. Or do you disagree? ;=)

Designing an active crossover is no easy task. And an off the shelf unit of some kind wouldn't work at all with those drivers. It would also require multiple amplifiers.

Yes the Neo's are at another level. Check out these designs for Serenity Acoustics: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=109918.msg1133419#msg1133419

[Rocket_Ronny]

Hi Danny:

I am sure this has been asked before but I have not run across the answer.

Do the servo 8" offer any more detail and speed over the servo 12s? Can you share the sonic differences between the two? How close do 3-8" come performance wise to 2-12s?

Thanks,

Rocket_Ronny

[Danny Richie]

Hi Danny:

I am sure this has been asked before but I have not run across the answer.

Do the servo 8" offer any more detail and speed over the servo 12s? Can you share the sonic differences between the two? How close do 3-8" come performance wise to 2-12s?

Thanks,

Rocket_Ronny

I'll have to listen to them more to give real feedback and right now I am still waiting on the new amps for the 8's.

Just using the prototype amps I'd have to say that the 8's are a bit faster and even more detailed.

[Rocket_Ronny]

But don't go as low?

Rocket_Ronny

[Danny Richie]

The 8's can play to a -3db of 20Hz with no problem, but SPL levels are more limited on the 20Hz setting.

[AlliumPorrum]

Designing an active crossover is no easy task. And an off the shelf unit of some kind wouldn't work at all with those drivers.

Well Satie from Planar Asylym has replaced Tympani's mids with NEO-8's, with great success: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/16/160769.html

I have also read a few other similar stories on other forums, and that's the reason I'm interested on this possibility. I'm also going to give a try for DEQX, which gives a possibility to try & test different XO setting quite easily, along with equalization and phase correction for different frequency ranges.

But, how about the integration with GR's basses & mids, should that be a piece of cake in such setup? What would be the best NEO- model, and how about the crossover frequency?

[HAL]

I have a used DEQX 2.6P listed for sale.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=92678.new#new

I have the Beheringer calibrated mic and software for setup and they are included.

[Danny Richie]

The control system of the A370PEQ amp makes integrating them with anything pretty easy.

If you want to give Neo 8's a shot I have a custom version that I had designed for the LS-6 and LS-9 line sources. In the LS-6 I cross them at 1kHz and in the LS-9 I cross them at 850Hz.

See pics of those models here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=88629.msg870730#msg870730

[AlliumPorrum]

If you want to give Neo 8's a shot I have a custom version that I had designed for the LS-6 and LS-9 line sources. In the LS-6 I cross them at 1kHz and in the LS-9 I cross them at 850Hz.

Do you mean that high pass for NEO's is that 850hz/1khz, and basses are playing below that? I have undestood that highest feasible low pass for SW-12-16FR would be somewhere near 150-200hz, so can NEO's go down enough for them?

[Danny Richie]

Do you mean that high pass for NEO's is that 850hz/1khz, and basses are playing below that? I have undestood that highest feasible low pass for SW-12-16FR would be somewhere near 150-200hz, so can NEO's go down enough for them?

No, those are the crossover points for the LS-6 and LS-9.

[AlliumPorrum]

Ok, what would then be the lowest feasible high pass frequency that you can use with line of NEO's? Is it really impossible to match SW-12-16FR's for basses and NEO's for mids?

[Rocket_Ronny]

The 8's can play to a -3db of 20Hz with no problem, but SPL levels are more limited on the 20Hz setting.

What is limited? Can they do 90 db with peaks up to 100 db at 20 hz 9 feet away without strain?

Rocket_Unlimited_Ronny

[Danny Richie]

Ok, what would then be the lowest feasible high pass frequency that you can use with line of NEO's? Is it really impossible to match SW-12-16FR's for basses and NEO's for mids?

Those crossover points that I used on those two designs are about the limit of how low they can be crossed. I would also not want to use a crossover in the middle of the mid range. I'd rather try to stay almost an octave above the heart of the mid-range. And the real heart of the mid-range is 300 to 500Hz.

[Danny Richie]

What is limited? Can they do 90 db with peaks up to 100 db at 20 hz 9 feet away without strain?

Rocket_Unlimited_Ronny

I just tested a single trio letting it replace a pair of our SW-12-16FR's. I didn't try to measure any max SPL's.

I pushed they to their mechanical limits with music that had low bass signals. Then retested using the higher extension filters. The higher the extension filters the harder you can play them without reaching mechanical limits. Still for many rooms the lowest settings can be used for typical SPL levels with no issues.

[AlliumPorrum]

But hey, now I noticed that specs of the NEO-10 says "Frequency range: 150-6,000 Hz": http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-715

Could this be used as a mid driver on a line setup, between GR's and maggie's ribbons?

[Danny Richie]

But hey, now I noticed that specs of the NEO-10 says "Frequency range: 150-6,000 Hz": http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-715

Could this be used as a mid driver on a line setup, between GR's and maggie's ribbons?

Oh yeah, the Neo 10's are awesome. But there is no reason to use the Maggie tweeters with them. I'd use the Neo 3's and have much higher sensitivity (96db range) and cross them much lower than the Maggies ribbons are capable of. The low crossover point will give you a smooth off axis in either direction.

See this post: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110891.msg1146282#msg1146282

[AlliumPorrum]

Well the reason for Maggie ribbons is that I already have a pair:=) So I need something to fill the gap between the basses and them.

I also noticed that there is a RD- line with full length ribbons, but did not quite get that are they more tweeters than mids..?