Happy Vapor Customer

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pconley2

Happy Vapor Customer
« on: 14 Nov 2014, 10:56 pm »
given all the goings on back and forth, something has been lost in the discussion.  There is at least one happy Vapor customer, and that is me.  Sure, I had some excitement in the process of getting my speakers, but I went into the process knowing that would be likely, many thanks to all who posted about their experiences, but I believed, and have been proven correct, that Ryan offers extraordinary speakers for much less than extraordinary speaker prices.

I communicated with Ryan all through my process, sometimes it took a few days to get back to me, but he always did, and when the speakers arrived, they were as promised, beautiful and sounding unlike anything I have ever heard near their price range.

I spent 6 years deciding on what speakers to buy, replacing my beloved Dahlquists, and I expect these speakers to stay with me as long as they did.

Bash Ryan's business sense if you need to, and he certainly could improve on that side, but remember that if he had all the people to do all the things that are needed for customer support and responding, he would not be able to charge the prices that he is charging.

Srajan ends his review with "Caveat Emptor" and I agree with that but in a different way, Ryan will improve, his ability to manage his business will get better but I am also sure that his prices will go up more than they already have--beware of what you ask for!

standub

Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #1 on: 15 Nov 2014, 01:02 am »
As another happy Vapor customer I agree. :D

Factorz

Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #2 on: 15 Nov 2014, 02:46 am »
Add me to list of happy Vapor owners.

len066

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Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #3 on: 15 Nov 2014, 02:39 pm »

Good to hear something positive about Vapor experiences.
Many opinions out there to the contrary.
With no local demos available I will not be testing my luck or bank account on this one.

 

spreadspectrum

Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #4 on: 16 Nov 2014, 02:33 pm »

With no local demos available I will not be testing my luck or bank account on this one.
 

Would a demo really alleviate your "risk?"  Unless you bought that demo speaker, you'd still have to have yours constructed and, it seems, many of the complaints have to do with the build process.

My point is that there is risk in everything, whether you bought from Vapor or not.  I'd go so far as to say that even sound quality cannot be reliably predicted by most of us non-reviewer types with a limited palette of equipment experiences when listening to a foreign speaker in a foreign room on foreign electronics.  The absence of an "in-home" demo, to me, is ultimately a risk.

Furthermore, the internet, in my opinion has the potential to bring out the worst in some people.  It's like driving, where hiding behind the protection of the car's cockpit makes people do things to others they wouldn't otherwise ever do.  Hiding behind an alias can have the same effect.  So what's the truth?

I am nearing completion on a pair of Joule, and my dealings have been primarily by phone with Ryan and Pete.  I have had a positive experience, and I think that both of them are good people.  I suspect that many of the complaints may have to do with demand outpacing supply as well as other company growing pains.

People need to realize that Vapor is a small, custom speaker producer.  If you choose not to invest in Vapor, I would say make that choice because you associate with the instant-gratification nature of our society and cannot tolerate delays, surprises, or lack of instant availability of Ryan on the phone.  Personally, I wouldn't make that decision based on doubts of product quality or the notion of deceit or thievery.

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #5 on: 16 Nov 2014, 03:10 pm »
If you choose not to invest in Vapor, I would say make that choice because you associate with the instant-gratification nature of our society and cannot tolerate delays, surprises, or lack of instant availability of Ryan on the phone.
Bingo.
The sense of "immediate entitlement" now-a-days amazes me. This reason alone is why Amazon Prime is developing drones to deliver your package RIGHT F___ing NOW.   :duh:
The art of hand making something custom to a persons particular taste on an immediate basis is limited to places like Starbucks. The craft of building YOUR personalized speakers takes time. 

embz

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Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #6 on: 16 Nov 2014, 04:00 pm »
When I ordered my pair of Vapors, I was the Amazon prime type.  About 1/2 way through the build, I chilled out and let the process run its course.  After doing so I was much happier and stopped getting frustrated. When they finally arrived, they sounded great and I never really think about the build process anymore. 

csmgolf

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Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #7 on: 16 Nov 2014, 05:41 pm »
I am the owner of the pair of Arcus in rosewood that is the subject of a thread here from early this year. I have avoided saying anything publicly to this point regarding my experience with the build process. It has definitely been a mixed bag. There were countless delays during the process, which I waited out. A quoted 12 week build turned into 7 and 1/2 months before I received them. When I received them, they were cosmetically unacceptable and Ryan agreed with me. I will not go into the details, that is between us. To Ryan's credit, he volunteered to build a second set and place a rush on them due to the time I already waited. I would keep the completed speakers until the second set was complete and then we would swap them out. Very fair indeed. There were also design improvements made that are going into the second pair. They are to be the first built with these changes. It was after this point that I became overly impatient with the process. After a couple of monts, there was a period of heated exchanges between us (admittedly initiated by me). I was ready to jump ship on the process. Eventually, I took a step back, took a deep breath, and decided to resolve the issue and see this through. After all, I do have a very nice sounding pair of speakers in my room that I can listen to while waiting for the second pair.

Up until the point of my blow up, communications were poor, to put it bluntly. Part of this may be my fault. Being someone that has worked with his hands repairing things his entire adult life, I understand how disruptive to work it can be to answer the phone. The time spent on the phone is not the only time lost to work. There is a period of time to refocus on the job at hand. It is not as simple as picking up where you left off. It is commendable that Ryan does communicate that way, because it is much harder than what it sounds. For those reasons, I choose to communicate by email. This allows Ryan to pick up that communication at a time that is not disruptive to his work. Since the time of my blow up mentioned above, the email communication has improved. It is still not as good as it probably should be, but is moving in the right direction. To put the whole thing in perspective, the process to this point has taken 15 months. There is definitely pluses and minuses to going with a custom builder. Only the buyer can decide if the plus out weighs the minus. I have made my choice.  I am patiently awaiting the finished product and enjoying the product that I currently have. It has taken commitment and patience on both of our parts, but it will be seen through to the end. I am sure that it will be worth it when all is said and done. The pair of speakers that I will have will be unlike any other in the world and hopefully bring years of enjoyment.

Vapor Audio

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Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #8 on: 16 Nov 2014, 06:09 pm »
I am the owner of the pair of Arcus in rosewood that is the subject of a thread here from early this year. I have avoided saying anything publicly to this point regarding my experience with the build process. It has definitely been a mixed bag. There were countless delays during the process, which I waited out. A quoted 12 week build turned into 7 and 1/2 months before I received them. When I received them, they were cosmetically unacceptable and Ryan agreed with me. I will not go into the details, that is between us. To Ryan's credit, he volunteered to build a second set and place a rush on them due to the time I already waited. I would keep the completed speakers until the second set was complete and then we would swap them out. Very fair indeed. There were also design improvements made that are going into the second pair. They are to be the first built with these changes. It was after this point that I became overly impatient with the process. After a couple of monts, there was a period of heated exchanges between us (admittedly initiated by me). I was ready to jump ship on the process. Eventually, I took a step back, took a deep breath, and decided to resolve the issue and see this through. After all, I do have a very nice sounding pair of speakers in my room that I can listen to while waiting for the second pair.

Up until the point of my blow up, communications were poor, to put it bluntly. Part of this may be my fault. Being someone that has worked with his hands repairing things his entire adult life, I understand how disruptive to work it can be to answer the phone. The time spent on the phone is not the only time lost to work. There is a period of time to refocus on the job at hand. It is not as simple as picking up where you left off. It is commendable that Ryan does communicate that way, because it is much harder than what it sounds. For those reasons, I choose to communicate by email. This allows Ryan to pick up that communication at a time that is not disruptive to his work. Since the time of my blow up mentioned above, the email communication has improved. It is still not as good as it probably should be, but is moving in the right direction. To put the whole thing in perspective, the process to this point has taken 15 months. There is definitely pluses and minuses to going with a custom builder. Only the buyer can decide if the plus out weighs the minus. I have made my choice.  I am patiently awaiting the finished product and enjoying the product that I currently have. It has taken commitment and patience on both of our parts, but it will be seen through to the end. I am sure that it will be worth it when all is said and done. The pair of speakers that I will have will be unlike any other in the world and hopefully bring years of enjoyment.

Hey Cris, I have no problem with people sharing mixed experiences ... as long as it's factual.  Thank you for doing so here! 

I agree it's been tough, but honestly it's the difficulties that force us to adapt, learn, and progress forward.  In your case we learned a few things and won't make the same mistakes again.  With the Arcus we originally designed it to fit a specific form factor, that caused us to make the cabinet walls thinner than they should have been.  With the stacked ply construction, and approx. 35 butt joints running up the side of the cabinet, they are very prone to movement with changes in humidity/temp.  The thin walls exacerbated that issue, and when yours showed up you had a couple large signs of the substrate movement.  That prompted us to completely redesign the cabinet with much thicker cabinet walls, and incorporated some other improvements at the same time. 

I also learned just what a bitch Rosewood veneer can be.  Yours is a true 30+ year old Brazilian Black Rosewood.  It was incredibly oily and brittle, in addition glue doesn't push through the pores when it's vacuum bagged.  The oily-ness meant it had to be sanded and wiped with acetone immediately before bagging, being brittle meant you had to be VERY careful with it or it would shatter.  But it was the glue not bleeding through that really caused fits, glue would tend to collect in pockets under the veneer and form bubbles.  Very frustrating, but things like that are both the frustration and gratification of doing custom builds. 

Some of these issues are also direct result of making our designs so complex, and using unconventional construction techniques.  MDF boxes with all right angles are orders of magnitude easier to build than what we're doing, they're also full of compromises and we're just not interested in building compromised speakers.  So yes we create some of our own problems by insisting on the over-the-top construction, we've essentially had to re-invent the wheel because there was nobody with experience building cabinets our way that I know of.  Much like learning the ins and outs of finishing/veneer work, I finally feel like we have a solid hold on knowing what it takes to successfully execute stacked ply cabinets 100% of the time. 

I hope you know how much we appreciate your hanging with us! 

SoCalWJS

Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #9 on: 16 Nov 2014, 06:29 pm »
Brand new member creates an account to make disparaging remark?

Good luck Ryan!

paul79

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Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #10 on: 16 Nov 2014, 07:03 pm »
Ryan,

It is very cool that you are allowing things to be open about the issues with company and detail quality. That is a sign of integrity and the want to make a better more productive machine. For every unsatisfied customer, their are several more satisfied. It seems as though there are just a few that really have it out for you, and they may be somewhat justified. It happens. Bite the bullets and be done with them, is easy advice to offer, but some people just will not be dealt with. Trust me, I know all too well....

6moons.. Man, that's kind of screwed up over there!! I'll just leave it at that....

I have never read anything about the speakers not delivering sonically, and that is really something. I was a little put off by the cost increases, but that's business and to be expected. Shows and marketing take big money and tons of time to pull off. I really want to and will, hear some of your speakers! Keep the progress positive and forward. It is easy to get burned out with all the negativity, and I hope that will not happen. Stress does things to a man....

Keep your head up bro!

len066

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Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #11 on: 16 Nov 2014, 07:19 pm »
Let me pose this thought to all here.
You are interested in dining at restaurant for the first time and go online to read any reviews.
There are several to help you with your decision.
Ten are good to very good and ten are not so good to not recommended.

I merely stated an opinion based on my research.
Being a junior member has no relationship to the functions of Audiocircle.

Lets keep the positives coming for the sake of everyone.
For me my speaker journey continues.


Factorz

Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #12 on: 16 Nov 2014, 07:29 pm »
Len,
What a joke. You were looking to stir the pot and you know it. This thread was clearly for happy owners/customers of Vapor and I'm not really clear how your comment about having no intention of ever buying the speakers adds to it??

Vapor Audio

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Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #13 on: 16 Nov 2014, 07:38 pm »
Brand new member creates an account to make disparaging remark?

Good luck Ryan!

Lenny is a real person, he and I spoke on the phone a few times and exchanged numerous emails over about an 8 month period.  He was at one point quite serious about placing an order, but ultimately the couple people (and their multiple aliases) convinced him otherwise.

SoCalWJS

Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #14 on: 16 Nov 2014, 07:56 pm »
Lenny is a real person, he and I spoke on the phone a few times and exchanged numerous emails over about an 8 month period.  He was at one point quite serious about placing an order, but ultimately the couple people (and their multiple aliases) convinced him otherwise.
My apologies to Lenny  :oops:

With all that is going on, I jumped to a conclusion and it's a long swim back........ :oops:

I can understand Lenny's hesitation based on some of the comments, but I think that the Vapors are an incredible speaker. I've had the good fortune to chat with Ryan several times at both RMAF and Newport, both while listening to the speakers as well as after hours. He comes across as somebody who knows his stuff as well as sincere. A very good combo IMHO.

guest86232

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Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #15 on: 16 Nov 2014, 08:58 pm »
I haven't ordered anything from Vapor yet, so I can't speak to the customer experience.  But I think I am close to making that decision once I get funds lined up.  I can say that Ryan has been incredibly gracious with his time during the 2-3 months we've been talking.  I have probably spent 5 hours on the phone with him, and exchanged 20 emails.  I think the longest any email went unanswered was 3 days, and every time I've called he has answered.  He has a way of explaining his design choices that make complex ideas easily understood, if nothing else I feel much more prepared to make good choices when evaluating speakers.  I knew Vapor was making things differently.  After talking it became clear that it wasn't different just to be different, but because it's the right way to do things.  They add labor and cost in places where most manufacturers cut corners.  In short, the consultation experience has been far better than I've experience with any company, not just regarding audio. 

In that other sticky thread it was metnioned that he slammed other manufacturers, I didn't experience that at all.  And in fact Daedalus was another company I asked him about.  Ryan only had good things to say about Lou's work, he said that the tonal balance between a Deadalus and Vapor speaker is very similar. 

Ryan was even very open early on in our conversations that he has a tendency to overpromise on delivery dates and apologized for that.  As he said the only downside was having to wait, and I believe that.  They certainly appear to offer quality that you can't get elsewhere without spending $50,000.  Since I'm ready to be done with speaker changes Vapor is at the top of my list.

Pete Schumacher

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Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #16 on: 16 Nov 2014, 09:51 pm »
A big thank you to those of you who took it on faith and allowed us to build "one-of-a-kind" speakers for you.

Those folks who participated in this with us helped us to develop a wonderful lineup of speakers that meet the sonic demands of a wide variety of enthusiasts.  Without them, we couldn't have done what we have, obviously.  So again, thank you for your faith, trust, and patience.

But now that the lineup is pretty much established, we've created something that is too large for our small contingent at Vapor to handle on our own.  To address that issue, we are actively pursuing expanding shop space and adding local arms to increase the elbow grease coefficient.  We WANT to build these faster.  And we will do that as we identify the correct people to help in the endeavor.

We are a small operation that is experiencing growing pains.  We're working through them and thank those of you who have stuck with us through this phase.

To those who can't seem to find satisfaction with their experience with us, I'm sorry it didn't work out.  For some reason, your experience was not typical of the rest.  As for us, I know we try to make it right for every customer.



SearchOfSub

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Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #17 on: 16 Nov 2014, 10:50 pm »
Ryan,

It is very cool that you are allowing things to be open about the issues with company and detail quality. That is a sign of integrity and the want to make a better more productive machine. For every unsatisfied customer, their are several more satisfied. It seems as though there are just a few that really have it out for you, and they may be somewhat justified. It happens. Bite the bullets and be done with them, is easy advice to offer, but some people just will not be dealt with. Trust me, I know all too well....

6moons.. Man, that's kind of screwed up over there!! I'll just leave it at that....

I have never read anything about the speakers not delivering sonically, and that is really something. I was a little put off by the cost increases, but that's business and to be expected. Shows and marketing take big money and tons of time to pull off. I really want to and will, hear some of your speakers! Keep the progress positive and forward. It is easy to get burned out with all the negativity, and I hope that will not happen. Stress does things to a man....

Keep your head up bro!


Ryan and Vapor Audio did mention on a recent sticky thread that their builds have been getting better from the first quarter when they first started making speakers; hence the price increase recently. Ofcourse this is me playing detective work and connecting the dots, but his posts do seem consistent in this retrospect. It does seem these posts from Vapor are honest posts and suggest his bussiness ethics are stable enough.

On a second thought, the past owners have paid less for putting up with rather less than stellar woodwork from Vapor in the past, perhaps it's time to just let it go and move on.

bajaed

Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #18 on: 17 Nov 2014, 01:27 am »
As I have said before, Vapor speakers are a bespoke item that are well worth the wait. In terms of sonics and aesthetics, you would be hard pressed to find anything close for the money.  When talking to Ryan about his business, he doesn't focus on profit, it's all about engineering and constructing speakers that punch way above their price.

I have seen first hand the effort and science Ryan and Pete put into the design and construction of these speakers. The extremes they go to are amazing. They are willing to be very aggressive with exotic veneers applied to unusual shapes, that's not easy. Virtually everything  they are now turning out looks flawless.

 He really went overboard and put a ton of time into the finish on my speakers. I was patient and it was completely worth it. The veneer looks like you could go swimming in it. The sound is beyond the high expectations I had after reading reviews of Vapor speakers for the last few years.

After 4 months of ownership, I can state with conviction that Vapor will be the only brand of speakers I will own moving forward.

Factorz

Re: Happy Vapor Customer
« Reply #19 on: 17 Nov 2014, 03:19 am »
Great post. Keep the good vibes going!