AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Power Conditioning => Topic started by: jeffreybehr on 23 Apr 2019, 09:03 am
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After deciding to return the AQ Niagara 7000 to AQ, I ordered a PS Audio P20. I had considered a used audience aR-6 with Teflon caps but without all the fancier, expensive evolutions that audience loves. But I decided I wanted a more-active approach to supplying clean AC power to my equipment. PSA is building the P20s to order, so mine might ship to me by the end of next week. :green: :D :green:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193796)
(Foto by PS Audio.) With eight duplex outlets, it surely will have enough for my middling bunch plus some Noise Harvesters. For the input cable, I'm already using a premium, Neotec/Furutech 20-amp from a 20-amp branch circuit, but I'll have Sonic Craft build a new one using their new 6-times-11g. cable and AQ's heavy-silver-over-copper Mistral ends. It will be wired as 3-times-8g. and uses multiple-gage, complex-geometry construction and 6-nines-copper; it sounds mighty fine in long lengths feeding my poweramps.
Have slightly modified my 'new' equipment stand to accommodate the P20's 11" height.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193795)
Still have some finishing to do on that project.
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Wow... Yeah...
:thumb:
I am still paying off last year's madness of upgrading... But a PS Audio P20 would be on my list of wished for items.
Good luck.
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Do you really have that noisy of an AC supply? I rung my hands for years trying to eliminate all line noise. No matter what I couldn't eliminate it entirely.
I've tried every technology out there and in the end in my house I found no conditioner was best. Years ago I built a box with ribbon copper and plain Porter outlets. As a distribution box it mates well with my power cables (Stealth, DCCA, and Verastarr). So I abandoned all the efforts to 'fix' the problem and went with a plain passive box.
I know I have noise on the line but with a very quiet preamp and amp I don't get tweeter hiss now and that makes me happy.
I'm interested in how your activities work out and hope you can nail it. I gave up going around and around. All the best in your endeavors.
Regenerators
Magnets
Filters
Isolation trannies
DC blockers
Crystals
Single point grounding
Voodoo
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Agreed BRM. I bought a P15 which I sold soon after as it didn't yield a positive result in my home which had very low THD. I have heard it make a change subjectively however in other homes. I just use a zerosurge.com unit to protect all the equipment and that's it. Works perfectly for my needs here in FL.
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I think you mean THD+N. :thumb:
I had a P10 for awhile. I think it's a great unit, but like jtwrace, my AC is both consistent and apparently not too dirty. From there, I decided the main thing I needed was the best protection with as little harm as possible. I now use a modded SurgeX by ZenWave and am happy with the results.
I suspect the P20 will offer the most improvement of all the PS Audio offerings, simply because it has the largest transformer of them all. The bigger the transformer, the closer to isolation one will get. Plus you get the benefits of regeneration, of course.
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I decided the main thing I needed was the best protection with as little harm as possible. I now use a modded SurgeX by ZenWave and am happy with the results.
Yeah, me, too, after trying a lot of stuff, including BPT. I realized that the better built my components became, the less I needed a big-ass power conditioner. Nevertheless, I'm still curious about the benefits of a regenerator, so I'm interested in hearing about your experience with the P20.
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Make sure you try plugging the amp in the wall. Many amps sound better that way.
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Make sure you try plugging the amp in the wall. Many amps sound better that way.
There's no 'the amp'. In stereo-only, there are four poweramps--two Atma-Sphere M-60s and two Rythmik plateamps for the open-baffle woofers--and in multichannel-music and movie modes, there are seven... I've never heard the system sound better with poweramps plugged into a wall outlet rather than into the system's p-con.
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Wow... Yeah...
:thumb:
I am still paying off last year's madness of upgrading... But a PS Audio P20 would be on my list of wished for items. Good luck.
TYVM Elizabeth. I'm fortunate that my retirement funds can cover an occasional piece like the P20.. Actually, sales of surplus equipment have covered the majority of the cost of new stuff last and this year.
To all others concerning system noise, the point of power conditioning, at least as far as I understand it, is NOT necessarity to reduce the noise coming from our speakers but is to reduce the THD+N (that is, EMI) on the AC line to improve the QUALITY of the music.. The quality of my system's music improves with each increase in the quality of the p-con.. At age 75, I'm really hoping this is the LAST p-con I will ever buy.
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Last year I went for AC duplex. Bought three Furutech (on sale), Three more, a few more, a few more. 18 all told.
Mae a major improvement in the quality of the sound. And ten of them went into my current power conditioners.
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I have a P5 and it does a great job cleaning up my very dirty AC and also (even more importantly) gives me rock steady 118v to my amps. That makes a big difference in tube longevity I've noticed. SS gear doesn't seem to care about voltage fluctuations, but tubed gear sure does.
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The P20 is a beast. I also tried a P5 and with or without the amp through it I felt it held back the sound.
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The P20 is a beast. I also tried a P5 and with or without the amp through it I felt it held back the sound.
I'm running a 7 watt amp :P
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I have a P5 and it does a great job cleaning up my very dirty AC and also (even more importantly) gives me rock steady 118v to my amps. That makes a big difference in tube longevity I've noticed. SS gear doesn't seem to care about voltage fluctuations, but tubed gear sure does.
Yup. That mirrors my experience also. It seems that the smaller the power supply, the more sensitive the component is to power fluctuations and noise. So things like source components, preamps, and small amps may be more susceptible.
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...
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See https://forum.psaudio.com/t/p20-arrival-and-installation/10680 for details.
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Looks very impressive. Why are you still using the BPT?
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See https://forum.psaudio.com/t/p20-arrival-and-installation/10680 for details.
If you're running tube equipment, some of it might be set to work best with 115v, while others at 120v. Depends on the circuit and the choices the designer made. I run my Power Plant at 118v output so it's within acceptable range for both possibilities. Oh man, it's crazy, my tube life has extended like crazy since I did this. Even if the Power Plant didn't improve sound quality in my system (it does), it would be worth it as I no longer chew through tubes every 6 to 9 months.
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Looks very impressive. Why are you still using the BPT?
TY.
I'm not. It's still in the stand so that I can compare its musical results v. the P20's without moving either--a large and heavy PITback--when I get to it.. All the p-cords will reach either unit..
Here's a new pic with six ISO-Pucks under the P20 and with the above-three shelves raised.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194138)
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If you're running tube equipment, some of it might be set to work best with 115v, while others at 120v. Depends on the circuit and the choices the designer made. I run my Power Plant at 118v output so it's within acceptable range for both possibilities. Oh man, it's crazy, my tube life has extended like crazy since I did this. Even if the Power Plant didn't improve sound quality in my system (it does), it would be worth it as I no longer chew through tubes every 6 to 9 months.
Funny--that's exactly what I set mine at.
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Here are the outlets and p-cords.. This is sort of a compromise between using NO Noise Harvesters and using many to reduce the perceived problem of cross-contamination.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194167)
From the left:
Bottom (with the gold-colored 'X'), 20-Amp inlet cable, a current-gen. Neotec 10g. with then-best, quite-expensive Furutech ends; top pair, long p-cords to main (Atma-Sphere) poweramps.. These are the new 'JBG Signature' 6X11 cords with AQ NRG1000 ends, now discontinued.*
Center column of outlets, the inexpensive 12g. extention cord supplying the two bassamps (plateamps) for the Super-7s;
Second-right column, shiny-black DH Labs Power+ 12g. cable feeding the Emotiva center-and-surrounds poweramp; and
RH column, current-gen Neotec 11g. cables feeding the 'most-digital' of my components, the Marantz '8805 pre/pro and the Oppo '203 discplayer, and two NHs.. With no NHs plugged in and both the preamp and DP turned on and 'idling', the noise measured at either unused outlet--in fact, at any unused outlet of the P20--is about 175mV.. Plugging in one NH reduced that noise about 10mV or c. 6%.. Since I'm an if-one-is-good-two-are-better kind of guy, I plugged another NH into the unused outlet.
I also plugged two NHs into the two unused outlets of the above-mentioned extention cord, adjacent to the p-cords of the bassamps.
* The 1000-series cable ends (last RR was $200) have been replaced with the Mistral cable ends, RR $120.
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Removed the original steel-shrouded hardish-plastic feet...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194210)
...and replaced with five ISOAcoustics ISO-Pucks, their lesser-expensive equipment footers*.. Looks LOTS better.. I really like the black on black; the much shinier OREAs would look a bit garish, I think.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194321)
* They seem to have the same feel, compressibility, etc., as the OREAs, they're simply less-expensively finished.
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Received a new input powercord constructed of the same 6x11g. cable I used for the long runs from the p-con to the Atma-Sphere poweramps.. It's again connected as 3x8g. and uses AQ 1000-series wall end and a new Mistral-series 20-Amp IEC end.. The AQ IEC connects more tightly to the inlet than the far-more-expensive Furutech FI-52 (R) did.. Looks and sounds just fine. :)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194558)
Have rearranged a few damping blocks, etc.; I hope I'm finished with this.. :) :| :)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194561)
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Hey!
Man! That thing is a monster! :o
I have been using the P600 since it first came out, I think I got it around late 2001 early 2002. I'm running either 18wpc SET or 40wpc SET amp. It feeds my entire system, except tuner, two cassette decks which I unplug when not in use and my DAC runs off batteries.
I like the sound of my system with the P600. When I plug everything directly to the wall, the sound just collapses. And I feel that this make my tubes last longer too. Well, I'm in NYC and I'm pretty sure the AC is as dirty and smelly as the NYC's subway :icon_lol:
I am curious of how the newer one are for sure, but they are pretty pricey now aren't they? But if my P600 goes I'll definitely get their newer model.
Buddy
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Jeff -- did you notice any sound quality differences between the BPT and the P20?
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Jeff -- did you notice any sound quality differences between the BPT and the P20?
To quote myself in the PS Audio forum: "There was a clear, audible improvement in sound quality when I installed the BPT balanced-power p-con years ago, and from that excellence, there is an audible improvement with the P20… My system has NEVER sounded better."