DVA-M225 owners, what preamps are you using?

jandrews · « **on:** 27 Aug 2023, 12:30 am »

For those of you with the M225 monoblocks who aren’t using the AVA digital preamp, what preamps are you using? Do you feel it’s necessary to use a truly differential pre, or do balanced outs suffice?
Anyone using tubes before the M225’s?
Thanks

ArthurDent · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Aug 2023, 06:57 am »

So far I've used an AVA gen 1 FetValve CF, currently using my old AVA Ultra EC Hybrid Pre after rolling in some 6922 tubes in place of the original 6N1Ps. Swapped for 2 reasons: a) wanted to hear the Ultra with the upgrade tubes, b) the Ultra has a tube phono section while the FV CF has the gen 1 Vision phono. Each has it's character, I tend to prefer the tube phono. Mostly I use the DVA 225s in the summer, doesn't seem the most efficient use of energy to run my tube amp while simultaneously running an A/C to cool the house. Another couple of months I'll likely switch back to the tube amp for most of the winter. Both connect to the AVA R2X to convert RCA to Balanced, so can't really address the 2nd part of your question.

In answer to part 3 of your question, I also run a Modwright Modified Pio Universal disc player for CDs which has his tube mod, and have swapped in my old AVA Ultra Hybrid DAC for my AVA DAC5. Again to hear the difference with the 6922 tube upgrade. So, "yes" I have a few tubes before the M225s. I'd think the M225s would pair easily with most any good preamp tube or SS, and give a very satisfying result, fwiw.

morganc · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Aug 2023, 04:18 pm »

Quote from: jandrews on 27 Aug 2023, 12:30 am

For those of you with the M225 monoblocks who aren’t using the AVA digital preamp, what preamps are you using? Do you feel it’s necessary to use a truly differential pre, or do balanced outs suffice?
Anyone using tubes before the M225’s?
Thanks

I have found significant improvement using balanced vs RCA including the AVA Digital Preamp and an Okto Dac directly into the amp vs my favorite Unbalanced pre. I am not sure if they are a truly differential preamp or not.

I may upgrade soon, however The okto and the Ava digital preamp are both not only amazing, but also quite a bargain at its current price.

BadDNA · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Aug 2023, 12:13 pm »

Parasound P6 with balanced connections.

jandrews · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Aug 2023, 07:07 pm »

Thanks for the replies
I know there are more M225 users out there...where are they?
@morganc, Great to know re: the Digital Preamp and the Okto dac. As far as I can tell they are both truly differential but not 100%
Do you stream directly via the Okto's ethernet port? Which unit are you using more?
I'm primarily drawn to the AVA Digital Preamp but just want to know my options before buying a pair of Monos.

CC · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Aug 2023, 12:36 am »

I’m using a Modwright 36.5 with good results. I’d like to hear what a fully balanced pre would sound like though.

lovelexicon · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Aug 2023, 01:33 am »

Parasound P7 with balanced connections.

This is a pure analog preamp---no HDMI, no coaxial, no optical inputs/outputs.

This model has been discontinued.

This pairing with the DVA-M225 sounds wonderful!

morganc · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Aug 2023, 01:41 am »

Quote from: jandrews on 29 Aug 2023, 07:07 pm

Thanks for the replies
I know there are more M225 users out there...where are they?
@morganc, Great to know re: the Digital Preamp and the Okto dac. As far as I can tell they are both truly differential but not 100%
Do you stream directly via the Okto's ethernet port? Which unit are you using more?
I'm primarily drawn to the AVA Digital Preamp but just want to know my options before buying a pair of Monos.

IME the DVA 225s sound wonderful with any balanced Preamp. I didn't like them as much with my single ended Tube Preamp. The aVA Pre and the Okto are voiced very similarly IMO. Im using an Aurender Streamer. Lastest toy is en route the Holo Spring KTE with preamp. I believe it will be a notch above the Okto but we will see.

And for the record I've tried a dozen or more amps with my Spatials and the pairing with the DVA 225s is the best I've had so far in my large living room (large living room for me makes a high power amp mandatory as low watt tubes just aren't enough ).

Huskerbryce · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Aug 2023, 07:06 am »

I have DVA M750’s on order. Not exactly, but closely applicable to m225s. Will be using an Emotiva XMC-2 pre pro. XLR outputs. Not sure to the truly differential pre. Differential to me means that it only amplifies the difference in signal at the original input. (Eliminating noise) I think its always about (noise). Im under the premise XLR was designed to allow longer runs of cable in pro settings while eliminating ground loop (hum) issues. I am not an expert EE guy. Only a hobbyist. I hope I dont get flamed for saying that my audio wire affiliation is far flung toward the cheap side. I would never spend $$$$$ on a run of copper because it was hyped as superb. The electrons moving through the copper dont care how much you spent per foot on your wires. However, XLR IS NOT snake oil. Its laws of physics, electronic engineering stuff. Compared to my RCA days, XLR offers more gain, less hum, less noise and ease of use especially on a subwoofer run 50 ft away. I still use RCA on some stuff. RCA is not terrible but in certain applications balanced is better. Email Frank. I bet he could write a Phd paper on the subject.

NIGHTFALL1970 · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 Aug 2023, 01:49 am »

I use the AVA DVA preamp with the M225 mono blocks and my Magnepan 1.7s sound better than ever.

Mary · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 Aug 2023, 01:48 pm »

If you drive a bridged differential amplifier like the DVA M225 or DVA M700 with a single-ended source, it won't perform as intended. This means if you are using a source that only has RCA outputs, you'll need something like our R2X to convert that signal into a proper differential one. A simple cable that converts RCA to XLR won't do it. The R2X adds very little coloration of its own, so you can use it with confidence.

morganc · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 Aug 2023, 09:12 pm »

Quote from: Mary on 31 Aug 2023, 01:48 pm

If you drive a bridged differential amplifier like the DVA M225 or DVA M700 with a single-ended source, it won't perform as intended. This means if you are using a source that only has RCA outputs, you'll need something like our R2X to convert that signal into a proper differential one. A simple cable that converts RCA to XLR won't do it. The R2X adds very little coloration of its own, so you can use it with confidence.

I tried this ( and have one for sale if anyone wants to give it a try) and it worked well with a tube Preamp, however the AVa Pre took the music to a much better level with Xlr cables.

AndrewA · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 Aug 2023, 10:48 pm »

As I understand it (but don't understand the electrical theory) there's a difference between true differential and what one might call convenience XLR. The fact that a preamp has XLR outputs doesn't guarantee that it has true differential output. For instance, over on Audiogon Atmasphere makes a point of stressing that all his components are true differential, whereas some other brands aren't.

I used a Backert preamp with the 225s that I had, and it worked fine. I don't know whether it was true differential or not. I suspect that the 225s don't need a true differential input, just a properly implemented XLR output from the preamp (i.e. something more than what happens in a RCA to XLR adapter), but it would be nice if someone could confirm.

Mary · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Sep 2023, 04:33 pm »

Disclaimer: I had help with this answer

Both the DVA M225 and DVA M750 require true differential inputs -- as long as we mean the same thing here. These amps require an XLR connection where (a) both the hot and cold signals are driven, (b) the hot and cold signals are inverted versions of each other, and (c) the ground connection is actually connected to the source's signal ground. In some cases (c) won't be required. Fortunately, this is how the majority of line-level equipment with XLR outputs is configured today.

Also, to clarify any possible confusion, both the DVA M225 and DVA M750 will produce output with sources that don't meet (a) and (b). However, they won't reap the benefits of the bridged configuration these amps use, and so they won't sound as good nor make the same power.

morganc · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Sep 2023, 05:00 pm »

Perfect Mary (and Frank!)

aln · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Sep 2023, 06:02 pm »

Are you designing a xlr based preamp to work with the differential power amps?

morganc · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Sep 2023, 06:12 pm »

Quote from: aln on 5 Sep 2023, 06:02 pm

Are you designing a xlr based preamp to work with the differential power amps?

The Ava digital preamp on their site as discussed above is an xlr preamp and Dac! To my ears it's Incredible.

aln · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 10:43 am »

Something under development?

mav52 · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Sep 2023, 01:00 pm »

A friend uses a Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE with his DVA -225's. The STP-SE, overlooked a lot, is a true fully balanced neutral pre-amp. I do enjoy mine with my PASS XA30.

figcon · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Sep 2023, 08:37 pm »

Does anyone who owns a Fet Vave CFR preamp (maybe the Vision SLR as well) know how the lights on the front panel of the pre are dimmed and are all of the the lights dimmed, or some, or what? I once was a dealer for a company that let you dim a decent OLED display, but an eye piercing blue LED came on to let you know you dimmed the display and I didn't like that much. The display was less obnoxious than the LED.