[Light-Echo]

I'm sure this topic has been posted in other places, and please do provide links, but I've looked and the offerings seem somewhat sparse: There's no end to <$250.00 power cords, but I'm thinking those people who actually find some positive benefits to them are some of the few who either have awesome municipal power or have power conditioners or Dodd like balanced power supplies. I've seen the Majic Buss and this seems to be a relatively inexpensive start. But what about starting at the wall outlet? I have moved into a house where I'm not keen on tearing walls up to custom wire my listening room, but can I do something simpler like removing the common house ground, isolating it from the rest of the house, and give it it's own ground? After that (if that's even an option), what's the best way to clean up the power?

Also, once you have something like a Majic Buss or 'Power Regenerator', shouldn't you be able to use a quality power strip like a few I've seen on say VH Audio to get the right number of outlets you need? (I see some of those get expensive quick too). And then there's this idea that different equipment types (tube verses integrated, digital verses analogue, TV verses audio) seem to require a different type of power to optimize their performance. (I get this from seeing everything from the cheapo Monster power bars to Gary Dodds own Model 800 he currently has for sale where different outlets are marked for different types of equipment. Now I see that this can obviously be a sales ploy by the lesser companies, but when Dodd starts to do it ...)

What to do?

Regards
Dave

[Danny Richie]

Think of power lines and power cables as antenna's. They pick up all kinds of things, and shielding does not get ride of them. It often has the effect of trapping whatever is on the line. Shielding can help if everything is already off the line.

Various geometries are also often used inside the cables to cancel out noise levels too. This turns the cable effectively into a filter. This is also true for interconnects and speaker cables.

The best thing I can recommend is to try whatever you can get your hands on and see what effect it has.

I can send you the Electra Cable power cables for you to try and a Majik Buss too if you like. I always send one of the better Electra Cable PC's with the Majik Buss so that you can plug and play as soon as you get it using a good cable. But if you like, I can send you a handful of the cables to try.

Shipping on both a Majik Buss and an Electra Cable PC is usually between $14 and $18. On just a PC it is only about $8 to $9 and these prices are using UPS. So it won't cost much to see (or hear) if you get great differences or not.

The Dodd Audio balanced power conditioner is also really good. In comparison to a Majik Buss I prefer it. But it is not just blocking noise on the line. It is converting to balanced power (bonus!). It is also more expensive than a Majik Buss.

Now putting the Majik Buss, or even better, an Uber Buss, in front of the balanced power supply and now you get better results than either by themselves.

Keep an open mind, don't create expectations, and let your ears tell you the truth.

[dBe]

I'm sure this topic has been posted in other places, and please do provide links, but I've looked and the offerings seem somewhat sparse: There's no end to <$250.00 power cords, but I'm thinking those people who actually find some positive benefits to them are some of the few who either have awesome municipal power or have power conditioners or Dodd like balanced power supplies. I've seen the Majic Buss and this seems to be a relatively inexpensive start. But what about starting at the wall outlet? I have moved into a house where I'm not keen on tearing walls up to custom wire my listening room, but can I do something simpler like removing the common house ground, isolating it from the rest of the house, and give it it's own ground? After that (if that's even an option), what's the best way to clean up the power?

Also, once you have something like a Majic Buss or 'Power Regenerator', shouldn't you be able to use a quality power strip like a few I've seen on say VH Audio to get the right number of outlets you need? (I see some of those get expensive quick too). And then there's this idea that different equipment types (tube verses integrated, digital verses analogue, TV verses audio) seem to require a different type of power to optimize their performance. (I get this from seeing everything from the cheapo Monster power bars to Gary Dodds own Model 800 he currently has for sale where different outlets are marked for different types of equipment. Now I see that this can obviously be a sales ploy by the lesser companies, but when Dodd starts to do it ...)

What to do?

Regards
Dave

Dave, Dave here.

Good power starts at the panel.  First, make sure that all of the connections in the panel that go to the room are clean and not oxidized.  This is especially important for the mains cable drop that supplies the panel.  One of the great sources of low level electrical noise is micro-arcing that occurs between conductors from loose or oxidized connections.

I would advise against a seperate technical ground.  Ground to neutral potentials need to be the same and divided grounds are a no-no in that context.  This is especially if you have video equipment that has grounds that are established at satellite or cable entrances.  Many people forget that these have a ground connection.

The outlet is the next thing to look at.  For many circuits I really prefer the Pass & Seymour 5262 Spec Grade receptacles.  Other, more expensive units do offer a performance increase, but leave these to last as part of the fine tuning of the system. I have recently started using the Furutech outlets and much prefer them to Oyaide.  I need to thank Jeff Glowacki at Sonic Craft for turning me on to these.  Once again, make sure that the wire is clean and shiney before screwing down on the screws.  I reccommend using the side screws and not back wiring the receptacles.  It is easier to get a gas tight connection when you honk down on th0se screws.

Keep all of the blades on the equipment plugs clean and shiney... micro-arcing, again.  I polish blades with a Dremel tool and Brasso.  I really does make a difference that is easy to hear.  This next part is very important: if you can't hear the improvement that these simple things make, either you need to upgrde equipment or there are other, more serious problems.  I get my ears professionally cleaned once a year 

After all of has been done, then consider the other units that you have mentioned.  Of course I would love to sell you a MajikBUSS or UberBUSS, but get all of those other ducks marching in lock step before pulling the trigger on whatever gear you decide upon.

One final thing: don't kill yourself on the way to electrical bliss.  If you are not absolutely confident working with something that can kill you, don't.  Never, NEVER work anything hot and always use proper protective gear when working in an electrical panel even if you think it is denergized.  When I worked in the semiconductor industry I worked with energies in the 500,000 to 1,000,000 electron volt range and developed a very healthy respect and fear for electrical current and voltage.  My best advice is to do the same.

You will be amazed at what these simple steps will do for the sound of your system.

You will get a bunch of advice from these guys, so think about what will be said and don't be hesitant to ask lots of question..  You realize the need for good power and that is the most important aspect.

Dave

[Light-Echo]

Pleased to meet you Dave and thanks for the tid bits.

I'm in the construction industry, fire protection and sprinkler systems. Water and electricity .... bad.

Regards
Dave

[dBe]

Pleased to meet you Dave and thanks for the tid bits.

I'm in the construction industry, fire protection and sprinkler systems. Water and electricity .... bad.

Regards
Dave

Dave, anytime.  If there is anything that you need help on, this is the place to be.  Rarely does anyone give bad advice.  If it does happen they'll get called on it.  There is the usual batch of naysayers that you find on any forum as well as the other extreme but, all in all, you can learn and share a great deal here.

Water and electricity can be quite spectacular when brought together as long as one is just a bystander and not an unfortunate participant, huh?

Take care,

Dave

[Light-Echo]

Ok. What about that breaker panel? I have what are called Stab-lok breakers that just snap into place. This can't be the best thing to have in the supply chain. Thoughts?

Dave

[corndog71]

Oh no!

It sounds like you have the wrong kind of electricity.  Call your electric company and tell them you want the other kind of electricity.

[Light-Echo]

No way!!! I ordered the right kind I'm sure ..... I'll ask the wife.

Dave

[dBe]

Ok. What about that breaker panel? I have what are called Stab-lok breakers that just snap into place. This can't be the best thing to have in the supply chain. Thoughts?

Dave

Dave, I don't want to alarm you unneccesarily, but if you have Federal Pacific Stab-Loks they have a very bad track record in the industry and have been known to fail on trip or reset and start fires.  Please see this link:

http://www.inspectapedia.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm

Please check out the site and read the warnings.  Before I would worry about the audio quality I would very seriously consider having the panel replaced.  I am the son of an electrician and take all of this very seriously.  My preference is for Eaton Cutler-Hammer or Siemens breakers, but Square D is a good old standby, too.

Seriously, I don't mean to cry wolf, but I would check out what you have first.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

Dave

[Light-Echo]

Whew!! Nope. They're Federal Pioneer... That's ok. I'll pipe a sprinkler head over there tomorrow. Fixed!!

Seriously though, what would be the preference at the breaker panel? I can almost see it now... audiophile grade breakers for $250.00 a pop.

Dave

Still working on my font stuff by the way

[Light-Echo]

Dave

Is Square D or any of the others you mention held in and wired with set screws? This would seem the logical way to go.

Dave

[dBe]

Dave

Is Square D or any of the others you mention held in and wired with set screws? This would seem the logical way to go.

Dave

All of the manufacturers that I mentioned have several different mounting methods including bolt on types.  Problem is that you have a panel that is of one specific type and breakers are not interchangeable.  Best thing to do is call in some favors that you may have in the trades and get a local electrical contractor to look at adding a small subpanel to your existing service.  That way you can get a quality product in there.  There are oxidation preventing conductive greases that can be used for installing the breakers to more or less eliminate the corrosion that always comes with electrical connections.  Ionized particles are the enemy.

Lug mount circuit breakers are fine, as long as they are a quality product and properly installed and maintained. 

Where do you live, BTW?  Hopefully not close to an ocean.

Dave

[Light-Echo]

I live in the awesome Northwest Territories of Canada, right on one of the biggest lakes in the world ... nonetheless, it's still considered 'desert' for the amount of actual precipitation we get. I'm more worried about my ash drum kit or acoustic guitar drying out and splitting.

Dave

[dBe]

I live in the awesome Northwest Territories of Canada, right on one of the biggest lakes in the world ... nonetheless, it's still considered 'desert' for the amount of actual precipitation we get. I'm more worried about my ash drum kit or acoustic guitar drying out and splitting.

Dave

I get it.  I'm here in the great southwest in New Mexico.  I've got a bunch of guitars that go nuts in the summer time when our humidity goes from 8-9% during winter up to 80% in the summer.  Luckily it happens slowly enough not to be a big problem.  I have a '65 Gibson ES330 that doesn't like it much.  My acoustics are fairly tolerant of the changes.

Keep me posted on your quest.  I really think that just making sure that everything is oxidation free will be a great place to start.  I would do all of the things that I reccommended concerning tight, tarnish free connections and switch out the wall receptacles and see (hear) how that goes.  There is time to really get in there and tweak up the power later.  Infrastructure is your goal, first.

Have a great weekend,

Dave

[S Clark]

I live in the awesome Northwest Territories of Canada, right on one of the biggest lakes in the world ...
Dave

Great Bear or Great Slave?  I spent 3 weeks in a canoe on Great Bear in '82. We camped in Ft. Franklin and rowed down to the river and across and back up.  The people in the village were just unbelievably hospitable.  While we were in the town, none of us slept in our tents- the Mayor had people that wanted to put us up, just to have outside company and talk to the fellows from Texas.   It was a trip of a lifetime!  I'd love to go back again one day.

[Light-Echo]

'82 huh? Damn that seems like a long time ago now. I live in Yellowknife on the Great Slave and have been up here since '91. Suits me fine, but having the interwebz sure helps, especially if you have a passion like this one. Where else could I buy something like the GR N3 and then come to a forum like this and actually get great advice from people like Danny, Dave, Gary, Sean - there... I'm name dropping!! I'm glad you had a good time up here S. Next time you're by, drop on in!!

Dave