[Stubies]

Hi!  I'm new here, appreciate your help!

I use iTunes Apple lossless and an airport express in my bedroom connected to beolab 3 self powered speakers - I find the system dynamic but fatiguing

Could anyone suggest a new speaker/amp that would be non fatiguing and give great sound? Maybe with a small tube amp?

Budget is 1 to 2 k

Or any setup advice that would help to reduce the fatigue?

Thanks much!

[neekomax]

Hi Stubies. Welcome to AudioCircle. I remember my first post, asking about speaker recommendations. I had just caught the audio bug after a friend gave me a pair of B&W DM602 monitors and I liked the sound... but I wanted more/better. Down the rabbit hole I went  . But it's been a blast, especially bouncing stuff off the friendly and helpful people here.

 It is my opinion that speakers make the biggest difference off all gear, and proportionally more money and care should be spent on them relative to other stuff. Then there's acoustics, which are nearly just as important as speaker choice.

I see you posted a budget of 1-2K for the amp and speakers. You should be able to get really good sound for that.

My speakers use the KEF Uni-Q coaxial driver. I find them smooth AND dynamic. While they would have been in your budget, I don't believe they are commercially available now, except used, and they don't come up for sale very often. However, I would check out the KEF LS-50 monitors, which can be had for just over $1K used, and are very highly regarded, especially for smaller rooms.

Here's a used pair for $1190 shipped. http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649176286-kef-ls50/

And a review: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/kef-ls50-loudspeaker/

[neekomax]

By the way, the come in black and gold, or white and blue.

[neekomax]

As for amps: A quick search on Audiogon turns up lots of cool options. If you know what you want and can be patient, better deals can be had on eBay or Craigslist. I almost never buy new gear, by the way. Used gets you way better value, IMO.

My advice is to get a good solid state amp. IME, tubes are 'cool', but not necessarily worth the expense and hassles. Plus, tube amps can have an impact on the frequency response of your speakers depending on the impedance load your speakers present. You can end up with a surprise EQ setting that you might not want. There are exceptions, but they generally are very expensive. YMMV.
____

I have an earlier version of this bad boy. Solid as a rock, hard to beat at this price. Pros: SOUND, high current amp, good power. No BS. Cons: No DAC or remote.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-acurus-dia-100-integrated-amplifier-2015-03-11-integrateds-76210-denton-tx



Here's an option at less power (40 watts), but dig all the bells and whistles. Pros: Great I/O. No need for an outboard DAC to use the Toslink connection from your Airport Express, plus there's even built in Airplay! Also: Remote! Cons: Not as much power, so depending on your listening habits, it might not be as great at high volumes or with very dynamic music.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-teac-np-h750-as-new-with-free-shipping-2015-02-22-integrateds-14845-horseheads-ny

[Rocket]

Hi,

If you don't mind getting your hands dirty http://www.selahaudio.com/lineup/ has some very good quality speaker kits.  Completed cabinets for some of the designs can be purchased from parts express.

Gr Research have great inexpensive kits as well http://gr-research.com as long as you can do some woodworking

Salk Sound https://www.salksound.com/caow1%20-%20home.htm sells a nice little bookshelf for $999 and you can order custom finishes if you like.

Cheers Rod

[JLM]

Everyone has a different idea of a bedroom system.  I think of a smaller room, possibly a spare bedroom turned into a den.  In that case I'd recommend Salk WOW1 ($1200/pair) plus NuForce DDA-100 ($550).  See professional review linked from Salk site.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Consider Jolida-

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-13635-jolida-jd102crc-integrated-tube-amp.aspx

http://www.amazon.com/Jolida-Audio-JD202BRC-Integrated-Amplifier/dp/B007MMS0UG/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_2


I would consider Marantz if you don't go tubes.  A nice Marantz PM-7005 integrated can be had at a good price if you don't mind refurbished with a warranty-

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marpm7005/marantz-pm7005-integrated-amplifier-w/built-in-d-to-a-converter/1.html

A friend of mine just bought a whole Marantz system from that site, a PM-5004 and the 5004 CD player.  The sound is rich and leans slightly on the warmer side with good musicality and totally non fatiguing.

A few other options-

This Outlaw audio RR2150-

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

Peach Tree-

http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/all-products/amplifiers-dac.html

Teac-

http://audio.teac.com/product/ax-501/specifications/

[srb]

I've found many speakers with ribbon tweeters to very enjoyable and non-fatiguing.

Philharmonic Audio Philharmonitor  -  SB Acoustics + Fountek  ($850 shipped)

Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2  -  Seas Curv + RAAL  ($1448 + $36 shipping)

[Stubies]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions!  I really appreciate it.

I won't be able to reply to everyone -  I will research these suggestions and then have a few questions.

My main objective is to ensure the combination will not be fatiguing - thus i lean away from metal tweeters or digital amps (though this may be an incorrect bias based on a poor sampling...)

For example... as a main system,  I had B&W speakers (metal tweeters) that were very fatiguing.  I switched to Usher speakers and they are still fatiguing... so now i have Spendors S5e on order  - and a Little Italy Unison Research tube amp to drive them (I heard the Spendor D7s driven by this little tube amp and the combination was stunning! - and not fatiguing at all!!).

(and I like buying used!   )

For the bedroom system, so far I like the research results  on the Salk WOW1 or MBOW and would like to pair it with a Jolida tuba amp (maybe the FX10?) or a Peachtree amp

(The peachtree has the advantage of voltage switching - i live on an island where 220V is most common)

Can someone advise if these look like good combinations?  Anyone had experience with these?

Thanks a lot!
Stuart

[mresseguie]

Hello, Stuart.

First off....welcome to AC!

Funny you should mention the D7s. I just heard them for a few minutes this afternoon at a dealer in Portland, OR. I only listened for a few minutes, but they sounded quite nice. They have that warm British sound that is often heard in the Harbeths, Proacs, Spendors, PMC, etc. the D7s are able to reach for a bit lower bass thanks to the passive radiator below the mid woofer.

I didn't have time to stick around for a good listen, but it was enough to know they're pleasant sounding speakers.

Just prior to the D7, I got to listen to Focal Scala V2 Utopias powered by top of the line SimAudio equipment and the Auralic Vega DAC for about 30 minutes. If only I had $35k sitting around (just for the speakers!)....those speakers sound amazing.

On to your bedroom system. The above suggestions are excellent indeed. I can't fault any of them. Nonetheless, I'd like to throw out a couple ideas:

Have you thought about using powered speakers? The first that come to my mind are made by Vanatoo or Kanto (sp?). For about $500 you get pretty decent sound from speakers that plug right into your computer. If you desire better sound, there are self-powered studio monitors that easily get into the over $1000 range. I have not compared these, but I have looked into them in the recent past since I sometimes wish for a bedroom system in a vacation home. Most of the brands have run off out of my brain, but Adam, KRK, Genelec, Neumann, and Focal seem right. There are many choices in the sub-$2000 level.

Have fun researching possibilities. I sure do when I'm looking for this or that component.

Michael

[JLM]

Knowing your musical taste to be expressed in the bedroom, size of the room, and what flexibility you have for setup would all help. 

Take care to match speaker efficiencies/impedance ratings to amplifiers.  For instance the Salk WOW1 is low efficiency (83 dB/w/m), so the Jolida FX10 (with only 10 wpc) would be a poor match (I'd expect a muted, low volume only sound).  But the small WOW1 has the ability to work well in-room or on desktop (if that is a consideration for you).

Frankly quality tube amps start around $1,000 that output less than 10 watts (such as the $1300 Decware 34i).  And quality speakers tend to not be efficient while efficient speakers tend to be big or have limited bass.  Omega Super 3i ($600 in base finishes) is efficient and reported to work well with the Decware as a small single driver design (but a bit large for most to be used on a desktop).  OTOH the $650 Tekton Mini Lore (fancy finishes cost more) is an efficient small 2-way floor-stander that will offer more bass depth/feel that should mate well with the Decware yet is rated to handle 200 watts.

Powered/active speakers have been mentioned and can be an excellent alternative when used with a DAC/computer or DAC/pre-amp.  Note that compared to normal (passive) loudspeakers, powered speakers simply have a manufacturer matched amp built into the speaker cabinet while active speakers have a low powered crossover that feeds one channel of amplification per driver for superior sound.  But keep in mind that most active speakers (especially the cheaper ones) are designed for work in studios, so they are dry/extremely revealing and so fatiguing versus being emotional satisfying (whatever that means to the variety of consumer taste that drive the market.  Good "pro-consumer" choices around this price range include Adam A3X ($650/pair and another speaker that translates well from desktop to room wide use) and Focal CMS 50 ($1200/pair).  Just hook up to a quality analog source and you'd be good to go.

[geowak]

Here is what I have. But I would change speakers, if I could

Marantz 2235
Pure I-20 dock with dac (Iphone 5s)
Spotify streaming or Tidal Hi Fi streaming to Macbook pro
Monitor Audio BR1 speakers (would change out to Linn Tukans or B&W PM1s)

[Stubies]

JLM

Appreciate your thoughtful answers - I have been researching this a bit more, could i ask a few questions

Knowing your musical taste to be expressed in the bedroom, size of the room, and what flexibility you have for setup would all help. 

My taste are about as wide as it gets.  Often Jazz, dinner and lounge music - but sometimes rock, piano or just party music. -

A speaker must do piano well  (so many don't)- but i would like good base occasionally - my first and perhaps still old favorite speaker was the Genesis 1 (but i don't have them any more)

Powered/active speakers have been mentioned and can be an excellent alternative when used with a DAC/computer or DAC/pre-amp.  Note that compared to normal (passive) loudspeakers, powered speakers simply have a manufacturer matched amp built into the speaker cabinet while active speakers have a low powered crossover that feeds one channel of amplification per driver for superior sound.  But keep in mind that most active speakers (especially the cheaper ones) are designed for work in studios, so they are dry/extremely revealing and so fatiguing versus being emotional satisfying (whatever that means to the variety of consumer taste that drive the market.  Good "pro-consumer" choices around this price range include Adam A3X ($650/pair and another speaker that translates well from desktop to room wide use) and Focal CMS 50 ($1200/pair).  Just hook up to a quality analog source and you'd be good to go.

Would you connect a powered speaker to the Apple Airport Express audio out?  or is that just too optimistic?

thanks!

[Stubies]

Has anyone had experience with the Peachtree amps?

 these are nice because i could connect the Apple Express digital Tosh out to the Peachtree DAC (internal to the amp)

but how do they sound?

[mresseguie]

I've heard the NOVA125SE Peachtree amp. It sounded very nice, but the speakers were new to me as well. I wasn't able to compare with speakers that are familiar to me. It was nice enough that its little brother - the NOVE65SE on my short list of possible amps for a future bedroom system - especially if I can find a used unit.

I want something that includes a DAC and is easy to use. My wife will use it, and she insists on EASY to use with capital letters. 

I tried a Marantz receiver/DAC/CD player combo unit with 50W/ch last week, but it sounded thin and had weak bass. It lasted fewer than 24 hours, before I boxed it up.


 

[Stubies]

I tried a Marantz receiver/DAC/CD player combo unit with 50W/ch last week, but it sounded thin and had weak bass. It lasted fewer than 24 hours, before I boxed it up.

I agree.  I have a marantz av receiver that is considered terrific and, in theory, good enough to be a great stereo amp - well it is good, but plain and thin, and in reality not lovable - so it has a life in the tv room and no where else....

Appreciate your appraisal of the Nove.  Yes easy is nice, in this case because it is the bedroom system.  I would look at the same 65 Nove, or an early Decca.

[Stubies]

Funny you should mention the D7s. I just heard them for a few minutes this afternoon at a dealer in Portland, OR. I only listened for a few minutes, but they sounded quite nice. They have that warm British sound that is often heard in the Harbeths, Proacs, Spendors, PMC, etc. the D7s are able to reach for a bit lower bass thanks to the passive radiator below the mid woofer.


Michael

Michael, I agree the D7s were fantastic - I could listen to them for hours loud (i did). the tweeters are gripping and yet non fatiguing. when i receive the Spendor s5e and little italy tube amp - i will share more on the result!

[mresseguie]

Excellent. I'll look for you input here.

Michael

[JLM]

Stubies,

Yes, you can connect powered/active speakers directly to Airport Express (but it's only Stereophile class D rated, so I'd vote to use the optical output to a different DAC).  Note that some powered/active speakers also include a built-in DAC, often called digital speakers (such as the tiny $250/pair Audioengine A2+ or the well reviewed $800/pair KEF X300A), so you could bypass the Airport Express DAC.  In fact I auditioned the British $2400/pair Avi 9RS speakers (recently replaced with DM10) that exact way a couple of years ago.  Note that the KEF does not have subwoofer outputs, so no easy way to connect one.

[Stubies]

Stubies,

Yes, you can connect powered/active speakers directly to Airport Express (but it's only Stereophile class D rated, so I'd vote to use the optical output to a different DAC).  Note that some powered/active speakers also include a built-in DAC, often called digital speakers (such as the tiny $250/pair Audioengine A2+ or the well reviewed $800/pair KEF X300A), so you could bypass the Airport Express DAC.  In fact I auditioned the British $2400/pair Avi 9RS speakers (recently replaced with DM10) that exact way a couple of years ago.  Note that the KEF does not have subwoofer outputs, so no easy way to connect one.

JLM

I was thinking about your point that the airport express DAC is only class d rated - maybe this is part of the fatigue I experience with this setup - and I have been looking at the problem in the wrong way

Can you (or other members - all opinions welcome!) suggest some dacs that would fit this system?  Apple AE -> DAC -> Beolab 3 speakers


Ideally not too expensive and a bit compact to better fit in a bedroom?  The AE digital output is optical

Thanks!