Alignment Issue on Amadeus (?)

vortrex · « **Reply #80 on:** 23 Jul 2012, 03:09 pm »

Quote from: drubin on 23 Jul 2012, 02:13 pm

Where did the 19 degrees figure come from?

from an older thread...

Quote from: Mike Pranka on 3 Jun 2010, 03:10 am

If the Amadeus alignment gauge is located correctly, your head shell (and cartridge body) should be parallel to the lines on the gauge. There is a single stainless steel screw that holds the head shell to the arm tube and allows the head shell to be rotated and held in place. The head shell is meant to be at a 19 degree angle relative to the arm tube. As nice as it sounds now, you'll like it a bit better if you get it lined up.

Mike

drubin · « **Reply #81 on:** 23 Jul 2012, 03:12 pm »

Maybe it was a typo and he meant '9'.

Erocka2000 · « **Reply #82 on:** 23 Jul 2012, 03:31 pm »

Quote from: drubin on 23 Jul 2012, 03:12 pm

Maybe it was a typo and he meant '9'.

This is what I'm thinking. As a 19 degree angle would have the cantilever pointed inward way too much. And the fact that both James and I have the same readings after aligning to the grid. I wanted to take a picture with the protractor, but I don't think you'd really be able to make out any of the lines on the protractor (black lines on a black turntable).

jshefik · « **Reply #83 on:** 23 Jul 2012, 03:34 pm »

Quote from: drubin on 23 Jul 2012, 03:12 pm

Maybe it was a typo and he meant '9'.

He restated that figure(19) to me in an e-mail when I was going through this.

gagamut · « **Reply #84 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 02:58 am »

Quote from: Erocka2000 on 23 Jul 2012, 03:31 pm

This is what I'm thinking. As a 19 degree angle would have the cantilever pointed inward way too much. And the fact that both James and I have the same readings after aligning to the grid. I wanted to take a picture with the protractor, but I don't think you'd really be able to make out any of the lines on the protractor (black lines on a black turntable).

after a little bit confusion,now i understand,but the offset angle is exactly '19'degree (you can check from WT blog),if you cannot parallel the line,you better ask your dealer,find out the problem.one more thing,i didn't try other offset angle but i try different(stevenson,baerwald )null point,but the original null point is the best best best, at last hope everybody can get right setting,and enjoy it.

jshefik · « **Reply #85 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 04:06 am »

Gagamut, This is how I got the TT, which I interpret as 19 degrees. Is this how your WTA is aligned?

This is what the above 19 degrees looks like in relation to the grid. Far off.

And this is aligned to the grid, which when read with the protractor as in picture one reads 9-10 degrees. This is also the position that sounds the most natural and correct.

Is your TT's headshell set up like in picture 1? Have you tried aligning to the WTA grid? I don't care what degree this or that is. I want to know the correct setting, I am going with the grid unless someone explains to me why not to. Still looking for someone to give me the definitive answer as to this discrepancy...

gagamut · « **Reply #86 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 04:37 am »

'And this is aligned to the grid, which when read with the protractor as in picture one reads 9-10 degrees. This is also the position that sounds the most natural and correct.

Is your TT's headshell set up like in picture 1? Have you tried aligning to the WTA grid? I don't care what degree this or that is. I want to know the correct setting, I am going with the grid unless someone explains to me why not to. Still looking for someone to give me the definitive answer as to this discrepancy...
Posted on: Today at 02:58 AM Posted by: gagamut'

Hi,you mean you adjust the headshell to 9-10 degree for parallel the line??if yes,you are wrong.because you can also adjust little bit pillar or collar for parallel the line,sometime the golf ball may be not in exactly center,a little bit close to the cup but not touch .if cannot do that,ask dealer is better.

Sam

jshefik · « **Reply #87 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 05:13 am »

Hi,you mean you adjust the headshell to 9-10 degree for parallel the line??if yes,you are wrong.because you can also adjust little bit pillar or collar for parallel the line,sometime the golf ball may be not in exactly center,a little bit close to the cup but not touch .if cannot do that,ask dealer is better.

Sam
[/quote]

No, I adjusted to grid, when the sound was no better than my Music Hall 7.All you have said is I am wrong. All I did was align to grid. I really doubt you can get the headshell angle set to 19 and align it to grid. Look how far off it is in that picture. It seems like the arm pivot would have to be inches away for that to work.

Sam, So, your head shell measures 19 like in my first picture AND aligns to the grid??

vortrex · « **Reply #88 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 05:31 am »

I just printed mine out and while it's not square to the lines it's not as far off as jshefik's was initially.

jshefik · « **Reply #89 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 05:35 am »

Quote from: vortrex on 24 Jul 2012, 05:31 am

I just printed mine out and while it's not square to the lines it's not as far off as jshefik's was initially.

What's a mother to do? So, is your head shell at 19 then?

jshefik · « **Reply #90 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 05:38 am »

Quote from: vortrex on 24 Jul 2012, 05:31 am

I just printed mine out

Just gotta check, at 100%?

vortrex · « **Reply #91 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 05:46 am »

Quote from: jshefik on 24 Jul 2012, 05:38 am

Just gotta check, at 100%?

yes, it's printed to the correct scale.

vortrex · « **Reply #92 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 05:47 am »

Quote from: jshefik on 24 Jul 2012, 05:35 am

What's a mother to do? So, is your head shell at 19 then?

I don't have a protractor. I'll pick one up tomorrow.

gagamut · « **Reply #93 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 07:27 am »

Quote from: jshefik on 24 Jul 2012, 05:13 am

Hi,you mean you adjust the headshell to 9-10 degree for parallel the line??if yes,you are wrong.because you can also adjust little bit pillar or collar for parallel the line,sometime the golf ball may be not in exactly center,a little bit close to the cup but not touch .if cannot do that,ask dealer is better.

Sam

No, I adjusted to grid, when the sound was no better than my Music Hall 7.All you have said is I am wrong. All I did was align to grid. I really doubt you can get the headshell angle set to 19 and align it to grid. Look how far off it is in that picture. It seems like the arm pivot would have to be inches away for that to work.

Sam, So, your head shell measures 19 like in my first picture AND aligns to the grid??

Hi here is my photo,and i measure the offset angle is exactly 19 degree.

Sam

gagamut · « **Reply #94 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 07:49 am »

Quote from: jshefik on 24 Jul 2012, 05:13 am

Hi,you mean you adjust the headshell to 9-10 degree for parallel the line??if yes,you are wrong.because you can also adjust little bit pillar or collar for parallel the line,sometime the golf ball may be not in exactly center,a little bit close to the cup but not touch .if cannot do that,ask dealer is better.

Sam

No, I adjusted to grid, when the sound was no better than my Music Hall 7.All you have said is I am wrong. All I did was align to grid. I really doubt you can get the headshell angle set to 19 and align it to grid. Look how far off it is in that picture. It seems like the arm pivot would have to be inches away for that to work.

Sam, So, your head shell measures 19 like in my first picture AND aligns to the grid??

Hi,one more thing to remind you,you can check your 'instruction manual' pages 7,they said 'all the above adjustment can be fine turned when the cartridges is installed.'

Sam

Erocka2000 · « **Reply #95 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 12:56 pm »

Sam, that doesn't look like the Amadeus protractor. Which one are you using? Also, it doesn't look like you're lining the stylus on the correct null point regardless of which protractor you're using. It looks like the tip of the stylus should be where those darker lines intersect. Once you do that I guarantee you'll have to adjust the angle of your head shell so that it lines up correctly.

gagamut · « **Reply #96 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 02:59 pm »

Quote from: Erocka2000 on 24 Jul 2012, 12:56 pm

Sam, that doesn't look like the Amadeus protractor. Which one are you using? Also, it doesn't look like you're lining the stylus on the correct null point regardless of which protractor you're using. It looks like the tip of the stylus should be where those darker lines intersect. Once you do that I guarantee you'll have to adjust the angle of your head shell so that it lines up correctly.

Hi,the protractor is my previously WT reference tt,and i mark the null point 1 7/8,and the stylus is exactly place in the null point and i didn't adjust offset angle.it's true.
Eric,did you try and adjust the pillar and collar?(although the pillar and collar just can move a little bit,but it's help),i told you before you can adjust the pillar ,collar and headshell then make the cartridge parallel to the line.(i have a same problem before),hope you can do that.

Regards
Sam

Erocka2000 · « **Reply #97 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 03:13 pm »

My pillar and collar are pretty much perfectly placed, so that the golf ball is in the exact center of the cup. I'm happy with the way mine is set up and it even looks right when the stylus is in a record groove. If I have time today, I'll try to take a picture of what I mean. Regardless, even if I changed the head shell angle back to 19 degrees, there is no way any amount of movement of the pillar or collar will allow the stylus to line up with the Amadeus protractor.

gagamut · « **Reply #98 on:** 24 Jul 2012, 03:34 pm »

Quote from: Erocka2000 on 24 Jul 2012, 03:13 pm

My pillar and collar are pretty much perfectly placed, so that the golf ball is in the exact center of the cup. I'm happy with the way mine is set up and it even looks right when the stylus is in a record groove. If I have time today, I'll try to take a picture of what I mean. Regardless, even if I changed the head shell angle back to 19 degrees, there is no way any amount of movement of the pillar or collar will allow the stylus to line up with the Amadeus protractor.

if you satisfied,just enjoy it,happy listening

Sam

jshefik · « **Reply #99 on:** 25 Jul 2012, 01:31 am »

James,

The grid/protractor on the WTL site is incorrect. I spoke with Firebaugh today, he confirmed that the head shell angle should be 19 degrees. I haven't had a need to check the grid, so wasn't aware it gives a different result. I'll obviously contact WTL and get it fixed. Apologies for the confusion.. I don't know how that happened. Come to think of it, I've adjusted a local friends 'table with the grid a while back.. he had moved the head shell and I had him print out the grid. It sounded better than the much more than 19 degrees he had before.. but I couldn't say if it sounded better than the proper 19 degree angle. I'd be surprised if a 9 or 10 degree angle works better across whole surface of the record than Firebaugh's 19 degrees. He put a ton of effort into figuring this out.

best,
mike

E-mail just received from Mike Pranka.
I recognized the beginning of an album not as together as say after the first cut with the now deemed incorrect grid, but I am getting better overall subtlety and nuance with it. Maybe my truth is somewhere in between. I can't believe this table has been out 3 years, and this is the first it has come to light??!!