AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Headphone Mania => Topic started by: brooklyn on 1 Oct 2015, 04:40 pm
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Hi Everyone… The Headphone Mania Circle has been kind of quiet for a while so here goes.
I have about three hundred dollars burning a big hole in my pocket and would love to get a pair of
planer type headphones like the HiFiMan HE-400s to add to my current arsenal..
The headphone rig I have now is a Graham Slee Solo headphone amp, AKG Q701 and the Grado 325i..
I listen mostly to iTunes from a Mac Mini and vinyl through the headphone amp, No Dac.. I did use a
Musical Fidelity V90-Dac for a short time but was unimpressed with the sound I was getting. I do like
the sound I’m getting from either of my headphone’s but would like to try a Planer type.
I tend to like detail with smooth extended high’s and tight bass, like the sound I’m getting from my
Maggie's. Would I benefit from spending more money on higher end planers or is the $300.00 price range
good enough? I’m a bang for the buck type of guy but I’m thinking of spending more if need be.
I do love opinions so if you got one, pile in..
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I have never owned a set of those 400's, but I did listen to a set when I picked up a small NAD integrated 2 years ago.
As a current Maggie owner, I would say there is a relationship between the presentation of the 2, though as always with a speakers vs headphones discussion there are major differences.
My own headphone experiences are limited to a bunch of Grado's (stock and modded), a few Beyer's, and my current Senn Momentums.
Not sure your budget can take you any further than the 400's - reading Head-fi indicates good synergy between the Hifiman and Slee combo.
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Brooklyn, do yourself a favor and up your budget and look at the Audeze lineup. I own the LCD2's and will not part with them for all the tea in China. I have heard the HE 400's and they are a bargain for a planar headphone. Let us know what you decide on.
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If you will order a 400 make sure order it with a nice cable.
Stock Canare cable are robust but no great in 3D space.
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Moon Audio has the HE 400's with the option of cable choices.
http://www.moon-audio.com/hifiman-he400s-headphones.html
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At a significant extra charge.
I guess the stock cable dont will came together also.
I bough a 1.5M silver cable at HeadDirect(factory site) by just $65 w/ship.
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Thank you all for the quick replies..
Mcgsxr,
I appreciate the Maggie/Headphone comparison, that’s encouraging.
The only Grado’s that I’ve ever listened to are the ones I now own. While I do like the sound,
I’m not totally in love with them. I think it’s the look and feel of them or maybe it’s just me..
The Graham Slee is an awesome little headphone amp, I’ve been very happy with it so far. It’s
also has two inputs which I need. The Slee, HiFiMan combo might be the ticket..
Milford3,
I’m actually very tempted and have considered the Audeze LCD2’s if I decide to up the price..
I haven’t listened to my audio system for about a year now and thought maybe I should get
something that would be comparable in a headphone..
Thanks for the link.
Fullrangeman, thanks for the info.
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See if you can't luck into a pair of the old Stax Sigmas.
They're fugly as can be but they sound really nice.
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Hi Everyone… The Headphone Mania Circle has been kind of quiet for a while so here goes.
I have about three hundred dollars burning a big hole in my pocket and would love to get a pair of
planer type headphones like the HiFiMan HE-400s to add to my current arsenal..
The headphone rig I have now is a Graham Slee Solo headphone amp, AKG Q701 and the Grado 325i..
I listen mostly to iTunes from a Mac Mini and vinyl through the headphone amp, No Dac.. I did use a
Musical Fidelity V90-Dac for a short time but was unimpressed with the sound I was getting. I do like
the sound I’m getting from either of my headphone’s but would like to try a Planer type.
I tend to like detail with smooth extended high’s and tight bass, like the sound I’m getting from my
Maggie's. Would I benefit from spending more money on higher end planers or is the $300.00 price range
good enough? I’m a bang for the buck type of guy but I’m thinking of spending more if need be.
I do love opinions so if you got one, pile in..
I'll endorse what Milford3 has posted here. The LCD2's are amazing from fit to finish to sonic delivery. However they are three times your budget. I do have the HE400's and lb for lb I think the best bargain in headphones period. I don't have other similarly priced orthodynamic phones to compare to but I will say they compete very well with the Beyer T1. Their presentation is that good.
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Haven't heard them yet, but the new Hifiman HE-400s is suppose to be an improved 400 for the same price, worth a listen if you have a dealer reasonably close. I own the 400i and couldn't recommend them more highly. Unless you're talking about the HE-560 which is a 400i on steroids. But then we're moving up in price quite a bit as in the LCD2 recommendation. So sticking with your budget, I believe Hifiman is the only game in town, it's just what flavor do you want.
On another note, referencing your question about the planar sound in general, a much sweeter and rounded presentation than dynamic phones of the same quality. Not a loss of dynamics or detail, just a different flavor of sound. Another analogy would be the difference between a solid state amp vs a tube amp. Both can be great, but the context is changed. I recommend owning both dynamic and planer phones, for different moods and different music.
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Steve, I looked at those Stax Sigmas on the internet, I don’t think I can choke down
the look of those cans. LOL.. I always try have an eye towards esthetics to a degree..
Another ringing endorsement from the FireGuy for the LCD2’s. They look like the headphone
to beat at the 1K price range but $600 more clams? I’m thinking hard on this one.
Letitroll98, I’m also looking at the HE-400i’s as a viable option at the midway price
point. Unfortunately, there are no Hi-End stores near me, only Best Buy.. Thankfully,
there are online sellers with great return policies. I will have to weigh my options then
decide how much I want to spend..
I do appreciate the help from everybody..
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The David Mahler headphones test are very positive about the HE400 old model:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared
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The only Grado’s that I’ve ever listened to are the ones I now own. While I do like the sound,
I’m not totally in love with them. I think it’s the look and feel of them or maybe it’s just me..
If you like the Grado sound you may not like a lot Planar phones, many of them are much darker than sounding than Grado. There are mods for Grados that make them much more comfortable as well as help the sound. You could do some research on http://www.head-fi.org/ for the various mods. I have a pair of RS-2s and I modded them with Beyerdynamic pads to make them more comfortable.
I also have a pair of planar phones (Thunderpants TP-1s) - I like them both but recognize that they sound very different and which I listen to is a combination of what music and what my mood is
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I think the HE400 is not dark sound.
I cant inform about other planars
since I just have listen this model.
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The David Mahler headphones test are very positive about the HE400 old model:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared
Take what David had to say,with a "grain of salt".
You're probably pretty safe to accept what he has to say,if you listen to musical genres that are primarily Non-Acoustically based . A lot of the weaknesses (& some strengths) that he assigns to headphones have more to
do with his not really having a low enough "noisefloor" to actually hear what was going on in the recordings.
I've had or have several of the "cans" David compared. I was pretty shocked to discover that with all the Reference quality equipment he used in the course of his testing , basically no consideration was given to what kind of "line conditioning" was being used. It did however explain why I was hearing things differently.Using the best equipment doesn't ensure you that you have the best results if it can't reach the cleanest form of the musical signal. Most headphones are only as good (or bad) as the integrity of musical signal they're presented with.
I normally get a pretty good chuckle whenever someone brings up this thread. It's really a testimonial to how you can get bogged down with way too many incorrect concerns if you base your findings on assumptive thinking from the start. (All headphones sound a bit better with some amplification,but more than likely you may not need as powerful an amp as people insist you do for some headphones. Its usually something else creating a "power bottleneck" in the playback chain)
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Yeah, those Sigmas are ugly as can be but they're what I use as a benchmark against the actual stereo systems.
How can I get it to sound as good as those old Sigmas do?
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I’m a bang for the buck type of guy...
The king of bang-for-the-buck planar headphones has to be the modded Fostex T50RP, about $120 (stock) on Amazon. You can do the mods yourself, plenty of instructions at headfi. The mods involve mainly applying Blutack (or similar) and felt inside the cups.
If you prefer to not to hassle with mods, Mr Speakers is still selling Mad Dogs (modded T50RP's) for about $270 including very comfortable lambskin Alpha Pads (among the best headphone earpads). If you go up their line to Mad Dog Pro, Alpha Dog, and Alpha Prime, the mods get better and better, and the price higher and higher.
Mr Speakers is discontinuing modded T50RP's because they introduced their own planar headphone, the Ether (starting at $1500).
I modded my own T50RP's and bought Mr Speakers' Alpha Pads and suspension leather headband. I picked them up in Mr Speakers factory in San Diego and saw their 3D printers churning out Alpha headphone cups. Very ingenious! Other than that I am not affiliated with Mr. Speakers.
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I do take reviews with a grain of salt but you have to start somewhere. I prefer
what the audio circle members have to say, they haven’t steered me wrong yet..
As far as modding headphone or anything else for that matter. My view has always
been, if I purchase sometime and have to mod it, I probably bought the wrong item.
It’s a piss poor attitude but that's the way I feel about it. LOL
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I do take reviews with a grain of salt but you have to start somewhere. I prefer
what the audio circle members have to say, they haven’t steered me wrong yet..
As far as modding headphone or anything else for that matter. My view has always
been, if I purchase sometime and have to mod it, I probably bought the wrong item.
It’s a piss poor attitude but that the way I feel about it. LOL
You might be better off mentioning the things you would like the headphones to do, & then ask if the Hifiman's
are able to satisfy what you're looking for ?
I have the HE-6s (4X the cost & modded to suit my preferences) & think they're (now) great ! . If you ask more specific questions it may be easier for someone to jump in with a yay or a nay !
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There is no much to ask for at $299 consider the HE400S have now 98dB sensitivity, hard to beat it.
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My opinion, save your money. When you get $700-800, buy some cans that are significant upgrade to what you already have. Don't make a lateral move just because you have some money.
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These expensive planars need additional investment in amplification.
There are all low sensitivity.
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These expensive planars need additional investment in amplification.
There are all low sensitivity.
FRM, I already have an amp.
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Hi Steve, having limited experience with headphones, it’s hard for me know exactly what I’m looking
for. With all the years I’ve been in this hobby it’s been trial and error. I’m not tech savvy, I usually
buy what I think I need, audition it in my home and hope for the best. If it doesn’t work, EBAY..
First and foremost is comfort for me and I get that with the Q701’s. I would say I like my sound to
be slightly on the analytical side. I want the high’s to be extended but smooth and the bass be tight
and well defined… I’m a sucker for detail..
Smk, you hit the nail on the head, making a lateral move has crossed my mind. What would I gain
by buying another $300.00 set of headphones? To make my next purchase worth while, I’m going to
have to go more upscale........ It’s only money, Right
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Hi all,
a few years back when I was on planet Vietnam, I decided that I needed a pair of headphones
(Today, I don't know why I wanted a pair of headphones when my main system sounded so good
and playing music loud was no problem in our concrete made house) anyway,
I looked for many months for a pair that was comfortable, which was my first criteria.
I tried many makes (HiFi Man, Sennheiser, Audeze, etc...)
and found that my Sennheiser HD650 where the most comfortable (Withthe HD600)
and that I could wear it for hours at the time, unfortunately the sound was good in general but veiled or dark.
The pair of headphones that gave me the best sound was a pair of Stax Lambda that I owned 35 years ago,
lots of details and not agressive sound.
I still have the HD650, but If I had the money I would buy again a pair of Stax,
but there are other brands that sound as good and are half the price
(HiFi Man and Audeze and maybe OPPO.)
Please take you time and try, try, try it's the same as in real estate ,
you know: Location, location, location... :lol:
Guy 13
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Hi Steve, having limited experience with headphones, it’s hard for me know exactly what I’m looking
for. With all the years I’ve been in this hobby it’s been trial and error. I’m not tech savvy, I usually
buy what I think I need, audition it in my home and hope for the best. If it doesn’t work, EBAY..
First and foremost is comfort for me and I get that with the Q701’s. I would say I like my sound to
be slightly on the analytical side. I want the high’s to be extended but smooth and the bass be tight
and well defined… I’m a sucker for detail..
Smk, you hit the nail on the head, making a lateral move has crossed my mind. What would I gain
by buying another $300.00 set of headphones? To make my next purchase worth while, I’m going to
have to go more upscale........ It’s only money, Right
Alright, that's what I was talking about . Now we have a starting point !
I had the AKG 701 (before they started calling it the "Quincy Jones" model) & liked it . I suppose the only real
thing I didn't care about it was I thought it was missing some bottom octave information. I didn't find it to be
"analytical" sounding just pretty smooth & nicely detailed. The difference that we were hearing might be was that I was using a Consonance Cyber 20 tubed headphone amp with it .
I think the "analytical" characteristic you're hearing may be coming from your Graham Slee headphone amp !
I think that because the 701 is already pretty detailed sounding the Slee may be adding its own character to be strong in this area to a headphone that doesn't need that help !
At this point I'm trying to guess how the HE400s will mate with the Slee ! The treble on
the Hifiman's is different than it is on the AKG (because it's a dynamic hp). Hmmm...
it may work just fine with it ! (The only really hard to drive Hifiman planars are the HE1000 & the (supposedly)
HE-6. I have the 6 & it hasn't been that difficult to drive (but I use a non-HFM cable on it & Im certain the $5k
of line conditioning I have sitting in front of my entire system makes driving anything a permanent non issue!
Just some things to chew on ! Hope this helps.
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I think, as FullRangeMan implies, that you're going to have to invest a sizable amout of your budget into an amplifier to get the best out of planars.
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Hi all,
that's why when I've listen to the HiFiMan 400 planar headphones with my Bottlehead Crack
I was not impressed with the sound.
Guy 13
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The old out of the line HE400 have 93dB sensitivity, the current HE400S have 98dB much more suited to being drive by a CD player or PC board and the price is the same.
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Hi Steve, thank you for all the helpful info…
I didn’t mean the Q701’s sounded analytical but wouldn’t mind getting a touch of it in a new headphone..
I think the Graham Slee sounds very good with the Q701’s… I’m listening as I write this.
I’ve almost all but forgotten about the HiFiMan HE-400s at this point and focusing on the better planer cans.
I do realize some of the planer models are hard to drive but I haven’t totally ruled out also getting a new amp
in the coming months if need be.
It looks like the Audeze LCD-2’s are in the running. The reviews I have read thus far tells me that they might be
to my liking.. Two item’s that came into question were the words “dark sounding” and comfort. I will do some more
reading while I’m a work today.. I wish there was a Hi-End store in my area to give a few different models a listen..
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I don't want to get too into this conversation because I've not heard any planar 'phones... But I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned the Oppo PM-3 (well, Guy 13 mentioned Oppo). ??? They've gotten lots of positive press, are easy to drive, and only cost $400. The only drawback I see is that they're not open back. Aren't the modded Fostex models also closed, though?
Is there something about these headphones that I'm missing? :scratch:
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Steve, I looked at those Stax Sigmas on the internet, I don’t think I can choke down
the look of those cans. LOL.. I always try have an eye towards esthetics to a degree..
You're not alone, man...Steve has made several attempts to force these fugardly beasts on me several times. I feel that he completely abused my trust, as he knows I credit him for my love of Grados and Peachtree Audio...I never expected he would try to use our friendship in order to trick more of us into buying these things, just so that he could comiserate and share the pain of embarrassment among others.
Be strong, man. Don't give in to his audio voodoo!
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You're not alone, man...Steve has made several attempts to force these fugardly beasts on me several times. I feel that he completely abused my trust, as he knows I credit him for my love of Grados and Peachtree Audio...I never expected he would try to use our friendship in order to trick more of us into buying these things, just so that he could comiserate and share the pain of embarrassment among others.
Be strong, man. Don't give in to his audio voodoo!
I knew it…. Anybody that hangs out with lizards and snakes
shouldn’t be trusted.. I’m glad I didn’t fall for any of that crap.
Thanks for the heads up ajzepp..
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I don't want to get too into this conversation because I've not heard any planar 'phones... But I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned the Oppo PM-3 (well, Guy 13 mentioned Oppo). ??? They've gotten lots of positive press, are easy to drive, and only cost $400. The only drawback I see is that they're not open back. Aren't the modded Fostex models also closed, though?
Is there something about these headphones that I'm missing? :scratch:
Hi Megabigeye,
The fact that the Oppo PM-3 Headphones are closed back takes them out of the running for me.. I do appreciate the info..
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Hi everyone,
I checked the Audeze website recently to see if anyone in my area sold there products. I found out that some
Magnolia (Best Buy) stores started to carry them. As it turns out, they only had the EL-8’s set up and ready to
hear. The only problem was it could only be listened to though there Sony portable music player. I have
no music on my phone.
My first impression was I didn’t like the overall look of them…. I’m sure there well made but they seemed
cheep and plasticky to me, however, they were light weight and comfortable on my head. The sound didn’t
jump out at me but there was a smoothness to it and it sounded well balanced. I’m thinking a headphone
amp would have made a big difference.
Bottom line… I don’t believe I would buy that particular model but I did seem to like the Audeze sound which
means the LCD-2 are still in the running.. I’m also considering the HiFiMan HE-400i’s as a viable option at half
the price.
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I would highly suggest the Wywires Red headphone cable. I almost sold my LCD-3's, but with the cable, it's an entirely different headphone. One of the best $300 I've ever spent.
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I received the HiFiMan HE-400i’s that I bought on a Black Friday sale, I got them from Crutchfield
for 300 clams. Like I said before in my opening post, I do like bang for the buck.
My first impressions out of the box was that I received the old screw on cable connectors, apparently,
there are still a few around as stated on the HiFiMan web site. The cable itself is a little stiff and unruly
and only 5 foot long which is not a big problem for me, however, I do like the fit and finish of these
headphones.
I wore them for a couple of hours last night listening to a variety of music and found them to be very
comfortable and easy to listen to.. The Sound quality out of the box is very good so far, paperwork says
150 hour break in period.
Compared to the AKG Q701’s the HE-400i’s have a fuller, smoother sound and they also dig deeper. I
will have to see what the 150 hour break in period brings but so far, I like what I hear.
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I received the HiFiMan HE-400i’s that I bought on a Black Friday sale, I got them from Crutchfield
for 300 clams. Like I said before in my opening post, I do like bang for the buck.
My first impressions out of the box was that I received the old screw on cable connectors, apparently,
there are still a few around as stated on the HiFiMan web site. The cable itself is a little stiff and unruly
and only 5 foot long which is not a big problem for me, however, I do like the fit and finish of these
headphones.
I wore them for a couple of hours last night listening to a variety of music and found them to be very
comfortable and easy to listen to.. The Sound quality out of the box is very good so far, paperwork says
150 hour break in period.
Compared to the AKG Q701’s the HE-400i’s have a fuller, smoother sound and they also dig deeper. I
will have to see what the 150 hour break in period brings but so far, I like what I hear.
Brooklyn, concrats on your purchase of the HiFiman 400i's headphones. The planar experience is so different from dynamic types. My LCD2's took over a hundred hours of break in time. Welcome to the planar world. It only gets better. :thumb:
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I understand the point above about lateral moves,but... one of the attractions of the headphone segment of the hobby is that it is easy to swap out 'phones to get better 'synergy' between a particular recording, headphone, and pair of ears. So maybe to you, 'Kind of Blue' sounds better on Headphone 'A', and Chick Corea and Bela Fleck 'Two' sounds better on Headphone 'B'. And who knows, maybe I think the opposite! Maybe the differences can be EQ'd out- and maybe not. I think of it kind of like tube rolling. Sometimes it may be a synergy thing, sometimes you just want a different flavor. Not so easy with speakers, very easy with headphones. So while the LCD-X may be "better" headphones than the HE400, whether to spend the extra cash may be somewhat of a separate question.
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I understand the point above about lateral moves,but... one of the attractions of the headphone segment of the hobby is that it is easy to swap out 'phones to get better 'synergy' between a particular recording, headphone, and pair of ears. So maybe to you, 'Kind of Blue' sounds better on Headphone 'A', and Chick Corea and Bela Fleck 'Two' sounds better on Headphone 'B'. And who knows, maybe I think the opposite! Maybe the differences can be EQ'd out- and maybe not. I think of it kind of like tube rolling. Sometimes it may be a synergy thing, sometimes you just want a different flavor. Not so easy with speakers, very easy with headphones. So while the LCD-X may be "better" headphones than the HE400, whether to spend the extra cash may be somewhat of a separate question.
I don't know, good headphones can easily cost $400 or more. Then add an amp (or two), and you can easily be close to $1,000 or more for a single headphone setup. Granted, that's cheaper than buying speakers at $4k and up, but it's still pretty expensive.
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Its easy and cheap made DIY speaker, w/phones its impossible.
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Hey Brooklyn - for the budget and kind of sound your looking for, the HIFI Man 400i would have been my first suggestion - congrats! The Fostex T50 / Mr Speakers Mad Dog Pro are good headphones, but considerably darker in sound and heavier on the head vs the 400i. I liked my MDP particularly with heavy metal & classic rock with a good tube headphone amp. But they do want a lot of power and start to feel heavy on the head with extended listening.
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Thanks milford, I’ve been letting the new cans play almost all day to help break them in. I
listened again tonight for a couple of hours and I really like what I’m hearing, the planer sound
is definitely for me.
db, this in my third pair of headphones and while they all sound different, the HE-400i’s sound
better to my ears then the others even with different types of music. They seem to have a more
natural and less fatiguing sound quality to them but I haven't made any comparisons at this time.
ctviggen, headphones have become my main source of listening to music in the last two years
both from vinyl and digital. My setup with the Graham Slee Solo headphone amp is around 1k.
I agree, this hobby is expensive but when I think about all the hours of enjoyment I get, it’s all
worth it to me.
Hi jarcher, I also think the HE-400i’s was a good match for me. They are without a doubt light
weight even when listening for a few hours, they don’t get uncomfortable at all. Your right, I
don’t believe I would have been happy with darker sounding cans. So far, I don’t have anything
to complain about. It feels good to be able to hit the nail square on head for a change.
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Do you guys dont consider the HE400S?
It have 98dB and lower impedance=22 ohms.
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Hi FullRangeMan, the impedance of the headphones in my case didn’t matter because I’m using
a HP amp. I didn’t consider the HE-400s because I got the 400i’s for the same money on sale.
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Maybe you like it an explanation on HE400i x S versions:
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/3nerds/he400_vs_he400_s_vs_he400i/
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All I can say is I’m listening to a pair of planer headphones for the approximate money
I was willing to spend to try them. So far, I like what I’m hearing.. I have 60 days to
make sure I’m in love with them, if not, back they go.