AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The HiRez Music Circle => Topic started by: JLM on 14 Feb 2019, 11:04 am
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https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/02/14/qobuz-is-my-funny-valentine/?fbclid=IwAR2dT00ood775e49zj8bhZz1v7AmoqSF51ykN7HJbSe9Ax5svyTqS0xVkPg
Good news! It's finally here.
Am a Tidal subscriber, but not thrilled with selection and the push to pop/rap. Am still in the market for a music server with more storage than my lap bound general purpose MacBook Air that has 256 GB. Interested in the hi-res offerings and possible downloads.
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I signed up yesterday. I am already liking it better then Tidal but time will tell.
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I signed-up yesterday (Sublime+). I will be adding it to Roon this morning. I also have Tidal and plan to keep both services for the time being.
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Perfect timing, in the process to converting my home to DTS Play-Fi which is hirez compatible and the quboz app is already installed in the software.
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I'm impressed by their purchasing/download offerings - they appear to have a wider selection and better pricing (especially on high res) than competitors, especially if you are a subscriber. I get the feeling that Qobuz is setting a new standard for streaming/downloading, if I were Tidal or Spotify or any of the on-line high res shops I would be nervous.
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Spotify is not nervous. Its still better then everything else, it just does not have HiRes or Roon integration. I imagine they don't even take Roons calls. If Spotify had those things I would switch in a heartbeat.
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I received an email today from Qobuz offering 1 month free trial. I am considering it.
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Certainly lots of music available. What about sound quality ? Do they upsample 44.1 to 24/192 ? Is the Hi Rez music recorded in DSD or upsampled ? For me it is about quality of sound not unlimited music.
I have yet to hear any streamer sound better than a dedicated transport and DAC playing a CD or SACD [ recorded orig in DSD ]. Is it just me or do I have company ? I use a state of the art server, transport and DAC.
charles
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I have been using it for a few days with Roon. Well signed up but was tricky to get it going. They ask a user name and password but then I needed to sign in on Roon with my email not user name. It was frustrating. I'm surprised how much I enjoy their offerings. And the quality seems as good as the albums I have no my hard drive. Its great how it blends with Roon library but also confusing.
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Certainly lots of music available. What about sound quality ? Do they upsample 44.1 to 24/192 ? Is the Hi Rez music recorded in DSD or upsampled ? For me it is about quality of sound not unlimited music.
I have yet to hear any streamer sound better than a dedicated transport and DAC playing a CD or SACD [ recorded orig in DSD ]. Is it just me or do I have company ? I use a state of the art server, transport and DAC.
charles
[/quote
Kinda off topic
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Certainly lots of music available. What about sound quality ? Do they upsample 44.1 to 24/192 ? Is the Hi Rez music recorded in DSD or upsampled ? For me it is about quality of sound not unlimited music.
I have yet to hear any streamer sound better than a dedicated transport and DAC playing a CD or SACD [ recorded orig in DSD ]. Is it just me or do I have company ? I use a state of the art server, transport and DAC.
charles
I like to use streaming services to discover new music then possibly purchase if I love it. I look at this as a better option than spotify. I have never ran spotify through any thing other than my phone and bluetooth speaker at work.
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Certainly lots of music available. What about sound quality ? Do they upsample 44.1 to 24/192 ? Is the Hi Rez music recorded in DSD or upsampled ? For me it is about quality of sound not unlimited music.
I have yet to hear any streamer sound better than a dedicated transport and DAC playing a CD or SACD [ recorded orig in DSD ]. Is it just me or do I have company ? I use a state of the art server, transport and DAC.
charles
[/quote
Kinda off topic
Why is sound quality and format used off topic ?
charles
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Charles appears to be indicating that he feels that streaming music is doomed to failure in his system due to his extremely fine equipment and his discerning ear. So be it. He already knows, without a listen, that it can't meet his standards. So be it.
I'm happy as hell myself. Living room holds my OPPO Sonica DAC running directly into a Crown XLS-1500 driving my big horns. Second system in TV room comprised of OPPO UDP 205 directly driving JBL 705P from a 10 year old Imac. Amazing performance level considering cost of components and simplicity of set up. Both systems are stereo. Both systems are being fed by Tidal HiFi.
Now the question: Will I be able to access Qobuz with this gear?
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So I checked out Quboz in my big rig streaming hirez through my Klipsch Gate and in my desktop system straming through my Paradigm PW amp. Setup was a breeze, sign up for an account at quboz, open the DTS-Play Fi app on my tablet, select the "critical listening" mode and the select quboz music service. After entering my password quboz had some suggested selections on the home page. I checked out Norah Jones and Elvis Costello in 24/192 and whoaaa, it sounded brilliant. Next I searched for some redbook tracks and listened to Michael Franks new album, The Music in My Head. I went back and forth between quboz and Tidal and Quboz had the edge in redbook streams in my system. The bass extended a little lower with slightly better dynamics, percussion instruments had their own space in the soundstage and were lifted more distinctly in the mix and voices seemed to have a little more air and clarity.
I checked out The White Album 2018 mix in 24/192 and The Chicago II mix by Stewve Wilson in 24/182. Both sounded fantastic.
Having just setup my home using the DTS Play-Fi ecosystem every component is rez capable from the ground up. Couldn't have been more economical and easier to incorporate a hi rez, whole house, system.
The Klipsch Gate at $30 on Amazon sounds fantastic streaming hirez from Quboz. Just plug it into your current preamp to get started. Here is Quboz's review:
https://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/info/hi-fi/bancs-d-essai/klipsch-gate-a-streamer-with-great179353
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Charles appears to be indicating that he feels that streaming music is doomed to failure in his system due to his extremely fine equipment and his discerning ear. So be it. He already knows, without a listen, that it can't meet his standards. So be it.
I'm happy as hell myself. Living room holds my OPPO Sonica DAC running directly into a Crown XLS-1500 driving my big horns. Second system in TV room comprised of OPPO UDP 205 directly driving JBL 705P from a 10 year old Imac. Amazing performance level considering cost of components and simplicity of set up. Both systems are stereo. Both systems are being fed by Tidal HiFi.
Now the question: Will I be able to access Qobuz with this gear?
Short answer is yes, I would recommend the Paradigm PW Link using the digital out into your oppo sonica dac or your Oppo. You get access to Quboz plus every other streaming service and file in your network. More importantly you get the ARC room correction and it is a game changer IMO.
https://www.paradigm.com/en/wireless/pw-link
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Certainly lots of music available. What about sound quality ? Do they upsample 44.1 to 24/192 ? Is the Hi Rez music recorded in DSD or upsampled ? For me it is about quality of sound not unlimited music.
I have yet to hear any streamer sound better than a dedicated transport and DAC playing a CD or SACD [ recorded orig in DSD ]. Is it just me or do I have company ? I use a state of the art server, transport and DAC.
charles
IMO you might want to use Quboz to try new tracks and then they give you the option to purchase for download to your SOA server.
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Spotify is not nervous. Its still better then everything else, it just does not have HiRes or Roon integration. I imagine they don't even take Roons calls. If Spotify had those things I would switch in a heartbeat.
80% of the US doesn't even know what "hirez" is and are happy with MP3. They make buying decisions based on price and convenience.
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80% of the US doesn't even know what "hirez" is and are happy with MP3. They make buying decisions based on price and convenience.
Have been using Beta Qobuz since last November 2018 Courtesy Quboz/David Soloman . When it comes to classical music the Hi-Rez sounds wonderful , you can get 24bit/192 Khz however it is pretty expensive $ 35.00 for studio version a month for sublime $ 299.00 a year between Qobuz & tidal I seem to find Tidal a bit mellow & Meater , Qobuz seems to sound analytical even with high end DAC's.
I think when I signed up I was been charged in British Currency ! via apple store ! I need to send them an email it seems now for US residents it is $ 24.99 for studio ! :popcorn:
Asghar
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Interesting...I'm late to the party but it's nice to see that Qobuz has made it to shore. For a good decade, my small town could only support low bandwidth service, ie 10 MBPS download speeds and 1 MBPS upload! Not anymore! Cable and fiberoptic is here and for the past 2 weeks, my max download speed is 94 MBPS. Totally different world and now I can look into such things as Tidal, Qobuz, etc...
Thanks for the info fellas!
Best,
Anand.
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Signed up yesterday. I'm streaming via mconnect/microRendu and so far it sounds wonderful.
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80% of the US doesn't even know what "hirez" is and are happy with MP3. They make buying decisions based on price and convenience.
Sure but Spotify as a product is better then Tidal and Qobuz. I have Spotify for "on the go" because of this. I now have Qobuz for Roon integration. Spotify is vastly better for discovering new music and their auto personalized playlists are fantastic.
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For those who made the switch and are using Roon, what happens to your playlists within Roon?
Do any formally Tidal tracks that Qobuz might not offer show as “unavailable”?
Thanks,
JD
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For folks who are concerned about streaming, look into Audirvana as the front end for Qobuz. My understanding is that Audirvana downloads the track to the system running Audirvana before it starts streaming, that way you get the benefit of streaming locally :thumb:
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Sure but Spotify as a product is better then Tidal and Qobuz. I have Spotify for "on the go" because of this. I now have Qobuz for Roon integration. Spotify is vastly better for discovering new music and their auto personalized playlists are fantastic.
my experience too... they recently threw a new discovery playlist at me and I LOVED 20 of the 25 songs that I had never heard.
and I'm loving the Roon integration or Qobuz.
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Day 2 of Quboz- I found Quboz is a little too bright in my system and listening fatigue set in. I tried redbook and hirez tracks, just too much micro detail and it gets fatiguing. That never happened to me with Tidal or even Spotify. It looks like I am going back to Tidal. After I identified that brightness I just hear it on every track. At first it was a WOW but after a while it just starts to sound kind of gritty to my ears.
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I'm having issues with Chromcast audio. Signal keeps dropping and returning (1-2 x per minute). Return to Pandora and everything is fine. Using and Android device with the mobile app. I like the interface better than Tidal. The Rap-centric format for Tidal was immediately a turnoff for me. If they can figure out the glitches quickly i will likely stay and cancel Tidal. I do not have MQA.
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Started the free trial and am comparing it to Tidal through Roon. I've been listening to the same tracks with both services and there are some differences. So far not better or worse, just different. More listening to come, but I will probably stick with Tidal since I can get it for a discount.
FYI Tidal has discounts for students, active duty military and veterans.
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Tidal's suffocating devotion to rap has created an environment of inconvenience and distraction for those of us who fail to share their fealty. It reminds me of how ToysRUs used to force you to spiral through all of their specials and closeout stuff just to get in the store. I do not want to wade through what they hope to force on me just so I can reach the rap free browsing. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but Tidal annoys me from the get go. Rap needs to be just another section I have to locate ___ not a series of obstacles twixt me and my reason for subscribing.
Qobuz has my attention for this reason alone.
JayZ, are you listening? Do you care?
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I have never looked, is rap the only thing on Tidal? I hate rap.
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No problem here with rap getting in the way (I hate rap too). Maybe check your Genre settings at Tidal?
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I have never looked, is rap the only thing on Tidal? I hate rap.
There is a lot of non rap on Tidal,, but since its owner and a few major part owners are rap thats about all that they show on the featured section most of the time. .
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I’ve always used the search bar on Tidal to find a particular artist and when I do I like the section at the bottom that shows similar artists and who influenced them and those that came after them. I think it’s a cool feature that I find myself using a lot. Anybody know if Qobuz has something similar?
I usually go right to my albums or playlists so I had to find out what you guys are talking about with the rap stuff. I guess it is there, never really noticed until it was mentioned.
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Jay-Z might be ahead of the game. Most of the youth loves rap, including my grandkids, so he is probably looking to the future which is very smart on his part. Most of us older folks will be dead and gone in a few more years.
There was a 15 year old visiting them the other day and he has never heard of the Beatles.
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I’ve always used the search bar on Tidal to find a particular artist and when I do I like the section at the bottom that shows similar artists and who influenced them and those that came after them. I think it’s a cool feature that I find myself using a lot. Anybody know if Qobuz has something similar?
I usually go right to my albums or playlists so I had to find out what you guys are talking about with the rap stuff. I guess it is there, never really noticed until it was mentioned.
Yes Qobuz has this (search) as well. And once you pull up your artist, it will note on the right similar artist And at the main page you can search by genres. I say try it, its free for 30 days.
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Day 2 of Quboz- I found Quboz is a little too bright in my system and listening fatigue set in. I tried redbook and hirez tracks, just too much micro detail and it gets fatiguing. That never happened to me with Tidal or even Spotify. It looks like I am going back to Tidal. After I identified that brightness I just hear it on every track. At first it was a WOW but after a while it just starts to sound kind of gritty to my ears.
Maybe Quboz needs more burn in? :lol:
I signed up for the first month free trial and agree with you for the most part. Out of 20-25 albums I compared with using Roon I maybe preferred Quboz’s extra detail on about 3. Tidal just seemed to be more musically engaging in my system where Quboz was a tad sterile. There were about 5 other albums I wanted to try but Quboz did not have them.
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There was a 15 year old visiting them the other day and he has never heard of the Beatles.
Oh man. I hope you fixed that for him.
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Maybe Quboz needs more burn in? :lol:
I signed up for the first month free trial and agree with you for the most part. Out of 20-25 albums I compared with using Roon I maybe preferred Quboz’s extra detail on about 3. Tidal just seemed to be more musically engaging in my system where Quboz was a tad sterile. There were about 5 other albums I wanted to try but Quboz did not have them.
Wonder if that's due to European versus American tastes?
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Oh man. I hope you fixed that for him.
Were you guys up to speed on bands that broke up 35 years before you were born at 15?
Also, the ubiquitous use of “rap” here is telling of crowd.
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Were you guys up to speed on bands that broke up 35 years before you were born at 15?
Also, the ubiquitous use of “rap” here is telling of crowd.
Not sure about the "rap" clue you claim to have divined but I am one who believes that every musical genre has worth. In the case of rap, however, I cannot locate said worth. Is that due to my age? My son rather pithily observed the other day that the type of music you prefer is dictated more than anything else by when you turned 20. Could be true.
My mention of rap on Tidal refers only to the clutter they make of their offerings by dominating the home page with things I strive to avoid. I know why they do it. I'm just expressing my displeasure with having to be reminded of its existence. Niggahs & Hoes is not a theme I care to honor, and cannot enjoy. Supposedly the key to understanding Rap's place in music is to realize that the initial C is silent and normally not printed.
I have to agree with your point about the teenager's unawareness of the Beatles. I was born in 1947 and cannot name from memory any band from 1932. Not one.
Was expecting a lot of buzz about Qobuz now that any of us can sign up. Doesn't seem like many have if the forum comments are an accurate reflection. Comparisons to Tidal have been tepid about stating preferences.
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Were you guys up to speed on bands that broke up 35 years before you were born at 15?
Also, the ubiquitous use of “rap” here is telling of crowd.
I wouldn't expect you to know the music or even like it, but bands like that are common knowledge. It's like not knowing who Elvis is.
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Qobuz distinguishes between CD-Quality and Hi-Res. They don't say a word about DSD. Can I assume my DAC which handles Tidal's FLAC files (and cannot process DSD) can handle what they are calling Hi-Res?
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Not sure about the "rap" clue you claim to have divined but I am one who believes that every musical genre has worth. In the case of rap, however, I cannot locate said worth. Is that due to my age? My son rather pithily observed the other day that the type of music you prefer is dictated more than anything else by when you turned 20. Could be true.
My mention of rap on Tidal refers only to the clutter they make of their offerings by dominating the home page with things I strive to avoid. I know why they do it. I'm just expressing my displeasure with having to be reminded of its existence. Niggahs & Hoes is not a theme I care to honor, and cannot enjoy. Supposedly the key to understanding Rap's place in music is to realize that the initial C is silent and normally not printed.
I have to agree with your point about the teenager's unawareness of the Beatles. I was born in 1947 and cannot name from memory any band from 1932. Not one.
Was expecting a lot of buzz about Qobuz now that any of us can sign up. Doesn't seem like many have if the forum comments are an accurate reflection. Comparisons to Tidal have been tepid about stating preferences.
Generally speaking, rap is a word “olds” use. The music genre is called
Hiphop.
I feel tidal does not adjust to me as well as Spotify. I have switched to Qobuz and have no regrets. 0.0% chance I will be comparing sound quality.
I agree that
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So I checked out Quboz in my big rig streaming hirez through my Klipsch Gate and in my desktop system straming through my Paradigm PW amp. Setup was a breeze, sign up for an account at quboz, open the DTS-Play Fi app on my tablet, select the "critical listening" mode and the select quboz music service. After entering my password quboz had some suggested selections on the home page. I checked out Norah Jones and Elvis Costello in 24/192 and whoaaa, it sounded brilliant. Next I searched for some redbook tracks and listened to Michael Franks new album, The Music in My Head. I went back and forth between quboz and Tidal and Quboz had the edge in redbook streams in my system. The bass extended a little lower with slightly better dynamics, percussion instruments had their own space in the soundstage and were lifted more distinctly in the mix and voices seemed to have a little more air and clarity.
I checked out The White Album 2018 mix in 24/192 and The Chicago II mix by Stewve Wilson in 24/182. Both sounded fantastic.
Having just setup my home using the DTS Play-Fi ecosystem every component is rez capable from the ground up. Couldn't have been more economical and easier to incorporate a hi rez, whole house, system.
The Klipsch Gate at $30 on Amazon sounds fantastic streaming hirez from Quboz. Just plug it into your current preamp to get started. Here is Quboz's review:
https://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/info/hi-fi/bancs-d-essai/klipsch-gate-a-streamer-with-great179353
Too bad it does not have even a Toslink output.....
Steve N.
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Catering to the youth has made me a lot of money over the years. What teenager is not carrying a cell phone listening to music these days?
Some parents cannot say no to their kids.
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Too bad it does not have even a Toslink output.....
Steve N.
Hi Steve, I had the same thoughts when I ordered it and almost ordered one of the other streamers in the Play-Fi ecosystem. I considered the Polk Omni P1 at around $100, The DefTech W Adapt for around $300, the Paradigm PW Link (with ARC) for around $200 and even the Mcintosh MB50 for around $2K. They all connect to your network via the Play-Fi app like the Gate. Most of them sell at substantial discounts to MSRP. I wasn't sure if I would like the Play-Fi app so ordered two Gates to be able to stream music from my HT to my kitchen. I was shocked at how good the SQ was. It sounds very analog like to my ears. The tone is more lifelike and I think it is well worth an audition. The review of the Gate posted by Quboz talks a little about the construction of the device if you are curious.
https://play-fi.com/products/
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The wife and myself did some more comparisons. Qobuz does sound a bit better than Tidal, it's clearer and cleaner with more detail. Just have to determine if it's worth it to switch.
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I'm switching from Tidal, I think. There is certainly no sound degradation vs. Tidal. The selling point for me is the interface or, more specifically, the search function. I hate Tidal's search function. It just takes forever for it to settle down searching. Until it does you pretty much have to wait. I use the search function all the time. Qobuz is essentially instantaneous.
And the best part is that you can search by label, even if you don't know the label. This is because the info presented on any album contains the label it's on (which you can click on, bringing up everything on that label). And if you do know the label you can search by that as well. I find this just a fantastic feature. I used to work at Rose Records on State Street in Chicago and the store organized everything by label, coordinated with the Schwann catalog.
All I need to pull the trigger is to do a little browsing to make sure the content is as wide as Tidal's is.
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Already I've noticed more bands that I like with high-res content when compared to Tidal, so I feel it's worth the additional $5 a month.
Hi-rez plays nicely on the raspberry pi as well, so hopefully these guys stick around for a long while.
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Just signed up for Qobuz. I am gonna have a hard time even pronouncing it properly! :o
I’ve had this issue when streaming Tidal via Roon where there are occasional ticks in the music. I switch over to the same album on Qobuz and no ticks at all. Same bitrate and specs for the source.
Anyone else have similar issues? (Using microRendu into an Exogal Comet DAC.)
If this is a solve, I might switch over after being on Tidal for several years already.
-dave
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Qobuz distinguishes between CD-Quality and Hi-Res. They don't say a word about DSD. Can I assume my DAC which handles Tidal's FLAC files (and cannot process DSD) can handle what they are calling Hi-Res?
Yes, they send PCM only, not DSD.
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:scratch:
Just curious, blind folded, can anyone tell the difference between the two services?
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I have both Tidal and Qobuz. I like the sound of Qobuz better but I just cannot get it to play nice with my Google Chromecast Audio. Oh well, Tidal's cheaper anyway and still good sounding.
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Could you describe the issues with Qobuz and your CA?
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Could you describe the issues with Qobuz and your CA?
Sure. I downloaded the Qobuz app to my iPhone and it works OK if I pick a track or album from the home screen. But if I try to play a track from my saved playlist, it freezes and never plays anything. And I have to restart the app to unfreeze it. Sometimes I have to restart the whole phone to unfreeze it. Which sucks because it sounds great when I can get it to work. But it's useless to me if I can't play songs from my saved playlist.
Oh, one other thing that happens - if I leave an album playing and my phone goes to lock screen, all the Qobuz controls freeze up when I unlock it. Restarting the app doesn't fix it. Only restarting my phone fixes it.
AND Qobuz is not gapless playback. At the end of a track there's a pause, then an annoying pop/crack sound, then the next track plays. Tidal is not gapless either but the transition sound is a lot less annoying.
OK, that about sums it up!
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I am sticking with TIDAL for the time being. After a month comparing TIDAL with Qobuz, the latter has some quality control issues and I find the music library lacking many of my favorite albums. I also find TIDAL has more robust playlist options, when I'm exploring new music.
Playing albums on Qobuz, the streaming gets "hung up" transitioning between songs regularly. I've got an Intel Core I5 based PC w/ 8G of RAM memory (dedicated music PC running no other apps) and plenty of WiFi bandwidth and signal strength, so I have to place the issue with Qobuz.
In the SQ front, both services sound great. I'll give a slight edge to Qobuz's Hi-Rez studio option. However, my DAC upsamples everything to DSD, so the SQ sifference is pretty negligible in my highly resolving system.
YRMV.
NB
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Sure. I downloaded the Qobuz app to my iPhone and it works OK if I pick a track or album from the home screen. But if I try to play a track from my saved playlist, it freezes and never plays anything. And I have to restart the app to unfreeze it. Sometimes I have to restart the whole phone to unfreeze it. Which sucks because it sounds great when I can get it to work. But it's useless to me if I can't play songs from my saved playlist.
Oh, one other thing that happens - if I leave an album playing and my phone goes to lock screen, all the Qobuz controls freeze up when I unlock it. Restarting the app doesn't fix it. Only restarting my phone fixes it.
AND Qobuz is not gapless playback. At the end of a track there's a pause, then an annoying pop/crack sound, then the next track plays. Tidal is not gapless either but the transition sound is a lot less annoying.
OK, that about sums it up!
I got Qobuz fixed. The problem was with the playlist itself, not Qobuz. So I deleted it, and started from scratch. I use my phone for all streaming, it works well now. And I'm pretty happy that Qobuz has a far more robust classical library (and a lot more classical hirez albums). So that's cool. And it does sound slightly better than Tidal. So I have cancelled Tidal and I'm pretty happy with Qobuz for the type of music I listen to. 90% classical, 5% Jazz, 5% Rock/Pop.
Now, the upstairs system is where I do all my streaming. When it's my week to have my daughter, we will stream "her" music on the upstairs system. For that I have premium Spotify which has ALL the modern music a 12 year old girl with good taste could ever want :thumb:
Anyway, right now it's just me so I've got Ornette Coleman 'The Shape of Jazz to Come" from the hirez Atlantic Years box set and it sounds spectacular. So I'm really happy with the service. Maybe spin up some Mahler next....
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I agree - Qobuz has far more hirez classical albums, and many of them helpfully include a pdf of the album's notes about the music and performers. But I am surprised that Tidal seems to have more renaissance and medieval music, including many of the newer albums listed on Robert Aubrey Davis' Millennium of Music programs.