VMPS Original (non-Megawoofer)

BC Dave · « **on:** 7 Apr 2006, 09:59 pm »

Hello,

I posted a while back after buying what I thought was a VMPS smaller sub out of my local buy and sell for $200 CDN. A few days later the seller found the owner's manual and told me to pick it up. It turns out he sold me the VMPS Original. It has the 12-inch foam surround woofer (not the Megawoofer). I was very pleased to have the extra bass extension to 19 hertz. However, I was corresponding with Tom Nousaine and he tells me that the VMPS subs don't descend as low as advertised. Quote: "Gosh I haven't heard about VMPS for quite awhile. As my memory about VMPS goes the most distinguishing characteristic about the "subwoofers" was that they really weren't subwoofers just pretty good woofers. IOW they didn't go particularly low but were more like the bass in sound reinforcement systems. But that's just a memory and I haven't seen or touched one in at least a decade. I'm glad you like yours."
I tried the Pierre Verany (SP?) test disc and there doesn't seem to be any response from my VMPS below 25 hertz. This sub is in a very large (13 by 24 foot) family room that opens up into the rest of the house. I love the sound of it and it seems amply powerful and tight. But will a 1991 VMPS Original with stock drivers actually hit 20 hertz at a useable volume? Thanks.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 10:17 pm »

Mr Nousaine notwithstanding, the OSW measured -3dB at 19Hz nearfield (mic at the slot).

25Hz is good in-room response and covers just about all musical material.
As you noted, the woofer sounds wonderful and can be tuned for associated equipment and room placement. All this for $450!

Horizons · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 10:31 pm »

I think Tom Nousaine is just slightly more objective than Brian.

I have that exact sub (not really a sub, but a large bass driver) and the foam surround rotted away. Replaced that cheapo driver with a Peerless XLS 830500 (a quality driver) and that sub is now a true subwoofer.

Sub done right:
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/thor-intro.htm

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 10:45 pm »

Our current 12" active driver, which we handbuild in the USA, is a better performer than the Peerless you mention.

Specs include 12" woven carbon fiber cone with natural rubber surround, 2" four-layer VC, 13mm Xmax, 80oz stacked magnet, and phase plug.

You wouldn't know that, of course, since you are unfamiliar with it, as is Mr. Nousaine.

You have been here before, Horizons, spreading hate and disinformation.
I would kindly ask you to stop.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 10:47 pm »

BTW it is against AC rules to use a Manufacturer's forum to shill for another manufacturer's product.

BC Dave · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 10:55 pm »

I want to buy the Megawoofer as soon as I sell my Paradigm PS-1000 (on consignment), mainly for the reason that I don't like foam woofer surrounds. I guess I should replace the 15-inch passive radiator too, if it has a foam surround (not sure). So, to make sure I have this right, with a Megawoofer and new PR, would there be a readily-audible difference in low frequency depth and punch over what I have now?

Thanks.
Dave

Horizons · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 10:58 pm »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

You have been here before, Horizons, spreading hate and disinformation.
I would kindly ask you to stop.

That is a blantant LIE. I have never spread hate and lies. Just exposing VMPS speakers (AS A PRIOR OWNER AND CUSTOMER) as overpriced with cheap internal parts. Upgrade your parts and a lot of audiophiles will have more respect for your product.

YOU on the other hand have constantly bashed and libeled your competition. Examples - Magnepan and BG. These companies have quality and reputation that you can only dream about yet you LIE about them constantly.

What goes around comes around Brian.

Horizons · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 11:00 pm »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

BTW it is against AC rules to use a Manufacturer's forum to shill for another manufacturer's product.

I am not shilling for Peerless drivers, merely suggesting an improvement to the cheap, foam surround drivers that you use.

warnerwh · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 11:02 pm »

Interesting this should be brought up. Two days ago I measured my New Original with the 12" megawoofer and it was 3db high at 20hz. It's in a corner. The response at 33 hz is 10db up where a room mode is. Anybody who could think this isn't a subwoofer hasn't used one.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 11:03 pm »

Horizons
Newflash: foam rots, even non-VMPS foam. Isn't Tom Nousaine the guy who swore all amps sound the same? Stereophile magazine, at a time when VMPS did not advertise there, liked the VMPS sub when they reviewed it, & had no problem calling it a subwoofer. The owner of Landmark greeting cards had Infinity IRS III's in his front soundroom. When VMPS SuperTower IIa/R's were installed in the living room he didn't mention the bass cutoff was too high (subjectively seemed to equal the IRS). Tony Cordesman & Bert White stated emphatically & repeatedly that VMPS had the best bass for the dollar extant (Cordesman's "Honor Roll"). The VMPS sub & STIIa/R have similar woofers & design. Marty DeWulf never mentioned lack of low bass either, but maybe you know more about audio than him. Ditto Mike Kuller, etc, etc, etc, etc. I guess they're all wrong & you know more than all the professionals who do this full time for a living. Glad you like your new driver better. Now if you just kick your neurotic, predictable, habitual VMPS bashing.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 11:10 pm »

Quote from: Horizons

Quote from: Brian Cheney

You have been here before, Horizons, spreading hate and disinformation.
I would kindly ask you to stop.

That is a blantant LIE. I have never spread hate and lies. Just exposing VMPS speakers (AS A PRIOR OWNER AND CUSTOMER) as overpriced with cheap internal parts. Upgrade your parts and a lot of audiophiles will have more respect for your product.

YOU on the other hand have constantly bashed and libeled your competition. Examples - Magnepan and BG. These companies have ...

Me thinks you don't know shite about what you write. Of the 52" ferrite planar ribbons made by BG, I'd estimate a 50% failure rate. I doubt, as spectacular as that failure rate was, even BG would deny it. Ask them. Go to AA & ask in the planar forum. You seem dumb as nails to me. If you hate VMPS so much, just stay away. You are headed for extinction at AC anyway, & I'll take bets on it.

warnerwh · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 11:11 pm »

I know when Stereophile reviews the Tower II/R with the 12" driver the bass has been raved about throughout the review. This was in 89 before the carbon fiber megawoofers I think. Go price a similar Carbon Fiber woofer in Parts Express and tell me they're cheap!

Just because a driver uses foam for a surround does not make it cheap. Foam is an excellent material for a surround and modern foam surrounds are now available that last much longer than the ones of the 80's. I'd never judge a driver by a foam surround is being inferior in anyway because it's such a good material for a surround.

Horizons · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 11:12 pm »

Quote from: RibbonSpeakers.net

Horizons
Newflash: foam rots

Thanks for that insight. Since foam rots, I guess that's why Brian uses foam surround drivers.

Glad you are a VMPS fan boy. Are you one of Brian's dealers?

James Romeyn · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 11:16 pm »

Foam & that funky worthless shite called "paper" is still used in some of the most expensive & exotic & esteemed speakers. It's not expected to last forever, especially in a humid climate. I could take the most high quality foam on earth & rot in out in one day in the right environment. But still, in most circumstances foam will last longer than Horizon's log-in at AC, IMO. Sometimes watching a train wreck is fun, as long as no innocents are hurt.

john1970 · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 11:19 pm »

To all,

I have recently purchased a pair of RM40s. Although the speaker had some initial QC issues the internal parts are NOT cheap.

The crossovers use Auricap capacitors and Super Q" Erse inductors which are not "cheap" by any standard. I know several brands of speakers that sell for 2-3x the price that use less expensive parts. Period.

The standard cabinet is 1.5" MDF for the front baffle and atleast 1.25" everywhere else. The upgraded MLS cabients are even better yet!

The 10" woofer used by VMPS is much better than the woofer used in my previous subwoofers WHICH USED TO RETAIL FOR ~$1400 EACH.

In summary VMPS USES QUALITY PARTS!

Thank you to VMPS for designing an affordable product using high quality parts!

John

James Romeyn · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 11:21 pm »

Horizons
Your reading skills equal the rest of your intellect. I never said I'm a fan of anything. I only repeated what other's say, which contradicts your opinions. It was just for reference in case someone thought you might know more than about 20 pro reveiwers. Maybe you do. I don't know. I just don't know why anyone should believe you instead of them. Maybe you could shed light on it. I'm not a dealer.

Horizons · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 11:23 pm »

Quote from: RibbonSpeakers.net

Foam & that funky worthless shite called "paper" is still used in some of the most expensive & exotic & esteemed speakers. It's not expected to last forever, especially in a humid climate. I could take the most high quality foam on earth & rot in out in one day in the right environment. But still, in most circumstances foam will last longer than Horizon's log-in at AC, IMO. Sometimes watching a train wreck is fun, as long as no innocents are hurt.

Thanks for the ad hominem attacks. I am pointing out quality issues with A PRODUCT and you respond with personal attacks. I think that proves who should be banned on AC.

I guess it is OK with you and all your fellow VMPS dealers that Brian libels and slanders his competitors though, THAT'S JUST FINE.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 11:28 pm »

We have been importing cone stock for our woofers for at least 7 years now. These are woven carbon fiber cones with natural rubber surrounds. The cones alone cost more (up to $26 apiece plus shipping and import duty) than many manufacturer's entire drivers of equivalent size. We are the only manufacturer of WCF woofers in the USA, likely for this reason.

All current active drivers in our speakers have the natural rubber surrounds. The only foam we now use is a doublethick kind in our passive radiators. No surround of this type has ever rotted out, but again, it's only been about 7 years. The American manufacturer of our PR cones, RDM of Hamburg Arkansas, estimates surround life at 20 years, give or take a few months.