AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 18 May 2019, 07:39 pm
-
So I haven't had time to build my new dedicated listening room here at the shop. So I took over a room in our house that we haven't remodeled yet and turned it into a listening room. It is a pretty good sized room with tall ceilings, and I loaded it up with some of the room treatment that I typically take to a show.
I have been listening to the new Studio Monitors since last night and I am stunned by what they can do.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/studio%20monitor%20in%20new%20room.jpg)
This open backed tweeter idea should have been implemented a long time ago. These sound a lot like the larger NX-Otica and NX-Treme models. They have a way of layering the sound stage and imaging like no other mini-monitor. The size of the sound field is incredible. These make every other mini-monitor sound like a music playing from a box. I have never heard sound this good from a small two way ever!
And I blended them seamlessly with a stack of triple open baffle servo subs on each side. So these things are playing full range top to bottom like a big speaker and with big speaker sound. I'm getting imaging almost floor to ceiling on some recordings and from the front wall to well behind me.
Now I just got to figure out a way for everyone in the audio industry to hear this system.
I have a pair of these here for audition and another pair in Indiana if someone would like to borrow a pair for listening.
-
:D hiding my cheque book now,,,,,, :D
-
Where in Indiana. I am in Indianapolis area and would love to hear them.
-
Where in Indiana. I am in Indianapolis area and would love to hear them.
Okay, call me on Monday and I'll set it up.
-
Hi Danny
I'm close to Columbus, Ohio. Whereabouts in Indiana please?
-
Okay, call me on Monday and I'll set it up.
Will do.
-
The guy with the demo pair is in Valparaiso, Indiana. So he is actually not too far from Chicago.
-
Does he also have the OB subs in his set-up?
-
Does he also have the OB subs in his set-up?
The customer currently with them has no subs.
-
Road Show?? :D
-
Road Show?? :D
Who's next?
-
Are you shipping too? I am in NJ. Thanks
-
Are you shipping too? I am in NJ. Thanks
I could but want to cover the area that they are in first.
And it's a bonus when they are not shipped but handed off.
-
I’m the one with them in Valparaiso. I’d be willing to drive a couple hours to hand them off. Please let myself or Danny know. Thanks! Scott
-
Also, I would love to hear the impressions from the road show group! Sarora 9, I am in CT. Not sure if they will ever make it to east coast...
-
Would love to try them down in NC if they make it this way...
-
I am in NJ/NYC area.
Would love to try these too.
-
I'm in central MA and would like to audition them when they make it to the Northeast.
-
Hey Danny, is that a Dodd preamp with Mivera amp you're using with these monitors?
-
I know a guy who would make a video about those... just sayin!
-
I know a guy who would make a video about those... just sayin!
I wonder who that is :green:
-
Will you be making an Active version?
-
Will you be making an Active version?
If I can find the right amplification.
-
If I can find the right amplification.
Your thoughts & impressions on the Mivera Takachi Icepower 1200AS2 amp I see in the pictures?
gab
-
Your thoughts & impressions on the Mivera Takachi Icepower 1200AS2 amp I see in the pictures?
gab
The overall sound was very good. It was fairly close to my little chip amps. I had two issues with it though.
And this may not be the Mivera version. This one was built from the same Icepower amp module though.
Issue one was this version had only single ended inputs and that may have been hitting the input sensitivity. So the amp was hard to drive. My Dodd pre-amp has unity gain. So I really didn't have the power to drive it.
Secondly, it has a slight hum. This may be because of the conversion on the board from balanced to single ended. I don't know. But it did have a clear hum that was way too load for me.
The Icepower module showed a lot of potential though.
-
That is not a Mivera version.
Must be something in the wiring that is causing the hum, possibly the conversion to Se as you say or maybe even a wire routing issue .. not sure but I can tell you, I've heard a number of these and they are quiet. I have one of Mike's (Mivera) 1200's driving the Super super 7's and it is dead quiet, even at full volume with no music playing.
And actually, right now I have some SE inpouts in it (normally run a direct patch cable from DAC to amp) and even withthe SE inputs ( (sheild to ground), it is dead quiet.
I seem to recall someone else had a bit of a hum with one of these and it turned out to be the input wires.... make sure they've got twist to them.
And yeah, they don't have a ton of gain in them, IIRC they need like 5.5v or something to be driven to full power. Going balanced would get you up to 4V, maybe more if your DAC possibly has some type of output control/jumpers.... maybe talk to Eric ?
My Mivera Purestream puts out 6v when running in balanced with resistor jumpers removed.
If you can get rid of the hum and get some more gain, you'll be impressed with how this amp grabs hold of the nx speakers and it sounds great too. Others may disagree but I felt upgrading tothe Neotech Silver/gold wiring made a substantial difference
jay
-
Here is a link to the Mivera site (which discusses the buzzing and contains a video showing the likely culprit of the buzz on the Icepower 1200AS2 module):
https://www.miveraaudio.com/forum/purepower-amplifier/1200as2-very-loud-buzzing
Be interesting to know if other AC members experienced this buzz in their setup.
gab
-
Here is a link to the Mivera site (which discusses the buzzing and contains a video showing the likely culprit of the buzz on the Icepower 1200AS2 module):
https://www.miveraaudio.com/forum/purepower-amplifier/1200as2-very-loud-buzzing
Be interesting to know if other AC members experienced this buzz in their setup.
gab
Oh, I thought danny was talking about a hum through the speakers.
In any event, I haven't heard any buzz either
jay
-
I have a Mivera Audio Icepower 1200AS2 amp and have no hum or buzz through the speakers or from the amp. Dead quiet.
-
How does one get into the amp making business if one doesn't understand how to deal with hum and buzz? It boggles the mind.
-
How does one get into the amp making business if one doesn't understand how to deal with hum and buzz? It boggles the mind.
Are you insinuating that B&O doesn't know how to make amplifiers ? Or, are you just trying to get another stab in at Mike ?
As I mentioned above, I've heard many of the amps Mike has assembled and all of them sounded great, dead silent whether wired up in SE or run fully balanced.
The one that Danny has is not a Mivera built unit, I have no idea how things were wired/routed etc. I know there were some guys getting some of the modules through "non-proper" chains, who knows what they've done.
I know a lot of folks who are more than happy with their Mivara amps.
jay
-
Right on Jay, I thought it was another cheap shot by Tyson and had to restrain myself from responding. I'm glad you did as you were more tactful than I would have been. Now back to the discussion of these great GR monitors.
-
Are you insinuating that B&O doesn't know how to make amplifiers ? Or, are you just trying to get another stab in at Mike ?
As I mentioned above, I've heard many of the amps Mike has assembled and all of them sounded great, dead silent whether wired up in SE or run fully balanced.
The one that Danny has is not a Mivera built unit, I have no idea how things were wired/routed etc. I know there were some guys getting some of the modules through "non-proper" chains, who knows what they've done.
I know a lot of folks who are more than happy with their Mivara amps.
jay
I think he was referring to whoever built this amp that I have. I stated right away that it was not a Mivera version.
And the owner of it says he does not get the hum at his place.
-
I read the thread that was posted and Mike's response to the people having hum problems were basically "eh, you bought those units second hand" and "well, the electrical grid can do weird things to amps". I'm surprised he didn't have more specific actions to try to get the problem solved.
It'd be like Danny telling someone "well, the speaker was working when it left my shop, it must be your amp". I mean, that might be true but it would be a surprise if a manufacturer washed their hands of the situation like that when there's a problem. A better response would be "well, here are the top 3 things that can cause that issue and here's how to test that out".
Personally I've had to deal with hum, both at the speaker and in the amp (tubed equipment, mostly), and I know how annoying it can be. At least the makers of the stuff I have/had were helpful in giving specific advice that allowed me to track down the problem.
Either Mike knows some good ways to troubleshoot these problems and he's just now willing to share, or he doesn't know how to solve it at all and thus can't offer advice or solutions even if he wanted to.
Anyway, I've already said more than I intended to and I don't see this conversation resolving in a non-combative manner, so I'll bow out. Apologies for the thread derailment, Danny.
-
Well said Tyson, you should have said it like that the first time.
-
There is no reason why an IceEdge amp module should have hum through the speakers. This is certainly a set up issue....or the way the module was grounded (or not).
However, the IceEdge modules do make some hum themselves. The power transformers can either be almost dead quiet or at their loudest, hearing them two feet away (most all modules I have tested are not in the (hear it from two feet away category). I do have one stereo module here like that. Do you listen to music when your amp is two feet from you? Not many do. So, the transformer noise is a non issue for anyone unless you just "have" to have your amp silent within two feet and you get one of the "buzzers" (the hum is more like a buzz). It would be nice if IcePower could get all their transformers dead silent.....but this issue does not affect in any way the ability to enjoy its sound.
-
Sign me up for the tour too. I am outside Kansas City and willing to drive to pickup or return the speakers. Would love to hear Danny's new creation. I really just need to budget for the Super 7s but these would be great to hear.
-
Sign me up for the tour too. I am outside Kansas City and willing to drive to pickup or return the speakers. Would love to hear Danny's new creation. I really just need to budget for the Super 7s but these would be great to hear.
I don’t have one of these speakers but I do have other of Danny’s speakers and am about 4 hours from you. You’re welcome to come over and listen.
Mike
-
Cool - I'll PM you!
-
Danny,
Are the new Studio Monitors sold as fully assembled or are they in kit form?
-
Danny,
Are the new Studio Monitors sold as fully assembled or are they in kit form?
They are sold as a kit, but they come with a pre-cut front baffle.
-
Danny,
Thank you.
I've got a pair of kit speakers (Overnight Sensations) sitting on my bench (gift for a friend's son) to assemble before I can play with another kit. I will keep these in mind for my next project.
Question: How much does the pair weigh in kit form - front baffle included?
Michael
-
Danny,
Thank you.
I've got a pair of kit speakers (Overnight Sensations) sitting on my bench (gift for a friend's son) to assemble before I can play with another kit. I will keep these in mind for my next project.
Question: How much does the pair weigh in kit form - front baffle included?
Michael
I don't have a kit weight handy. Probably about 18 to 20 pounds.
A finished pair that shipping out weighed 37 pounds each with packing material and all.
-
I might have missed it but how much for the kit? And as for speaker placement I presume you would want the monitors to be 3ft from the back wall even if you chose to use sealed servo subs?
Thanks.
-
I might have missed it but how much for the kit? And as for speaker placement I presume you would want the monitors to be 3ft from the back wall even if you chose to use sealed servo subs?
Thanks.
$859 for the complete kit including the CNC cut front baffle and two sheets of No Rez.
For studio use these can be used over a console or nearly right up on the front wall.
For ideal playback these can be used well out into the room with an added servo sub for bottom end, and I think they will rival the best of the best cost no object monitors out there.
-
And another heads up to you guys in the area. A demo pair is in Columbus, OH right now.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=165019.0
If you are close by and would like to hear these then let me know.
-
Send them to Traverse City, I have servos, and a great vacation venue for family and friends wanting out of the heat.
-
And another heads up to you guys in the area. A demo pair is in Columbus, OH right now.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=165019.0
If you are close by and would like to hear these then let me know.
I may be in columbus in a few weeks would love to hear them.Send them to Traverse City, I have servos, and a great vacation venue for family and friends wanting out of the heat.
-
I may be in columbus in a few weeks would love to hear them.
I believe now they are in the suburbs of Cleveland.
-
Danny,
Any chance they can visit the Northeast? PA in particular. My N3TL's and Encores need some company.- JAZ
-
No one has asked so how about a compare with the straight X-Otica. Guess is similar except the X crosses better with the servos. How low can you pass these without lowering the sensitivity further ?
-
No one has asked so how about a compare with the straight X-Otica. Guess is similar except the X crosses better with the servos. How low can you pass these without lowering the sensitivity further ?
They have a very similar sound but with lower sensitivity. And while they really shine well out into the room, they don't have to be placed way out into the room.
And you can cross them to the subs anywhere from about 50Hz or so. It will depend on your room.
-
What is the sensitivity of the X Otica ? How are they made available ?
-
http://gr-research.com/nx-otica.aspx
-
Any feedback on these yet? I'm eyeing these as an upgrade from some ELT-525s that I've been using nearfield as desktop speakers for a while. I'm really interested in going to an all open baffle 2 channel system down the line but don't have the space for it now. This may be a great way to get partially there.
-
Any feedback on these yet? I'm eyeing these as an upgrade from some ELT-525s that I've been using nearfield as desktop speakers for a while. I'm really interested in going to an all open baffle 2 channel system down the line but don't have the space for it now. This may be a great way to get partially there.
I am pretty familiar with those ELT speakers. I designed crossovers for those as well.
They are not much of a comparison to the Studio Monitors.
-
I am pretty familiar with those ELT speakers. I designed crossovers for those as well.
They are not much of a comparison to the Studio Monitors.
I have no doubt about that! The closest thing I have had to a dedicated listening space for the last several years has been the office, which doubles as a playroom... :green: With a 4 year old at home I mostly have to pick up my headphones when I have a bit of time to listen. The little ELT’s are still fun though with the sonicaps and no-rez i got from you a while back, coupled with a couple DIY anarchy tapped horn subs. These new little monitors of yours look like a fun and rewarding upgrade that I will be able to enjoy immensely set up as near field monitors now, but then still enjoy later on when I have a better space to set them up in.
-
Are they any closer to Philly/NJ/NYC?
-
Any chance these studio monitors make it out west for the tour? Say Arizona? :thumb:
-
+1 Tomy2Tone
-
Any chance these studio monitors make it out west for the tour? Say Arizona? :thumb:
+1 :)
-
It sure would be nice if any of the folks who participated in this tour (or purchased a pair) posted their impressions (or PM me is okay!). Other than Tyson's post, I haven't seen a single comment or impression. :scratch:
-
Tyson's Studio Monitor Review
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=167137.0
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=202748)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=202750)
* Preamble
* Initial Impressions
* Listening Notes
All right, this is now officially the second time I'm being blown away in the same day. This speaker didn't have "some" OB magic, it had a LOT of OB magic. And I'm not sure what Danny did to the box but that thing was freaking INERT. There was almost no box coloration that I could detect. Yes, there was a slight coloration to the sound in the lower mids, a slight beautification that wasn't there in the ruthlessly honest Super Mini we'd heard previously.
Danny said that a lot of it was because the wave guide was so deep it allowed the tweeter to be crossed over much lower than previous speakers. Even lower than the Neo3 in my Super 7 speakers. Thus the tweeter and it's OB nature tended to dominate the sound of the speaker.
Also, the midrange driver - that's a special unit. I'll say more about it in my upcoming review of the NX-Ottica and NX-Treme.