Rank the Top GR Research Speakers

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Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #120 on: 19 Sep 2023, 01:43 pm »
It will have the MTM and a 12 inch servo instead of the Eminence woofer.  The same speakers that are in the Bravo.  The Beast is suppose to have two 12 inch woofers and an MTM made up of the same speakers in the xls encore.
The Bully will have the same drivers as the X-CS Bravo and the beast will have the same drivers as the X-CS Encore

What's contributing to the higher, 94dB sensitivity of the M130 / T26 MTM alignment in the Bully speaker compared to the same drivers / MTM alignment in the X-CS Bravo?  The X-CS Bravo shows as 90dB for sensitivity.  Is the wider baffle of the Bully the reason? 
The larger baffle is the main boost to output, as were not having to compensate for baffle-step losses like we do with the smaller baffles of narrower models.

jmimac351

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #121 on: 19 Sep 2023, 01:57 pm »
The larger baffle is the main boost to output, as were not having to compensate for baffle-step losses like we do with the smaller baffles of narrower models.

Very interesting. Any consideration to offering a fully passive version of the Bully using the Eminence 12" for someone who already owns subs?  A 94dB speaker that plays to mid-30s with midrange quality from paper cone woofers and soft dome tweeter... whether one is fond of 2-way speakers or not, that's very compelling.   

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #122 on: 19 Sep 2023, 02:46 pm »
Very interesting. Any consideration to offering a fully passive version of the Bully using the Eminence 12" for someone who already owns subs?  A 94dB speaker that plays to mid-30s with midrange quality from paper cone woofers and soft dome tweeter... whether one is fond of 2-way speakers or not, that's very compelling.   

Not currently, because they wont be able to reach a -3dB point in the low-mid 30s like the Brute.
The -3dB will likely be closer to 45-50Hz at that output level.

The reason we could get -3dB in the 30s with the Brute is because we're rolling off the 12" driver aggressively, so what was previously the -6dB point, is now the -3dB point.

BrandonB

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #123 on: 19 Sep 2023, 03:15 pm »
The Bully will have the same drivers as the X-CS Bravo and the beast will have the same drivers as the X-CS Encore
The larger baffle is the main boost to output, as were not having to compensate for baffle-step losses like we do with the smaller baffles of narrower models.

Hobbs it sounded like the Bully will be released very soon from what Danny said I think earlier in this thread.  Do you guys have an ETA.  Will it be released before the smaller NX-Otica?  Can you tell us the benefits pros/cons of each The Brute, Bully, Beast compared to the other. 

jmimac351

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #124 on: 19 Sep 2023, 04:20 pm »
Not currently, because they wont be able to reach a -3dB point in the low-mid 30s like the Brute.
The -3dB will likely be closer to 45-50Hz at that output level.

The reason we could get -3dB in the 30s with the Brute is because we're rolling off the 12" driver aggressively, so what was previously the -6dB point, is now the -3dB point.

Thank you for taking time to explain that.  I think I remember seeing Danny hold up a piece of paper in the video. 

That Bully speaker is really going to be something... it could be run with a "sweet" sounding, low power tube amp on the mids / highs with the slam / tuning from the servo sub on the bottom end. 

WOW.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #125 on: 19 Sep 2023, 08:21 pm »
Hobbs it sounded like the Bully will be released very soon from what Danny said I think earlier in this thread.  Do you guys have an ETA.  Will it be released before the smaller NX-Otica?  Can you tell us the benefits pros/cons of each The Brute, Bully, Beast compared to the other.
We're waiting on the test cabinet which should be ready here in a couple weeks
Once that's here, we should be able to wrap things up pretty quickly.
The NX-Otica /w 8" subs will still be a while out as the main hold up will be the amplifiers, even after we have the crossovers and test cabinets finished.
We just wrapped up the crossover design for the NX-Center (full OB) now that we have a stand we can use to test them, so we should be able to start offering that in the next few weeks once we get some pictures and the pricing all taken care of. (we also need to have some 10mH inductors made.)

The benefit of the Bully is the plug-&-play nature, once it's built there's no need to further tweaks, cables or adjustments beyond room placement/treatment.
with the Bully, you get an extra ~3dB efficiency from the extra M130 woofer, plus you now have a powered subwoofer taking over the bottom end down into the teens, plus it offers the PEQ and the amp can accept hi or low level inputs. It will also be much faster than the Eminence woofer.
The Beast will bump the woofer size to 6.5" and use 2 subwoofers down below, controlled by the HX-800. So it should be a little more efficient than the bully in the mids/tweeter, plus having the dual subs will mean that each one is doing half the work, improving detail, and settling time. They'll be able to shake a house without much effort. Essentially making them a party speaker.

jmimac351

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #126 on: 19 Sep 2023, 09:09 pm »
Maybe it's just me, but "party speaker" carries with it connotations which I suspect are unintended. 

The Beast sounds similar to the Legacy Audio Focus XD, which starts at a little over $15k.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #127 on: 19 Sep 2023, 09:23 pm »
Maybe it's just me, but "party speaker" carries with it connotations which I suspect are unintended. 

The Beast sounds similar to the Legacy Audio Focus XD, which starts at a little over $15k.

True, tho it definitely won't be built like a typical plastic "party"/DJ speaker. :wink:

wgraft5

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #128 on: 19 Sep 2023, 10:20 pm »
(we also need to have some 10mH inductors made.)
Are/could you have a few extra 10mH inductors made? I have an upcomming project that I will need two each.

Thanks,

Wayne in Oregon

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #129 on: 19 Sep 2023, 10:23 pm »
Are/could you have a few extra 10mH inductors made? I have an upcomming project that I will need two each.

Thanks,

Wayne in Oregon
That shouldn't be an issue as well likely order 25 in the initial order.

NoahH

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #130 on: 20 Sep 2023, 02:56 am »
Can you pinpoint why you like the Wilsons better?
Sorry for the slow reply - life got in the way.

Tyson nailed much of it. The Xtremes can do a concert hall experience very, very well. But that is consistency with the 'further away' comments he made. And the OB sub array can do massive impact incredibly well. But the intimacy and realism of the Wilson's is higher for most other music. I do think the detail is higher too, but not by a lot.

It is kind of amusing how things have played out for me. I loved Martin Logans for strings and vocals and could not find anything that was on-par until I finally went Wilson. I loved the Wilson's for almost everything, but they fell apart for grand orchestral content (mine are just Sabrina's so not that big, though augmented with dual REL S/812s). The Xtremes have now filled the exact gap I had with the Wilson's and are my concert hall. But the Wilson's are still the ones I end up listening to the most.

BrandonB

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #131 on: 21 Sep 2023, 01:54 am »
Sorry for the slow reply - life got in the way.

Tyson nailed much of it. The Xtremes can do a concert hall experience very, very well. But that is consistency with the 'further away' comments he made. And the OB sub array can do massive impact incredibly well. But the intimacy and realism of the Wilson's is higher for most other music. I do think the detail is higher too, but not by a lot.

It is kind of amusing how things have played out for me. I loved Martin Logans for strings and vocals and could not find anything that was on-par until I finally went Wilson. I loved the Wilson's for almost everything, but they fell apart for grand orchestral content (mine are just Sabrina's so not that big, though augmented with dual REL S/812s). The Xtremes have now filled the exact gap I had with the Wilson's and are my concert hall. But the Wilson's are still the ones I end up listening to the most.

Reading your response I had a few questions.  Are you using OB Subs with your NX-tremes.  Which speakers do you use if any for home theatre? 

Huskerbryce

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #132 on: 21 Sep 2023, 11:29 am »
Im thinking of either building the Xtremes or the NX oticas.  Does anyone know the upper SPL limit of these two speaker designs?  They would be integrated into my theater room where high dynamic movies and also live concert Blurays get played a ton.  My current speakers are the holtz/campbell statement 2 main speakers.  I know they are capable of 115db before the woofers hit xmax.  Just curious what the nx oticas or xtremes will do before coming apart.

NoahH

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #133 on: 22 Sep 2023, 02:30 am »
Reading your response I had a few questions.  Are you using OB Subs with your NX-tremes.  Which speakers do you use if any for home theatre?

I have a giant OB sub array with the Xtremes. 2 towers, each with 6 12" drivers. The bass is great. With the Wilson's, I have REL S/812s. Also stellar subs. The OB ones are a touch better I think overall, but the RELs are epic too.

I happen to use the Wilson's for home theater but that is not an active choice; the Xtremes live in a large open plan room and won't physically fit in my theater (ceilings are barely too low). Home theater is easy for any of these systems though - I would use any of these for theater without a concern.

NoahH

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #134 on: 22 Sep 2023, 02:32 am »
Im thinking of either building the Xtremes or the NX oticas.  Does anyone know the upper SPL limit of these two speaker designs?  They would be integrated into my theater room where high dynamic movies and also live concert Blurays get played a ton.  My current speakers are the holtz/campbell statement 2 main speakers.  I know they are capable of 115db before the woofers hit xmax.  Just curious what the nx oticas or xtremes will do before coming apart.
This is really dependent on frequency. If you are crossing over to subs at a decent level, you are likely to have really high spls you can do. If you don't, you will have much lower limits.

VinceT

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #135 on: 22 Sep 2023, 06:48 am »
Just curious if anyone has anything to mention about the LS9 or the LS6.

I was.listening to my LS9's this evening.

There are a few LS6s and LS9s in the used market currently. I have never heard any of the OB models to compare, but they are still being mentioned in high regard and I know they sound really really good. Most people say they still hold thier own with the TOL open baffle GR designs, and will be a lot easier on the pocket book. If you have the space there is not much that can compete with them for the money for what those large arrays can do.

BrandonB

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #136 on: 22 Sep 2023, 01:42 pm »
I was.listening to my LS9's this evening.

There are a few LS6s and LS9s in the used market currently. I have never heard any of the OB models to compare, but they are still being mentioned in high regard and I know they sound really really good. Most people say they still hold thier own with the TOL open baffle GR designs, and will be a lot easier on the pocket book. If you have the space there is not much that can compete with them for the money for what those large arrays can do.
Is your LS9's from a kit or AV123.  Have you upgraded your speakers or are they still stock?  A have heard that the upgrade is significant change in sound.  I almost purchased the LS9's but I was just afraid that my 14x21x10 room would be to small.  I bet those can put out some SPL with the right amp.

VinceT

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #137 on: 22 Sep 2023, 02:45 pm »
Is your LS9's from a kit or AV123.  Have you upgraded your speakers or are they still stock?  A have heard that the upgrade is significant change in sound.  I almost purchased the LS9's but I was just afraid that my 14x21x10 room would be to small.  I bet those can put out some SPL with the right amp.

Mine is stock av123 still. In your room would be too much speaker.

BrandonB

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #138 on: 22 Sep 2023, 03:26 pm »
Mine is stock av123 still. In your room would be too much speaker.

I showed my wife the speaker and it was the first time she said what the @#$%$# are you thinking.... 

VinceT

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #139 on: 22 Sep 2023, 03:31 pm »
I showed my wife the speaker and it was the first time she said what the @#$%$# are you thinking....

My wife objected at first, but as my system improves so does the SQ and now she has warmed up to it because it sounds so darn good. I'm lucky, my wife buys more records than I do. She would rather listen to vinyl over my dac any day.