AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 1 Sep 2016, 02:12 pm
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Oh my goodness, this thing is good.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-Tremeinroom2.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/NX-Tremeinroom1.jpg)
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Cool to see them all loaded up with drivers 8)
The pair here is still naked ..... hopeully to change soon !!
jay
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Looking forward to sonic impressions of these once you have it wrapped up.
Will these be 2 x M165NQ per side as pictured above or 4 x M165NQ as mentioned in the intro thread?
Just curious.
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Looking forward to sonic impressions of these once you have it wrapped up.
Will these be 2 x M165NQ per side as pictured above or 4 x M165NQ as mentioned in the intro thread?
Just curious.
I tried four, but two worked out much better.
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Thanks, Danny.
Any idea if you will be @ RMAF this year with either these or the Oticas?
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Thanks, Danny.
Any idea if you will be @ RMAF this year with either these or the Oticas?
I'm not planing on it.
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Are these open-baffled Danny?
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Are these open-baffled Danny?
I can answer that one Hugh, they are indeed OB
jay
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Thanks Jay. :)
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I tried four, but two worked out much better.
Why is that?
Mike
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Why is that?
Mike
Time arrival wasn't so good with four of them. And it caused an un-correctable phase shift.
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Would that hold true for an MMTMM version as well?
Mike
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Would that hold true for an MMTMM version as well?
Mike
Using four of them was a MMTMM center section.
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Using four of them was a MMTMM center section.
What I was wondering was if the issues you saw and heard were the result of all the drivers interacting and the crossover frequency used for the center section and, would the results be different if the only drivers playing were the five MMTMM (all NQ's) and they were allowed to play lower like you did with the MTM section.
Mike
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Danny, seeing as this thread is kind of about excess... :icon_twisted:
I know that at least one of the pairs of NX-otica were built with M165X drivers in the lower section instead of the M165. What I was wondering is if there would be some advantage to running NQ's across the board, with the lower (or upper and lower) most four (or eight) NQ's crossed over as 'woofers' leaving only an MTM for the mids, like the M165 are now. You mentioned in testing the NX-Treme that running four of the NQ's for the mid drivers didn't work out well, but I'm wondering if NQ's crossed low in place of the M165 would take it up a notch?
I know that doing this wouldn't be cheap (that's a lot of NQ drivers!), and there is always a point of diminishing returns, but for someone chasing after that last 1%???
Aside, does this mean you are still padding down the MTM section when only using four M165 in the NX-otica, that there is still some efficiency left in the tank to keep up with four more woofers? Don't the M165 in the NX-Treme start playing like a line source as far as output while the MTM are still running like a point source?
(I'm also glad to see you switched to painters tape instead of duct tape this time; should make cleaning the glue residue off to prep for final finishing much easier :thumb:)
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What I was wondering was if the issues you saw and heard were the result of all the drivers interacting and the crossover frequency used for the center section and, would the results be different if the only drivers playing were the five MMTMM (all NQ's) and they were allowed to play lower like you did with the MTM section.
Mike
The results had nothing to do with the added woofers up top and below. The upper and lower mids were just too far away from the tweeter for the crossover point. If I could have crossed to them at 800Hz or less then it might have worked out.
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The results had nothing to do with the added woofers up top and below. The upper and lower mids were just too far away from the tweeter for the crossover point. If I could have crossed to them at 800Hz or less then it might have worked out.
OK I understand.
So are the NX-Tremes going to be able to take advantage of the high sensitivity Serenity drivers or are you going to have to damp them down like the NX-Oticas?
Mike
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Danny, seeing as this thread is kind of about excess... :icon_twisted:
I know that at least one of the pairs of NX-otica were built with M165X drivers in the lower section instead of the M165. What I was wondering is if there would be some advantage to running NQ's across the board, with the lower (or upper and lower) most four (or eight) NQ's crossed over as 'woofers' leaving only an MTM for the mids, like the M165 are now. You mentioned in testing the NX-Treme that running four of the NQ's for the mid drivers didn't work out well, but I'm wondering if NQ's crossed low in place of the M165 would take it up a notch?
Considering they aren't allowed to play up very high in this application I don't think there would be much to gain.
I know that doing this wouldn't be cheap (that's a lot of NQ drivers!), and there is always a point of diminishing returns, but for someone chasing after that last 1%???
Yeah, that would get expensive.
Aside, does this mean you are still padding down the MTM section when only using four M165 in the NX-otica, that there is still some efficiency left in the tank to keep up with four more woofers?
There are no resistor in the signal path on this speaker. I shited over to the 16 ohm woofers and ran then on four groups of two. So the output levels stayed the same as the four 8 ohm woofers in the NX-Otica.
Don't the M165 in the NX-Treme start playing like a line source as far as output while the MTM are still running like a point source?
Not really. The play in a range that is so low they are already somewhat omni.
(I'm also glad to see you switched to painters tape instead of duct tape this time; should make cleaning the glue residue off to prep for final finishing much easier :thumb:)
Yeah, I learned that one from the last time.
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OK I understand.
So are the NX-Tremes going to be able to take advantage of the high sensitivity Serenity drivers or are you going to have to damp them down like the NX-Oticas?
Mike
The higher sensitivity version of the Neo 3's used with the Serenity models can be used in this design with no resistor inline with it. Also my new Neo 3 that I have had made (samples in hand) is a drop in replacement for the custom Neo 3 with no crossover changes. :thumb:
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The higher sensitivity version of the Neo 3's used with the Serenity models can be used in this design with no resistor inline with it. Also my new Neo 3 that I have had made (samples in hand) is a drop in replacement for the custom Neo 3 with no crossover changes. :thumb:
That's good. Are you saying your new drivers are higher sensitivity than the old Neo 3 PDR's? Wow!!
Mike
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That's good. Are you saying your new drivers are higher sensitivity than the old Neo 3 PDR's? Wow!!
Mike
The pdr version only used three rows of magnets. Mine use five.
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Cool! I didn't know the NX-otica was using 8-ohm woofers on the bottom; I thought they were 16-ohm.
It is great to read that you are getting closer on your own neo-3 drivers. Even better to read that they are a drop-in replacement in some cases.
Thanks for taking the time to reply and have a great end to the week!
(wondering out loud if you're working on a version of your neo-3 that COULD play down to 800Hz to make that MMTMM setup work. . . you know, for science. . . ;))
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I've been tweaking on these a little more and getting closer to finalizing everything.
Most everyone is wanting these decked out with all the upgrades so I may just offer them that way only. If I do then the price with all upgrades will be $2,900 for the kit and the CNC cut flat pack. Plus shipping.
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Will these be in the 96dB sensitivity range? How large a room do you think would be needed for these......... :icon_twisted:
Thanks,
Ed
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Will these be in the 96dB sensitivity range? How large a room do you think would be needed for these......... :icon_twisted:
Thanks,
Ed
95db range. These will work in a medium sized room pretty well and will fill a big room easily too. Being all open baffle really makes them flexible.
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Here are a few pics of the revised cabinets Had a feeling there'd be extra bracing needed (barin cramp on my part, should have just done it from the get go :duh: ). Added 2 more full braces and a pair of half , or "j-braces" as I like to call them :lol:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152130)
They all fit in dados so it's all pretty much self aligning
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152131)
Add the outer or open wing that has been altered to matchthe new driver compliment along with a bit of an extension to the short section. Note, this is a defective baffle, you can see the radius on the edge disappear as it extends down the baffle. Also woth noting, the bevel on the bottom has not been cut.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152132)
A shot of the braces from the rear, it's all a really nice fit
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152136)
One closer in of the j-braces and how they integrate with the baffle/wings
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152134)
jay
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Any update on these bad boys?
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Any update on these bad boys?
I've been delayed from getting my pair up and finished because of the move to the new location.
These are going to be over the top impressive for sure.
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Christmas came early in the form of a couple big boxes of build-it-yourself NX-Tremes -- now I need to get to work!
I want to put up a few pictures of the packing job done to get the cabinet components here in perfect condition. It's really hard to capture the level of care that went into customizing the packaging. Every one of the smaller pieces came individually wrapped within a protective cocoon of cardboard and styrofoam, as you can see, and the larger pieces came cushioned inside a custom-built crate made of plywood. About two dozen screws hold the top on, and the wooden crossbars make certain that nothing can possibly shift in transit. Jay has worked with me every step of the way to make sure that everything got here in perfect condition. I can't say enough about the communication and care he has taken to make sure that I have everything I need to end up with an amazing finished product.
Everything about the NX-Tremes has been thought out and refined in the extreme, right down to the packaging. This is the product of an amazing team of individuals, and I can only hope to do justice to their efforts with a finish that suits both my room and the speakers. If anyone out there is considering going on this journey, I can only say that you will be working with some of the greatest guys around, from start to finish.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=154077)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=154078)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=154079)
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John,
Appreciate the feedback on the cabinets and packaging, as you know, we want these to go toghther well for pople with minimal fitting etc and to obviously arrive safe and sound.
Been lots of fun working with Danny and Don on these, we haven't had time here to finish a pair off yet but can't wait to do so. I'm sure Danny has nailed the c/o's as usual and they'll sound amazing. I'm still impressed pretty much daily but hat the Oticas can do.
Really looking forward to seeing what you do with yours and what you think of them when they are finished
Keep us all poste3d
jay
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Congratulations John, I'm certain they are going to be amazing. Anxious to see what you do with them.
Best,
Ed
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GR Research is some what new to me. In the past have been on their web sight. Never heard their products. I do not see anything about the NX-Oticas or the NX-Tremes. I take it the Oticas is the short line source? What is the bandwidth on these two NX speakers. I'm currently not going to change speakers but if I were to buy a pair of NX speakers could they be purchased assembled? They are very nice looking and no doubt a lot of effort and thought has gone into them.
From reading Danny's web sight he is using high quality components.
Danny mentioned he moved. Where did he move to?
captainhemo and jseipp can you give the dimensions of both models and weight and frequency response and sensitivity?
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GR Research is some what new to me. In the past have been on their web sight. Never heard their products. I do not see anything about the NX-Oticas or the NX-Tremes.
These are being released in limited numbers. So I didn't want to go through all the effort of creating pages for them with just so few pairs left. If I get in more tweeters then I'll release the kit to online sales as well. Right now I am working on a deal to get new tweeters in here as soon as I can.
I take it the Oticas is the short line source?
No, they are a standard speaker design.
The NX-Tremes are more of a full sized array, but still not a line source.
What is the bandwidth on these two NX speakers.
With the matching servo subs both models will play from 40kHz down to the mid teens (yes well below 20Hz).
I'm currently not going to change speakers but if I were to buy a pair of NX speakers could they be purchased assembled?
Jay and Don will be offering some fully assembled pairs.
They are very nice looking and no doubt a lot of effort and thought has gone into them.
Yes, quite a bit of development went into them. Lots of response measurements were taken to develop the shape of the baffle and side wings.
From reading Danny's web sight he is using high quality components.
Everything matters.
Danny mentioned he moved. Where did he move to?
14 acres just outside of town. We are still completing the remodel and have not officially moved in yet.
captainhemo and jseipp can you give the dimensions of both models and weight and frequency response and sensitivity?
I haven't weighed any of them yet, but they are not as heavy as they look.
The frequency response is very smooth. Both are less than +/-2db from end to end and have exceptionally good vertical and horizontal off axis responses. The spectral decay is also super clean and fast. The NX-Otica sensitivity is 93.5db, and the NX-Treme model comes in at 94.5db. So they are super easy to drive.
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captainhemo and jseipp can you give the dimensions of both models and weight and frequency response and sensitivity?
When these are sent out as "flat packs", IIRC the Otticas go in 2 boxes ( approx 80 and 30 lbs), the Extremes go in a 200lb crate and a 2nd 30 lbs box. I have also not weighed a completed speaker but, I'd estimate the otticas at approx 110 lbs each and the the Extremes at approx 155 lbs each (fully assembled with drivers, networks, no-rez etc)
The Otticas stand 53.5" tall , the Extremes 83.5" (before spikes).
Both these kits do come with very high quality componnts , as Danny mentined it all mkakes a difference. With the pair of nx-trremes we are building here, we'll be building them out with the supplied kit parts but also building out a 2nd set of networks using Clarity CMR/CSA caps and Jentzen Wax/Copper Foil inductors so at some point, we'll be able to do some comparisons 8)
jay
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Thanks captainhemo.
Are the Otticas a 3 way speaker? Do they get into the 30hz region with out a sub? What type of tweeter is in them? What is with the availability of the tweeter? Danny mentioned these two NX speakers will be limited. Does that mean they cannot be had in a year, two years?
The 2nd pair of Tremes your making is impressive with the crossover components you will be using. If I were to purchase a pair of Otticas that's the direction I would go. Is the 2nd pair for a customer?
I hope to talk with Danny soon. He commented about how clean the spectral decay graph was. Very very few speaker manufactures bring that up.
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Thanks captainhemo.
Are the Otticas a 3 way speaker? Do they get into the 30hz region with out a sub? What type of tweeter is in them? What is with the availability of the tweeter? Danny mentioned these two NX speakers will be limited. Does that mean they cannot be had in a year, two years?
Yes, both are a 3-way design
No, both versions really need to be paired with the OB servo subs for best results. It's an amazing match
The NX-Ottica's work with either a standard Neo 3 PDR or the higher efficiency Serenity Acousitcs version (simple network tweak), the NX-Teeme requires the higher efficiency version. Danny has a limited number of pairs of the Serenity tweeter but as he mentioned, he is working on a new design that will be a drop in replacement at some point... so for now, availability is limited to what Danny has or if a customer has his own Neo 3 PDR's to use in a pair of NX-Ottica's.
The 2nd pair of Tremes your making is impressive with the crossover components you will be using. If I were to purchase a pair of Otticas that's the direction I would go. Is the 2nd pair for a customer?
It'll only be one pair of NX-Tremes with 2 seperate external networks. These will go in my partner Don's living room (had to let his wife choose the color although I think there was some persuasion :lol: )
Don['t under estimate the standard parts, they perform extremely well but we are curious to know what we'll end up with by going with the parts I noted above.
I hope to talk with Danny soon. He commented about how clean the spectral decay graph was. Very very few speaker manufactures bring that up.
Remember too, in Danny's response graphs he usues a 5 db scale, not many do that either.
jay
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Thanks again Jay. I'm learning and getting a better understanding what the NX- Ottica and NX-Tremes are about. Just got off the phone with Danny. Had a very good discussion. I will keep an eye on this thread and give the NX-Ottica some serious thought. If the day comes that I buy a pair i will probably assemble them myself. Will need to buy a new solder iron. Need your input on that. I'm really interested in these two speakers and the servo subs.Looking forward to your updates on the progress being made on your NX-Tremes.
Jeff
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Danny,
Will your new tweeters eventually be available for the rest of your N-series kits as well?
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Are the Otticas a 3 way speaker?
Yes.
Do they get into the 30hz region with out a sub?
No, the servo subs are a critical part of the speaker. Then main speakers will only play down to a -3db of 70 to 80Hz.
What type of tweeter is in them?
Planar magnetic.
What is with the availability of the tweeter?
Very limited at the moment. But I am having a custom variant made.
Danny mentioned these two NX speakers will be limited. Does that mean they cannot be had in a year, two years?
I hope to talk with Danny soon. He commented about how clean the spectral decay graph was. Very very few speaker manufactures bring that up.
Of all the measurements that can be taken, nothing will tell you more about how a speaker will sound than the csd.