I don’t care what anyone says ... Cables do make a difference!

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Wind Chaser

If a piece of equipment is very sensitive to cable swapping (assuming the comparison is fair, not 1000 feet of wire vs 2 feet of wire kind of thing), then it's probably not such a great piece of equipment, regardless of cost.

Here's a story about 2 cables using Cherry amps ... do you want to refute my findings?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155498.0


AmpDesigner333

Here's a story about 2 cables using Cherry amps ... do you want to refute my findings?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155498.0
As stated on the our "break-in" thread, I appreciate that you honored my request for a new thread!

Am I correct that you were comparing an XLR (balanced) cable to an RCA (single ended) cable ---- on the thread you link points to?

I'm a bit pressed for time on a few things at the moment, but I'll try to keep an eye on this thread.  You know it's one of my favorite subjects  8)

Thanks (:

maxima95

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 118
"... If a piece of equipment is very sensitive to cable swapping (assuming the comparison is fair, not 1000 feet of wire vs 2 feet of wire kind of thing), then it's probably not such a great piece of equipment, regardless of cost."

Wind Chaser's findings notwithstanding, what possible basis could you have for making the above claim?

Lots of gear responds to cable swapping. Applying your statement to such equipment would yield the nonsensical result that most everything would be 'not such a great piece of equipment.'

AmpDesigner333

"... If a piece of equipment is very sensitive to cable swapping (assuming the comparison is fair, not 1000 feet of wire vs 2 feet of wire kind of thing), then it's probably not such a great piece of equipment, regardless of cost."

Wind Chaser's findings notwithstanding, what possible basis could you have for making the above claim?

Lots of gear responds to cable swapping. Applying your statement to such equipment would yield the nonsensical result that most everything would be 'not such a great piece of equipment.'
I'm not a fan of being quoted out of context.  It's like a soundbite (no pun intended) when you didn't hear the whole speech.  I stand by what I wrote.

The biggest assumption is that the cables in question are free from excessive parasitic capacitance, inductance, and resistance (thus the word "decent").  It also assumes good connectors, reasonable length, and a few other factors.  One kind of obvious criteria for comparison is that they are the same TYPE of wire, not something like balanced vs unbalanced, or HDMI vs USB.  Oh, we can talk about digital cables later.  Some other day.

It's hard to argue with measurements.  I believe in repeatable tests made with professional test equipment much more than rhetoric or hyperbole.  If you look back at my posts over the years, you might notice that I mention being a scientist when the question of measurement comes up.  Test equipment can spot differences several orders of magnitude smaller than the human ear.  If wire makers would provide measurements, we would all benefit.  Notice how many companies produce audio products and don't even own the proper test equipment to verify the quality of their work.  How can they even perform adequate quality control?    Also, how can they say that their cables have the same performance unit-to-unit?  What if you have one good one and one not-so-good one, one on each channel?  Whew, that was a hard sentence to write.

Back to wires....  As I mentioned in my other post, we measure cables occasionally, and have NEVER found a significant difference in performance between two decent XLR or RCA cables of the same length.

My intention here is to save listeners some money.  We do sell wire, by the way, but only a few things at near zero margin, and we measure them.  For example, Speaker Snakes (notice the graph in the first post):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137075.0

AmpDesigner333

One more thing for now....  It wouldn't surprise me of there are models of interconnects or even brands of interconnects with very high prices and not-so-great construction or electrical performance or shielding....

Early B.

Tommy --

As a scientist, I can appreciate and understand your position on cable measurements. But there are three truths that, as a scientist, you have to acknowledge:

1. Everything isn't measurable or can be explained through standard scientific measurements
2. Audio is extraordinarily subjective and thus doesn't adhere to a strict scientific model
3. Experience is a form of science.

There's a flaw in your argument that's often referred to as a logical leap -- it may be true that good cables aren't measurably different, but that doesn't mean we can't hear differences in cables. The broad assumption is that measurements are sufficient to prove conclusively that good cables don't sound differently.

I can tell you from experience that I can hear cable differences, and many (perhaps most) of the audiophiles on this forum can hear them, too. I'll take our collective experience over science any day of the week. Here's an analogy --  ask a scientist why we sleep and they'll recite one of many theories. Ask me why I sleep and I can tell you from experience the reason that I sleep, and everyone else who sleeps (even scientists) has a similar experience.
     
« Last Edit: 21 Mar 2018, 05:05 am by Early B. »

sumoking

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 52
My two cents is while the XLR cables are very cheap I am using
my system sounds amazing.
I will experiment with some different xlr cables once I get some extra cash
And I would be shocked if they didn’t sound different/better with better cables.

Wind Chaser


It's hard to argue with measurements.


There was a time when I was quite focused on measurements, but then I realized they don't tell the whole story, or much about what ultimately matters most... so my focus shifted to sound quality. Straight up I'm never going to choose superior measurements over superior sound quality.

Quote
Back to wires....  As I mentioned in my other post, we measure cables occasionally, and have NEVER found a significant difference in performance between two decent XLR or RCA cables of the same length.

My intention here is to save listeners some money.

Your intention is noble, but I am very much of the opinion that your product, especially your product, deserves the very best ancillaries and cables.  :wink: