Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?

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smargo

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Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #20 on: 15 Dec 2017, 08:43 pm »
Keep it simple -- no remote because it significantly drives up cost if done right and if a good quality remote is included (not that plastic crap).

Two inputs, two outputs, one of each is balanced.

$799 price point. At this price, if the preamp blows your customer away, he'll be much more likely to purchase the Cherry amps shortly thereafter.
 

couldn't disagree with you more about the remote - in this day and age not having a remote - is like not having a cell phone

its what customers expect if your going to be viable in the future

Wind Chaser

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #21 on: 15 Dec 2017, 08:57 pm »
couldn't disagree with you more about the remote - in this day and age not having a remote - is like not having a cell phone

No, it's worse than that. I can live without a cell phone, been doing that for over 10 years now. But no remote is a deal breaker. I really don't want an integrated DAC, and it must have at least 2 pairs of single ended inputs and 1 pair of single ended outputs or it's a no go for me.

AmpDesigner333

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #22 on: 15 Dec 2017, 09:25 pm »
Just to add a little info....

These days, our most recommended system setup for Maraschino monoblock owners is the simplest, and it skips over the preamp entirely.  We configured the DAC DAC (both TL and HS versions) to drive Maraschino monoblock amplifiers directly while allowing a few dB of clipping at full scale (0dBFS a.k.a. 1FS).  So, this way, you can use a music server (or PC running the appropriate SW, like JRiver) to deliver PCM to the DAC that is scaled (volume control).  PLUS, you can use your phone (or an iPad, iPod Touch, or tablet) as the remote with a simple app like JRemote, and you can control the track and volume from your seat (over wifi).

With SW like JRiver, all formats are supported and converted to PCM easily.  Digital volume requires a few things to work effectively, the most important of which is a really good DAC....

OK, with this in mind, let's keep the conversation going!  Thanks, all for the input and compliments.   :D

AmpDesigner333

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #23 on: 15 Dec 2017, 09:30 pm »
No, it's worse than that. I can live without a cell phone, been doing that for over 10 years now. But no remote is a deal breaker. I really don't want an integrated DAC, and it must have at least 2 pairs of single ended inputs and 1 pair of single ended outputs or it's a no go for me.
Single ended and balanced in/out is no problem.

For the remote, we can just do what Mytek does and use an Apple remote.  It is kind of "plasticy", though, but sleek.

I'm a fan of heavy metal remotes.  No pun intended.

We can discuss the cell phone thing later, but WOW, very interesting stuff!

JohnR

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #24 on: 16 Dec 2017, 06:51 am »
use an Apple remote.

I believe the new remote (supplied with the Apple TV4 for example) uses different codes. Just something to be aware of maybe :)

gregfisk

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Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #25 on: 16 Dec 2017, 07:02 am »
Two analog inputs, maybe three. one balanced, one not.

Two outputs same thing.

No Dac.

Volume control is a MUST! Not having one is living in the past. I put it in the same category as not having a TV remote. Volume and balance control on the remote.

Make the case large enough that you have room for the connectors.

an additional feature might be an HT bypass.

$2000.00 or less if realistic?


AmpDesigner333

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #26 on: 16 Dec 2017, 12:32 pm »
Two analog inputs, maybe three. one balanced, one not.

Two outputs same thing.

No Dac.

Volume control is a MUST! Not having one is living in the past. I put it in the same category as not having a TV remote. Volume and balance control on the remote.

Make the case large enough that you have room for the connectors.

an additional feature might be an HT bypass.

$2000.00 or less if realistic?
How important is the "balance control" part of the remote?  That adds a level of difficulty....

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #27 on: 16 Dec 2017, 01:47 pm »
So, am I reading that it seems most of the people in thread so far are asking for a simple analog-only preamp?

If a thought early in the thread of possibility of digital inputs still has traction (and would be paired with analog outputs), and the volume control that has been floated around (no pun intended with the FPGA comment) is something that by design is done in the digital domain (reprocessing the original signal, whether done D-D or A-D before being converted D-A for the outputs), unless I'm missing something, all that kind of requires a DAC, and if a DAC needs to be in there anyway, it seems counterproductive not to use a GOOD one (Tommy's words)?  Having digital inputs to that DAC in the device simply means that Tommy's "most recommended" signal path (digital source - digital volume control - DAC - analog amplifier output stage) would be available, with the "added feature" (as an analog preamp) to be able to take input from analog sources (phono stages, tapes, someone's favorite outboard DAC...) as well (analog source - internal ADC - digital volume control - DAC - analog amplifier output stage)?

Although it sounds like there is some interest by people posting in this thread for an analog preamp, maybe some of your existing (amplifier) customers looking to go all-in on your design philosophy are really looking for a more fully-featured integrated than the STM (or at least an equivalent "preamp" section in a case that could be connected to their already purchased outboard amps) with a few more analog inputs for those still using something other than a single, non-digital source?

...or maybe I'm over thinking this and I should just let Tommy put together a nice analog input switcher with an impedance buffer and remote volume control and call it a day. :)



(As an aside, on what seems to be Tommy's common thread of streamlining and shortening signal paths, I'm wondering out loud why there hasn't been produced a DAC DAC 1.5 that builds the USB-SPDIF converter into the DAC itself, thus allowing the shortest possible signal path (no external connectors or variables in cabling) from a USB input to the DAC DAC's native (SPDIF?) input?)

(Taken a step further, starting with the "all pieces are already in place" starting point, it doesn't seem much of a stretch to build an all-digital "integrated" that puts the "most recommended configuration" all in one box, maybe adding a digital volume control so as to not rely on a variable in the quality of digital volume control at the source?  It kind of seems to be more in line with industry trends - DACs that include volume control/"preamp" functionality, or fully integrated software driven digital solutions - but I might be completely wrong. Is the DAC/pre still the "in" thing or is the industry leaning more in the direction of streamer/source/pre so that DACs can be changed more easily at will/whim?)

Wind Chaser

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #28 on: 16 Dec 2017, 04:44 pm »
Two analog inputs, maybe three. one balanced, one not.

Two outputs same thing.

No Dac.

Volume control is a MUST! Not having one is living in the past. I put it in the same category as not having a TV remote. Volume and balance control on the remote.

Make the case large enough that you have room for the connectors.

an additional feature might be an HT bypass.

$2000.00 or less if realistic?

I agree with pretty much everything here but why a balance control? I’ve never had need for one in the past nor do I anticipate I will in the future.

gregfisk

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Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #29 on: 17 Dec 2017, 02:24 am »
How important is the "balance control" part of the remote?  That adds a level of difficulty....

It's not a deal breaker by any means Tommy, not all songs are in balance and I notice it. They sound better to me if tweaked a little one way or the other depending on the song.

WC, if you don't notice it then you don't have to use it, I find them useful. Right now I'm using a Lampizator Atlantic Dac/Preamp. It doesn't have a balance control but that didn't keep me from buying it. I do miss not having the control on occasion thou. 

Wind Chaser

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #30 on: 17 Dec 2017, 06:37 am »
...not all songs are in balance and I notice it. They sound better to me if tweaked a little one way or the other depending on the song.

Can you point to a few specific recordings where you found the balance is out?

gregfisk

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Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #31 on: 17 Dec 2017, 08:43 am »
Can you point to a few specific recordings where you found the balance is out?

Not off the top of my head. 

timind

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #32 on: 17 Dec 2017, 02:12 pm »
This question has been bugging me, what would be "class D" about a preamp? I can understand Digital Amplifier Company building a preamp, just not sure what advantage there would be in sending a low level signal through class D.

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #33 on: 17 Dec 2017, 02:23 pm »
This question has been bugging me, what would be "class D" about a preamp? I can understand Digital Amplifier Company building a preamp, just not sure what advantage there would be in sending a low level signal through class D.

From Tommy, earlier in this thread:

Time to address the elephant in the room....  It's a preamp, probably analog and digital input.  Not Class-D.  The amps, if integrated, like the Stereo Maraschino, would be Class-D, however.

This device is almost 100% sure to have an FPGA running the show.

Regarding "direct digital" amps (PCM -> PWM, etc.).  Been there, done that.  The price goes way up (to facilitate super fancy components required for great audio performance with that topology), or the performance (measured audio wise) goes down.

Thanks as always (:

AmpDesigner333

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #34 on: 21 Dec 2017, 09:29 pm »
How about a digital-out only preamp?  Just thinking out loud.

It would still have analog input(s), driving a high performance ADC.

With more integration comes less flexibility.

This could also be bundled with the DAC DAC (TL or HS) as the analog output option.  Digital volume control, of course (:

rodge827

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #35 on: 21 Dec 2017, 10:46 pm »
Sounds like a good idea  8)
Digital ins and outs with an internal A-D converter for analog sources. DC powered with a super quiet LPS is a must. :thumb:

AmpDesigner333

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #36 on: 28 Dec 2017, 11:13 am »
OK, so here's the product as I see it, the Digital Amp Co Digital Preamp (DPA)....  4 Digital Inputs, including USB, optical SPDIF, 2 x Coax SPDIF, and 2 stereo Analog Inputs (single ended).  The output is coax SPDIF (to drive the DAC DAC).  It will feature a volume control with learning remote.  How does THAT sound?

rodge827

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #37 on: 28 Dec 2017, 01:31 pm »
Sounds good to me...Will the preamp be able to be used with other dacs? Upsample? Sample rates?

AKLegal

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #38 on: 28 Dec 2017, 02:30 pm »
So no hope for a HT bypass option? 

Also, a spdif output? 

 I'm really enjoying a pair of the in line Masachino's I picked up this month.  They are really amazing amps.

AmpDesigner333

Re: Hey Tommy, any plans to make a Class D preamp?
« Reply #39 on: 29 Dec 2017, 04:32 am »
So no hope for a HT bypass option? 

Also, a spdif output? 

 I'm really enjoying a pair of the in line Masachino's I picked up this month.  They are really amazing amps.

First, thanks for the compliments regarding the In-Line Maraschino Amp!

SPDIF output allows use of the DAC DAC's internally re-clocking SPDIF receiver.  This fempto-clock driven source for the internal IIS interface to the DAC chips makes everything gel for a perfectionist's digital dream!

Of course, we WILL have an HT bypass mode!

Thanks for your kind post.

-Tommy O