[amro200]

Hello
This is my first post here, I hope it's the right section,
 I recently bought Bryston 4B SST2 to improve the sound quality of my system

I heard good things about the synergy between ARC and Bryston, and would like to buy and ARC preamp and currently have a good offer for a new SP17L for 2500$.

I know auditioning is the best way to decide , but can't audition any ARC preamps here,
How do you compare the SP17L to other ARCs and do you have any other ARC suggestions? appreciate your help.

System is as below:
Logitech Squeezebox Touch streamer
Cyrus 6 CD
Perreaux DP32 (DAC/Pre)
PMC FB1i

[drummermitchell]

I did audition a Arc Ref-5 a few years back with my 7Bsst's.
Also I did a home audition in my room in which to hear how the 5 sounded in the room.
I really liked the sound I was getting but couldn't afford it at the time and if I could I'm sure I would have bought the 5.
I was comparing the BP-26 to the 5.
Both are very good as a year later I ended up with the Vac MKII-A preamp.
There are as you stated lots of good reports of a good match with Arc and Bryston.
I would imagine if that Arc has similar characteristics as other Arc pre's that it will be a good match.
Also now I use the 28's with the Vac and have no desire to change pre or amps.

[avta]

I would also consider a Shindo Aurieges L ( line stage  not for turntable use ). I bought one some months back. They are considered by some to be in a class by themselves. Mr. Shindo passed away recently but his family carries on his work. I noticed someone was selling one on this site. Not sure if its still available but they rarely come on the market.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Take a look at this BAT VK-32se.  I own the 51se.  Awesome preamp.  Also consider the VK-31se and the CJ ET-3se

 http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-balanced-audio-technology-vk32se-2014-06-02-preamplifiers-80301-boulder-co

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-balanced-audio-technologies-bat-vk-31se-upgraded-mighty-bat-tube-pre-amp-2014-05-22-preamplifiers-11249-ny

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-conrad-johnson-et-3-se-less-than-one-month-old-2014-06-03-preamplifiers-85750-tucson-az

I auditioned an ARC LS27 preamp and an Atma-sphere MP-3.  I preferred the sound of the MP-3 over the more expensive LS27, it had a sweeter, fuller midrange while the ARC had more air, but the used BAT VK-51se had them both beat in detail, musicality, dynamics, bass and midrange.  All 3 are excellent preamps though.  My system consists of a Pass X250 amp and Magnepan 1.6 speakers.

That BAT VK32se is a bargain.  Had it been available at the time, I probably would have bought it over the older 51se.


Here are some reviews of the BAT preamp-

http://www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/1103bat/

[bjski]

Another vote for the Bat32SE. I am currently using a Bat32SE with Bryston 7BSST/2. The rest of my system is all Bryston except for speakers. Prior to the new amp and preamp I was using a Bat VK5i with 4BST then a 4BSST/2.

I bet you can find a good deal on a used Bat 32SE. I have also seen some good deal's on a new 32SE. Bat has now released the 33SE. So if you buy a used 32SE for $1500 you can update it to the newest version 33SE at a later date.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

You won't be able to find a used 32se for $1500, they were going for about $4K several months ago but they have recently come down in price.  There is one on audiogon for an excellent price.

[Samurai7595]

I don't own any tube gear and have no experience with tubes so my comment below may be a dumb one but here it goes...   

What's the point of mixing tubes with solid state.  To me, it sounds like a compromise since there seems to be two different camps when it comes to audio gear: tubes vs. solid state.

Can someone please explain?

[Hear Clifford Brown]

Another one to consider is the deHavilland UltraVerve 3 Remote Preamplifer.  I have one for sale so I suppose take this with a grain of salt.  It sounds very good to me, deep wide soundstage, great bass, lots of "tone" with the 6SN7 tube.  I've only had it for a week and would keep it except for an issue with the particular SS amp I have.  I won't go into details here but if interested send a PM.

Some reviews and other info:

http://dagogo.com/dehavilland-ultraverve-remote-linestage

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue15/ultraverve.htm

http://www.dehavillandhifi.com/index.html

[Cheeseboy]

I'll second the motion for an Ultraverve 3.  It will add all of the honey and goodness to the combination. 

[Photon46]

I don't own any tube gear and have no experience with tubes so my comment below may be a dumb one but here it goes...   

What's the point of mixing tubes with solid state.  To me, it sounds like a compromise since there seems to be two different camps when it comes to audio gear: tubes vs. solid state.

Can someone please explain?

As an owner of a DeHavilland UltraVerve III mentioned in the previous post, I can affirm that it is a phenomenal product for the price. The DeHavilland and Shindo Auriege have been called by one reviewer the greatest bargains in tubed preamps, although each does different things better. As to Samurai's question, the main thing that a good tubed preamp like the DeHavilland brings to the party is a degree of tonal saturation I've not heard from solid state preamps at less than around $10,000 retail. Well engineered solid state and tube designs have grown closer together in sound as time has gone by, but tubes still provide a certain tonal density and richness that's hard to come by with solid state. The main downside owning both tube pre and power amps is heat and the expense of replacing the tubes (and the lack of reliability in some brands.) Using a tubed preamp with a solid state power amp gives you a large measure of the tonal richness that tubes can offer without incurring the energy and tube replacement costs of an all tube system. Not all tube preamps bring the same degree of tonal richness and saturation, depends on the tubes used and how they're implemented by the designer. Right now, I've got a DeHaviland UltraVerve III, a Music Reference RM5III, and solid state Aloia PST 11.01 preamps. The Music Reference, although tubed, sounds very similar to the solid state Aloia. The DeHavilland would never be mistaken for either of the other two.

[Ron D]

I've tried a number of tubed preamps with a number of Bryston amps (4B-SST,14B-SST, 7B-SST2) although sadly never the unit you are looking at. What I can say is that like others here there are other choices and I had various success with a Rogue Magnum 66 & 99, Hovland HP-100, Audio Horizon, Lamm LL2 Deluxe, Lamm L2-Ref, ARC LS-26 and most recently an ARC Ref 3. I liked certain aspects of them all but the best bang for the buck was the smaller Lamm LL2 Deluxe. I actually preferred it to its much more expensive big brother the L2-Ref which was somewhat problematic in my system. The only reason it went down the road was its lack of a remote control.

[PRELUDE]

Hello
This is my first post here, I hope it's the right section,
 I recently bought Bryston 4B SST2 to improve the sound quality of my system

I heard good things about the synergy between ARC and Bryston, and would like to buy and ARC preamp and currently have a good offer for a new SP17L for 2500$.

I know auditioning is the best way to decide , but can't audition any ARC preamps here,
How do you compare the SP17L to other ARCs and do you have any other ARC suggestions? appreciate your help.

System is as below:
Logitech Squeezebox Touch streamer
Cyrus 6 CD
Perreaux DP32 (DAC/Pre)
PMC FB1i

Hi
  welcome to Bryston circle and congratulation on your new 4B SST2.
Remember that you can always  search your question and you would be surprise to see how many answers you would find about the topic.
   http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=95073.0

[GT Audio Works]

I don't own any tube gear and have no experience with tubes so my comment below may be a dumb one but here it goes...   

What's the point of mixing tubes with solid state.  To me, it sounds like a compromise since there seems to be two different camps when it comes to audio gear: tubes vs. solid state.

Can someone please explain?

Mixing tubes and solid state can often lead to a good compromise between the attributes of both...kinda like sweet and savory in cooking.
I have a Prima Luna Dialogue Premium preamp and a Bryston 4b amp they go together very well, offering wonderful tonality, transparency and stage presentation coupled with the weight and slam and speed the S/S unit is known for.
Sure equipment manufacturers tend to favor one or the other regarding output topology, unless they make hybrids.
But mixed or not..... sounding good is the final criteria.
                  Greg

[Hear Clifford Brown]

I should add to my previous comment since satisfied owners of the deHaviland UltraVerve 3 Remote preamp have asked me what I'm talking about.   When I said there was an issue using this pre with the SS amp I have, it is totally because of the amp and has nothing to do with the preamp.

My Sanders Magtech amp is designed to be left on at all times, the only power switch is even in a difficult to reach location in back.  This creates a problem with tube preamps if you want to leave the amp on all the time.  The normal procedure of pre on first then turn the amp on can't be followed.  I have a Dodd tube pre (also for sale) and when it is turned on there is a loud pop or thump from the speakers.  The UltraVerve doesn't do that since is has soft start feature, but it causes a less loud pop at turn off.  Previously I had an Ayre SS amp which had a power switch in back and a standby / on switch in front.  The UltraVerve worked fine with that amp because you could follow the normal procedure of turning the pre on first then switch the amp from standby to on.

[Cheeseboy]

I'm currently using the Dodd Battery Pre-Amp with the 6H30DR tube.  It is on the opposite end of the preamp spectrum as the Ultraverve.  While the Ultraverve sounds very lush and syrupy the Dodd is hyperdetail, soundstage and front to back are great as it delivers in the light with balance and poise.  The Ultraverve will deliver in the midrange like no other in it's price class.  It leans towards the darkness.  I noticed that Hear Clifford Brown has low mileage versions of both for sale.   It's you lucky day. 

In my opinion I would have loved to have begun my audiophile journey with a tubed preamp like the Ultraverve and all of its romantic and cozy interpretation of the music.  Romantic might be going a little overboard.  Let's just say "Lush".  A lush preamp in front of a formidable amp like the Bryston would have been heaven.   

Both of these preamps would serve you incredibly well.  Check them out.

[drummermitchell]

Man alive,I know we all have descriptive words for the way music sounds to our ears and we try to describe the best we can but Jeezes H Christ............Syrupy sounds to me  like rolled off a lot in the highs and distortion lingering on forever.
Murky in the bottom end when there should be slam like walkin in the ring with Tyson for 5 seconds..boom boom out go the lights like a Bryston amp will give you.
Just a rant as one descriptive word can be interpreted in a multitude of different ways.
If that ARC is similar in character as the 3 or 5,I'd say go for it as Arc and Bryston seem to go very well together,so it seems by threads I have read and I have actually home auditioned the 5 and 7's.
Or a guaranteed fit is a Bryston BP-26.
I did enjoy both and actually I auditioned the 5 as I figured I would do both SS and tube just for the variety of SS and tubes.
Really I could live with a Ref 3-5(as that's all I have auditioned)or the BP-26 for a more controlled sound(keeps a grip on everything)where a tube pre is looser(descriptive)but not syruppy.

Been a nice hot day here in Athabasca and playin tunes thru the BDP-2 on my back deck with a mess of happy pops
so I's gittin just a tad carried away........go for the ARC, Indiana .

[jackman]

Where are you located?  You are welcome to try my SAS 10a preamp if you are near Chicago. It is defiantly not syrupy or tuby but it sounds great.  I'm thinking about getting the Sas 11a in the classifieds. These preamps have very low gain and are very transparent. No remote though!

[Diamond Dog]

Hello
This is my first post here, I hope it's the right section,
 I recently bought Bryston 4B SST2 to improve the sound quality of my system

I heard good things about the synergy between ARC and Bryston, and would like to buy and ARC preamp and currently have a good offer for a new SP17L for 2500$.

I know auditioning is the best way to decide , but can't audition any ARC preamps here,
How do you compare the SP17L to other ARCs and do you have any other ARC suggestions? appreciate your help.

System is as below:
Logitech Squeezebox Touch streamer
Cyrus 6 CD
Perreaux DP32 (DAC/Pre)
PMC FB1i

Amro, those FB1i's are great fun - I used to have a pair. You may have your heart set on ARC but here's a little story for the offering...and it's 100% true.

I've been using Bryston 7BSST2's for several years now with PMC speakers, first the FB1i's, then fact.8's and in a week or so, fact.12's ( don't get me started on that odyssey... ). Like you , I had an idea to try a tube pre with my rig and ended up getting a Manley Jumbo Shrimp. Loved it...and if a little's good then a LOT has gotta be better, right? So I traded it in on what is sorta the Yeti of Preamps, the Manley Neo-Classic 300B - seldom sighted but those who have experienced it are unshakable believers. Did it based on what little info was available on it and without any chance of hearing one first - they are not common - or at least they weren't around here. Then I had an audio friend over and we listened to my system: not long after, I ended up taking my Neo over to his house so we could try it in his system - 28B's and IB2i's. Not long after that he bought a Neo. Later, he was chatting with a mutual friend at the shop where we all get our Bryston and PMC and invited him over to hear his new Manley. Not long after that our mutual friend bought a Neo to go along with his IB2i's and 14B...So anyways, a friend we both knew came over to the 14B guy's house to check out his computer audio set up a month or so ago and was entranced by the Neo. Yep, bought one to go with his 28's and big Tannoys.( Fun Fact:  EveAnna Manley has Tannoys.)

 My medium-sized city has become Ground Zero for the Manley Neo-Classic 300B pre-amp cult. Dyin' if I'm lyin'... and I came out of Audiocircle retirement just to share that story with you because it's just so damned odd...

So all the boys here are going to talk up whatever tube pre's they own and they all seem pretty happy with their choices and good for them but this, my friend...this is a phenomenon.

Have fun, everybody. 

D.D.   

[I.Greyhound Fan]

All the preamps mentioned here are excellent and I am sure they all would sound great.  It is just a matter or individual preference and what you have been able to audition.  I favor the BAT preamps because they are not too tubey sounding and they have a deep and liquid midrange with a lot of texture to the music which great dynamics and bass slam.

[Austin08]

All the preamps mentioned here are excellent and I am sure they all would sound great.  It is just a matter or individual preference and what you have been able to audition.  I favor the BAT preamps because they are not too tubey sounding and they have a deep and liquid midrange with a lot of texture to the music which great dynamics and bass slam.

I agree, I have owned quite a few CJ, ARC and I also owned 2 BAT preamps. Now, I am using BAT VK32se and having exactly same feeling. The BAT preamp is quite fast & dynamic. Its midrange is lush and on warm side but not too warm like those old CJ PV 12/premier 14. ARC preamps (LS15/17) is on neutral side but the VK 32se while sound a bit warmer but got more slam on bass. I also think the high on BAT preamp is easy to live with too. Lately, I have audition several tube preamps. There are a big gap in sound quality. All newer preamps version from those three companies are really superior to the old model by a wide margin. Among those new preamp, ARC LS27, CJ ET3se and BAT VK32se are my favorite. All three preamp are excellent with sound to die for. But if I have to make a choice, I would choose the LS27 over the other two. The only reason I am ending up with VK32se is beacause the offer price for a demo one is too good to pass. Although, it was a money driving my decision but after living with it for almost a year, I truly believe I have made a right choice. The BAT preamp is still growing on me and I am getting excite every time I turn my system on. Just my 2cts.