[trackball02]

I'm a newbie, and I would like to thank the discussion by jaapnr1. Quite interesting and I enjoyed your objective and technical discussion. Strictly from a USB cable perspective, I'm interested in getting the best sound from my system, but am also aware of cost effectiveness and value. I just can't see spending hundreds on a USB cable upgrade if there is questionable benefit. Does anyone know of a double blind test or shoot out of various UBS cables?

[jaapnr1]

I'm a newbie, and I would like to thank the discussion by jaapnr1. Quite interesting and I enjoyed your objective and technical discussion. Strictly from a USB cable perspective, I'm interested in getting the best sound from my system, but am also aware of cost effectiveness and value. I just can't see spending hundreds on a USB cable upgrade if there is questionable benefit. Does anyone know of a double blind test or shoot out of various UBS cables?

Thank you trackball02,

Well... I did do a blind test before I did the background story.  . I used the $5 standard cable and the AudioQuest Coffee as examples in the background story, but I used around 5 cables during the bind test. For example: Oehlbach, AudioQuest Cinnamon and another one. I believe Furutech. None made a difference. My guesses were completely random.

I'm not saying you shouldn't try. Maybe your usb-dac is sensitive to cable-influences. I'm just saying - and trying to explain in the story - that it's NOT the data that makes the difference. If data gets corrupted, you hear a tick, plop, drop-out. That makes sense, doesn't it?  .

The only thing that can go wrong is high-frequency pollution that goes over the power-lines in the cable. If those get in the audio-circuit (that shouldn't be possible by design), maybe you can hear a difference.

[jaapnr1]

Jaapnr1,
Did you not say, "a cable should not make the difference, if it does the device is not properly built." I like to see measurement stuff too, but I just wanted to make sure newbies did not feel intimidated about trying something because it may not make logical technical sense. 

Since James used the phrase about attacking and ridecule, I wanted to make sure I wasn't lobbing any hand grenades your way or his in a denigrating manner. That's all.

Oh... I wasn't intimidated at all: we're just having a discussion, aren't we? 

[saisunil]

Folks

Most dealers / manufacturers have return policy.
Try it for yourself and see what works for you in your system.

You may be surprised that you opinions may change after your experience.

Cheers

[ZombieFish]

Analogue cables, yes, they make a huge difference.

Digital cables.  Not so much. As long as the cables meet the digital specifications, be it to toslink, usb, fibre, ethernet, it won't make any difference.

Now, there are crap usb cables, poorly made and cheap garbage.  Those will fail, and I have seen that.  $20-30 is what I would pay for a decent cable.  Put the money into the interconnects from the DAC to the pre-amp.

[jaapnr1]

Analogue cables, yes, they make a huge difference.

Digital cables.  Not so much. As long as the cables meet the digital specifications, be it to toslink, usb, fibre, ethernet, it won't make any difference.

Now, there are crap usb cables, poorly made and cheap garbage.  Those will fail, and I have seen that.  $20-30 is what I would pay for a decent cable.  Put the money into the interconnects from the DAC to the pre-amp.

Couldn't agree more!
Except for spdif-cables... i've seriously heard big differences. But that's because it really needs to be 75 ohms. And a cinch-plug can't be 75 ohm... some plugs get closer, so the tend to sound better. Pair that with better shielding, and you get a nice cable (but more expensive).

[JfTM]

Or placing different denominations of coins on top of your speakers. I haven't tried foreign coins yet, so I can't vouch for their efficacy. I imagine placing French coinage on top of British speakers could cause some co-operation/teamwork issues? 

Particularly right now with the Euro Zone issues 

[Marius]

things are getting even stranger: Absolute Sound recommends larger Hdds over smaller ones: they sound better. Because they spinn faster  http://www.avguide.com/review/computer-audio-and-itunes-demystified-tas-217?page=8

the USB theory is boiled down to preventing distortion and noise, which seems very viable. Whether the HIend cables do a better job at that than the cheaper ones remains to be experienced I guess.

demystified? far from it.

Marius

[James Tanner]

things are getting even stranger: Absolute Sound recommends larger Hdds over smaller ones: they sound better. Because they spinn faster  http://www.avguide.com/review/computer-audio-and-itunes-demystified-tas-217?page=8

the USB theory is boiled down to preventing distortion and noise, which seems very viable. Whether the HIend cables do a better job at that than the cheaper ones remains to be experienced I guess.

demystified? far from it.

Marius

I can not see how the size of the drive or the speed could affect the BDP-1 because it uses a buffer on the input.

james

[Marius]

HI James,

Since we're on the topic of buffering, could you please explain why that design in the BDP1 would not be sufficient enough for streaming audio? And making it the ultimate streamer too!

You have stated repeatedly that you feel the continuous data-flow and its problems on the net, or even over ethernet, would be not up to the standards for Bryston.

If a NAS could be connected over the ethernet to the BDP1, wouldn't the same buffering sizes be sufficient as they are now, with a HDD USB connection? Internet-stream could be more of an issue I guess, but since most stations have lower rate streams, I would assume the BDP buffers to be large enough for that too?

Or would you need much bigger buffers for that?

Marius

I can not see how the size of the drive or the speed could affect the BDP-1 because it uses a buffer on the input.

james

[James Tanner]

HI James,

Since we're on the topic of buffering, could you please explain why that design in the BDP1 would not be sufficient enough for streaming audio? And making it the ultimate streamer too!

You have stated repeatedly that you feel the continuous data-flow and its problems on the net, or even over ethernet, would be not up to the standards for Bryston.

If a NAS could be connected over the ethernet to the BDP1, wouldn't the same buffering sizes be sufficient as they are now, with a HDD USB connection? Internet-stream could be more of an issue I guess, but since most stations have lower rate streams, I would assume the BDP buffers to be large enough for that too?

Or would you need much bigger buffers for that?

Marius

Hi Marius,

Boy that's a Chris question for sure but I think it is because the buffering is done at the USB inputs not the Ethernet input

james

[SamKVA]

HI James,

Since we're on the topic of buffering, could you please explain why that design in the BDP1 would not be sufficient enough for streaming audio? And making it the ultimate streamer too!

You have stated repeatedly that you feel the continuous data-flow and its problems on the net, or even over ethernet, would be not up to the standards for Bryston.

If a NAS could be connected over the ethernet to the BDP1, wouldn't the same buffering sizes be sufficient as they are now, with a HDD USB connection? Internet-stream could be more of an issue I guess, but since most stations have lower rate streams, I would assume the BDP buffers to be large enough for that too?

Or would you need much bigger buffers for that?

Marius

Look at all the issues PS Audio has had with their Perfect Wave DAC/Bridge. I owned one and it's a beautiful sounding piece of equipment. However, the streaming piece is apparently a lot more difficult to perfect. My pleasure in the sound from the PWD is what ultimately led me to the BDP-1 as nothing I tried in between came close. What pushed me over the edge on the BDP-1 was how well I can integrate it with my HT processor.

I am as thrilled with what the BDP-1 does as I am with what it doesn't do. The fact that it doesn't rely on a $30 home router to play beautiful music is a real plus in my book. Remember, you can access the drives connected to the BDP-1 from a computer to help with music management.

Sam

[Marius]

Hi,

Just to let all of the contributors to my initial question know, that in my particular (have to be careful here) setting, there was no beneficial effect or result whatsoever in comparing the stock Usb cable to the Audioquest Forest between the Usb input on the BDA1 and the Mac usb out.

Both did sound just as fine.

This particular usage lead me to another question, but since that is not Bryston related, I posted it in the Applecore circle, and has to do with either streaming form the iPad to Apple tv, optically connected to the BDA1, which sounds better than the USb connection from the Macbook to the BDA1.

If you think you can help me with that, please look in the AppleCore.

Thanks!
Marius

[Music Matters]

I thought I'd jump in regarding my experience thus far. I am using thumb drives as well as a 240gb SSD. The SSD of course is tethered to the BDP-1 with a short USB cable. I have found that the same WAV or uncompressed FLAC files have slightly better bass response and I would say overall slightly better dynamic range via the thumb drive as opposed to the USB cable-connected SSD. This leads me to conclude that the USB cable does make a difference. I am interested in comments. I know what I am hearing, so this is not a snake oil issue. Anyone tried Kimber's USB cable between your SSD or HDD and the BDP-1? Thanks!!

[skunark]

Basically you are stirring the pot on the debate.
If you have your SSD HDD connected along with the thumb drive, then I would say do the test again and ask others to listen as well.   If you don't keep the SSD connected while you are using the thumb drive, then perhaps it's noisy and would question if you are using a wall wart.
The 1s and 0s don't turn into a PCM audio stream until it hits the sound card, and the linux MPD/ALSA doesn't care where the data comes from just as long as it's safely copied to system memory.  If the data isn't safely copied weird things will start to happen and the drive will unmount indicating a pending failure.   At the sound card, the PCM audio stream is still 1s and 0s but jitter is now introduced, so the sound card clock, the BNC/AES output drives, and beyond will impact the quality.      If you have a cheap/noisy wall-wart connected to the SSD then that could explain the difference, but that is assuming there's no isolation between the SSD and the BDP (or BDP and sound card output) and also no isolation between the SSD and the power outlet.   

[Music Matters]

Thanks, skunark, for the discussion. I guess I am a pot stirrer!! Intuitively, I agree with everything you said. However, my ears and my wife's ears (with no prompting from me) still come to the same conclusion. Bass response and dynamic range is slightly better with the thumb drive versus the external USB SSD. Same WAV or uncompressed FLAC tracks ripped by the same CD drive to my laptop, then copied directly to the thumb drive or USB SSD. I am using a USB powered external SSD. The SSD and the thumb drive are both left connected to the BDP-1 at the same time, with the SSD using the lower rear port and the thumb drive using one of the front ports. Those are my findings, but the mystery remains. I will continue to fiddle with it. Stay tuned for further developments. I am interested in further discussion. Thanks!!

[jaapnr1]

Couldn't say it better than this... very clear explanation!

Basically you are stirring the pot on the debate.
If you have your SSD HDD connect along with the thumb drive, then I would say do the test again and ask others to listen as well.   If you don't keep the SSD connected while you are using the thumb drive, then perhaps it's noisy and would question if you are using a wall wart.
The 1s and 0s don't turn into a PCM audio stream until it hits the sound card, and the linux MPD/ALSA doesn't care where the data comes from just as long as it's safely copied to system memory.  If the data isn't safely copied weird things will start to happen and the drive will unmount indicating a pending failure.   At the sound card, the PCM audio stream is still 1s and 0s but jitter is now introduced, so the sound card clock, the BNC/AES output drives, and beyond will impact the quality.      If you have a cheap/noising wall-wart connected to the SSD then that could explain the difference, but that is assuming there's no isolation between the SSD and the BDP (or BDP and sound card output) and also SSD and the power outlet.

[adol290]

I have also noticed that dynamic range is slightly better with a thumb drive versus an external USB drive.

In my case I am using a Western Digital Mybook. But, since mine is an actual motor driven disk, it
 probably has more effect on noise.