[drphoto]

I never see these bad boys discussed.

Anyone heard them and care to comment?

[sharper]

I never see these bad boys discussed.

Anyone heard them and care to comment?

If you're asking because of the pair listed on audiogon...it won't be an apples to apples comparison with the stock SE. That guy did a lot of work to them. On paper, I like his changes.

Anyway, the stock SE features a vertical ribbon tweeter (not spiral) and carbon fiber woofers and mid. I traded in my VMPS Tower II/R's back in 1993 for the SE's and had them for 8 years before trading the SE's for RM2 Neos. I used the SE's somewhat sparingly compared to the Tower II/R's which I'd had for four years because the speakers were too big for some of the apartments I was in.

The Tower II SE's and the Tower II/R's shared the same tweeter (as far as I know) but the SE had the "more advanced" mid and bass drivers. While I'd like to say I loved the SE as much or more than the T2R...I can't really.  I didn't notice any dramatic increase in resolution in the mids over the T2R's and I found the bass to be tight but kind of anal compared to the polypro woofers on the T2R. My taste in music was largely classic rock though...so I valued the bass power that the T2R produced - tight and powerful.  The SE was more refined in its presentation of the music. The mids were more neutral than those on the T2R. The T2R mids were warmer and very enjoyable but not as timbrally accurate. The reduction in bass power, for some, would have meant a better balanced speaker. Not as bass heavy. That may have been Brian's goal with the SE...I don't know. IMHO, the SE is/was more of an audiophile speaker than a rock and jazz speaker like the T2R.

Expect the T2SE to be an open (not muffled), balanced, and powerful speaker which can go down very low but won't push the HUGE amounts of air as its forebearer.  Good with high powered solid state amp (Nelson Pass Threshold is a good choice here) and tube preamp. It's not a bright speaker at all but I think tubes are necessary somewhere in the chain with the SE.

This was my experience. I'd be interested to read what other (ex-)owners have to say.

[drphoto]

Sharper.....yep, that pair on AG was the basis of my question. (no wonder you're called sharper   )

[Q]

If you're asking because of the pair listed on audiogon...it won't be an apples to apples comparison with the stock SE. That guy did a lot of work to them. On paper, I like his changes.

Anyway, the stock SE features a vertical ribbon tweeter (not spiral) and carbon fiber woofers and mid. I traded in my VMPS Tower II/R's back in 1993 for the SE's and had them for 8 years before trading the SE's for RM2 Neos. I used the SE's somewhat sparingly compared to the Tower II/R's which I'd had for four years because the speakers were too big for some of the apartments I was in.

The Tower II SE's and the Tower II/R's shared the same tweeter (as far as I know) but the SE had the "more advanced" mid and bass drivers. While I'd like to say I loved the SE as much or more than the T2R...I can't really.  I didn't notice any dramatic increase in resolution in the mids over the T2R's and I found the bass to be tight but kind of anal compared to the polypro woofers on the T2R. My taste in music was largely classic rock though...so I valued the bass power that the T2R produced - tight and powerful.  The SE was more refined in its presentation of the music. The mids were more neutral than those on the T2R. The T2R mids were warmer and very enjoyable but not as timbrally accurate. The reduction in bass power, for some, would have meant a better balanced speaker. Not as bass heavy. That may have been Brian's goal with the SE...I don't know. IMHO, the SE is/was more of an audiophile speaker than a rock and jazz speaker like the T2R.

Expect the T2SE to be an open (not muffled), balanced, and powerful speaker which can go down very low but won't push the HUGE amounts of air as its forebearer.  Good with high powered solid state amp (Nelson Pass Threshold is a good choice here) and tube preamp. It's not a bright speaker at all but I think tubes are necessary somewhere in the chain with the SE.

This was my experience. I'd be interested to read what other (ex-)owners have to say.[/quote]

Curious if you have had a chance to hear the RM40, and how you would compare their ability to play Jazz/rock compared to the t2r.  
Thanks
Q

[sharper]

Curious if you have had a chance to hear the RM40, and how you would compare their ability to play Jazz/rock compared to the t2r.  
Thanks
Q

I've listened to the RM40s a few times. They're way beyond the T2R. It's not close. They are so much more detailed. The mids are very clear, open and transparent; the bass is quick and tight. The T2R's will seem too bass heavy and somewhat muffled by comparison but still enjoyable for sure. What's great about the 40's is that they do the audiophile things well but don't sound like an audiophile speaker...they don't fall apart with very dynamic music...so you're not left listening to only Patricia Barber, African flute solos, and a Latvian boys choir.

So for rock and jazz, the 40's will play loud and very clear with excellent bass punch...but not be polite or harsh...and can provide a you are there experience.  The T2R's will play very loud, somewhat clear with awesome bass power.

For day in day out listening, the RM40 is the choice. It's a no brainer (once you've heard them)...BUT if I could only do one more air guitar solo, I would go with the T2R's...they're a blast.

[Q]

Curious if you have had a chance to hear the RM40, and how you would compare their ability to play Jazz/rock compared to the t2r.  
Thanks
Q

I've listened to the RM40s a few times. They're way beyond the T2R. It's not close. They are so much more detailed. The mids are very clear, open and transparent; the bass is quick and tight. The T2R's will seem too bass heavy and somewhat muffled by comparison but still enjoyable for sure. What's great about the 40's is that they do the audiophile things well but don't sound like an audiophile speaker...they don't fall apart with very dynamic music...so you're not left listening to only Patricia Barber, African flute solos, and a Latvian boys choir.

So for rock and jazz, the 40's will play loud and very clear with excellent bass punch...but not be polite or harsh...and can provide a you are there experience.  The T2R's will play very loud, somewhat clear with awesome bass power.

For day in day out listening, the RM40 is the choice. It's a no brainer (once you've heard them)...BUT if I could only do one more air guitar solo, I would go with the T2R's...they're a blast.

Thanks...I did hear very breifly the T2 in the same room with the RM40...and there was no comparison in the detail and resolution and smoothness, but I'm still not 100% convinced enuf to write that check.  Its the upper bass thing (see my previous posts).  I'm just a gnats hair from ordering!!!!...Somebody push me over the edge before I lose more money in the stock market!!!
Q

[Tyson]

It's all in the tuning.  Overdamp the woofer, you get more upper and mid bass.  As you remove more and more mass, the lower bass gets stronger and the upper/mid bass lessens.  Just flavor it to taste. . .

[drphoto]

Sometimes I just wish I had some 'party' speakers that could rock the house. These might fit the bill.

I could keep them hidden when my polite 'audiophile' friends visit...

[sharper]

Hey drphoto,
              Thought I'd pass this on...I took another look at that listing on audiogon for the T2SE. He indicates or gives the impression that the carbon fiber woofers and mid with phase plugs are upgrades. They were standard on the SE. I guess they could be considered as upgrades to the regular Tower II..if that's what he means. I remember the big ass phase plugs. They were scary. The inverted Focal dome was standard as well. I seem to remember mine being yellow.  The ad also mentions the internal wire being Monster...well, that was standard too...speaker wire is Goertz...is he including the speaker wire?

If you're interested in these speakers, I would confirm with the seller and Brian what is upgraded on the speakers and what is just standard for the SE.

Scott

[F-100]

I've a pair of Super Tower/R Special Edition that have the following configuration: 15” poly and 10” woven carbon fiber active woofers, 15” passive, dual 6” planar mids, dual 1” domes, ribbon supertweeter. I'm the second owner and the speakers are about 4 years old. As for the sound, these speaker can produce some monster bass.  I mean it will rock the house, definitely it's an ideal speaker for the "Party Animal" .  My speaker had the Focal T-120 fiberglass hard dome and one of them was broken when I got it and I had a hard time locating one. From my understanding, these tweeters are no longer in production but I was able to find the a different version (titanium hard dome) to replace it.

[nathanm]

You guys better knock it off, you're gonna end up making me buy these speakers with all this talk of "monster bass" and all!   It's a good thing the Tower IIs are relatively ugly, or I would jump on them in a heartbeat!  No offense folks, it's just that they're...rectangular.  Although in Piano Black maybe you could get a menacing, 'it's-full-of-stars' thing happening.  Hmmm...

Is it just me or is the Tower II not listed in the price sheet?  I didn't see it in there.

[Troy]

I just purchased a pr T2 20 yr edition Couple of months ago from Brian. Maybe the RM 40 are better but for $1600 ( tweeter upgrade ) the T2's are great.  I believe ribbons are great for classical, and jazz, but R&B and gospel with bass synth, sounds little wierd. That's why I chose the T2.  I coould be wrong but it's all about taste. I must admit I have not heard any of the RM's yet. But budget would not let me anyway.

[warnerwh]

Troy, I have same mids as you on my speakers. If something sounds too odd it's likely you don't have the damping and/or positioning right.  Very important is the damping of the passive radiator.  After two months they should be broken in.  It's amazing how much difference the sound is with the damping adjustments.

[Troy]

I should have been a bit clearer. When I mentioned ribbons sounding wierd I meant ribbon/planar in general. Not the ribbons in the T2. My point is I am a little concerned with the sound of a full ribbon system. I own a pair maggies. They sound great when I play Miles Davis. Not so great with George Clinton and the P-Funk all-stars.  The TowerII's for me does both styles of music very well, which is not common for Hi-end speakers.  So, when I considered spending the dough on new speakers I didn't want that thin, or that razor sharp sound that many people like. I was looking for something "FAT".  That's why I went to VMPS TowerII. Remembering them from CES over 11 yrs ago. Or maybe before then. Probably more information than expected. As for pulling putty, I hate it. But I knew what I was geeting into well before I bought the speakers. It does make a difference. Even my 8 your old daughter can tell. She helped me tune them just incase I thought I was fooling myself with each pull.