AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Omega Speaker Systems => Topic started by: Dave Jameson on 31 Oct 2014, 04:50 pm
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Hi all,
I often come across threads and posts about which amp and speaker wire combination is best suited for an Omega (or Hoyt Bedford) speaker and I can't help but think we've all forgotten about the importance of the quality of the source. Let's forget the analogue vs digital debate for now and focus on DACs (Digital to Analogue Converters for those who are new to hifi). It seems to me that a lot of AudioCircle members and Omega owners are pretty literate with the new digital revolution and I suspect we all have some invaluable insight to offer.
So far, with the Omega Super 3XRS and Hoyt Bedford 1.5, my favourite has been the Simaudio Neo380D with their MiND streamer built in. The sound was rich throughout the midband, very extended and sweet up top (I think this is where a lot of systems miss-step with the Super 3XRS, imo). I've also had the pleasure to listen to the Wavelength Audio Cosecant 32 bit DAC. It was very fast and not as "tube like" in my system as many would expect. Definitely super dynamic! :) The Sim Neo 380D was probably a little sweeter if not quite as open sounding in comparison.
Oh and while we're at it, computer music player program recommendations are always helpful too :)
Have at it boys and girls!
DJ
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I went from Schiit Bifrost to a Sony HAP-Z1ES music server and the Sony makes the Bifrost sound kinda Schitty in comparison but it's also 4x the price. I doubt you'll find a better bang for the buck than the Sony as it doesn't require a computer to run server software or need a USB cable.
The Omega speakers can produce world-class results but they need a world-class source and everything else to do it, GIGO... :green:
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My reference DAC has been and still is the Peter Daniel NOS non-filtered Phillips TDA1543 based USB DAC. It is hand made in Canada and built like an Omega speaker. It follows the 47 Lab way of thinking. It's sound is analog, warm and full, 3 dimensional, detailed, with a lot of weight. It works well with any Omega or Hoyt Bedford, new and old. I have run it with SET, PP, gain clone, discrete A/B, and MOSFET, all with great results.
Running a second to the Peter Daniel and about half the price, is the KingRex UD01 USB DAC with PSU MKII and XLR power connection. If I wanted T-Bone steak sound on a hamburger budget, this is what I would seriously consider.
Some people may think I am a member of the flat earth society but no DACs I have heard (or even CD players) do 16/44 (which makes up about 95% of digital music available today) like these DACs.
Almost all my impressions of these DACs have been through highly resolved systems using Omega or Hoyt-Bedford Speakers.
My music players are iTunes and Pure Music on a MacBook that is configured for playing music and nothing else.
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I had the chance to listen to the Sony HAP-Z1ES at the SSI 2014 in the Sony room...so with all Sony gear! I was shocked! Seems to be a very friendly and excellent sounding product.
DaveC113, would you say the HAP-Z1ES is tonally dense with Omegas? Getting those single drivers to sound as big as a 3-way speaker isn't easy, so would you say the Sony allows for a bigger--more phase coherent--sound and soundstage? This was another area where I found Simaudio's Neo380D to excell.
I want to say the reason people shy away from digital (and solid state amps, for that matter) is because a lot of DACs on the market are not phase coherent and sound "glassy". Again, not something I, albeit briefly, experienced with the Sony. For those unaware, a crossover-less speaker like an Omega has no way of hiding phase incoherencies in either the recording or electronics and will simply sound bad.
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For those unaware, a crossover-less speaker like an Omega has no way of hiding phase incoherencies in either the recording or electronics and will simply sound bad.
I totally agree. Omegas and Hoyts reveal everything up line; from amps, sources, cabling, and AC power, and yes, on the downside (if you can call it that) they will not gloss over a poor recording either. On the upside, if you are into tube rolling, the tube changes can be very noticeable.
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Rob
can you post a link to the Peter Daniel NOS non-filtered Phillips TDA1543 based USB DAC. I cant seem to find it for some reason
thank you in advance
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I use a Van Alstine vision hybrid dac with my omegas and I love it. I only have this dac so no other one that I can compare it too.
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I had the Audio Note Kits Dac 2.1b Sig. with my Omega XRS Alnico 8 speakers, and with other speakers. Unfortunately I had to sell the dac due to an unexpected financial need. :duh: Wish I still had it! :cry: If your not into building one Digital Pete will at a reasonable price.
Chris
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Rob
can you post a link to the Peter Daniel NOS non-filtered Phillips TDA1543 based USB DAC. I cant seem to find it for some reason
thank you in advance
Hello Guillaume,
To my knowledge the Peter Daniel (Audio Sector) DAC is no longer available. For a few years he offered them as a basic kit where one added their own power supply, casework, etc. He also built some himself complete, using higher grade parts such as Black Gate caps instead of the stock Panasonic. My DAC is one built by him with the higher grade parts and first rate casework (see pictures).
This link http://www.audio-zone.ca/dac.html (http://www.audio-zone.ca/dac.html) is to the Audio Zone DAC 1 which I have also had, and it may still be available. If I had no Peter Daniel DAC, I would have this one. Peter provided the guts to Audio Zone who put them into their own casework. It uses the Panasonic CAPS and standard parts, but is still a killer piece. Six Moons reviewed it, and the reviewer bought the review sample - better than a Blue Moon award. Even though the Audio Zone website doesn't show it, the DAC 1 can be ordered with USB input.
You might also check Canuck Audio Mart or Audiogon for used ones.
Audio Sector DAC
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107911)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107912)
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I had the chance to listen to the Sony HAP-Z1ES at the SSI 2014 in the Sony room...so with all Sony gear! I was shocked! Seems to be a very friendly and excellent sounding product.
DaveC113, would you say the HAP-Z1ES is tonally dense with Omegas? Getting those single drivers to sound as big as a 3-way speaker isn't easy, so would you say the Sony allows for a bigger--more phase coherent--sound and soundstage? This was another area where I found Simaudio's Neo380D to excell.
It's pretty amazing and could probably go up against many DACs in the under $5k range. I also had an Auralic Vega DAC ($3500) to test and the Sony is just as good. My system is single ended and the Vega will sound better balanced so if you convert the Vega's balanced to single ended using a trafo you'll get better results but now it's 2x+ the cost of the Sony, a computer and USB cable are still required. It's pretty hard to fault the Sony in any way except when I first got it it had a very accurate SS sound, not in a bad way, but the last couple firmware upgrades have made it sound very natural and more relaxed... it's hard to tell what the output stage is now, could be a very good tube or SS, you wouldn't know until you look. It's dual mono and the separation and imaging are far better then the Bifrost it replaced, the Sony makes the Omegas throw a huge soundstage and imaging is very precise. I think the last firmware upgrades are providing a similar sound to the tube output stages developed by Red Wine and Modwright, at first I could see using a tube output stage but now it's very close to perfect and i have no plans to upgrade it at all.
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thanks Rob for this link to the AudioZone site. Reading the reviews, you would think this is a sect of fanatical devotees. If I didnt have to pay for tuition, I might jump and get a system from them. Their units look very nice too.
Has anyone on this forum used their preamps/amps with Omega speakers to listen to Dub or Roots Reggae or Disco and Funk?
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I use a Scott Nixon DAC with very good results.
"Has anyone on this forum used their preamps/amps with Omega speakers to listen to Dub or Roots Reggae or Disco and Funk?"
I play Disco, Funk, Latin Funk, Zydeco, House, all to good effect.
Omega Speakers make it easy to follow the rhythm of the Music.
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I've used a both a Rega DAC and McIntosh D100 with my Omega RS7.
The Rega DAC makes things warm and cuddly and does not have the best retrieval of information, but its musical and forgiving on bad recordings. The weakness of this DAC is that it can only do 24/96 resolution via USB, thus if wanting to play higher res files you need to use a USB/SPDIF converter (I use the Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 with it). IMO Rega lacks behind in their tech for DACs and there are better choices out there for the money. For instance they are releasing a new DAC that finally can play asynchronous 192 files via USB (which was already common to other vendor's DACs prior to releasing their first DAC). Now they are just releasing a 192 asynch version, but it can't do anything other than play 192 files and which most recently released DACs out there on the market are already playing DSD and DXD with being capable of even a lot higher sample rates. I realize that there's not much out there at that resolution at this time, but it's not really ready for the future.
The D100 is better at detail retrieval and more accurate, yet also very musical and IMO the analog section is excellent with the best out there at it's price level. The D100 can also be used as a Preamp (if you don't have any analog sources) as well as it comes with a remote and has enough inputs for most people's digital needs (it even makes cable TV sound good). If I had to say it has one weakness, I think they should have implemented at least one fully analog input (for us vinyl guys), I think this would have been a product of the year if they had done that.
They both have their strengths, but I much prefer the D100 as I like all the inner detail and resolution retrieval it provides, it's flexibility and much more refined sound, but it retails at 2x the price of the Rega so it should be better.
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Omega fans seeking DAC bliss; Check out the Bottlehead DAC which is being crowd-funded at the BH site.
http://bottlehead.com/product/bottlehead-dac/
The first forty units are underway, and the process is explained in some detail at the BH site. I have mine on order and should see it early in January. Will report on sound then, via my re-drivered Super 5's.
Cheers, Hank
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Omega fans seeking DAC bliss; Check out the Bottlehead DAC which is being crowd-funded at the BH site.
http://bottlehead.com/product/bottlehead-dac/
The first forty units are underway, and the process is explained in some detail at the BH site. I have mine on order and should see it early in January. Will report on sound then, via my re-drivered Super 5's.
Cheers, Hank
Hank - I'm a little curious...on the re-driver (Super 5's), you changed from the RS5?
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Hank - I'm a little curious...on the re-driver (Super 5's), you changed from the RS5?
The Super 5 Monitor had the HempCone driver. Hank re-drivered his Super 5s with the RS5, essentially updating his speakers to Super 3U status.
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I'm really holding out for the Schiit Yggdrasil. I love closed form R2R DACs like some of the super high end ones from the 90s, especially when they aren't priced over 10k (I think MSRP will be about 2-2.3k on the Yggdrasil, which is a bargain, especially considering the technology is way better than it was in the 90s).
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Canada Rob:
I'm getting back to you on the AudioZone DAC. I should have checked earlier, but didnt pay attention I guess. I read that it's capable of handling 32, 44, 48kHz files. What happens when it is fed with files with higher khz, like 96, or 192kHz files?
And what about 24bit files, which are often used for hi-rez audio stuff?
Would one need to re-encode such files down to 44-16 to be playable through this DAC? Which would be a bummer and a huge waste of time to re-encode...
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Canada Rob:
I'm getting back to you on the AudioZone DAC. I should have checked earlier, but didnt pay attention I guess. I read that it's capable of handling 32, 44, 48kHz files. What happens when it is fed with files with higher khz, like 96, or 192kHz files?
And what about 24bit files, which are often used for hi-rez audio stuff?
Would one need to re-encode such files down to 44-16 to be playable through this DAC? Which would be a bummer and a huge waste of time to re-encode...
The Audio Zone DAC 1 will play any resolution file, it will just down sample it to the lower resolution.
I like this DAC for these reasons:
1) How well it does CD quality files - better than any digital source I have heard.
2) 16/44 still makes up the vast (and most affordable) majority of digital music on the market.
3) With CD quality streaming services beginning to show up, this DAC makes more sense than ever before.
However.....Resonessnce Labs has sent me a Herus+ and Concero HD to try out. Maybe they will topple the Audio Zone DAC 1 (and my very similar Audio Sector DAC) from it's podium. So far no DAC I have tried has, but that could change. Stay tuned.
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ok, so as long as it does not become silent when encountering higher rez files than 44/16, and I can hear music, I guess that's cool!
Thanks CR
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Has anyone heard the PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Omegas (or any speakers)?
Expen$ive as-all-get-out but owners of it say it is almost the last word in extracting detail from 44/16 material. It upsamples PCM to 10xDSD then downsamples to 2xDSD before a simple passive output filter. I've been talking with the designer who is convinced of DSD's intrinsic natural sound quality.
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However.....Resonessnce Labs has sent me a Herus+ and Concero HD to try out. Maybe they will topple the Audio Zone DAC 1 (and my very similar Audio Sector DAC) from it's podium. So far no DAC I have tried has, but that could change. Stay tuned.
First I tried the Herus+ with IEMs and then on my main reference system.
For a tiny little USB powered DAC/amp/preamp selling for a little over 400 bucks it's amazing, and the closest to my reference DAC I recall hearing. I don't recall hearing these IEMs sound as good as heard on the Herus+. The headstage is big, noise and hiss 0, sound is detailed and liquid without any harshness, and midrange is perfection. It will drive IEMs to big hard to drive cans no problem.
In the stereo system the Herus+ also shone. The sonic qualities are similar to the IEMs, with big soundstage, and....incredible bottom end. Imaging is 3D, and generally, it's sonic qualities nipping at the heals of my more expensive reference DAC.
Here is what the Herus+ is: USB DAC/headphone amp for computer, DAC/headphone amp that will take the digital out of an iPod, iPhone, iPad, or Android for a killer portable headphone rig or physically tiny front end for a home stereo system, and a DAC preamp for a home stereo. It will handle 16/44 to DXD. It has it's own volume control and three selectable filters, along with a power saving mode. It's analog output is 2.4 volts.
Build quality (machined out of a solid chunk of aluminum) is off the charts, and it is designed and built right here in the Okanagan valley in B.C.
See link: http://resonessencelabs.com/herus-2/ (http://resonessencelabs.com/herus-2/)
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I had the Audio Note Kits Dac 2.1b Sig. with my Omega XRS Alnico 8 speakers, and with other speakers. Unfortunately I had to sell the dac due to an unexpected financial need. :duh: Wish I still had it! :cry: If your not into building one Digital Pete will at a reasonable price.
Chris
Before sinking a ton of bux into a solid state DAC, be sure and audition a tube dac in your setup. I think you might be surprised at how it can transform a system. I use the Audio Note 3.1 built by Digital Pete.
Also have the benchmark solid state dac. Far too analytical for my ears especially with the Omegas.
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Add another really good sounding DAC to my favorites list. The Resonessence labs Concero HD. It can be controlled by an Apple remote to do all sorts of things. It can be powered by USB, wall power USB, and battery. What I like about the Concero HD and the Herus+ is their musicality at the bit rates I've tried. A lot of the "modern" DACs don't do 16/44 well - these do.
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Agreed that current DAC design has been chasing higher formats, yet most of our music is still Redbook, so Redbook sound quality is what I primarily look for. Couple of off the beaten path recommendations (not specific to Omega):
Halide Design DAC HD: $450 with captive high quality USB (up to 7 meters long) and RCA cables; tiny custom milled aluminum enclosure; simple (no drivers/plug-n-play, displays, or controls); 24 bit/96 kHz; 2014 Stereophile Class A rated; asynchronous design, uses Gordon Rankin's (of Wavelength) Streamlength protocol to reduce jitter. The sound: seductive/smooth; ease/purity; deep/agile bass; not dry/ruthless; delicacy with power; an ideal balance between resolution and tone; analog/organic; does a good job of imaging and expressing the original space.
dB Audio Tranquility DAC: $1500 USB/RCA only; Eric has optimized for the Mini and will share "secrets" to tweak setup; all the buzz (48 pages) for this NOS unit started in the Critic's Circle 5 years ago, but if smooth/analog with slightly rolled off highs is your bag, its still hard to beat (Redbook only).
Chord Hugo: $2450, small custom milled aluminum enclosure for this portable DAC/headphone amp; handles all formats (even Bluetooth) via unique and superior Chord FPGA circuits versus simple off the shelf DAC chips; from professional reviews it even handedly does amazing detail, texture, timbre, tactile, speed, natural tone, transparency, layered imaging, holographic soundstage, dynamics with masterful "rightness", clarity, precision, bass control, rich/present midrange, treble delicately extended without grain or excess (makes Redbook sound more like hi-res). Comparable sound quality DACs (without headphone amp or being portable) start north of $5000.
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This may be a bit off the original posters intent but thought I would share. A Naim-Audio Uniti-Qute at $2300 can kill a couple things in one fell swoop, amplification and DAC. While I know most prefer tubes and also the ability to have separate amp and DAC, I would think the Qute would work extremely well with the Hoyt and maybe also the Omegas in general. Worth a shot, as I know someone that has tried this and I trust his ears. Everyone's mileage varies though...
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There are getting to be quite a few amp/DACs coming on the market and they're usually compact in dimensions. What would be nice is if they could take the straight digital out of an iPhone, Pod, Pad, Android etc. Maybe they can, I don't know. NAD, PS Audio, Denon, Micromega, Sony, Wyred 4 Sound, and no doubt others are making these cool little combos. Features like preamp, headphone amp, phono stage, and Bluetooth are in some of them too. Most are relatively low powered and would likely make a nice mate for Omega speakers. I also love their compact dimensions, often eliminating the need of an audio rack with all it's unsightly gubbins. An affordable, very compact, and very high performance front end for a pair of Omegas would be the Resonessence Labs Herus+ being fed directly by an iPod, etc into a Decware Super Zen. The whole front end could fit on a little shelf almost out of sight - nice lifestyle system.
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Rob,
Almost all USB DAC's can take audio from tablets and phones if the OS allows it. In IOS devices, the Camera Connection Kit allows USB connection and in Android the latest release generally allows USB connection. What I have found that most USB DAC's work without added drivers with all Apple products, with drivers in Windows products, without drivers in some Android products, and not at all with Chromebooks.
While I appreciate the compact, all-in-one nature of DAC/Amps (I personally own an NAD D3020, which is an excellent amp/dac) as a hobbyist and one who frequently upgrades I have found that separating the DAC and Amp sections not only protects me against obsolescence or failure of one component, it allows me to pick and choose precisely the devices I want in my system(s).
The NAD D3020 serves as a great all-in-one solution for driving a pair of Dynaco A25XL's in my living room, while my main listening rig is more specific - Apple mini - DB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Custom SE 421A amp - Omega Super 3i speakers. While the NAD/Dynaco combo sounds better than 99% of the systems present in the typical US household, it is a far cry from my main system and I don't get to "play" with it as much.
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Rob,
Almost all USB DAC's can take audio from tablets and phones if the OS allows it. In IOS devices, the Camera Connection Kit allows USB connection and in Android the latest release generally allows USB connection. What I have found that most USB DAC's work without added drivers with all Apple products, with drivers in Windows products, without drivers in some Android products, and not at all with Chromebooks.
While I appreciate the compact, all-in-one nature of DAC/Amps (I personally own an NAD D3020, which is an excellent amp/dac) as a hobbyist and one who frequently upgrades I have found that separating the DAC and Amp sections not only protects me against obsolescence or failure of one component, it allows me to pick and choose precisely the devices I want in my system(s).
The NAD D3020 serves as a great all-in-one solution for driving a pair of Dynaco A25XL's in my living room, while my main listening rig is more specific - Apple mini - DB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Custom SE 421A amp - Omega Super 3i speakers. While the NAD/Dynaco combo sounds better than 99% of the systems present in the typical US household, it is a far cry from my main system and I don't get to "play" with it as much.
Thanks Roscoe, good information.
With the popularity of USB DACs like the Resonessence Labs Concero which is USB powered, it would be nice to run it with an iPod etc. KingRex makes a (rather pricey)standard size USB "Y" cable that splits power and digital signal, so the KingRex UPower battery or Bakoon BPS-02 battery could power the DAC from their 5V female USB outlets. It would make for a compact and potent front end. The Resonessnce Labs Herus and Herus+ will do the above without the need for an extra battery - it will run off the iPods, Pads, Phones, Androids own battery.
As far as the all in one amps go, I'm totally with you. They are about convenience with good sound, certainly not in the class of a good reference system, and yes, I like my components separate too. BTW, it looks like your main system is very nice.
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Rob says: "As far as the all in one amps go, I'm totally with you. They are about convenience with good sound, certainly not in the class of a good reference system, and yes, I like my components separate too."
I would say a lot of us do appreciate our separates system, but really, what is a "good reference system"? I have found that often times some of these "all-in-ones" do as good of a job if not better in some aspects than some megabuck rigs. Not that money, overall power, etc. has anything to do with it either, but....Like I said, everyones mileage differs, but I wouldn't overlook some of these setups.
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Tim, I would tend to agree with you if it were not for three things:
1. I once had a great little Denon all-in-one system that came with pair of Mission Speakers. Compact, great sound for what it was. Then the CD player stopped working. I was then left with a smallish amp that I had to plug a separate CD player into to make work. I've since decided to really limit the number of functions stuffed into one box. My NAD D3020 violates this rule but I wanted a nice set-it-and-forget it system for casual listening.
2. I can put together a "reference quality" rig for much cheaper than going for a all-in-one system. The number of people making high end combo units is very limited, and for the sound quality I desire beyond what I am willing to spend.
3. No one manufacturer makes precisely the sort of system that I want. That means a purist NOS DAC with a SE Tube amp. Some manufacturers make a similar product but not to the level I want. As it stands, apart from the computer serving files to my main rig, I would not be reducing many components. My main rig comprises a server, a DAC, and a single-input amp with a volume control, and a pair of speakers. I will likely add a subwoofer but the system is pretty compact already.
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Hi Tim,
Good post. What is a good reference system? A good question. Basically one that you have by which you judge all others that you hear, and that compares closest to a live performance. Usually it will have all components separate for the sake of flexability (ie: changing/tweeking DAC, phono stage, interconnects, etc, etc.) which you don't have with the all in ones.
Done right, with proper component choice, cable matching, and room acoustics, a "reference" type system is likely to trounce a system based on one of these usually very affordable all in one amps. When you say "your mileage may vary" you are totally correct, because taste IS involved.
I hope my post was not misunderstood as being down on all in ones - far from it - I've recommended quite a few on here. Case in point: a customer bought some Super 3is from me and played them on his expensive MacIntosh front end. He then got a PS Audio sprout and liked it better with those speakers than with the Mac gear. In other posts I have raved over how good the Audio Engine N22 amp/D1 DAC combo sounded with Super 3is, and that rig is likely lower on the food chain than a NAD 3020D, PS Audio Sprout, etc.
Here is the advantage of the all in one amps: 1) all the internal components are matched to each other. 2) less cables to buy, not to mention connection length between internal components is almost zero. 3) very aesthetically pleasing, compact, and easy to install. 4) sound value for dollar is very high. Roscoe mentioned some of the downside so I will leave that alone.
That said, take one of the pricier all in ones like the Wyred for sound mINT @ reg $1500 (on sale right now at $1099) and compare it to a very compact "separates" front end like a basic Decware Super Zen amp, Resonessence Labs Herus+ USB DAC, and one of the great little phono stages out there for around $400, and go with very basic cabling. Yes 25%+ more money, but the core of what I would term an entry level reference system with incredible flexibility, yet very compact. The Super Zen has two inputs, bias switch to change the sound, and many different brands of tubes can be used to tailor its sound. The Herus+ DAC/headphone amp/preamp will work with a computer, iPod, iPad, iPhone, Android using the portables power, it also has low power mode, user selectable upsampling filters, plays 16/44 to DXD. It's a fabulous headphone amp and will drive some of the hardest to drive headphones, and lastly it's a preamp for a home system. The Graham Slee Gram Amp II SE at around $400 is a KILLER phono stage for the money and likely has a cult following. It's been on the market for years, like the Decware Zen amps. Match this front end with any current Omega and you will have a system trouncing ones much more expensive.
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Roscoe, your points well made and certainly valid! And Rob, no, I didn't take it wrong, but it did give me pause to think about the "reference system" part of it.
In the end, the only answer for the OP is what sounds good to the OP and works for them. I think we all have ideas on what is or what can be called a reference system, and probably it could be miles apart depending on each person.
Anyway, onward and forward!
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By the way, I am also planning to purchase Peter Daniel's DAC (Audio Zone, Audio Sector) - and I think the best way to get more details about the DAC is to email him at: phdaniel@sympatico.ca
He is quite prompt at replying emails and answered the few questions I had as well. He sells his DAC as a fully assembled board and in a fully builtup chassis.
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By the way, I am also planning to purchase Peter Daniel's DAC (Audio Zone, Audio Sector) - and I think the best way to get more details about the DAC is to email him at: phdaniel@sympatico.ca
He is quite prompt at replying emails and answered the few questions I had as well. He sells his DAC as a fully assembled board and in a fully builtup chassis.
Yes, Peter is a great guy, and his workmanship is near perfection. IMO you will always get more than what you paid for from him. His Audio Sector Integrated amplifier is also a great match for any Omega speaker - one of the best solid state amps I've heard.
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Before getting back on topic, I'd like to mention that a big part of this past time is the need many have to hunt. Separates feed that need.
Now, keeping in mind that DAC technology getting better and cheaper, how much you all believe should be budgeted for a system with Omega speakers?
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I'd contact Peter. If he doesn't have one post on DIYaudio WTB. You could also pay someone on there to modify if to the "PTTL" version (pushed to the limit).
It could be pushed a little bit farther by putting in a couple Kmultipliers between the voltage regs and PSU. It could also use an improved PSU...
All DACs could use an upgrade by power conditioing. That's the secret to great DAC sound.
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"Now, keeping in mind that DAC technology getting better and cheaper, how much you all believe should be budgeted for a system with Omega speakers?"
How long is a piece of string?
In my own case, I had a budget I was comfortable spending and tried to find the best solution within that budget. If it were cheaper, all the better. Not counting the server, wires and stands, The retail price of my Omega replay system (three components) is $3,200, with the speakers representing $600 of that.
There has long been an American notion that speakers were the most important part of the playback chain, followed by the amplification and then source. I suppose this is because speakers are generally the largest, most varied and intuitively the most influential part of the sound system. Contrasted with this is the Linn system hierarchy, which establishes the source as the most important part of the playback chain with all following links successively less important, the speakers the least so.
That being said, my Omegas inform the rest of my system; I enjoy their presentation for what I want from this particular system and have found that despite their modest price they are not the limiting step. They have caused me to upgrade my amp to a custom 421a SE amp "inspired" by the Fi 421a amp (right down to the Hashimoto outputs). This in turn has caused me to search for a compatible and appropriately resolving DAC, which I now feel is my limiting factor despite being nearly three times the cost of the speakers.
I've been listening to digital since 1985. For the rest of the 1980's and into the 1990's one had to spend thousands on a digital front end to approach the sound one could get from a $500 analog rig. While I enjoyed the digital rigs I owned (Sony, Nakamichi, Theta, Micromega) it wasn't until I acquired a California Audio Lab Delta/Alpha transport/dac combo (used with an Audible Illusions Modulus 3, custom direct coupled 45 amp and 94 dB Cabasse speakers) that I began to feel I was getting something like I was with analog. However, I can now spend less than $200 for a USB DAC that easily eclipses any other digital front end I have owned. But to get the emotion, dimensionality and space I associate with analog I feel we would need to spend more. At this moment in time I would consider the Halide DAC HD to be the entry level to a serious system involving an Omega-based system.
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I have been using a Wyred4Sound DAC2 DSD SE for about a year. It has a remote with volume control so I do not need a preamp. It has SE and balanced outputs which allow me to also power my sub.
My speakers are Super 6 Alnico floorstanders. Front end is a "CAPS-like" (Computer Audiophile) PC running Windows server 2012, Audiophile Optimizer, and JRiver. Powered by a linear supply. Amp is Passlabs Firstwatt F6
This is the best sound I have ever owned. Very musical and non-fatiguing. Redbook is so good I seldom bother with DSD.
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I posted this in the Outlaw Open Back section, but realized today it might be better here...
Interesting comparison between the Benchmark DAC and my AN 3.1 DAC. No real surprises - these Benchmarks are very nice little components. Crystal clear, analytical (and I mean that in a good way), excellent stereo separation with great detail. The Benchmark also brings about a more focused, tighter bass from both the speakers and the Omega sub. Earlier on in the life of the Open Backs, the benchmark would have been a horrible mistake, but since they've settled in after a zillion hours, I'd say for any solid state person that the Benchmark is a great fit. It pairs well with my Audio Note OTO sig tube integrated.
Thought anyone considering an affordable solid state DAC might want to check into the Benchmark. They're very affordable, have a tiny footprint and go for $500 or so on Agon. I'm on my second one and decided I need to keep one around at all times just for swapping and playing around with different combos. They're that good, IMHO.
Side note - I've been getting the bug to change components again, and this little swap out of the DAC has stopped that in its tracks. (Whew!)
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MHDT Pagoda is an interesting nos dac based on the BB 1704 I used to own the Havana before obtaining the Metrum Octave (which I still own). Recently dropped in a pair of Jupiter Coppers.. Very sweet
YMMV
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113804)
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My ultimate criteria for any DAC is how close it comes to a good vinyl rig, and how well it does 16/44. Don't think I disregard higher resolutions as I know generally they sound better than 16/44. However, many hi-rez DACs don't do 16/44 as well as a good dedicated NOS DAC like the Audio Sector.
The OP started this thread entitled "DAC recommendations/experiences with Omega Loudspeakers". I personally believe more care should be taken when choosing a DAC (or any upline equipment) when pairing it with Omega speakers because of their transparent nature and ability to reveal everything upline, and not gloss it over.
In relation to Omega Speakers, some of my favorite DACs are: Audio Sector USB, Resonessence LAB Concero HD USB, and KingRex UD01 USB with PSU MK2. In the more affordable category: Audioengine D1, and Glow Audio DAC V1.3.
The KingRex UD384 with UPower battery is also incredible, but I heard it on a very good solid state, non Omega system.
The Resonessence Labs Herus+ has only been played briefly in my main system but what I heard sounded great,
so I'll not comment on it other than to say it's super with the IEMs I tried with it.
Salis Audio brought up a very important subject concerning good sound in a DAC, and that's how it's powered. The Audio Sector, KingRex UD01, and KingRex UD384 with UPower are all self powered with high quality power supplies and are all incredible sounding.
Does that mean the others don't sound good because they're USB buss powered? No, not at all. The Concero HD is one of the best DACs I've heard, but I think separate clean power would take it to the next level, ditto the other USB powered DACs on my list.
The answer is to split the USB cable 5V buss from its digital side and feed separate clean power through the 5V buss side. There are three options that I know of: iFi iUSBPower USB power conditioner, batteries like the KingRex UPower and Bacoon BPS-02, or a 5V power supply like the Aqvox.
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Hello
I stumbled upon the Musical Paradise DAC, which is 500 bucks and has excellent reviews both from professional reviewers and from users. Has anyone heard those and what are the impressions?
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=56
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I just got a nice demo Jolida Glass FX Dac III today and so far I'm loving it's sound. I've got it running from my macbook pro to my Miniwatt N3 (still waiting for my new amp to come in) to my 3U and it sounds amazing. It takes 2 12ax7 tubes, mine came with Russian Re-Issue Tung-Sols, so I'll after I get used to its sound and let it break in a little I'll report back when I roll the tubes. I'm thinking either some NOS Telefunken or new Psvanes.
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Lots of good feedback here, guys! :)
I have been playing around with the Resonessence Labs Dacs as well and while I admit to initially expecting their dynamic range would be lost on my Super 3XRS, I couldn't be more wrong. Both the Concero HD and Invicta Mirus (thought the later should be amazing given its price) not only provide me with the smoothest sound through my system but also have the cleanest extension in both the bass and highs. Mahler sounds killer through that tiny driver!
I had a friend, who is a bit sceptical of full-range drivers, over to listen and he was shocked at how good the RLabs Omega 3 XRS combo was! But a quick change in DAC/source in my system can (and does, in my system) immediately yield poor results--the kind of results full-range nay sayers expect. So the RLabs DAC stays! Hence the purpose of this particular forum :)
Thanks guys!
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It's pretty amazing and could probably go up against many DACs in the under $5k range. I also had an Auralic Vega DAC ($3500) to test and the Sony is just as good. My system is single ended and the Vega will sound better balanced so if you convert the Vega's balanced to single ended using a trafo you'll get better results but now it's 2x+ the cost of the Sony, a computer and USB cable are still required. It's pretty hard to fault the Sony in any way except when I first got it it had a very accurate SS sound, not in a bad way, but the last couple firmware upgrades have made it sound very natural and more relaxed... it's hard to tell what the output stage is now, could be a very good tube or SS, you wouldn't know until you look. It's dual mono and the separation and imaging are far better then the Bifrost it replaced, the Sony makes the Omegas throw a huge soundstage and imaging is very precise. I think the last firmware upgrades are providing a similar sound to the tube output stages developed by Red Wine and Modwright, at first I could see using a tube output stage but now it's very close to perfect and i have no plans to upgrade it at all.
I recently acquired the Sony HAP Z1ES music player and although I'm still burning it in, I'm pretty impressed with it so far. All of my dacs in the past have been NOS and tube buffered so I'm still getting used to the slightly diff sound signature of the Sony. The DSD remastering engine is pretty impressive and I can hardly tell the difference between 16bit/44.1khz flac/wav files compared to DSD. Internet radio is the best I've heard even with the 128kbps mp3s.
DaveC113, have you heard the tube mods of RedwineAudio and or Modwright yet on the Sony? I was somewhat interested in those mods but if the stock Sony right now is sounding very similar to them, I'll be saving my money for sure. Regarding the settings such as DSD remastering, DSEE , and oversampling.......how or when are you using these features to best take advantage of them? Any negative effects with using 'volume normalization' ?
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Hi kevtn8, I tried DSEE on/off and liked it better on with the few things I tried it with so it's just stayed in that position... I do not bother to adjust it although I wouldn't be surprised if some material sounds better with DSEE off. I have never tried the volume leveling feature, on 24 bit recordings it shouldn't be noticeable but I suppose it could on 16 bit. It is kinda annoying sometimes as vinyl rips are often recorded at a lower level so maybe I will try it sometime.
I have never heard the modded Sonys in my system but I heard the RWA through headphones and an amp I am completely unfamiliar with. :) My guess is that it's slightly more relaxed vs the stock Sony but as I said the sound of the Sony went from "This sounds like quality SS" to being very neutral in character after a firmware upgrade, now I feel it is close to perfect... I wouldn't mess with it.
I agree one of the best things about the Sony is that it can make low-rez material and redbook sound very good, a majority of my collection is redbook so having a DAC that maximizes it's sound quality is very important to me.
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I just got a nice demo Jolida Glass FX Dac III today and so far I'm loving it's sound. I've got it running from my macbook pro to my Miniwatt N3 (still waiting for my new amp to come in) to my 3U and it sounds amazing. It takes 2 12ax7 tubes, mine came with Russian Re-Issue Tung-Sols, so I'll after I get used to its sound and let it break in a little I'll report back when I roll the tubes. I'm thinking either some NOS Telefunken or new Psvanes.
Hi Squirrelman:
so how does your Jolida Dac sound now that you've broken it in?
Also is it made in the US?
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Jolida is made in China.
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MHDT Pagoda is an interesting nos dac based on the BB 1704 I used to own the Havana before obtaining the Metrum Octave (which I still own). Recently dropped in a pair of Jupiter Coppers.. Very sweet
YMMV
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113804)
Happyrabbit, I'm a little late to this thread...are you still using a Metrum Octave with your Omegas? I have a pair of Alnico XRS on the way and plan to use an Octave. Do you think they're a good match or have any impressions vs. other DACs? Could you explain more about the Jupiter Copper upgrade and how it affected the sound?
Thanks!
Ryan
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I've been thinking about getting a DAC to use for computer based playback.
My trouble is I'm not even sure what I'd want. I've owned two 1543 DAC's, Peter Daniels (not the PTTL). They're still so much better than things in the price range it's silly. But Blackgate caps folded, and there's no PCB's. The fact they don't take any hi-res isn't a bad thing sonically, but bad for those that own hi-res media.
I guess the question is, do I need to develop one? :lol: I've got plans for a DSD device, but I haven't started, and would have to upscale everything to DSD for playback.
It's actually somewhat frustrating looking for a DIY DAC that's in the world class status like the PD units. As far as buying one I'm not ready to spend spend $3500 or better on something I'll probably have to tear apart to satisfy me.
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If your measure of a DAC is how close it approximates Vinyl, I note that at least one proreviewer and possibly two talked about how the Line Magnetic 502CA is remarkably vinyl like in its sound. It's the only DAC I've ever had so I can't really compare - just like the LM 518ia amp is the only amp I really owned for any length of time. I picked those without even knowing they are supposed to be very good. Just very blessed in the process.
My ultimate criteria for any DAC is how close it comes to a good vinyl rig, and how well it does 16/44. Don't think I disregard higher resolutions as I know generally they sound better than 16/44. However, many hi-rez DACs don't do 16/44 as well as a good dedicated NOS DAC like the Audio Sector.
The OP started this thread entitled "DAC recommendations/experiences with Omega Loudspeakers". I personally believe more care should be taken when choosing a DAC (or any upline equipment) when pairing it with Omega speakers because of their transparent nature and ability to reveal everything upline, and not gloss it over.
In relation to Omega Speakers, some of my favorite DACs are: Audio Sector USB, Resonessence LAB Concero HD USB, and KingRex UD01 USB with PSU MK2. In the more affordable category: Audioengine D1, and Glow Audio DAC V1.3.
The KingRex UD384 with UPower battery is also incredible, but I heard it on a very good solid state, non Omega system.
The Resonessence Labs Herus+ has only been played briefly in my main system but what I heard sounded great,
so I'll not comment on it other than to say it's super with the IEMs I tried with it.
Salis Audio brought up a very important subject concerning good sound in a DAC, and that's how it's powered. The Audio Sector, KingRex UD01, and KingRex UD384 with UPower are all self powered with high quality power supplies and are all incredible sounding.
Does that mean the others don't sound good because they're USB buss powered? No, not at all. The Concero HD is one of the best DACs I've heard, but I think separate clean power would take it to the next level, ditto the other USB powered DACs on my list.
The answer is to split the USB cable 5V buss from its digital side and feed separate clean power through the 5V buss side. There are three options that I know of: iFi iUSBPower USB power conditioner, batteries like the KingRex UPower and Bacoon BPS-02, or a 5V power supply like the Aqvox.
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It might be a bit of a stretch to say vinyl. What they really want is just the lower fatigue and good timbre.
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ryan
the pagoda with a bendix 6385 plus the jupiter cu is the real deal. i think a dac with a tube output stage is :thumb:. its a great dac . a couple months ago , i returned a dac minus 15%. i still own the pagoda.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133583)
Dwight
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MSB Analog DAC mated with a very good Tube Pre-Amp.
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Has anyone heard the PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Omegas (or any speakers)?
Expen$ive as-all-get-out but owners of it say it is almost the last word in extracting detail from 44/16 material. It upsamples PCM to 10xDSD then downsamples to 2xDSD before a simple passive output filter. I've been talking with the designer who is convinced of DSD's intrinsic natural sound quality.
The PS Audio DirectStream DAC is the best I've ever heard and that's after having an EAR Acute 3. It's difficult to put into words, but it pulls more information out of recordings than anything I've experienced while maintaining a very analog sound. (It really is the closest to vinyl in my experience) My Super Alnicos have gone to the next level sonically.
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I've been thinking about getting a DAC to use for computer based playback.
My trouble is I'm not even sure what I'd want. I've owned two 1543 DAC's, Peter Daniels (not the PTTL). They're still so much better than things in the price range it's silly. But Blackgate caps folded, and there's no PCB's. The fact they don't take any hi-res isn't a bad thing sonically, but bad for those that own hi-res media.
I guess the question is, do I need to develop one? :lol: I've got plans for a DSD device, but I haven't started, and would have to upscale everything to DSD for playback.
It's actually somewhat frustrating looking for a DIY DAC that's in the world class status like the PD units. As far as buying one I'm not ready to spend spend $3500 or better on something I'll probably have to tear apart to satisfy me.
IMO, the Sony HAP is the way to go unless you have $4k+, I've tried lots of cheaper DACs and the Sony is in another league, about as good as an Auralic Vega.
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IMO, the Sony HAP is the way to go unless you have $4k+, I've tried lots of cheaper DACs and the Sony is in another league, about as good as an Auralic Vega.
I've also owned the Sony HAP and the PS Audio DirectStream is in a completely different league. You can pick up a new DirectStream for much less than $4k even though it's MSRP is $6k. You also get free updates in firmware as new code is written.
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Interesting that this thread was revived after being dormant for so long. There's so much development in DACs that I have to wonder how much of the early posts is still relevant.
I'm still using the same DAC I had when the thread began, and no one has mentioned it so I thought I'd throw it out here.
Mine is an original Meridian Explorer, USB-powered and fed by a MacBook Plus running Audirvana Plus that's up sampling AIFF rips from CDs to 24/176.4. Mk I is only $150, if you can still find it. Mk II ($300) is basically the same, but it has Meridian's new super-duper streaming technology that Tidal has adopted.
The Decware Zen UFO sits on my desk, next to the Mac, and it's only a short slide on the desk chair from the desk to the optimum listening position for this viable, but hardly optimal listening room.
ZLS graciously allowed me to bring the Mac-Meridian combo when I visited him to listen to his RS5 and Alnico speakers. (Once again, thanks, Zack for introducing me to the Alnico Monitors.) He didn't think much of the Audirvana-Meridian combo, and much preferred his Pure Music-DAC set-up running at 16/44.1.
My feeling is that contemporary digital recordings and recently re-mastered transfers from analog material are usually in 24/192, then down-rezzed to redbook via some kind of algorithm. Seems only fair to see if there's an algorithm that can fill in the extra data for 24/192, and I think Audirvana does this quite musically.
I also brought my Mac-Meridian rig to Decware World Headquarters where I auditioned the Zen amp. So here I was, in the amp designer's own listening room, listening to his amp and his speakers, fed by my little $150 DAC. I just figured it made sense since it was so portable, I could use my own recordings, and it would be the source for whatever amp and speakers I would end up with. Unsolicited, Steve said he liked the sound.
What I get from this combo is remarkably analog-like. I should also say that I've never much liked digital. In fact, I only broke down and bought a CD player, by California Audio Labs, when the last LP cut-out bin disappeared from music stores. And then I listened to music less and less.
The audio capital budget is committed for the foreseeable future to restoring my analog gear, but at some point I'll surface and see what the DAC options are then. In the meantime, this A+ > Meridian > Decware Zen > Alnico monitor rig is really quite good, giving me tremendously rich tone and presence and rendering so finely the micro dynamics of a virtuoso like Radu Lupu on late Schubert piano sonatas that I think he might actually start to make records again if he could only hear what I'm hearing!
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There's so much development in DACs that I have to wonder how much of the early posts is still relevant.
Good point Ozoid.
And almost all DAC development is for formats which comprise about 1% of what's available in digital recordings and add to that much of whats available in the higher resolutions is nothing more than reworked 16/44. Also, why would I pay $20 plus for a hi-res download when I can go to almost any thrift store or flea market and get a CD for 50 cents to $5.00. The mass exodus from CDs is a bonus to those of us who want to amass a large collection of music for a very reasonable price.
A good NOS DAC from 7 or so years ago is still very much in the running and in the 16/44 format unbeaten by the high number crunchers IME. I've had my TDA1543 based DAC for about 7 years and it's still unbeaten. Even a properly implemented humble PCM2704 can sound incredibly good.
In light of the fact that music listening is migrating to the the likes of Tidal and Spotify it makes the NOS DAC look even more attractive.
NOS DACs will likely never be big sellers (just like SETs and single driver speakers) because big numbers of anything be it in resolution, number of drivers, watts per channel, horsepower, top speed etc.....sells.
Just listen to a well set up vintage Altec or similar system from the 60s and you'll see how far the mass audio industry hasn't come.
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To date nothing has beat a 20 year old Weiss Medea DAC. using a CEC 01 transport. Enlightened Audio and Theta 5A are still contenders today.
charles
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I've heard DSD is soft. But people seem to like that probably because their system is somewhat harsh.
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I've heard DSD is soft. But people seem to like that probably because their system is somewhat harsh.
You've heard DSD is "soft"? People "seem" to like it because their system is harsh? Wow.....it's pretty amazing what people come up with when they haven't heard something and then speculate about other people's systems when they don't know anything about them. I would suggest you actually listen to a properly executed DAC with DSD in a high end system and then give some feedback. :duh:
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oh, I'm all ears I assure you!
But if the DSD ends up sounding like classD, I'll be thoroughly snoozed. There are some leaders in the audio world that do and do not like DSD; it's not all pro.
I think almost all systems are somewhat harsh, btw. I can't listen to most systems due to fatigue levels. They're very respectable for so many reasons, I just don't like to sit in front of them for more than an evaluation.
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Good point Ozoid.
And almost all DAC development is for formats which comprise about 1% of what's available in digital recordings and add to that much of whats available in the higher resolutions is nothing more than reworked 16/44. Also, why would I pay $20 plus for a hi-res download when I can go to almost any thrift store or flea market and get a CD for 50 cents to $5.00. The mass exodus from CDs is a bonus to those of us who want to amass a large collection of music for a very reasonable price.
A good NOS DAC from 7 or so years ago is still very much in the running and in the 16/44 format unbeaten by the high number crunchers IME. I've had my TDA1543 based DAC for about 7 years and it's still unbeaten. Even a properly implemented humble PCM2704 can sound incredibly good.
In light of the fact that music listening is migrating to the the likes of Tidal and Spotify it makes the NOS DAC look even more attractive.
NOS DACs will likely never be big sellers (just like SETs and single driver speakers) because big numbers of anything be it in resolution, number of drivers, watts per channel, horsepower, top speed etc.....sells.
Just listen to a well set up vintage Altec or similar system from the 60s and you'll see how far the mass audio industry hasn't come.
Rob—
I'll agree with much you wrote, but respectfully disagree with the rest.
No doubt about it, "progress in audio" is largely a mirage. You mentioned ’60s-era Altecs — Jeff Day, who wrote the review that first introduced me to Omegas (and still owns the pair he reviewed and strongly recommended I buy the Alnico monitors) has gone even further back: a few weeks ago he bought a pair of 1947 Altec Voice of the Theaters built expressly for Leopold Stokowski, which he's positively wallowing in. He wrote a blog post about vintage equipment the other day and I contributed a comment here: http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=8728&cpage=1#comment-21843. The quick takeaway from my comment that's relevant to Omega (& Decware) is that I think these are modern pieces that emulate vintage gear.
As far as digital goes, I've discovered that up-rezzing from 16/44.1 solves a lot of what has always bothered me about digital. It's always sounded freeze-dried to me. I have a small collection of hi-res files from Linn and I'd estimate that AIFF rips from 16/44.1 played back through Audirvana+ and the Meridian at 24/176.4 gets me about 80% of the way to the sound of native 24/192. (some of those tracks I also have in 16/44.1, so I can A/B) I once briefly set Audirvana to play at 16/44.1 and, believe me, someone would have to pay me a good deal of money to listen that way enough to write something about the difference. And since I have more than 2,000 CDs on my hard drive, I'm really happy that they sound this good.
I think digital music technology is far from mature. I think you're right that the future will be based around streaming. Meridian's high-res scheme is just now coming on-line at Tidal, and it remains to be seen how many record companies will adopt it. I wouldn't be surprised if others are working on other approaches.
Whether it's something from my library or a stream of a new release, I want to feed my Decware Zen UFO and Omega Alnico Monitors the best signal possible. They're so good it would be a shame not to.
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I am going with a pretty inexpensive DAC from Schiit Audio. The Modi 2 Uber to pair with my Supercharged 3XRS's. http://schiit.com/products
After a few conversations with the rep at Schiit, we decided on the Modi 2 Uber. He told me that I would be hard pressed to hear a sonic difference between the Modi 2 and the much more expensive Bifrost MB.
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I am using an Auralic Vega in my speaker system and like it a lot. I have owned two other Saber based DACs (Buffalo I and a Wyred4Sound DAC2 DSDse) and this is the best by far. Loads of detail without sounding etched or un-natural.
Recently I bought a Schitt Iggdrasil(Iggy). I am currently putting some hours on it in my headphone system in preparation for using it in my Omega rig. This DAC realizes the promise of digital. Incredibly natural timber and tone. It is really a break-through product considering it's price. I understand that it's little brother the Gungir Multibit comes very close for about half the price. BTW. The designer, Mike Moffat, started Theta in the olden days.
I hope to move the Iggy into my main system this weekend. I like the Iggy so much that if it performs as well with the Omegas I will probably sell my Vega and get either another Iggy or possibly a Gungir for my headphones.
BTW. My Vega does DSD and to be frank I find DSD way over rated. I enjoy well recorded Redbook much more and the Iggy just nails Redbook.
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Advancements in audio has largely been for convenience sake and some advancements in materials. Most changes over the years have been to satisfy market demands. Digital is relatively young (compared to vinyl). As native DSD can't be manipulated, 99% of DSD material started out life as PCM, so it's hard to know it's true quality and pretty pointless IME.
The Schiit "Multi-Bit" technology takes us back to the roots of DAC - R2R vs. the extremely popular Delta-Sigma. DS is easier to implement, so it caught on with designers/manufacturers but now a few high end companies have gone back to R2R. Careful about Schiit advice. If you described a 4.5 inch single driver ported stand-mounted speaker to them, they probably dismissed it as low-fi, like 95% of the audiophile world would.
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Careful about Schiit advice. If you described a 4.5 inch single driver ported stand-mounted speaker to them, they probably dismissed it as low-fi, like 95% of the audiophile world would.
Not sure why you would conclude that. I do know that they are waiting for DSD to become more popular before investing part of their business around it.
I was slow to take them seriously mainly because of their name which seems a bit lame but having owned their DAC I would say that they know what they are doing and are are "walking the walk" and not "talking the talk." They seem to me to be one of the most down to earth, no nonsense companies out there. Personally I would put them in the 5%, not the 95%
Actually they are more likely to say "Try it and if it sounds good to you then buy it...."
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I like Schiit a great deal, nearly bought a BiFrost Multi-Bit, but in my correspondence with them have found their advice to lack perspective/experience in regard to speakers, particularly with single driver designs. After all their headphone amps only provide secondary consideration or quality as preamps.
I do agree with their assessment of DSD.
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Hi Squirrelman:
so how does your Jolida Dac sound now that you've broken it in?
Also is it made in the US?
Sorry it is actually now long gone. Not long after I got it, I got a chance to pick up the DAC I had originally wanted a Wavelength Brick (1st Gen NOS model) so I sold the Jolida. It's been a long time but what I do remember is for basically the same price I very strongly prefer this Wavelength Brick. I can't imagine upgrading to anything else, unless I came into crazy money to move up the Wavelength ladder.
So I can say that I highly recommend the Wavelength Brick DAC, it sounds so very sweet in my setup (PC->Wavelength Brick->Dennis Had Inspire LP-27a pre->Dennis Had Inspire KT-88->Omega 3U)
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MHDT Pagoda is an interesting nos dac based on the BB 1704 I used to own the Havana before obtaining the Metrum Octave (which I still own). Recently dropped in a pair of Jupiter Coppers.. Very sweet
YMMV
Dwight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113804)
Hi Dwight,
I also have a Pagoda (and like it more then my Octave).
Can you tell me something about the caps upgrade you did? Is it the only upgrade you did (besides a better tube)? And is it difficult to do or just a matter of soldering (i never did something like this before)? I'm thinking about buying the same copper Jupiters (1.0uf 100vdc).
Sebastien