[dls123]

Hi all... Don Sachs here.   Nelson, from Ray tubes sent me a pair of his best 6SN7, the gray glass 6SN7 reserve series tube.  He tells me they get something like a 24 burn in at the factory, so after an hour or so they are settling in.   I have them in the Raven, which is driving the Blackbirds.  The Blackbirds have the big Shuguang WE6SN7 as their input tubes.

I can definitely say this tube is about as close to the standard grey glass PSvane tube it is based on as a old vw beetle is to the best Porsche!   This is a SERIOUSLY GOOD 6SN7, easily the best I have heard to date in the Raven, and probably the best 6SN7 tube I have ever heard, at least in a preamp application.  If I had another pair I would try them in the amps.  They have a lovely balance of warmth and detail, which is what a fine 6SN7 is supposed to do.  They are as lush as you want, but highly detailed with no trace of brightness and very tight, but tuneful bass.  I make absolutely nothing on tubes with Spatial or Ray tubes or anyone else, so I have no financial stake in this at all.  To be completely up front, I got a pair of the tubes for free, but that is it.  I won't make a dime from anyone if you buy them, but you really should if you want a treat!  I can listen to any 6SN7 I want and I have quite a few.  These are not leaving my Raven for quite some time.

I would say if you have a Raven preamp and you really want to hear what it can do.... get a pair of the Ray Tubes 6SN7 reserve tubes.  It kicked the preamp up several notches in my system right away and I expect the tubes to improve subtly for another 50 hours.   Spatial will be carrying them.  They are worth it, really.   I think Ray tubes, and probably Spatial will have an audition period.  I cannot imagine anyone with a Raven preamp returning this tube once they have heard it.  The Raven sounds great with any decent 6SN7, but this tube kicks it up a level compared to all the others I have heard.  They tubes are run at about 1.5-1.6 watts dissipation per section in the Raven, which is well under the 2.5 watt/section rating.  So they are hot enough to sound good, but cool enough to last a long time.

Like David and the crew at Spatial, I now await an audition of the 300b and KT88 reserve tubes in the Blackbird amps.   I will post again once I have heard those tubes.

[musicdre]

thanks for the post don.  had not heard of ray tubes - will investigate.

[Daryl Zero]

Don, do think the Ray Tube 6sn7 Reserve tubes sound better than the Linlai upgraded tubes for the Valhalla amp?

[dls123]

Don, do think the Ray Tube 6sn7 Reserve tubes sound better than the Linlai upgraded tubes for the Valhalla amp?

They are better than the regular grade Linlai e-6sn7, which is a very good tube.  I have not heard the more hand selected Linlai e-6sn7 and I have not heard them in the Valhalla.  But the Valhalla input tube is basically preamp tube run at a similar operating point as the Raven 6SN7 tubes, so the Ray tubes should be very good there.  I expect they would be very good as drivers in the Valhalla as well, but again, I have not heard them run at 200+ volts as a driver.

[Don_S]

Don,

You give me goosebumps.   On Tuesday I ordered a pair of the Ray Reserve 6SN7 tubes for my Linear Tube Audio Aero DAC. Now I can't wait.

If anyone is interested, the Aero DAC is seriously good and so is the company. Punches way above its price point. Much better than the Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE I was glad to get rid of. Holiday special: the DAC with free Ray Reserve tube upgrade $3950.

https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/2024-holiday-specials

[FullRangeMan]

A new version of 6SN7 are always welcome.
The 6SN7 motto are the big tone and a very linear freq. range.

[rollo]

With the prices of NOS 6SN7 as well as limited availability a welcomed addition.

charles

[dls123]

With the prices of NOS 6SN7 as well as limited availability a welcomed addition.

charles

Indeed.  The Chinese have always made some superb tubes, but the quality is spotty.  What Nelson is doing is having a strong relationship with the factory to get the QA and testing he wants.  Also some minor tweaks to designs.  He says they will work with other manufacturers besides PSVane in the future.  Shuguang is just up and running again and apparently have only two of their 4 or 5 lines going.  They will get it together and then perhaps Ray will do a tube or two with them as well.  We shall see.  Linlai has spun off Linlai Global, so they are busy with that, but I would love to hear what a hand selected and super tested top end Linlai tube sounds like as well.  I am sure Ray will also look at relationships with European manufacturers.

Unfortunately, the whole global free trade thing has been thrown into disarray by the usual force.  We shall see how that shakes out, but tubes come from all over, and honestly the Raven and Blackbirds are using parts from high end sources around the world.  They are hand built in Utah by American techs making real wages, but....  The small transformers are USA made (but Dave's core materials come from all over the world).  The power supply parts are Canadian as well as the panels and latest wooden cases.  The attenuator is from Poland, and the output transformers in the amps are from Belgium.  The film caps in power supplies are all made in China.  So are all the ones in your car, along with most of the boards and resistors, chips, etc...  There is a strong chance the tires on your car are not made in the USA.  There is almost nothing that contains only parts from a single country.  It is a globally sourced car, assembled in the USA.  Same with audio equipment.  Only the WE tubes are made in the USA.   The rest of vacuum tubes come from Europe, China, and obviously Russia (and most of us are boycotting the Russian ones right now).  If there are large tariffs imposed it will be chaotic to say the least.  So let's hope cooler heads prevail, or the cost of everything in audio will go up 20-25%, and many businesses will fail.  Spatial is using parts from Europe and other places.  LTA may be made in the USA as well, but lots of parts and tubes come from elsewhere.  Boutique guys like myself and  Aric Audio,  Decware... our parts come from around the world as well.  Tariffs are not simple and cut and dried.  They are very complicated.  Rant over....

[dls123]

Oh, and on a lighter note...   I now have about 20-25 hours on the Ray 6SN7, so they must have close to 50 hours since they are run in for 24 at the factory...   They continue to subtly improve.  They do everything right, and really nothing wrong.  In this preamp setting they would better any of my NOS tubes and any regular production modern 6SN7, and I think I have heard most of those.   They are very dynamic, highly detailed, and honestly, they maintain a touch of warmth while doing that.  Not mushy warmth, but rather the right kind of warmth that we all love in tubes.  Bass is extremely fast and tight.  The 3D imagining is off the charts due to wonderful high frequency detail.  The Raven and Blackbird combo breathes and there is even more air with this tube in front.  If they are in your budget they are a no brainer.   Again, this is at 150V and 1.5 - 1.6 watts on each section, transformer coupled output.  I cannot say how they would do in other circuits, but I would be surprised if they are not excellent in any 6SN7 application that runs tubes at sane levels.  I know they are expensive, but in the Raven or anything else with a sane operating point I would expect 5,000 hours at a minimum out of a good 6SN7, and probably closer to 10,000 hours.  Most of us listen 500 - 1000 hours a year.   So you are talking 5-10 years of use.  They aren't that expensive in that perspective.  Just don't leave your gear on 24/7:)

[rollo]

Indeed.  The Chinese have always made some superb tubes, but the quality is spotty.  What Nelson is doing is having a strong relationship with the factory to get the QA and testing he wants.  Also some minor tweaks to designs.  He says they will work with other manufacturers besides PSVane in the future.  Shuguang is just up and running again and apparently have only two of their 4 or 5 lines going.  They will get it together and then perhaps Ray will do a tube or two with them as well.  We shall see.  Linlai has spun off Linlai Global, so they are busy with that, but I would love to hear what a hand selected and super tested top end Linlai tube sounds like as well.  I am sure Ray will also look at relationships with European manufacturers.

Unfortunately, the whole global free trade thing has been thrown into disarray by the usual force.  We shall see how that shakes out, but tubes come from all over, and honestly the Raven and Blackbirds are using parts from high end sources around the world.  They are hand built in Utah by American techs making real wages, but....  The small transformers are USA made (but Dave's core materials come from all over the world).  The power supply parts are Canadian as well as the panels and latest wooden cases.  The attenuator is from Poland, and the output transformers in the amps are from Belgium.  The film caps in power supplies are all made in China.  So are all the ones in your car, along with most of the boards and resistors, chips, etc...  There is a strong chance the tires on your car are not made in the USA.  There is almost nothing that contains only parts from a single country.  It is a globally sourced car, assembled in the USA.  Same with audio equipment.  Only the WE tubes are made in the USA.   The rest of vacuum tubes come from Europe, China, and obviously Russia (and most of us are boycotting the Russian ones right now).  If there are large tariffs imposed it will be chaotic to say the least.  So let's hope cooler heads prevail, or the cost of everything in audio will go up 20-25%, and many businesses will fail.  Spatial is using parts from Europe and other places.  LTA may be made in the USA as well, but lots of parts and tubes come from elsewhere.  Boutique guys like myself and  Aric Audio,  Decware... our parts come from around the world as well.  Tariffs are not simple and cut and dried.  They are very complicated.  Rant over....

 Well since you brought it up. Boycotting both Russian and Chinese tubes and electronics these days.  Tariffs can level the playing field. A bargaining tool. If you recall we had no higher prices or inflation when they were used before. We actually got billions from China. If in need of tubes Rays since American made would be my first choice.



charles

[Rusty Jefferson]

Well since you brought it up. Boycotting both Russian and Chinese tubes and electronics these days.  Tariffs can level the playing field. A bargaining tool. If you recall we had no higher prices or inflation when they were used before. We actually got billions from China. If in need of tubes Rays since American made would be my first choice.

charles

Actually, the Ray tubes are not made in America, they're Made in Cjina. I believe only Western Electric makes vacuum tubes in America. Good luck boycotting electronics from Cjina. Have a computer?  Oh, wait...

And for what it's worth, US taxpayers had to subsidize US farmers tens of billions of dollars when Cjina retaliated by buying pork and soybeans elsewhere after we implemented the tariffs. Lose lose.

[FullRangeMan]

Actually, the Ray tubes are not made in America, they're Made in Cjina. I believe only Western Electric makes vacuum tubes in America. Good luck boycotting electronics from Cjina. Have a computer?  Oh, wait...

And for what it's worth, US taxpayers had to subsidize US farmers tens of billions of dollars when Cjina retaliated by buying pork and soybeans elsewhere after we implemented the tariffs. Lose lose.

It was well placed. Various top jets use chips from Chi or Tai.

[dls123]

I am sorry I went on my rant.  This is not the place for this discussion.  Mea culpa...   

[Daryl Zero]

I don't think the rant was misplaced as we aren't really talking politics; it is rather the probable impact on the price of audio equipment which is pertinent here. The basic result is buy now if you can before prices jump.

[thestatman]

Agree with Daryl Zero.

In general terms, second hand will be increasingly attractive because the cost of new is going to go up considerably.   But for state of art then you need new eg Spatial Audio current offerings.   So we the Plebs will have to choose.   And in that setting how many newbies to hi end audio will want to drop 50K on a full system?

[rollo]

Actually, the Ray tubes are not made in America, they're Made in Cjina. I believe only Western Electric makes vacuum tubes in America. Good luck boycotting electronics from Cjina. Have a computer?  Oh, wait...

And for what it's worth, US taxpayers had to subsidize US farmers tens of billions of dollars when Cjina retaliated by buying pork and soybeans elsewhere after we implemented the tariffs. Lose lose.

  Stand corrected on tube manf. I try to avoid buying anything from China. They hate us. Done not getting into politics.

charles

[Tyson]

Seems like cheap, good quality good from other countries (like China) is good for consumers, but bad for manufacturers.