AudioCircle

Other Stuff => Archived Circles => Hypex Owners Circle => Topic started by: jtwrace on 7 May 2012, 01:37 pm

Title: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 7 May 2012, 01:37 pm
Let's see your NCore amp builds!

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 7 May 2012, 03:03 pm
Below are the steps for my dual monoblock NCore 400 build - 2 NCore 400 modules and 2 SMPS 600 modules. The cases I used are from www.siliconray.com (http://www.siliconray.com) model RE2207, about $150 for a pair shipped to the US which takes about 3 weeks. They are a perfect fit and very easy to work on.

NCore 400 as supplied with cables and mounting screws.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=61863)

SMPS600 as supplied with cables and mounting screws.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=61864)

Rear panel - IEC with integrated rocker switch from Digikey, Neutrik XLR, Cardas Patented Binding Posts (CPBP).
I ground through the anodizing for 1 IEC mounting hole and 1 XLR mounting hole for proper case grounding.
Star tooth locking washers were used beneath to get a good grip.
The only wiring to be done is for the AC connections (2), XLR (3), and binding posts (2).
I later added a SPST mini-toggle for the nAMPON in between the XLR and CPBP's. (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62340)

Layout for the bottom pan.
Use tight twist on the SMPS to NCore cable and others.
Keep them away from each other.
The NCore mounts with 3 countersunk M3 screws directly to the pan, the SMPS mounts on 4 supplied standoffs. One is metal, the other 3 are insulated.
I also tapped 4 holes in the bottoms of the SiliconRay cases for the 4 supplied rubber feet just for convenience.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62341)

Final test with inputs and outputs not connected.
Relays click and LED's should light (regardless of nAMPON signal).
Measure and adjust the input and output offsets as needed,
using Hypex instructions.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62342)

Final resting place on top of an 18"x12"x3" maple block on my external Geddes Abbey 12 crossovers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62339)

Rear panel view shown with nAMPON switch added.
Very convenient for just muting the amps as the rocker switch on the IEC is partially covered by the AC plug.
All cabling is DH Labs, with a short 3' speaker run to my XO's beneath.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62338)

Have fun building and happy listening!

Tom

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: saisunil on 7 May 2012, 04:17 pm
Very nice thank you
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: roscoeiii on 7 May 2012, 05:18 pm
Great looking cases Tom. They look as good here as they did in person.

For the rear of those cases, what did you use to cutout the holes for speaker connectors and inputs? Was the IEC hole big enough for the IEC with a switch built in that you used?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 7 May 2012, 05:42 pm
Great looking cases Tom. They look as good here as they did in person.

For the rear of those cases, what did you use to cutout the holes for speaker connectors and inputs? Was the IEC hole big enough for the IEC with a switch built in that you used?
Yes, they already cut a "tall" version of the IEC opening so the switched IEC from Digikey (CCM1904-ND) fit right in.

For the speaker connector, it depends on the brand for hole sizes and spacing (typically 1/2"). The Cardas actually has a really weird 3 hole arrangement that is a pain to align. For any work like this a step drill bit is your friend along with slow speed, preferably with a drill press. The XLR has a mostly round hole, but there are some nubs you have to deal with. I just use a Dremel and a small file to do those cleanly after the step bit. It took just a few minutes on the bench.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: roscoeiii on 7 May 2012, 05:49 pm
Thanks. All my drilling and cutting experience is on wood not metal, so good to know this wasn't too tough to do.

Best,

Roscoe
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mr_bill on 7 May 2012, 05:52 pm
Is it the RE 2207 or the RE 2207L case that you used?  They are very nice.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 7 May 2012, 06:08 pm
Thanks. All my drilling and cutting experience is on wood not metal, so good to know this wasn't too tough to do.

Best,

Roscoe
Easy.  Keep some lubricant on it and go slow.  You will have no issues. 

Clamp down that piece of metal so you don't loose a finger if the bit happens to grab going through.

Or
Put in CNC vise and press green button.   :green:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 7 May 2012, 06:08 pm
It's the RE2207. The RE2207L version is a deeper case.

http://www.siliconray.com/mechanical/enclosures/re2207-215x70x228-aluminum-enclosure.html (http://www.siliconray.com/mechanical/enclosures/re2207-215x70x228-aluminum-enclosure.html)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: roscoeiii on 7 May 2012, 06:10 pm
Or
Put in CNC vise and press green button.   :green:

Hmmm, now where did I put my CNC?  :scratch:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mgalusha on 8 May 2012, 09:59 pm
The XLR has a mostly round hole, but there are some nubs you have to deal with. I just use a Dremel and a small file to do those cleanly after the step bit. It took just a few minutes on the bench.

An alternative is to just cut a 24mm round hole, which is what I do. This allows the jack to be mounted from either side.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62378)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Regnad on 12 May 2012, 04:13 pm
Hi folks,  just completed a couple of NC400 mono amps and thought I would share...


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62533)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62534)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62535)

Quite a difference in amp technology!   Summer amps (19 watts vs 390 watts)

Take care!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: roscoeiii on 12 May 2012, 04:24 pm
Wow. Very nice looking cases. Where did you get them?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: kevinh on 12 May 2012, 04:30 pm
Nice work.

How did you do the real panel ?

I also notice no on of switch. IS this due to low power requirements?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Regnad on 13 May 2012, 05:07 pm
Thanks.

The cases are from SiliconRay via a diyAudio group buy.

Panels are 8mm thick!!  Beat-up drill press, hand jig-saw and hard work!   There is no switch because I made as few holes as possible.   No power LED.   Also, switches with a long-enough shaft are not common.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mhconley on 14 May 2012, 11:26 am
Just a piece of information for those building amps with these modules.  I used Galaxy Maggiorato cases when I built my ICEpower monoblocks.  I sent the front and rear panels to Front Panel Express after using their excellent Front Panel Designer software.  The rears were machined for and IEC inlet w/switch, binding posts and an XLR input and the front for a 5mm LED.  I thought the prices were reasonable and they did a waaaay better job than I could have.

Martin
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 May 2012, 04:58 am
TomS or anyone who knows: My three kits arrived today and I'll read the manual tomorrow.  I'd like a "mute" switch.  Please comment on TomS' "nAMPON...mute" rear panel toggle switch.  Is it just a SPST shorting the unbalanced input or...?     
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 16 May 2012, 12:19 pm
TomS or anyone who knows: My three kits arrived today and I'll read the manual tomorrow.  I'd like a "mute" switch.  Please comment on TomS' "nAMPON...mute" rear panel toggle switch.  Is it just a SPST shorting the unbalanced input or...?   
No, normally the nAMPON would be tied to ground to enable the amp. "n" stands for negative or low signal, meaning when that line is brought low (grounded) the amp is on. Take the nAMPON wire (black) from the 4 pin input harness, tie it to one side of SPST switch with the other side of the switch to ground and you're golden.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ryno on 16 May 2012, 02:43 pm
Can you use a 12v trigger from a preamp to turn on the amps through the nAMPON cable?
Ryan
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 16 May 2012, 03:07 pm
Can you use a 12v trigger from a preamp to turn on the amps through the nAMPON cable?
Ryan
Yes, but you'd need to build and power a small trigger circuit inside the NCore. That circuit would then drive the nAMPON line low to turn the amp on.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rollo on 16 May 2012, 03:30 pm
Hi folks,  just completed a couple of NC400 mono amps and thought I would share...


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62533)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62534)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62535)

Quite a difference in amp technology!   Summer amps (19 watts vs 390 watts)

Take care!




So how does the N-Coe compare in sonics to your Summr Amp ??



charles
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 16 May 2012, 04:02 pm
Wondering if an alternative exists through pin 1 on connector J1 (Aux and Control) on the power supply?  It's function is listed as "SMPS Standby," which puts the supply into standby when a DC voltage is applied. 

Yes, but you'd need to build and power a small trigger circuit inside the NCore. That circuit would then drive the nAMPON line low to turn the amp on.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 May 2012, 05:41 pm
No, normally the nAMPON would be tied to ground to enable the amp. "n" stands for negative or low signal, meaning when that line is brought low (grounded) the amp is on. Take the nAMPON wire (black) from the 4 pin input harness, tie it to one side of SPST switch with the other side of the switch to ground and you're golden.

Tom, you de man! 

Suppose Ncore has no mute function.   

There is no risk of Ncore damage and no risk of speaker damage if the Ncore user:

1. Unplugs the AC mains (IEC or Neutrik PowerCon) behind Ncore
2. Immediately thereafter unplugs Ncore XLR audio input ("Immediately" = time elapsed to release AC mains with one hand then grasp/unplug the XLR with the same hand)

Above T/F?

Regarding user loosing the audio input ground (unplugging the audio input) while an Ampzilla amp is on, thus activating Ampzilla's safety protection circuit rather than turning the amp off first, Ampzilla designer James Bongiorno said thoughtfully, "Why tempt fate?"
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ted_b on 17 May 2012, 11:35 pm
Hi folks,  just completed a couple of NC400 mono amps and thought I would share...


Regnad (Kcin?  :)  ),

Do those nice enclosures allow enough vertical room to stack two modules and a ps (for bridged mono)?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: *Scotty* on 18 May 2012, 12:56 am
I was reading my name on the glass of my office door.
Scotty
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 18 May 2012, 01:50 am
Regnad (Kcin?  :)  ),

Do those nice enclosures allow enough vertical room to stack two modules and a ps (for bridged mono)?
Yes, Third Eye as it were ;-)

I would not stack them. Use a planar layout wherever possible with no wires above or below.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ted_b on 18 May 2012, 01:55 am
Tom (everyone knew him as Nancy)
Do you mean to say to not even stack, as Regnad did, the ps and the module?  If no, then why not another module?  I wouldn't be doing this; I'd pay someone  hint/hint   :)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 18 May 2012, 01:57 am
Tom (everyone knew him as Nancy)
Do you mean to say to not even stack, as Regnad did, the ps and the module?  If no, then why not another module?  I wouldn't be doing this; I'd pay someone  hint/hint   :)
I would not stack either one, just my preference to avoid any crosstalk problems. The output inductor is probably the most critical so putting 2 big inductors close to each other in the same plane is a no no. Think about how it's done in XO's. Same reasoning here.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Shaman on 19 May 2012, 07:17 am
There is no valid technical reason not to stack them - at least in the case (pun intended!) of NCore.
Hypex people seem very confident with their product and say even a minimal distance between amps and PS is acceptable.
Practice seems to indicate they are right (e.g. look up StigErik's NCore layout and his loudspeaker efficiency over @ diyaudio).

Regnad's enclosure was part of a group buy we organised - not because I'm a good person ( :green:) but because I needed this style in specific dimensions and SiliconRay wanted a minimum of 15-20 enclosures to make a custom batch. We ended up buying 30 enclosures in total and I must say the pics don't do them justice. They're all sold out but if you get demand for ~15 enclosures I'm sure they would make another batch.
You'll find more about the enclosure and possible layouts we considered here (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/207734-potential-group-buy-aluminium-enclosures.html).
My plan is to start with a monoblock setup but the final setup will feature 3xNC400 + 2xSMPSs per enclosure (powering active loudspeakers).
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: PeteG on 22 May 2012, 11:16 am
Got my shipping info today, hopefully I can put them together next week.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 23 May 2012, 04:05 am
Got my shipping info today, hopefully I can put them together next week.

Nice...let's see how they will do on your SP Tech's Pete.....I've only hear the amps with different speakers...in Occam's system.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: konut on 23 May 2012, 04:54 am
Nice...let's see how they will do on your SP Tech's Pete.....I've only hear the amps with different speakers...in Occam's system.

Roscoeii is a couple of weeks away on the tour, so we'll get a report with the Minis. Still, the Continuum 2.5s should be a nice pairing. PeteG are you still running the W-5s?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 23 May 2012, 05:01 am
Quote
Roscoeii is a couple of weeks away on the tour, so we'll get a report with the Minis. Still, the Continuum 2.5s should be a nice pairing. PeteG are you still running the W-5s?

Mini's are easy....the other larger speakers "soak up" power.... :wink:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Rclark on 23 May 2012, 05:20 am
 Regnad I want those chassis instead!  :thumb: Those are hot.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: PeteG on 23 May 2012, 11:18 am
Roscoeii is a couple of weeks away on the tour, so we'll get a report with the Minis. Still, the Continuum 2.5s should be a nice pairing. PeteG are you still running the W-5s?
Only using one W-5 now it has enough power for my room size so the Ncore should be fine, with no amp coloration I might have to play around with cables and tube/Op-amp combo in my dac. I will also try the Ncore's on a pair of VMPS RM-30 too.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 24 May 2012, 03:19 am
I decided that since the amp boards were so small, I'd assemble an amp about as small as I could manage. 

Here's the layout (which I went round and round with):

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62972)

Inside and outside of back panels:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62973)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62974)

And on the rack; I'll take a proper beauty shot at some point.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62975)

Thanks to TomS for answering my questions.

Bob
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: roscoeiii on 24 May 2012, 03:25 am
Looks great. Like those Cardas binding posts. Good call on those.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 24 May 2012, 04:21 am
Wow!  Two x 560W @ 2 Ohms of Ncore resolution in one hand...impressive.

Are you sure you'd not be happier with a pair of tube mono blocks, 200 lbs ea, requiring a couple thousand dollars worth of tubes every so often?     
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 24 May 2012, 12:46 pm
Great work Bob  :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Chris Adams on 24 May 2012, 01:09 pm
Bob, that looks very nice. Great job stuffing the chassis. :thumb:
Because of the close proximity of the wire harnesses, do you notice any hum or noise?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 24 May 2012, 02:18 pm
Thanks everyone.

Because of the close proximity of the wire harnesses, do you notice any hum or noise?

None--they are dead quiet, at least on my ~86-87 db speakers, ear against tweeter.  Although the last photo is deceptive because of the angle, none of the wiring runs across any of the modules, with the exception of the output wires. 

This thing is really very good. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: steve k on 24 May 2012, 02:38 pm
Beautiful work Bob! You've inspired me to build two cases now instead of four since I'll be bi-amping. :thumb:

Can you let us in on the source for your case and that sexy power switch??

steve k
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: earflappin on 24 May 2012, 03:03 pm
Bob, nice work buddy.  Would you mind posting your bill of materials on this build sans the NCOREs themselves?  I think I am going to build this myself.  I love the flexibility of being able to have one or two SMPS600's and one or two NC400's.  You can biwire or biamp and have the option of one or two SMPS.  Very nice.  Thanks.  Did you consider the Cardas patented binding posts?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Don_S on 24 May 2012, 03:08 pm
Bob,

Really first class work.  Congratulations.  :thumb:

Pictures can be decieving.  What are the approximate chassis dimensions?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: teetee on 24 May 2012, 03:16 pm
Nice one chasis solution, that is what I am going to do too. Where did you get this case from? Are the holes pre open? Did anyone try to drive Ncore from Volume controlled CD/SACD Player like Oppo 95?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 24 May 2012, 04:22 pm
Here's what I bought to assemble the thing, excluding some wire, screws, crimp terminals, solder, and rubber feet.  I included the Neutrik XLR-RCA adapters because I needed those; they're quite nice.  Nothing special about the parts I selected, just where I fell out.  I decided that if the amps were half as good as reported, I'd go for pretty nice set of speaker connectors, and spare myself that inevitable "what if?" You'll need a "manly" soldering iron to use these big lumps of copper; my 35 watt job wouldn't get them hot enough, so I bought a 140 watt gun from Home Depot for $35 that worked just fine. 

From Parts Connexion (20% off connectors during May; full prices listed):

 PC #: CARDAS-53457
 Desc: CARDAS CCBP-S unplated copper - $56/stereo set

 PC #: NEUTRIK-53041
 Desc: NC3FP-B1 - 3 PIN Female chassis mount jacks, gold-plated contacts - $6.50/each

 PC #:  DHLABS-57227
 Desc: T-14 14awg, SILVER SONIC, Speaker Cable - $8/foot

From Mouser:

 Mouser #: 693-DC11.0001.003
 Mfr. #: DC11.0001.003
 Desc.: Schurter Power Entry Modules Screw-on 1-pole 10A Non-illuminated - $8.31/each

 Mouser #: 568-NA2MPMF
 Mfr. #: NA2MPMF
 Desc.: Neutrik XLR Connectors 3-P MALE XLR/RCA JACK PREWIRED - $11.39/each

 Mouser #: 117-MP0045/1E2BL012
 Mfr. #: MP0045/1E2BL012
 Desc.: Bulgin Pushbutton Switches DPCO FLUSH BUTTON - $14.95/each

From Eltim Audio (http://www.eltim.eu):

 Modu GALAXY Maggiorato case, with 10 mm front panel - $47.02 + $15 shipping. 
 Width = 230 mm, Depth = 280 mm, Height = 82 mm
 Nothing pre-drilled here, but you can buy spare rear panels for $8!

A few comments about the lighted switch on the faceplate, which functions as a mute/standby switch, not to power the mains -- that is switched from the IEC on the back panel.  I wanted a lighted indicator on the front panel and considered an LED, but then decided that I might as well incorporate a switch that lifts nAMPON and mutes the amp. 

The Bulgin "vandal" switch listed above is not exactly the one I used, but it looks the same.  I found a copy on eBay that takes 24v; the one I listed above takes 12 v.  The accessory power provided from the SMPS is about 21 v, so if you go with the 12v version, you'll need to add a resistor to drop the voltage from 21 to 12 (I think a 1K ohm resistor would be about the right value, but please double check). 

Note that when the mains are powered, the LED in the switch will be on, whether or not the switch is open or closed.

Hope that's of some use.
Bob
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: steve k on 24 May 2012, 06:05 pm
Thank you Bob! Those are nice cases.

steve
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Don_S on 24 May 2012, 08:24 pm
Translation:

9.06"W x 11.02"D x 3.23"H   Very nice compact case.

"Modu GALAXY Maggiorato case, with 10 mm front panel - $47.02 + $15 shipping. 
 Width = 230 mm, Depth = 280 mm, Height = 82 mm
 Nothing pre-drilled here, but you can buy spare rear panels for $8!"

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: PeteG on 25 May 2012, 12:04 am
I agree with all you did a great job Bob, nice and compact chassis.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: siliconray on 25 May 2012, 01:18 am
Looks great! will there be thermal problem with 4 module inside when working in high power?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bhakti on 25 May 2012, 02:35 am
Sweet!!

I'm considering following your lead.  If you did this again, what would you do differently?

Kudos,

b
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 25 May 2012, 06:16 am
PeteG:  Thanks.

Siliconray:  There is a good discussion of "thermal considerations" in the amp datasheet that you can get at the Hypex website, starting on page 8.  In summary:  "any normal metal enclosure will provide enough additional cooling for even very heavy use." 

bhakti:  What would I do differently?  Well, the switch on the front panel is only 16 mm, so it's small; if I end up using it frequently, I'll look for a bigger version. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bhakti on 25 May 2012, 06:41 pm
Steidl Guitars: thanks for the reply!

Question for you (or anyone) - is there a simple way to turn off the illuminated ring in the switch to show the amp is in the mute state?

I would like to leave the mains power on all the time and just switch the mute on and off while I power preamp and sources on and off.  It would be nice to have a visual indicator of mute being on or off.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 25 May 2012, 08:51 pm
bhakti, no matter what I offer, you should check with someone who knows what they're talking about!

The LED in the switch has a pair (+/- set) of connectors, so if you opened that connection to power at the same time you opened the nAMPON connection to chassis, I think you'd get what you're after.  A double-pole switch (which is what I used) should do it. 

I like it.  If it works, perhaps I'll rewire the switch.   

Can anyone confirm?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bhakti on 25 May 2012, 10:42 pm
bhakti, no matter what I offer, you should check with someone who knows what they're talking about!

The LED in the switch has a pair (+/- set) of connectors, so if you opened that connection to power at the same time you opened the nAMPON connection to chassis, I think you'd get what you're after.  A double-pole switch (which is what I used) should do it. 

I like it.  If it works, perhaps I'll rewire the switch.   

Can anyone confirm?

Maybe something like this:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63032)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Chris Adams on 26 May 2012, 07:59 pm
I am so psyched! My NC400s showed up on Thurs. and I have them up an running today. Ice cold, fresh solder and no break in, they sound fantastic. The same sound I remember from Jason's tour pair.

I got the chassis from ebay. They're the same ones Siliconray is selling. They came with Nice rubber feet, the IEC cutout and IECs with fuse holders. I had already purchased two Furutech IEC Inlets so had to fill the extra space. Used some dampening material I had on hand. Also used Furutech FP-682f for the XLR input, Cardas solid copper binding posts, DH Labs T-14 for speaker hookup and a Radio Shack SPST switch for the nAMPON. If anyone is interested, the interconnects are Mogami 2534 mic cable with Neutrik gold pin connectors. They are very neutral. Got them from UpScale Music in Newington CT, $70 shipped for a 6' pair. Here are some pics.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63060)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63061)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63062)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63063)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: santacore on 26 May 2012, 08:05 pm
Nice build Chris!! Mine also came on Thursday, but I don't have cases yet, so they sit. I can't wait to get them up and running.

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 26 May 2012, 08:12 pm
Nice work. I take it you decided to forgo on the power switch but implement nAMPON. Makes it nice and simple. Enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bhakti on 26 May 2012, 08:13 pm
Nice job!!

Mine also came on Thursday and are also awaiting enclosure!

Chris, is there any venting in that case and if not, does it concern you?  I'm considering the same case and would like some venting :smoke:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 26 May 2012, 08:13 pm
Maybe something like this:

I think that should work!  Nice.  If you use it, please let us know -- I'll rewire mine.  Only question I have is whether it's okay to take the LED (-) directly to chassis ground rather than back to the PS ground. 

Chris, nice work!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Chris Adams on 26 May 2012, 08:20 pm
santacore, Thanks! Oh man, if I had them but not the rest of the parts to make 'em work, I'd be pulling my hair out. :duh:  Gotta say, I think it will be worth the wait though.

Anand, thanks. Thought I'd give it a go without the power switch and see if it's satisfactory. I can always ad a power switch if I decide I'd like one.

bhakti, I'm not concerned about venting. The entire case is aluminum and acts like a giant heat sink. When I had Jason's tour pair they only got warm and were on all the time I had them. Granted there was no front, so it was open, but I don't think it will be an issue.

Stiedl, Thanks.  :D
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bhakti on 26 May 2012, 11:59 pm
I think that should work!  Nice.  If you use it, please let us know -- I'll rewire mine.  Only question I have is whether it's okay to take the LED (-) directly to chassis ground rather than back to the PS ground. 

I will give it a try, but it may be several weeks as I have not yet purchased a chassis or chassis.  Good question on the LED (-).  My guess is it would be best to use the PS ground.  I think that would assure the 21vdc on the auxiliary power.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: PeteG on 27 May 2012, 06:52 pm
Put them together and doing some listening now. I have light pipes in the front panel for now but will find the right LED/resistor combo using the unregulated output voltage (21v +/-) later, has anyone done this already?

(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk175/peteg-photos/IMG_0649.jpg)


(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk175/peteg-photos/IMG_0629.jpg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mgalusha on 27 May 2012, 07:09 pm
Put them together and doing some listening now. I have light pipes in the front panel for now but will find the right LED/resistor combo using the unregulated output voltage (21v +/-) later, has anyone done this already?

Nice Pete!

A 24K resistor will allow just under 1mA for the LED with a 21V supply. For me that is about the right brightness level for the evil blue LED's. I say this after tinkering with a blue LED and a 21V supply for a guys amps less than a half hour ago. :)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: PeteG on 27 May 2012, 07:17 pm
Nice Pete!

A 24K resistor will allow just under 1mA for the LED with a 21V supply. For me that is about the right brightness level for the evil blue LED's. I say this after tinkering with a blue LED and a 21V supply for a guys amps less than a half hour ago. :)

Thanks Mike, will get some.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Chris Adams on 27 May 2012, 07:41 pm
Nice build, Pete.  :thumb: I almost used one of those Context cases for mine. Have my Pass B1 in one and like it very much.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mgalusha on 27 May 2012, 11:55 pm
Thanks Mike, will get some.

I'll mail you a couple on Tuesday, shoot me your address. Or, I am going to Jerry's tomorrow, I could drop you a couple off. Email me.

Mike
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: PeteG on 28 May 2012, 12:16 am
I'll mail you a couple on Tuesday, shoot me your address. Or, I am going to Jerry's tomorrow, I could drop you a couple off. Email me.

Mike

Mike, thanks for the offer but as soon as I seen your post I sent a order to Digi-Key, plus now I’m not in any hurry to take the amps out  :D.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mjock3 on 28 May 2012, 04:17 pm
Nice looking amps Pete. How are they sounding? :)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: PeteG on 28 May 2012, 05:53 pm
Nice looking amps Pete. How are they sounding? :)

Thanks, so far so good. But I'll live with them a little while and will post something later on in the “Listening Impressions” thread.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ajst2duk on 29 May 2012, 07:36 am
Pretty standard simple build here - sounds good though :)

(http://www.jenkin.net/images/Ncore.jpg)

Dont squirm at the long signal cable length, I'm keeping it this way until I'm satisfied with the look & sound.
AJ
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Emile on 30 May 2012, 08:34 am
I got my first pair of ncore's replacing a pair of spectron amps in monoblock mode, I'd say its a step up in amplifier technology although they lack the ultimate power the spectrons provide. This translates into a smaller soundstage, slightly less dynamic, less ultimate punch/slam, compression when driven loud (my speakers are around a 87/88 dB sensitivity), but hey its 200 vs 2000 watts into 8 ohms. They do however sound more neutral, the spectrons sound slightly sweeter, they have more grip/control, it's START STOP in stead of staaarrrt, stoooooppppppp. Detail/texture is better, they are cleaner, imaging is rocksolid (all on less then ultimate volumelevels though), distortion is lower, sounds emerge from total blackness, they simply sound more live/real. They're a steal at their pricepoint and an advance in class D ampliefier technology.

*I have to add that they do have an advantage over the spectrons as I'm running them "hotrodded", they dont have horrible metal enclosures, no speaker bindingposts/spades/additional internal speakerwiring/solder joints, no xlr connectors/input posts/additional wiring/solderjoints, pretty direct connection to powercords etc which may be partially responsible for the better sound.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63195)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63196)
 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Ric Schultz on 30 May 2012, 05:55 pm
Not fair, not fair..he he.  You are running bridged Spectrons versus unbridged NC-400.  Please order another set of modules and power supplies right now and try them bridged.  You would be the first person on the planet to do so.....please tell us what you hear.  I bet it will blow your mind.  You know how much better the Spectrons are bridged.......it will be the same.  Then you can sell your Spectrons and get even better input and output wires, etc. and your system will go through the roof!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Emile on 31 May 2012, 07:46 am
I would need bridged nc1200's to even come close to spectron's powerlevels  :wink:

Anyway I'm gonna take this opportunity (availablity of ultra high quality amp modules for decent $$) to convert my system from passive to active. Since my first crossover point is @300Hz ill have double headroom from that alone, and I do have around 30% crossover losses in the coils in front of my woofers.

If still short then (dont think so) I may consider bridging but that may also diminish that awesome low output impedance/damping factor so I'm not that convinced bridging is the way to go.. yet..  :roll:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: worldcat on 20 Jun 2012, 07:49 pm
Nice Pete!

A 24K resistor will allow just under 1mA for the LED with a 21V supply. For me that is about the right brightness level for the evil blue LED's. I say this after tinkering with a blue LED and a 21V supply for a guys amps less than a half hour ago. :)

Where can we get the blue led lights from?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 20 Jun 2012, 07:54 pm
Where can we get the blue led lights from?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bulgin/MP0045-1E2BL012/?qs=TJSU9qitBVTj3x5tdT0Ncw%3d%3d

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: serengetiplains on 20 Jun 2012, 08:41 pm
I bet it will blow your mind.  You know how much better the Spectrons are bridged.......it will be the same.

That's essentially my opinion also, Ric.  Bridged should reduce noise (read: non-signal additives, artifacts, perturbations ...) in its push-pull operation.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 20 Jun 2012, 09:41 pm
That's essentially my opinion also, Ric.  Bridged should reduce noise (read: non-signal additives, artifacts, perturbations ...) in its push-pull operation.

The noise is already so slight that I can't help but wonder how any real improvement will be audible.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Don_S on 20 Jun 2012, 10:11 pm
My experience in general (not specific to NCores) is that there is always another level of "quiet".

The noise is already so slight that I can't help but wonder how any real improvement will be audible.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Don_S on 20 Jun 2012, 10:12 pm
AJ,

Nicely done.  Very clean looking.  :thumb:

Pretty standard simple build here - sounds good though :)

(http://www.jenkin.net/images/Ncore.jpg)

Dont squirm at the long signal cable length, I'm keeping it this way until I'm satisfied with the look & sound.
AJ
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: serengetiplains on 20 Jun 2012, 10:39 pm
The noise is already so slight that I can't help but wonder how any real improvement will be audible.

Cab, because I'm unsure what you mean by noise, and just to be clear, what I mean by noise is any deviation from perfect signal reproduction.  It's easy to mistake a single large instance of noise reduction, such as any audible upgrade---whether of an amplifier or DAC---as giving perfect reproduction.  Imo, the Ncore amps undoubtedly produce layers of noise that interfere with musical enjoyment.

One important source of noise is the power supply.  Every supply has, among other things, non-zero non-linear impedance which will create dynamical voltage fluctuations that will necessarily mix with the signal on the amplifier output.  From what I can discern, Bruno has created a more truly differential class D amplifier.  To the extent it operates in mirror-differential mode, it will amplify the signal aikido-like without mixing signal with noise---a kind of free passage through the thicket of power supply grunge.  I can see a benefit from operating two Ncores in bridge mode.  What noise does exist on the output of a single Ncore amp should reduce audibly further by operating in bridge mode.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 20 Jun 2012, 11:28 pm

Imo, the Ncore amps undoubtedly produce layers of noise that interfere with musical enjoyment.


I think the data sheets (and Bruno) say otherwise....
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Freo-1 on 20 Jun 2012, 11:38 pm
The limitation with noise measurement data sheets are that they generally tied to a given single frequency into a resistive load, not a total musical signal reproduction into an actual speaker load (which can vary wildly). 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: serengetiplains on 20 Jun 2012, 11:39 pm
I'm also interested in what data sheets do not say and what current knowledge does not know.  Fwiw I recall Bruno using pretty much the same language to describe the quality of both his UcD and Ncore lines.

But back to the data sheets.  They show distortion, yes?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Freo-1 on 20 Jun 2012, 11:59 pm
I'm also interested in what data sheets do not say and what current knowledge does not know.  Fwiw I recall Bruno using pretty much the same language to describe the quality of both his UcD and Ncore lines.

But back to the data sheets.  They show distortion, yes?


Not quite sure what you are driving at. Are you saying that the residual noise will be amplified by the Class D operation?

 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 21 Jun 2012, 12:04 am
Look at the data sheets and you will see that the THD+N is already so low that any possible improvement will be extremely difficult, if possible at all, to discern. The distortion produced by this amplifier is already extremely low. I believe Bruno has already said that he didn't expect any audible sonic improvement from bridging. Try it and let us know.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: serengetiplains on 21 Jun 2012, 12:12 am
Freo, I'm saying the Ncore distorts.  Ergo, it can be improved.

Cab, low is not zero.  One reason for the Ncore's non-zero distortion rating, I'm sure, is the amp uses electrolytics in its power supply.  Electrolytics generate considerable non-linear distortion.  Some of that distortion is finding its way to the output---necessarily, according to basic electronics theory.

Bruno has said that THD plots do not reveal power supply anomalies of the types I'm naming here.  Measurements are helpful.  They just don't say everything.  Classical physics of, say, year 1800 could not measure what it didn't know to exist, like quantum phenomena.  Does that analogy make sense?  Progress always moves into what was previously unknown.  If something is unknown, by definition it cannot be measured---even assuming measuring capability for such.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Freo-1 on 21 Jun 2012, 12:19 am
Freo, I'm saying the Ncore distorts.  Ergo, it can be improved.

Cab, low is not zero.  One reason for the Ncore's non-zero distortion rating, I'm sure, is the amp uses electrolytics in its power supply.  Electrolytics generate considerable non-linear distortion.  Some of that distortion is finding its way to the output---necessarily, according to basic electronics theory.

Bruno has said that THD plots do not reveal power supply anomalies of the types I'm naming here.  Measurements are helpful.  They just don't say everything.  Classical physics of, say, year 1800 could not measure what it didn't know to exist, like quantum phenomena.  Does that analogy make sense?  Progress always moves into what was previously unknown.  If something is unknown, by definition it cannot be measured---even assuming measuring capability for such.

 
OK, so how would compare the distortion characteristics of the Ncore as opposed to something along the lines of a Pass Labs XA 30.5 or XA 60.5?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: serengetiplains on 21 Jun 2012, 12:29 am
Btw, I do plan to build a bridge Ncore amplifier.  I will drive each bridge with a single Hypex smps.  I'll report back after I receive the modules to say whether bridging does in fact work as I think it should.  I'm putting my money where my intuition is.

Freo, I'm unsure how to compare distortion spectra of two amps.  I don't doubt the Ncores are good amps (see above).  My sense is the Ncores are very good, but I'm expecting they'll suffer somewhat from NFB dullness.  I say "somewhat," here, because ideally I want a zero-distortion amp, which NFB helps attain, but my experience with NFB is it diminishes something subtly vital in music reproduction.  But the Ncore is a digital amp (refutations noted), which seems to me to open new possibilities for using NFB in ways that augment more than diminish.  And it seems to me the high switching frequency (500KHz thereabouts) should ameliorate some of the HF strangeness of class D, of which I'm very familiar (I own a Tact, which drives my ears wild after long listening sessions and which I attribute to VHF nastiness).

In audio, because the very parts we use to build amplifiers are solely responsible for distorting the signal, we're left with the choice of designing very simple amplifiers (like SETs and SS varieties like L'Amp, which I'm also building), or of using those distortion-creating components in a complexity that is finely adjusted to self-defeat that distortion.  Bruno's new design looks to me to employ complexity in rather innovative ways.  I'm impressed with what he has accomplished and look forward to hearing these critters.  Bridged, of course.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: OzarkTom on 21 Jun 2012, 12:33 am
If low distortion figures are so important to actual sound quality, Japan would have put out all of the tube amp companies out of business 40 years ago.

But new tube amps in the $80-100K were introduced at the Munich show in Germany last month. It seems that Japan failed.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 21 Jun 2012, 12:37 am


But new tube amps in the $80-100K were introduced at the Munich show in Germany last month. It seems that Japan failed.

Or it might be further proof that PT Barnum was correct..
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Freo-1 on 21 Jun 2012, 12:39 am
Btw, I do plan to build a bridge Ncore amplifier.  I will drive each bridge with a single Hypex smps.  I'll report back after I receive the modules to say whether bridging does in fact work as I think it should.  I'm putting my money where my intuition is.

Freo, I'm unsure how to compare distortion spectra of two amps.  I don't doubt the Ncores are good amps (see above).  My sense is the Ncores are very good, but I'm expecting they'll suffer somewhat from NFB dullness.  I say "somewhat," here, because ideally I want a zero-distortion amp, which NFB helps attain, but my experience with NFB is it diminishes something subtly vital in music reproduction.  But the Ncore is a digital amp (refutations noted), which seems to me to open new possibilities for using NFB in ways that augment more than diminish.  And it seems to me the high switching frequency (500KHz thereabouts) should ameliorate some of the HF strangeness of class D, of which I'm very familiar (I own a Tact, which drives my ears wild after long listening sessions and which I attribute to VHF nastiness).

In audio, because the very parts we use to build amplifiers are solely responsible for distorting the signal, we're left with the choice of designing very simple amplifiers (like SETs and SS varieties like L'Amp, which I'm also building), or of using those distortion-creating components in a complexity that is finely adjusted to self-defeat that distortion.  Bruno's new design looks to me to employ complexity in rather innovative ways.  I'm impressed with what he has accomplished and look forward to hearing these critters.  Bridged, of course.

 
I’ll be looking for your feedback. To date, the best overall performance from amps I’ve listened to are Class A units from Papa Pass.  They definitely (to me) sound cleaner and more detailed than any Class AB or Class D unit I’ve heard so far. 
 
I also would like to listen to these Ncore units to see just how far Class D has progressed.  They certainly seem to have a good reputation and following.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 21 Jun 2012, 12:43 am
Freo, I'm saying the Ncore distorts.  Ergo, it can be improved.

Cab, low is not zero.

At what level is it below your ability to hear it? It is already below the noise floor of the measuring equipment a good way out. Again, I doubt anyone can hear the difference between 0.0003% and 0.0001% THD, especially when there are other devices in the chain that are producing distortion at levels 1000 times greater....
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: serengetiplains on 21 Jun 2012, 12:49 am
I love simple amps, Tom.  I've built a single-stage tube amp---one hot 6C45P running the show---and it sounded glorious.  I'm building a L'Amp to replicate that experience which, for practical reasons, I let go.

Here's a question I find salient.  All other things being equal, is more distortion ever desirable?  My answer is no.  Don't get me wrong, I straddle all sorts of boundaries---I love tubes and NOS DACs and tubelike SS and class D and vinyl and computer playback and single- and many-driver speakers.  I want all the qualities I adore in all these components ... in one system.  :)

Freo, I'm currently building a Pass-inspired SIT amp---single stage, class A, inductor loaded, Hynes regulated supply (heat!), transformer signal-input, and parallel-SE output.  The amp is essentially push-pull with a single supply, but uniquely, each SIT will drive a separate full-range driver, the latter being crosswired to allow noise cancellation.  I asked the driver manufacturer to wind parallel voice coils to allow this noise cancellation to occur in the voice coil.  Unfortunately, they didn't comply.

Cab, precisely, how can we possibly know the lower threshold at which distortion levels are inaudible?  Bruno's Ncore amps suggest we haven't hit that threshold yet (yes?).  If we haven't, we have room for improvement.  And given the nature of things audible, or imo at least, the greater musical enjoyment resides in the last few percentage points of improvement.  Enjoyment level plotted against so-called percent-improvement is imo a logarithmic function.  The last 1% probably gives a magnitudinal leap in enjoyment.  That's been my experience so far, and is evidently the experience of quite a large number of people given the $$$ audible improvements fetch.  Why, after all, are people excited about the Ncores?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Freo-1 on 21 Jun 2012, 12:58 am
Very cool!
 
Will be looking forward to your feedback. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: OzarkTom on 21 Jun 2012, 01:07 am
We audiophiles so worried about distortion, yet you will not hardly see any of the recording studios worry about it. Most use the worst SS mics ever made, most use Monster cables thouhout, lousy mixing techniques and high distorted mixing boards. No wonder recordings are just so-so.

There is an older 1950's AKG tube mic that is better sounding than any SS or digfital mic built today. On occasion, someone will use that mic to record today, but very rarely.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Jun 2012, 01:08 am
OK.  This is for the builds not technical discussion.  Please talk about this there.   :thumb:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106188.0
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 21 Jun 2012, 01:25 am
Since our hearing is imperfect and has its limits of perception, the law of diminishing returns applies to distortion in audio reproduction. Less is better up to the point where it is no longer perceptible.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 24 Jun 2012, 01:59 pm
Here are some NCore amps that I built. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64285)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64286)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64287)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64288)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64289)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64290)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64291)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64293)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64294)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64295)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64296)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64297)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Nick77 on 24 Jun 2012, 02:01 pm
Nice!! How do we top that?  :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: OzarkTom on 24 Jun 2012, 02:20 pm
Yep, those should make Bruno jealous.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: SlushPuppy on 24 Jun 2012, 05:33 pm
Here are some NCore amps that I built. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64290)



That's frickin' sweet!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: zybar on 24 Jun 2012, 06:10 pm
Nice!! How do we top that?  :thumb: :thumb:

You put them in my system!!   :thumb:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hfxXDNU_n_U/TjVF0KsfP3I/AAAAAAAAO14/rQIsQuYJnls/s1600/DSC_2072.NEF.jpg)

George
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: worldcat on 24 Jun 2012, 06:12 pm
What iec did you use on those amps with the on off switch?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: roscoeiii on 24 Jun 2012, 06:17 pm
You put them in my system!!   :thumb:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hfxXDNU_n_U/TjVF0KsfP3I/AAAAAAAAO14/rQIsQuYJnls/s1600/DSC_2072.NEF.jpg)

George

George, this is like Where's Waldo. Where are they in that system? Hiding behind the speakers? Behind the Atmas?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 24 Jun 2012, 06:43 pm
Bad ass!

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 24 Jun 2012, 06:43 pm
What iec did you use on those amps with the on off switch?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106336.0
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: zybar on 24 Jun 2012, 06:57 pm
George, this is like Where's Waldo. Where are they in that system? Hiding behind the speakers? Behind the Atmas?

They actually aren't in the picture...yet!

Check back middle of next week.

George
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Emile on 25 Jun 2012, 11:47 am
jwtrace, did you notice any negative effects from spacing the ncore output inductor just like 1-2 inches away from the smps inductor?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 25 Jun 2012, 05:24 pm
jwtrace, did you notice any negative effects from spacing the ncore output inductor just like 1-2 inches away from the smps inductor?
No
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Rclark on 25 Jun 2012, 05:45 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64290)


That's frickin' sweet!

 DAMN!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 25 Jun 2012, 05:59 pm
Nice!! How do we top that?  :thumb: :thumb:
Thanks for the kind comments guys.  How?  Fairly easily but like anything it cost time & money.  This was the most economical thing that I could come up with and it still looks nice.  I made 12 front plates as it doesn't make sense to make only one as the anodize is charged by the lot. 

BTW-the front panels are .500" thick which adds a little weight to the whole amp but was only done for the end mill work. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: lowtech on 25 Jun 2012, 06:17 pm
Here are some NCore amps that I built. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64291)


I don't suppose you have a Dude preamp to drive them?  That would be really cool.

(http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/rv/s/f/1312373594.jpg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 25 Jun 2012, 06:26 pm
I don't suppose you have a Dude preamp to drive them?  That would be really cool.

As a matter of fact yes he does, with not quite so many knobs  :green:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 25 Jun 2012, 06:38 pm
As a matter of fact yes he does, with not quite so many knobs  :green:
That's correct, I do have a TRL Dude.  Remote controlled so it only has one volume knob.  That way it should be IMO.   :wink:

And I have two of these aluminum subs too.   :green:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=16573)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: roscoeiii on 25 Jun 2012, 06:40 pm
No flat front surfaces for Jason. No sir. Not even on the phono pre.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: firedog on 25 Jun 2012, 06:47 pm
Really beautiful Jason. Would never believe it is DIY if I didn't know.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 25 Jun 2012, 06:57 pm
Really beautiful Jason. Would never believe it is DIY if I didn't know.
Thanks.  That's the whole purpose to me.  Looks professional and classy without wasting an insane amount of money as they don't sound any different to me.  Although, some might believe that the extra weight does make it sound better.   :lol: 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 25 Jun 2012, 08:54 pm
Jason,
"Dude", I hate you!  I hate you! :lol:

Your Ncore amps are gorgeous...and how do we top DIY aluminum sub enclosures?  Did you make those yourself?

It's OK, I'll just go maim myself now. 

Well, I've got a TRL/Sony SACD/CD player at least. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 26 Jun 2012, 12:34 am
Did you make those yourself?
Yes sir and never again for myself.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rollo on 26 Jun 2012, 12:41 am
Jason your beginning to impress me. Fine work Sir.


charles
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 26 Jun 2012, 10:07 pm
Jason your beginning to impress me. Fine work Sir.


charles
Just starting?   :lol:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rave959 on 26 Jun 2012, 10:34 pm
Holy sh!t!!!

 :notworthy:

Awesome build!

- Christian

Here are some NCore amps that I built. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64285)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64286)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64287)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64288)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64289)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64290)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64291)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64293)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64294)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64295)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64296)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64297)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bhakti on 27 Jun 2012, 12:11 am
Jason,

Awesome build! :thumb:

Who did your front panel work and is the 'nCore' artwork publicly available?

I would like to do something similar, but smaller on a brushed aluminum face plate.

Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 27 Jun 2012, 12:26 am
Jason,

Awesome build! :thumb:

Who did your front panel work and is the 'nCore' artwork publicly available?

I would like to do something similar, but smaller on a brushed aluminum face plate.

Thanks for sharing!
Thanks.  There isn't any artwork per se.  The CAD operator draws it and creates what's called an IGES file. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bhakti on 27 Jun 2012, 12:56 am
OK - thanks!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mr_bill on 27 Jun 2012, 01:12 am
Any chance of purchasing a pair of those faceplates?
Bill :D
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rascal on 1 Jul 2012, 08:53 pm

Jason- amazing work! :bowdown: You should start your own bizness  :)

Since this (case) was your design/creation- any inputs on costs that went into it- you can PM me. I was considering Romeyn group buy but decided to defer my purchase of NC400 until fall when I have funds available  :oops:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 1 Jul 2012, 09:56 pm
Since this (case) was your design/creation-
It wasn't, you can purchase it here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106336.msg1088558#msg1088558
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: OzarkTom on 1 Jul 2012, 10:32 pm
It wasn't, you can purchase it here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106336.msg1088558#msg1088558

I believe what everyone is wondering here, where can you get and how much are those fancy NCORE faceplates? Is that at Sillicone Ray's too?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 1 Jul 2012, 11:00 pm
Is that at Sillicone Ray's too?
No, I made them.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mjosef on 1 Jul 2012, 11:24 pm
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64619)

What's in the box?

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64620)

Come on, what's in the box?


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64621)

Four heads in a duffel-bag.  :lol:
Not my build, but did help putting it together. Its called Occam's Ncore build.
Nice thick solid case. Lots of room for future bridged modules.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ted_b on 2 Jul 2012, 12:05 am
No, I made them.

??  Then wouldn't that be classified as "your design/creation"?  I'm very confused by your answers Jason, sorry.  You said they are not your creation and pointed us to the parts thread, then when asked if we could get (the faceplates) from Silicon Ray too, you said "no I made them".  ??
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: a.wayne on 2 Jul 2012, 12:05 am
Whats the cost of the modules and Smps ... ?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 2 Jul 2012, 12:12 am
??  Then wouldn't that be classified as "your design/creation"?  I'm very confused by your answers Jason, sorry.  You said they are not your creation and pointed us to the parts thread, then when asked if we could get (the faceplates) from Silicon Ray too, you said "no I made them".  ??
He asked about the cases right?

Since this (case) was your design/creation-

Then OzarkTom said he was asking about the face plates and that's when I said what I did about making them. 

Does that clear things up?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 2 Jul 2012, 12:13 am
Whats the cost of the modules and Smps ... ?
https://www.hypexshop.com/
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: a.wayne on 2 Jul 2012, 12:24 am
Thanks .....
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rascal on 2 Jul 2012, 12:34 am

Ok I have to rinse and repeat  :lol:, how much did faceplate cost? Seems like same set up Zybar has as well right? This is much better than Romeyn group buy etch.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rascal on 2 Jul 2012, 02:20 am

Thank you Jason  :D.

Dumb question for you guys---I noticed on/off switch in couple of cases, and some did not. Do you need power on/off switch? Idle consumption is just around 5W right- and with soft start is a power on/off switch required?

Maybe this can go to 'Ask any question' thread in this forum :)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 2 Jul 2012, 04:28 am
Do you need power on/off switch?

Need?  No. 

Idle consumption is just around 5W right

A bit higher than that -- closer to 15w for each PS and amp-module pair when on and ready to play. 
 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mr_bill on 2 Jul 2012, 05:01 am



What is this case - looks like it would match PS Audio equipment well, Occam?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rascal on 2 Jul 2012, 08:18 am
Thank you SG-I guess I did not look at pairing for idle power consumption.

I may have to look at adding trigger switch for powering amp up so I can be a bit more lazy  :oops:

Need?  No. 

A bit higher than that -- closer to 15w for each PS and amp-module pair when on and ready to play.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Occam on 2 Jul 2012, 03:28 pm
Mr. Bill,

The case is from Silicon Ray -
http://www.siliconray.com/mechanical/enclosures/re4310w-430x100x330-aluminum-enclosure.html

(http://www.siliconray.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/s/dscn9579.jpg)
It was on sale for $150, down from $185 when I bought it.
A couple of caveats - The front and back panels (as well as the sides) are 8mm thick aluminum, so the mounting of the miniature toggle and RCA female chassis connectors required milling out the back to lessen the thickness. This wasn't required for the standard size toggle switch on the front or the binding posts, IEC inlet, or XLR input.
The necessity of the 2 3pdt locking miniature switches on the back is specific to my need to switch between XLR and RCA inputs on the fly. One pole of the on-off-on switch is used to lift the ground of Nampon, and the other 2 for switching between XLR and RCA inputs.
A more rational build would simply use XLR connectors, and forego the Nampon switching which would eliminate the need for machining the inside of the  panel. An on-off ac power switch allows the switching of external cables and cords.

FWIW,
Paul

PS - I've found 3 brass cones to be quite effective vibration control, subjectively. They're, IMO, for this build, preferable to Black Diamond Racing (BDR) cones as well as Stillpoints. YMMV
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bruno on 3 Jul 2012, 09:48 am
Nice!! How do we top that?  :thumb: :thumb:
Like this perhaps? :P
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64677)

Seriously, very nice work Jason...

For those wondering about the logo, occasionally when we think someone will make something nice, we can be moved to sending them the outlines in a vector file. The metal workshop people then have to work the machining trajectory out for themselves because that depends on their choice of alloy and mill bits.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 3 Jul 2012, 01:29 pm
Seriously, very nice work
Thanks!   :thumb:


Quote
For those wondering about the logo, occasionally when we think someone will make something nice, we can be moved to sending them the outlines in a vector file. The metal workshop people then have to work the machining trajectory out for themselves because that depends on their choice of alloy and mill bits.
This would've helped.   :D  Still only took a few minutes in SolidWorks though.   :wink:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: acousticimagery on 4 Jul 2012, 05:49 am
Like this perhaps? :P
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64677)

Seriously, very nice work Jason...

For those wondering about the logo, occasionally when we think someone will make something nice, we can be moved to sending them the outlines in a vector file. The metal workshop people then have to work the machining trajectory out for themselves because that depends on their choice of alloy and mill bits.

Or this......... :D


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63668)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 5 Jul 2012, 03:17 am
Bruno's amps have the feng shui down!  Man I love that cruved top...makes your eye go ga-ga!  Flat tops suck (component tops, not guitars)!     
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Barry_NJ on 5 Jul 2012, 10:59 am
Bruno's amps have the feng shui down!  Man I love that cruved top...makes your eye go ga-ga!  Flat tops suck!     

Not so sure I agree, but that's cool...
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 5 Jul 2012, 01:01 pm
These guys go together really nicely. It's a strange thing that the preamp is the giant in this mix, not the power amps :thumb:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64740)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rollo on 5 Jul 2012, 02:08 pm
Just starting?   :lol:

  Thought you would get a kick out of that. Your energy and knowledge is priceless. Now all I have to do is hear your system some time.  :P



charles
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rollo on 5 Jul 2012, 02:09 pm
 Da DUDE. Always a good choice.


charles
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mgalusha on 5 Jul 2012, 02:29 pm
These guys go together really nicely. It's a strange thing that the preamp is the giant in this mix, not the power amps :thumb:

Nice score on a set of face plates.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jhm731 on 6 Jul 2012, 06:14 am
Wonderful faceplates, but why spend money on fancy faceplates or cases for an amp(s) that you can hide behind your speakers?

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: srb on 6 Jul 2012, 06:27 am
If I did have machined NCore logo faceplates, I would like the logo to be much smaller, very much like the sizing of the Acoustic Imagery Atsah faceplate logo.  Having the logo takeup the whole faceplate evokes a pickup truck tailgate.

Steve
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Rclark on 6 Jul 2012, 07:56 am
Wonderful faceplates, but why spend money on fancy faceplates or cases for an amp(s) that you can hide behind your speakers?


because they're awesome.


 There is also of course, the sleeper, it will be interesting to see who puts those together. NC400's in just the worst cases possible.

 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 6 Jul 2012, 04:52 pm
Jeez, I had to check to make sure I hadn't posted this in Frank's circle  :scratch:

Next time I'll use the shoe boxes  :duh:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: zybar on 6 Jul 2012, 04:57 pm
Nice score on a set of face plates.  :thumb:

+1

But you already knew my thoughts on them.

George
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 6 Jul 2012, 04:59 pm
Wonderful faceplates, but why spend money on fancy faceplates or cases for an amp(s) that you can hide behind your speakers?

If I did have machined NCore logo faceplates, I would like the logo to be much smaller, very much like the sizing of the Acoustic Imagery Atsah faceplate logo.  Having the logo takeup the whole faceplate evokes a pickup truck tailgate.

Steve

It's wonderful pointing fingers while you are parked right in front a keyboard isn't it? Makes you feel good right?  I can see why JohnR gets aggravated with some of the members here.

I'm sure both of you have absolutely pristine diy creations.

 :duh:

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: gprro on 6 Jul 2012, 05:09 pm

because they're awesome.


 There is also of course, the sleeper, it will be interesting to see who puts those together. NC400's in just the worst cases possible.

Haha, at our last get together, i was maybe half joking about putting them into a set of lawn gnomes some how.

A pair of these in your listening room :jester:
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q190/gprro/Solar-Garden-Gnome.jpg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: zybar on 6 Jul 2012, 05:16 pm
Wonderful faceplates, but why spend money on fancy faceplates or cases for an amp(s) that you can hide behind your speakers?

Because I choose to have it look nice!

While I don't pick gear based on how it looks; I would rather have it be appealing to my eye if at all possible and cost effective.

Given the rather modest costs involved, it was a no-brainer for me and I am very happy that I took this approach.   :green:

Kudos to Jason for coming up with the design and making it available.   :thumb:

George
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: srb on 6 Jul 2012, 05:20 pm
It's wonderful pointing fingers while you are parked right in front a keyboard isn't it?

I'm sure both of you have absolutely pristine diy creations.

No "pointing of fingers".  In response to a post that said 'why spend money on fancy faceplates?', I was merely saying I would pay for a machined front panel that was more subdued, otherwise I would prefer a plain front panel.

Some people like rather busy burled bookmatched mirror image veneers while others prefer more subtle straight grains with a bit of figuring.  Different strokes for different folks.

Steve
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mr_bill on 6 Jul 2012, 05:38 pm
I would pay for faceplate engraving on my silver face plates if anyone has the ability.  Smaller logo would be much better for me.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: OzarkTom on 7 Jul 2012, 03:17 am
 :thumb:

A pair of those beautiful Ncore faceplates showed up at my door step today. They look much, much nicer in person than what the pics show.

As a former machinist, I can really appreciate the quality. Now I must buy a pair of the Ncore amps just to show off those exceptional faceplates.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jmbulg on 13 Jul 2012, 08:06 am


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64984)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64985)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64986)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 13 Jul 2012, 12:24 pm
 :o Suhweet! Now that's unique!

Great work,

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TomS on 13 Jul 2012, 12:38 pm
Wow, great creativity and execution  :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: HT cOz on 13 Jul 2012, 01:16 pm
Wow those are cool!



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64984)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64985)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64986)

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: OzarkTom on 13 Jul 2012, 01:27 pm
Whoa! Rock and Roll! :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: PeteG on 13 Jul 2012, 01:37 pm
Yes very cool, looks like you have the sides open for the PS for air flow.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jmbulg on 13 Jul 2012, 01:59 pm
Yes very cool, looks like you have the sides open for the PS for air flow.
yes, SMPS is in the rectangular box which is "open" below and above (in fact a metallic grid in black is there to avoid putting your fingers into the box) and the ncore is in the tube, "open" at one end where you see the red led glow across the heatsink. The heatsink on the other side is just a heatsink fixed on the aluminium plate.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: kevinh on 13 Jul 2012, 09:29 pm
yes, SMPS is in the rectangular box which is "open" below and above (in fact a metallic grid in black is there to avoid putting your fingers into the box) and the ncore is in the tube, "open" at one end where you see the red led glow across the heatsink. The heatsink on the other side is just a heatsink fixed on the aluminium plate.


What a great job.

Is the Heat sink on the metal plate functional? does the metal plate conduct hear from the PS?


Could we see a pic of how the connectors are mounted.

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jmbulg on 13 Jul 2012, 09:52 pm

What a great job.

Is the Heat sink on the metal plate functional? does the metal plate conduct hear from the PS?


Could we see a pic of how the connectors are mounted.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63644)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63639)

Maybe you can understand the topology of the thing with the two previous images. The wood (with a round hole for ncore and rectangular hole for the SMPS) is placed on an aluminium plate. Cables run between the two, with channels cut in the wood where necessary. Then cables come out in the base where they are let out at the rear plate (iec connector, xlr connector and speakon connector).
So the ncore is bolted onto the big aluminium plate and the heatsink on the plate at the opposite position. So heat dissipation should be assured but the main objective of this heatsink was visual balance. The SMPS is just installed on its feeds on the aluminium plate but with the two open sided (below and above in the vertical position) it is ok also.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mgalusha on 14 Jul 2012, 04:40 am
Great creativity, really like your design.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bunky on 14 Jul 2012, 04:43 am
Man,they look really Sweet :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bruno on 14 Jul 2012, 11:21 am
That's brilliant :)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jmbulg on 14 Jul 2012, 11:47 am
Thanks for all the support (including from the master himself !). Gives me some relief as reaction from SHMBO when I explained her the benefit of XLR cables for long runs: Ah, so you could hide your amplifiers beyond the speakers ?  :roll:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rave959 on 14 Jul 2012, 01:47 pm
Pretty cool!

 8)

Christian
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Airborn on 18 Jul 2012, 07:14 pm
I did not want to be the one to post next in this thread following jmbulg's beautiful and creative build.  :bowdown:  However, since this is my first diy project of any significance, the fact that they work at all is very gratifying.  These pics were taken around midnight with my phone camera after a long day, so please excuse the poor image quality.

Here is the left channel mono (I know the wiring needs to be shortened up and routed better--this was just the preliminary layout to see if everything worked):
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65398)

And here is the right channel.  Look red lights!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65399)

Here is one of the little guys on top of my Odyssey amp for some size perspective.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65400)

The fact that someone with poor soldering skills and little diy experience can assemble these amps is a testament to Bruno's design skills.   :notworthy:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mr_bill on 18 Jul 2012, 08:16 pm
That gives me hope for my assembling skills!
Title: Re: Chassis & Parts Sources
Post by: bluse2 on 28 Jul 2012, 11:21 am
This is another trials to build it with mono block.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65736)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65737)

I've added the VU meter to make a analogue feeling :-)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 28 Jul 2012, 01:30 pm
:notworthy:

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Don_S on 28 Jul 2012, 02:55 pm
bluse2,

Very nicely done.  Did you build the CD transport/player as well?

Welcome to Audio Circle.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bluse2 on 28 Jul 2012, 04:09 pm
bluse2,

Very nicely done.  Did you build the CD transport/player as well?

Welcome to Audio Circle.

Yes I built the CD transport using CD-PRO2 module as well.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jmbulg on 2 Aug 2012, 02:54 pm
Very nice cases, where did you get them?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: SlushPuppy on 2 Aug 2012, 03:09 pm
Nice work bluse2!

Those cases remind me of the Doge 8 Clarity Preamplifier, which I'm a big fan of.


Slush
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 2 Aug 2012, 11:36 pm
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65939)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65944)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65946)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65948)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65949)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65950)

Yes, that is toe-headed Ron Howard, AKA "Opie Taylor".  Disclaimer: not my DVD.   

Only one built and functioning so far (installed in center channel of Trinaural Music system).  I listened to only the center channel.  Trinaural center channel output does not have the phase anomalies of summed mono L+R signal.  So far so good. 

Certified scale: 5lbs 1.9oz...amp board and ps board alone 1lb 3.9oz. 

I'll post system details and more feedback after I finish all three amps/power cables/IC.  First impressions after only a few hours of use.  It's quite a bit different from the AKSA Naksa 100.  Main speakers are high-pass crossed 2nd Order in-phase @ 80 Hz (Trinaural Processor...5-piece sub described HERE) (http://jamesromeyn.com/home-audio-gear/dsa-1-0-distributed-subwoofer-array-5-pieces-4k-usd).  Each channel of my speaker system is two 8 Ohm stand mount monitors in THIS (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=107770.0) unique array.  Each channel can present either of the following two loads to the amp:

2.7 Ohm minimum @ 200 Hz, 4 Ohms flat above 600 Hz (parallel) OR
10.6 Ohm minimum @ 200 Hz, 16 Ohms flat above 600 Hz (series)

I presume the following is correct: Ncore maximum power is about 500Wrms into the former load, about 100Wrms into the latter load, with concomitant lower distortion and much lower current demands.  Into the latter load, Ncore power limits at the higher 16 Ohm impedance, but has higher power potential (about 160W) @ the 200 Hz minimum, if the music program demands such only in that range. 

Anyway, I listened to Telarc's well recorded Glinka: Ruslan And Ludmila Overture.  First several times @ 16 Ohms/series, then 4 Ohms/parallel.  As expected, there appeared to be a 6 dB gain difference and thank goodness my preamp has dB steps. 

The difference was similar to every SS amp on which I performed this test.  16 Ohms sounded better by significant margin.  With lesser amps the sound quality outweighed the power deficit.  In this case, much better sound but with apparently unlimited SPL, yes, even @ 16 Ohms (each channel of my system, comprising two speakers, about 88 dB actual sensitivity). 

4 Ohm (2.7 Ohm minimum) sound quality was, well, frankly, not very special.  It was OK, nothing awful, just not inviting.  I'm as surprised as anyone else.  Switching to 16 Ohms (10.6 minimum) was a revelation.  My best analogy is an extremely linear and transparent 400W tube amp.  From the mid bass up through the lower mid range "sound density" was like a great, smooth horn system, but with superb transparency.  IOW, it was thick as soup and transparent at the same time.  Detail and layering was phenomenal.  Differences between the string instrument ranges was superb.  Ncore excelled in tonal variety, the same area in which Tyson said it was inferior to his lovely 70W tube mono blocks.  Go figure.

So far I like it.       

The Trinaural allows perfect integration (yes, I mean perfect, absolutely no negative impact with either format) of music/HT if/when a perforated screen/front projector is employed.  I later put on Cream Live At Albert Hall.  Even with only one Ncore amp (L/R channel power is circa 2003 YBA Audio Refinement with minor mods) I'm here to tell you this 100W Ncore/speaker interface might be mistaken for 400W.  There is so much more presence in the mid bass range that I'm quite sure I'll need to re-adjust the sub xo.  Oh well.

My best/closest comparison, with this admittedly very limited experience, is to an Ampzilla 2000 mono block Series II (200/400/800W @ 8/4/2 Ohms).  IMO the Ampzilla would seem to handle lower impedance much better.  You better get something for 65 lbs and almost $4k per channel!  This is interesting, because both designers are hard core fanatics (maybe among the most fanatical) for low distortion figures.  Several years ago at CES, Ampzilla and Trinaural designer James Bongiorno asked a Meridian engineer about their technical equipment.  James chuckled, saying he stopped using that gear a long time prior.  I'd love to hear a conversation between Bongiorno and Putzeys.           
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 3 Aug 2012, 12:28 am
Nice.

Now you just need some black SHCS for that black front panel.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65965)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64295)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 3 Aug 2012, 12:57 am
Jason,
Will you please stop posting that hi-res close-up of your lovely faceplate, shaming all the rest of us mere "plebs?"  :lol:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mr_bill on 3 Aug 2012, 04:57 am
Well I have 4 ohm speakers - are these not super amps for lower imp speakers?
That wouldn't be good.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 3 Aug 2012, 05:18 am
Well I have 4 ohm speakers - are these not super amps for lower imp speakers?
That wouldn't be good.

Bill,
At least a half dozen major variables invalidate any summary prediction of amp/speaker interface.  Look closely at my low impedance spec of about 2.8 Ohms @ 200 Ohms (when my two monitors are in parallel...in series it's only 10.6 Ohms).  I don't know my phase angle, but suspect it's moderate.

What's the speaker's minimum impedance?  Over what range?  Sensitivity?  Room volume?  (mine's about 3200cf)  Peaks 108 dB here (for not-too-long periods). 

Ncore appears to have considerable power reserve whether 16 or 4 Ohms, but I much prefer the musical presentation in 16 Ohms.  The top front-firing monitor alone is an 8 Ohm load (5.3 Ohms minimum).  I will listen to that later, full range without the subs (-3 dB mid-40 Hz range). 

Finished 2nd amp today.  One amp to go, two power cords, and two IC.     
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: kevinh on 3 Aug 2012, 05:41 am
James I really like the board layout and the wiring in the chassis. Nice work!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ajst2duk on 3 Aug 2012, 08:38 am
James that's a great write-up. I like the cases - even the jaunty cock-eyed angle of the signal sockets !!! I'm interested in that a few people that have either trialled the Ncores in the US tour, or have built them, also have amps designed by Hugh Dean, ie; life force, Naksa, in my case Fetzilla (with Swordfishy designing, Hugh arranging PCB's). They re great sounding amps, and I am using both my Ncore and Fetzilla along with Plinius. I really like the Ncores - into 8ohm 86db standmount Lenehan speakers. They are stunning, I think the Naksa 100 (which I had for a while), and the Fetzilla, are slightly warmer sounding amps, but very musical. The Ncores are another prospect altogether, they really showed up my digital source (SB Touch via Synchro-mesh into eiher Audio GD REF 5.2 or TeddyDac) as wanting, however with an Ortofon 2M Black via PS Audio GCPH phono stage, it was totally glorius sound at any volume. The digital sounds better behind either the Fetzilla or Plinius. Ruthlessly revealing is how I would characterise them.
Very glad I've had the opportunity with some time off to experience these amps, truly a marvel.
AJ


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65973)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: drmike on 3 Aug 2012, 11:03 am
hey james,
did you use the supplied iec, what xlr? thanks for the photos.
drmike
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: drubin on 3 Aug 2012, 02:06 pm
James, I'll echo the compliments on your layout. Can you describe the grounding arrangement you've implemented?  Looks like you have three things connected to one of the power supply offset posts, is that right?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: audio-heaven on 3 Aug 2012, 02:20 pm
James that's a great write-up. I like the cases - even the jaunty cock-eyed angle of the signal sockets !!! I'm interested in that a few people that have either trialled the Ncores in the US tour, or have built them, also have amps designed by Hugh Dean, ie; life force, Naksa, in my case Fetzilla (with Swordfishy designing, Hugh arranging PCB's). They re great sounding amps, and I am using both my Ncore and Fetzilla along with Plinius. I really like the Ncores - into 8ohm 86db standmount Lenehan speakers. They are stunning, I think the Naksa 100 (which I had for a while), and the Fetzilla, are slightly warmer sounding amps, but very musical. The Ncores are another prospect altogether, they really showed up my digital source (SB Touch via Synchro-mesh into eiher Audio GD REF 5.2 or TeddyDac) as wanting, however with an Ortofon 2M Black via PS Audio GCPH phono stage, it was totally glorius sound at any volume. The digital sounds better behind either the Fetzilla or Plinius. Ruthlessly revealing is how I would characterise them.
Very glad I've had the opportunity with some time off to experience these amps, truly a marvel.
AJ


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65973)

Very nice indeed - just one little comment tho - Bruno says the speaker wires from the Ncore should face the other way (away from the board) or it will introduce some unwanted noise.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 3 Aug 2012, 04:18 pm
hey james,
did you use the supplied iec, what xlr? thanks for the photos.
drmike

That was a nice/unexpected surprise finding the supplied IEC.  In direct comparison the supplied IEC had a bit more tension/torque (estimate 20-30%) vs. the PX piece, so of course I used the supplied IEC.

XLR female chassis jack: Neutrik NC3FP-1.  I really love these, they are  great.

Notes about the chassis: For $93 total delivered to my door (IIRC), these exceed expectations by decent margin.  Fit and finish quite good, I've seen better stencil, but its adequate.  Screws seem hardened and good finish, black not coming off during install/remove/install several times already.  I've seen much cheaper screws on production pieces.  Faceplate is nice and heavy (check the weight above, this ain't a lightweight chassis).  What a surprise and delight to find they threaded the fastener holes for the IEC and XLR, eliminating the need for a nut.  They also supplied all necessary screws for complete assembly of even the IEC and XLR.  I used a Dremel to remove black finish from the bottom of the chassis for the screw fastening the earth terminal of the PS (I added a small ring terminal at the earth terminal screw on the PS for common earth: IEC, XLR, and Nampon.) 

At first I was disappointed about the XLR turned 20 degrees from vertical, but best I can tell this tilt orients the solder well vertical.  We all know the misery of soldering a solder well that's not vertical.

If you use the binding posts I specified, don't fill up the solder well with wire.  The well is absolutely huge; maybe AWG10 would fit.  On this first amp, on the first post, I doubled/bent over AWG14 in the well, which requires so much heat to melt solder that I slightly deformed the nylon insulator.  I soldered with the solder well vertical and the nut slightly loose (the post wire hole was vertical).  After the solder dried I turned the post hole horizontal and torqued the nut.  I'd say the maximum tinned AWG size for the Ncore gold speaker terminal is AWG14.  Personally, I'd not exceed AWG14 speaker wire.       

I really love the Mogami wire Bruno supplied, it's great quality and the insulation withstands good heat w/o deformation.  But...(sorry to even mention this) my favorite commercial wire for this application is still the smaller AWG Canare Star Quad, which is braided shield coaxial 4-conductor (two white, two blue).  The user simply parallels the same color conductors.  Compared to two conductors, four conductor wire gauge is smaller (higher numerically), with tighter clearance between the wires including those of opposite polarity (dramatically and exponentially, IMO).  The tighter the clearance the greater the noise cancelling effect (explaining why Bruno recommends a tight wire twist).  The drawback (no free lunch, again) is cost and longer/more difficult assembly (four smaller wires vs. two larger).  I realize the length is small in this amp.

I'm a bit surprised at idle temperature, but it's not serious.  My ambiance array (see link above) has a second monitor on its back on the floor firing up (inverted polarity vs. front).  The ambiance monitor uses floor space behind the speaker stand, requiring my Ncore to site vertical.  I first sited it face down, but this flows PS heat (hottest component is PS caps) upward directly over the amp module.  I'll fix this by siting the amps side-panel down.
 
I'd probably prefer about 10mm less clearance between the posts to minimize post-twist length.  I think these are great posts, and incredible value.   


       
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 3 Aug 2012, 04:36 pm
James, I'll echo the compliments on your layout. Can you describe the grounding arrangement you've implemented?  Looks like you have three things connected to one of the power supply offset posts, is that right?

Yes, as noted above, I removed finish under the chassis at the screw fastening the PS earth terminal.  Above, at the earth screw on the PS board, I added a ring terminal as common earth for IEC, XLR, and Nampon.  This was the most convenient method because the chassis holes for the IEC and XLR are threaded, requiring no nut.  If a nut was required I would have been tempted to add a ring terminal on one of those fasteners as did others.  This chassis' thread and screws seem well above average in durability.     
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 3 Aug 2012, 04:39 pm
Very nice indeed - just one little comment tho - Bruno says the speaker wires from the Ncore should face the other way (away from the board) or it will introduce some unwanted noise.

So, looking at my amp, my speaker wires head East, right?  If I understand correctly, "away from the board" in my case would mean the wires leaving the amp should turn North a bit, then turn toward the posts.  Correct?  In your image the wires pass longer over the board, heading South.  If convenient, please note the page to refer to in the instructions.  Very sorry I missed this. 

I have four more amps to build (three for a friend) so this is helpful. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Don_S on 3 Aug 2012, 04:48 pm
James,

I noticed the lid does not fit flush on one side. It shows in both pictures from the front and rear. The ex-carpenter in me wants to take a hammer and block of wood and fix it.  :nono:

What's the story?  Other than that very nice casework and amp build. :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 3 Aug 2012, 05:00 pm
James,

I noticed the lid does not fit flush on one side. It shows in both pictures from the front and rear. The ex-carpenter in me wants to take a hammer and block of wood and fix it.  :nono:

What's the story?  Other than that very nice casework and amp build. :thumb:

I hit it full swing with an old pick axe I stole from the SFFD before I retired...Sorry I didn't notice this before taking the image.  The panels screw together, resulting in about .1mm too little clearance for the last piece, being the top.  Snapped smartly together with just a little bit of tension. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: audio-heaven on 3 Aug 2012, 05:28 pm
So, looking at my amp, my speaker wires head East, right?  If I understand correctly, "away from the board" in my case would mean the wires leaving the amp should turn North a bit, then turn toward the posts.  Correct?  In your image the wires pass longer over the board, heading South.  If convenient, please note the page to refer to in the instructions.  Very sorry I missed this. 

I have four more amps to build (three for a friend) so this is helpful.
As you look towards the front panel of your amp your speaker wires should be heading west 'or to the left' on the picture and you're good to go. It's a small detail but an improtant one that was pointed out on diyaudo.com by Bruno a while ago now. You could loop it around with your signal cable also if you could get the signal cable away for the mains imput a little that wouldn't be a bad thing because AC noise enters there. It's not a huge deal but it means you will get as low a noise floor as possible.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 3 Aug 2012, 05:32 pm
As you look towards the front panel of your amp your speaker wires should be heading west 'or to the left' on the picture and you're good to go. It's a small detail but an improtant one that was pointed out on diyaudo.com by Bruno a while ago now. You could loop it around with your signal cable also if you could get the signal cable away for the mains imput a little that wouldn't be a bad thing because AC noise enters there. It's not a huge deal but it means you will get as low a noise floor as possible.
I think you misunderstood what Bruno was saying.  The speaker wires just need to come out of the same side on each connector on the NC400. 


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64285)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: audio-heaven on 3 Aug 2012, 07:01 pm
I think you misunderstood what Bruno was saying.  The speaker wires just need to come out of the same side on each connector on the NC400. 


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64285)
Ah I just got a proper look at the picture and one wire was covering the other a bit, sorry about that I thought they were coming out of opposing sides :duh: that will teach me to look at pictures on a 7" tablet computer. I have both my wires going away from the board as that seemed to be what most other people were doing. Personally I would still prefer to keep the signal input wire a bit further away from the AC inlet though. Anyway some really nice looking builds and cases on show here, I always find that getting hold of a good - suitable chassis for DIY audio projects is the most difficult part of the whole process, here in Europe there only seems to be one manufacturer and if I go abroad I get hit with pretty large customs charges.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 3 Aug 2012, 07:09 pm
Those are my amps that I built.  James does have one issue (I think) that he needs to get the wires going out of the same side. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 3 Aug 2012, 07:35 pm
Those are my amps that I built.  James does have one issue (I think) that he needs to get the wires going out of the same side.

____ "wires...out...the same side as" ____?  I presume speaker wires but please confirm.  Same side as?  I'll start IC and/or line cords whilst awaiting reply.  Thanks a ton, Jason.

Jason,
For unbalanced 1/4" phone jack output on MI (music instrument) preamp to Ncore: sans dedicated IC, do you agree best option is phone plug to RCA adapter at the preamp output, then the custom IC I'm using at home (RCA, 3-conductors to XLR)?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 3 Aug 2012, 07:36 pm
see the pic that I posted above.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 3 Aug 2012, 07:50 pm
Thanks.  In earlier images, from the gold Ncore screw terminals, both speaker wires went straight up vertical about an inch, maybe less, then turned 90 degrees east/right toward the posts. 

Is my error the wire departing the screws in a vertical direction, then crossing over the board to the right/east?  Is the advice for the wires to remain parallel or inline with the two screws (north/south in my image) when the wires cross over the amp?  Is it better for both wires leave the screws in a northward direction (toward the side panel near the image top) then bend upward and east/right to the posts?   

Here's the image after pushing the vertical bend down toward the north/toward the amp base: 


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65997)
     
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 3 Aug 2012, 10:51 pm
I don't know how else to explain this.

If you run the speaker wire out of the left side of the terminal (towards the outside of the NC400)that is mounted on the NC400 it needs to be done on the other terminal as well. 

Both wires will be going in the same direction..
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 3 Aug 2012, 11:50 pm
...If you run the speaker wire out of the left side of the terminal (towards the outside of the NC400) that is mounted on the NC400 it needs to be done on the other terminal as well. 

Both wires will be going in the same direction...

Thanks, Jason.  I get what you mean now by "same direction". 

...James does have one issue (I think) that he needs to get the wires going out of the same side.

Being that these two speaker wires are twisted together (till they split at the posts), they would appear to follow the recommended path.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65946)
 


Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: doug s. on 4 Aug 2012, 04:13 am
jim, it seems to me the only real difference between your build and jason's is that the location of the input jack and speaker jacks have been swapped.  not sure if it makes a difference; if anything your shorter wiring to the speaker jacks couldn't hurt anything.  also, your module has been moved a bit further away from the power input, which seems like it might be a good thing...

w/the benefit of having seen your's and jason's builds, if i ever do one, i think i would locate the jacks as shown here, and perhaps sliding the ncore module even closer to the right side of the case:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66014)

doug s.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 4 Aug 2012, 04:21 am
With the level moderately high, HF noise is so low that I found it difficult to center my ear directly over the dome.  That was weird!  The mid bass was almost silent with my ear stuck right over it. 

A business problem delayed progress today, drats! 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 4 Aug 2012, 06:33 pm
Doug,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I'm pretty sure, with the two boards oriented as they are now (cable terminals parallel and pointing north), the main umbilical cord length is at maximum tension (twisting considerably minimizes effective cable length).  IOW you'd likely have to rotate the amp module counter clockwise to increase the distance between it and the PS (can not rotate the PS clockwise because of its shape and size).   

I suppose you'd move the binding posts southward to increase spacing to the mains?

Center to center post distance is 39.7mm (same as IEC fastener centers).  I'd prefer 30mm to minimize the untwisted wire length (lower noise) and for cosmetic design (in that order). 

This amp is unbelievably quiet.  The specified Neutrik XLR come in gold or silver; I chose gold.  Again, from my brief audition in mono, I might lean toward silver contacts (jack and plug must match IMO) because Ncore sounds so dense, especially from the mid bass through the middle mid range, where my system is already extremely dynamic.  IMO silver contact might de-emphasize the above described density, and emphasize leading transient edges, especially from the upper mid range through the treble, which could benefit this system powered by Ncore.  But there's always that risk (IMO) of silver increasing fatigue.  This system has no trace of fatigue now, leading to two diametrically opposed potential conclusions: there's margin to slightly increase fatigue to achieve the silver contact's potential benefit, or any slight increase in fatigue may be easily detected.         
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: doug s. on 4 Aug 2012, 09:15 pm
...I suppose you'd move the binding posts southward to increase spacing to the mains?...

what i was thinking, is to keep the speaker jack leads as short as they are, while also shortening the input leads, and not having them cross each other.  so, i am moving the speaker jacks "south" yust enough to leave adequate space between them and the input jacks, while still insuring enough space between the input jack and the power input.  w/a little longer case, one could rotate the power supply 90 degrees, which would allow for the umbilical to reach, and it would also shorten the power connection cabling...

some day, when the hysteria dies down (and the prices drop), i may have to check these out.  i like the idea of their efficiency...

doug s.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: barrows on 4 Aug 2012, 11:51 pm
RE: wiring arrangement.  It is important to consider what the wires are carrying.  The input wiring is carrying a very low level signal, and as such is more susceptible to interference, of course this wire is shielded and that may help.  The speaker wiring is carrying a high level signal, and as such will radiate a fairly large field around it, so it needs to be kept away from both the input wiring, and the module itself.
Additionally, the output inductor will radiate a big field, so all wires should be kept away from it.
Consider also, that it is likely that the module itself radiates a fair amount of RF, so one should be careful about routing any wiring near/adjacent to the module.
IMO, when I build my next nCore amp, I will probably be more concerned with the proximity issues of the wiring, than trying to keep the wiring as short as possible.  I will also choose speaker binding posts and speaker wiring which allows keeping a tight twist as close to the terminations at the posts as possible.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: doug s. on 5 Aug 2012, 01:02 am
here's a proposed layout.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66051)
the case would be a bit longer & wider than what was done in the basic builds...

doug s.

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 5 Aug 2012, 01:06 am
Doug,
I like it.  If money was no issue I would have purchased larger chassis.  I didn't check to see which was the next larger size. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: doug s. on 5 Aug 2012, 01:31 am
Doug,
I like it.  If money was no issue I would have purchased larger chassis.  I didn't check to see which was the next larger size.

if money was no issue, i would have purchased two amps and power supplies.   :lol:

doug s.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 5 Aug 2012, 03:44 am
RE: wiring arrangement.  It is important to consider what the wires are carrying.  The input wiring is carrying a very low level signal, and as such is more susceptible to interference, of course this wire is shielded and that may help.  The speaker wiring is carrying a high level signal, and as such will radiate a fairly large field around it, so it needs to be kept away from both the input wiring, and the module itself.
Additionally, the output inductor will radiate a big field, so all wires should be kept away from it.
Consider also, that it is likely that the module itself radiates a fair amount of RF, so one should be careful about routing any wiring near/adjacent to the module.
IMO, when I build my next nCore amp, I will probably be more concerned with the proximity issues of the wiring, than trying to keep the wiring as short as possible.  I will also choose speaker binding posts and speaker wiring which allows keeping a tight twist as close to the terminations at the posts as possible.

Of all the points you mentioned, the least important is how close the input and output wiring are. Remember, they are right next to each other on the actual Ncore module (so you are screwed from the beginning if one follows your logic). What people should be really concentrating on is keeping the AC wiring of the power supply far away from the the DC umbilical and the input/output wiring.

Still, all things being equal, distance (between components) will always be your friend, although at some point I get concerned about lengthy wires as it can pick up RF, etc...

Best,

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 5 Aug 2012, 02:18 pm
One Monoblock done...one to go.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66072)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66073)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66074)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66075)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66076)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66077)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66078)


I am sure the components used are pretty obvious by the pictures. Cardas CPBP copper binding posts, Jena Labs output wiring, Neutrik XLR (gold if you must know), Furutech IEC (gold again), CKK SPDT toggle switch (for nAmpON), and Silicon Ray chassis heavily modified through Front Panel Express. The front panel has no in fill on the emblem...I did that on purpose. I might anodize the whole front panel in the future, but for now, it looks fine, and off axis, you can hardly tell there is an engraving.

Why did I use the components you see here? Because I had already measured them for previous projects and it was easy to program FPE's cad program to do so...that's why.

From an e-mail regarding the implementation of the 'power switch' which in my case I wanted as the illuminated Bulgin switch but alas...

The sonics as you guys already know is all Bruno. The only part where I used my brain is routing the AC wiring to the other side, and of course making a decision about nAmpOn. I tried to implement the Bulgin front panel switch, however 1) I didn't want to slave the power to the switch from amplifier itself, which seems to defeat the purpose of keeping it a low noise amplifier and 2) I didn't implement the relay version of the switch using the AMB boards because of SPACE. It was just too tight. So noise coupling may have again been an issue so...that idea was trashed as well.

Off to the next monoblock,

Best,


Anand.


Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 5 Aug 2012, 02:51 pm
Nice.

No main power switch?  They will be powered 24/7? 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 5 Aug 2012, 02:56 pm
Nice.

No main power switch?  They will be powered 24/7? 

Yes, your sub amp by the way, is on 24/7. It gives a 'thump' everytime I turn it on which is clearly because they didn't implement a longer delay in the protection circuit. The nCore by comparison is benign and just sucks a little juice.

We'll see how long I can last without a power switch!

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 5 Aug 2012, 03:01 pm
Yes, your sub amp by the way, is on 24/7. It gives a 'thump' everytime I turn it on which is clearly because they didn't implement a longer delay in the protection circuit. The nCore by comparison is benign and just sucks a little juice.

We'll see how long I can last without a power switch!

Best,
Anand.
You're much braver then me!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 5 Aug 2012, 03:04 pm
You're much braver then me!

Or dummer! I'm just relying on that poor fuse to save me! Seriously though if I ever sell the amps, I can easily implement a button power switch on the rear right side that should be nearly invisible.

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 5 Aug 2012, 04:59 pm
Anand,
IMO your simple routing of the mains around the far side is brilliant.  I'd follow this plan if I were re-doing it.

My understanding is the hottest Ncore component is a PS cap.  As mentioned earlier, my dual-monitor ambiance array requires each mono bloc to site on any narrow panel, either:

A. Face down, or
B. Either side panel down

The former flows PS heat vertically upward through the amp module, whilst the latter radiates only lateral (indirect) heat to the amp module.  To what extent, if at all, do you recommend the latter vs. the former? 

Thanks! 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 5 Aug 2012, 07:39 pm
Anand,
IMO your simple routing of the mains around the far side is brilliant.  I'd follow this plan if I were re-doing it.

My understanding is the hottest Ncore component is a PS cap.  As mentioned earlier, my dual-monitor ambiance array requires each mono bloc to site on any narrow panel, either:

A. Face down, or
B. Either side panel down

The former flows PS heat vertically upward through the amp module, whilst the latter radiates only lateral (indirect) heat to the amp module.  To what extent, if at all, do you recommend the latter vs. the former? 

Thanks! 

Honestly, I recommend whatever is easiest for you to implement in your situation. The heat production is small and mostly from the PS as you state. With vent holes, even that becomes a non issue IMHO. Remember, heat rises. I implemented the vent holes as shown for only one reason: Looks.

Best,

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rajesh on 6 Aug 2012, 08:13 am
One Monoblock done...one to go.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66076)

I am sure the components used are pretty obvious by the pictures. Cardas CPBP copper binding posts, Jena Labs output wiring, Neutrik XLR (gold if you must know), Furutech IEC (gold again), CKK SPDT toggle switch (for nAmpON)

Whoa, great looking amp. Congratulations. BTW, pardon my ignorance; what is that round thingy besides the balanced input?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: TrungT on 6 Aug 2012, 08:31 am
^^^^^
"Cardas CPBP copper binding posts"
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 6 Aug 2012, 05:29 pm
^^^^^
"Cardas CPBP copper binding posts"

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&pagestring=pate..&content_id=10

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 8 Aug 2012, 01:50 am
2nd monoblock done.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66199)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66200)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66201)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66202)

Time for testing, checking dc offset, etc...

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mgalusha on 8 Aug 2012, 01:56 am
Looking very nice Anand, now go listen!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 8 Aug 2012, 01:59 am
now go listen!
+1
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jhm731 on 8 Aug 2012, 02:36 am
Anand-

Just wondering why you didn't mount the Cardas binding posts vertically like this low profile Ayre mono amp:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_98vyfZ-DuYw/S_UUJvBW15I/AAAAAAAABVk/uPbSPwPa6vU/s320/P4250828.JPG)

Seems like it puts less stress on your speaker cables.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 8 Aug 2012, 03:33 am
Anand-

Just wondering why you didn't mount the Cardas binding posts vertically like this low profile Ayre mono amp:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_98vyfZ-DuYw/S_UUJvBW15I/AAAAAAAABVk/uPbSPwPa6vU/s320/P4250828.JPG)

Seems like it puts less stress on your speaker cables.

1)I use footers under all of my amps.

2)I've never had a stress issue you describe even with 10 gauge cables.

3)I don't see why this is specific to Cardas CPBP posts ie shouldn't others mount their non Cardas CPBP posts as you describe? I don't see that the great majority do. But anyway, the reason I chose these posts was not the sound but because of the profound clamping mechanism.

4)I think the horizontal orientation looks better to my eyes.

5) I have plenty of rear shelf space.

6) See my gallery for other designs using these posts, never have had an issue although those other designs were heavier.

7) I like to hide my cables behind my amps.

How is your build coming along?

Best,

Anand.

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 8 Aug 2012, 05:17 am
For Trinaural music system: tonight I finished three Ncore, three RCA-to-XLR interconnects, three new mains cables, and three speaker cables (Ambiance/Mode Cancelling Array, two 8 Ohm monitors per channel wired in series for 16 Ohms).  So many new parts I should have avoided any snap judgements.  Sound wise, the first forty five minutes I was not a happy camper, cloudy, congested, smoky, not so good.  It got smoother and much more dimensional.  Been on now for about three hours and already sounding pretty good to very good.  I'll play music at moderate low level all night and listen again tomorrow. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jhm731 on 8 Aug 2012, 06:24 am
Anand,

Thanks for your reply.

Your point #6, is what concerns me. Light weight amps with heavy stiff speaker cables seems like a potential problem.

The amps I'm currently interested in- Ayre & Aesthetix both mount the
single knob Cardas binding posts vertically.

I'm not going to invest in a NCore build until I have a chance to compare them to
the Ayre monos and Aesthetix Atlas Signature amps.

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 8 Aug 2012, 10:28 am
Anand,

Thanks for your reply.

Your point #6, is what concerns me. Light weight amps with heavy stiff speaker cables seems like a potential problem.

The amps I'm currently interested in- Ayre & Aesthetix both mount the
single knob Cardas binding posts vertically.

I'm not going to invest in a NCore build until I have a chance to compare them to
the Ayre monos and Aesthetix Atlas Signature amps.

Indeed, discussions regarding this are a moot point if the NCore is not to your liking sonically.

In any case, there are ways around your conundrum, heavier chassis, etc...there is no reason to use this model of the Silicon Ray chassis, there are other options.

I have done both vertical and horizontal orientations, and it doesn't phase me to make a difference. Vertically, the cable still has to bend somewhat acutely just like in the horizontal method, as long as the amps are on a shelf. If they are not on a shelf, or on the floor, the vertical orientation can be easier. All the thicker cables I have had have been flexible, and I consider Reality Cables flexible as well, although others consider it stiff.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mjock3 on 8 Aug 2012, 05:14 pm
Anand,

Beautiful work as always. Hope you are enjoying them.  :thumb:

Thanks for sharing.

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 8 Aug 2012, 05:25 pm
My wife has a better ear than me, and is much more critical.  As of this moment, she absolutely loves Ncore performance, mentioning it brings her back to the effect decades ago with VTL Compact 100s (we owned likely the first pair ever in the USA...she has consistently compared everything since then to that sound effect).

If these are not my favorite all time amps, I can't identify anything I like better.  ASAP I'll post system details. 

You'd have to be deaf to say Ncore (and all associated new wiring: mains, input, speaker) did not improve dramatically since I first started listening to it last night.  For the first 30-45 minutes I felt some severely dreaded buyer's remorse! 

A solo piano SACD (Sony) was positively scary it was so realistic.   

 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Phil on 12 Aug 2012, 09:31 pm
This is not DIY, rather it is SEDI (someone else did it - thank you, Mike).

Very nice workmanship.  Review of the sound to follow.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66327)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: drubin on 12 Aug 2012, 09:38 pm
Very nice.  What's the Audio Magic box?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 12 Aug 2012, 10:24 pm
Very nice.  What's the Audio Magic box?

http://www.audio-magic.com/Prod-PulseGenZX.html

Best,

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 17 Aug 2012, 10:39 pm
Here is "stage 2" of my build...planning the layout and a custom case.  (Stage 1 was buying the basic parts!)  I would appreciate any input everyone can offer.

I looked at all the traditional cases, and decided I wanted to do my own thing.  So, I have designed cases that will mount to the wall beside the stand holding my other gear and behind my front speakers.  There is a monoblock per speaker.

For my design - I decided to show off the core.  Read on to find out how I am going to do that.

Each has a poplar face (~12*13").  The corners will be rounded off and all edges will be rounded also.  In the location where the NC400 is, there will be a circular hole ~the same diameter as the NC400, with smoked glass covering the hole.  The module will be visible but darkened by the smoked glass.  Wooden standoffs attach to the back of the face plate to space a steel plate (28 gauge - unless someone things I should use aluminum...) about 2" behind the face plate.  The power supply & NC400 will be mounted to this, and this is also where the grounds will connect.  A bottom plate (which would be the back plate, if the units were not wall-mounted) connects to the lower standoffs to hold all the inputs/outputs.  Additional standoffs attach to the back side of the steel plate to ensure airflow between the wall and the steel plate and provide holes to mount the unit to the wall.  Air will also be able to enter the sides and flow upward & out the top (only restricted by some fabric to keep dust out).

A drawing (to scale...each grid is 10*10 mm, fyi) of the plan view follows, followed by a not-to-scale side view drawing to give you a better idea of the layout and what it will look like.  Note that the locations of the wiring runs are approximate, not exact, but the positioning of the major parts is fairly exact.

Again - any input is welcome!

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/planviewoflayout.jpg (http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/planviewoflayout.jpg)

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/sideviewoflayout.jpg (http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/sideviewoflayout.jpg)

Thanks for any input!

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: srb on 17 Aug 2012, 11:28 pm
Definitely an interesting design.

Two things I might do if I were building them would be

1.  Use aluminum for the back plate.  As this is the heatsink for the NC400 module, aluminum has ~ 6X the thermal conductivity of steel.

2.  Use a flush mount circular piece of glass.  I think this would look much better than having glass at the back of a 1" deep hole.  The hole would be routed with a recess similar to a tweeter.  Inexpensive 4" round blank glass with finished edge is available sold as round glass coasters.  The tint would be from a piece of window film applied to the backside and would also give you more variation in availability of both color and transparency.  Since you wouldn't be able to install rear clips for the glass, a tiny bead of silicone should hold it securely.

Steve
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: doug s. on 18 Aug 2012, 12:09 am
i would re-orient the amp and p/s to keep wiring away from other wiring, etc.  sorta like this; you can figure out how you want your window, but keeping wires away from each other is more important, imo:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66550)

doug s.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Airborn on 18 Aug 2012, 12:14 am
Quote
i would re-orient the amp and p/s to keep wiring away from other wiring, etc.
+1  Bruno has been pretty specific about keeping the wires tightly twisted and as far apart as possible.  Check the diy audio thread, Hypex web site and the Ncore build threads here for specifics.  Great unique design idea though. :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 18 Aug 2012, 12:45 am
Thanks for the input...I have been looking for aluminum thick enough to use, but so far have not found a source.  I will look more this weekend.

As I plan to lay it out, the wires will end up 20 mm apart (and twisted).  I would like to keep the "window" toward the top/center.  But, I can lengthen the top plate by ~2", rotate the power supply, move the wires further apart, and still keep the window top/center.  The revised sketch (below) shows that.  I was kind of thinking I'd like a longer one anyway...it'll be more rectangular, like my Maggie 1.7's the nCores will be driving.  (And I like the coaster idea!  I will have to look for some.  If not, I am sure my local glass supply place can cut them for me.

Thanks for the suggestions, gents!

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/planviewoflayoutv2.jpg (http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/planviewoflayoutv2.jpg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: doug s. on 18 Aug 2012, 04:42 am
i think you will find that the custom umbilical supplied by ncore that connects the amp w/the p/s will not be long enough to lay out the amp as you have shown in your last drawing.  if you want to have the window towards the top, i think you will be better off laying out the modules similar to what i have shown, and turn the amp clockwise 90 degrees, so that the connectors are on the left side and not on the bottom.  you may also wanna rotate the amp module itself about 45 to 90 degrees counterclockwise in relation to the p/s, to more optimally use the prowided umbilical cord length.

look at the pics shown on page 11 of this thread, which will give you an idea of the actual length of the umbilical - not sure you would wanna re-do this connector.  also, you will find a cut-n-paste layout i did, which could be easily modified to center the amp module by lengthening the speaker and input connection wires; but again, this would leave the connectors on the side of the amp, not on the bottom:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66051)

if you want the connectors on the bottom, slide everything down, (making the case larger in this direction), run the power connector up and to the far left of the case, to the side at the top of my drawing, while extending the speaker and input connectors up & to the top side...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66558)

basically, what you need to do, is rotate the p/s module 90 degrees clockwise, as shown in your last drawing...

doug s.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 18 Aug 2012, 09:41 am
The length of the provided cables was a question I had...can anyone share what the actual lengths are for the cables from the PS to the amp & power in to the PS & from amp to XLR?  That would really help as I work the final details.

I do want the plugs on the bottom - I think that will look nicer once hanging on the wall.  And, I would really like the amp module top/center.  (And if not top/center, then one top/left and the other top/right.

So, I modified it like your cut & paste.  The is essentially layout #1, but given the taller case I can position the power supply further to the right of the amp to get more room to keep the cables apart at all points.

I think the cable lengths will be fine now, but if someone can provide the actual provided cable lengths, I'll do a final check on that.  (And then, I'll start woodcutting, sanding, and finishing!)

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/planviewoflayoutv3.jpg (http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/planviewoflayoutv3.jpg)

Thanks!

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: doug s. on 18 Aug 2012, 03:16 pm
mark, my only suggestion now, is that you make the case a bit wider, so as to be able to slide the p/s a bit further to the right.  you can always extend the width of the case to the left, if you still want the amp module to be in the exact center.

and, (even if you don't enlarge the case), move the power wiring as far to the right as possible. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66562)

doug s.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jackman on 18 Aug 2012, 04:18 pm
http://www.audio-magic.com/Prod-PulseGenZX.html

Best,

Anand.

I think their website has been hacked. It doesn't look right. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 18 Aug 2012, 05:05 pm
Quick question, Doug...on moving the PS and power inlet/power switch to the right...is that just to get more room between the power cables and the XLR & speaker out cables or for another reason?  Just curious.

I came up with a revised way to build the frame that ends up behind the face plate that will buy be some more room, so I will be able to move the PS a bit further away (both up/down and left/right) from the NC400 module.  Instead of using any wood in the frame, the frame will be 100% aluminum (combination of 0.75-1" extruded "L"-shaped stock and 1-2" extruded flat stock plus a thin aluminum backing plate with added support from a couple rigid flat stock ribs across the width).  As a result, the total size of the box won't increase, but the interior room will.  This will also be more durable than having the wood standoffs.  (And all 3 sides that will be visible behind the face plate will still be covered in fabric to hide the structure yet allow airflow...)

And, the total cost of the cases will be less than a pre-bought case!

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ted_b on 18 Aug 2012, 05:06 pm
I think their website has been hacked. It doesn't look right.

Yep.  Well, here's a review, with product info.
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue43/audiomagic_pulse_zx.htm
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: doug s. on 18 Aug 2012, 06:44 pm
Quick question, Doug...on moving the PS and power inlet/power switch to the right...is that just to get more room between the power cables and the XLR & speaker out cables or for another reason?  Just curious.

I came up with a revised way to build the frame that ends up behind the face plate that will buy be some more room, so I will be able to move the PS a bit further away (both up/down and left/right) from the NC400 module.  Instead of using any wood in the frame, the frame will be 100% aluminum (combination of 0.75-1" extruded "L"-shaped stock and 1-2" extruded flat stock plus a thin aluminum backing plate with added support from a couple rigid flat stock ribs across the width).  As a result, the total size of the box won't increase, but the interior room will.  This will also be more durable than having the wood standoffs.  (And all 3 sides that will be visible behind the face plate will still be covered in fabric to hide the structure yet allow airflow...)

And, the total cost of the cases will be less than a pre-bought case!

Mark
yes - keep the power cables separated from the speaker and input cables.  good idea to use something w/smaller dimension inside the amp, to maximize interior room.

doug s.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 18 Aug 2012, 08:16 pm
Super - that's why I thought you made the suggestion.  I just go back from buying parts for my custom case.  I'll be finalizing/double-checking exact dimensions, then starting to cut metal tomorrow.  As soon as it starts to take shape, I'll post some early pix.  I did find one special touch...I was looking for metal in Home Depot, and they have some nice satin finish aluminum to be used as a kick panel on a door.  The finish was so nice, so I bought some to use as the "back" (in my case, bottom) panel and under the amp.  So, any exposed metal (including that through the "window") will have a nice satin finish aluminum look.  It's not thick enough to be used on its own, so I will bond it to the main structural layer.

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jackman on 19 Aug 2012, 12:17 am
Yep.  Well, here's a review, with product info.
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue43/audiomagic_pulse_zx.htm

Looks cool but the website is not working right.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: bhakti on 19 Aug 2012, 12:52 am
Looks cool but the website is not working right.

They don't have a website.  Either out of business or off the world wide web.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: *Scotty* on 19 Aug 2012, 01:34 am
http://www.highend-electronics.com/12.html
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 20 Aug 2012, 01:17 am
Here's the 1st image of my 1st chassis.  Parts for the 2nd are cut and de-burred...I just need to drill holes and bolts it all together.  Recall these will be wall-mounted.  The left side in this photo will be "up", and the connectors will be to the right side of this photo.  The top in this photo (which will face the room) will be poplar, with a circular "window" cut over the NC400 module with dark smoked glass covering the window - so you can "see the core"!  I hope to get the 2nd chassis assembled tomorrow and at least the 1st poplar top cut and the edges routed into a nice rounded/tapered edge.

The cutouts show approximately where the NC400 and power supply will go, and the pipe cleaners show approximate wire locations.  Also, the open sides and part that will face up will remain open, but there will be "grill cover" fabric over the exposed aluminum to keep out dust and critters.  Finally, I figured out a way to make the poplar easily removable, so I will have easy access to show off the parts to friends, change fuses, etc.

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/2012-08-19_20-49-56_49.jpg)

More later as I make progress...the next photo will be of the poplar tops in place.  My NC400 and PS won't ship until mid-September, but various connectors will be arriving this week.  I'll install those as they arrive so when the modules arrive, I am ready to hook them up & jam!

Thanks to all for your input on my project!

Mark (PS to rclark...yes...it will be built balanced!  Ready and waiting for that XSP-1!!!)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: secretriches on 20 Aug 2012, 04:19 pm
I've been listening to my NCore now for about 2 months and thought I'd share my chassis design. Top is 1/4" aluminum with hole cut and covered with 1/16" solid bronze plate. Wood is 3/4" rosewood. Bottom is 1/4" aluminum with plenty of ventilation holes.

I really like the speed and dynamics of this amp but have been reluctant to provide a detailed review yet. The amp is burned in and I'm not quite pleased with the mid range (flat) or the amount of air I'd like in the treble. I kind of concur with some others that the NCore has plenty of power and initially sounds exciting but there's something missing. Rather than dwell upon that, I'll be receiving a new Arion amp and will be able to compare the two in about a month. At that time, I'll be better able to share my experience.

My system consists of a MacMini and Oyen FW drive for music server, Zodiac Gold DAC with Voltikus power supply, and a pair of absolutely incredible LaHave Audio Mela monitor speakers. These monitors are up there with TAD monitors and are incredibly revealing. The Zodiac is also very transparent and I'll ultimately be able to tune my final system with speaker and XLR balanced cables. Right now cables are Grover Huffman.

The wiring inside the NCore I built is all 7n Neotech solid copper with teflon. The connectors on the back are one great big huge Furutech IEC, a pair of Cardas patented binding posts, and a beautiful pair of Furutech high end XLR female chassis connectors. From my experience building numerous amps using wood and 1/4" aluminum, it would be hard to build a better chassis sonically. Switch on the front is 20A from the UK.

I'll be back in about a month with some initial observations between the NCore and Arion.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66641)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66642)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66644)



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66643)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66645)


Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Atlplasma on 20 Aug 2012, 05:04 pm
I've been listening to my NCore now for about 2 months and thought I'd share my chassis design. Top is 1/4" aluminum with hole cut and covered with 1/16" solid bronze plate. Wood is 3/4" rosewood. Bottom is 1/4" aluminum with plenty of ventilation holes.

I really like the speed and dynamics of this amp but have been reluctant to provide a detailed review yet. The amp is burned in and I'm not quite pleased with the mid range (flat) or the amount of air I'd like in the treble. I kind of concur with some others that the NCore has plenty of power and initially sounds exciting but there's something missing. Rather than dwell upon that, I'll be receiving a new Arion amp and will be able to compare the two in about a month. At that time, I'll be better able to share my experience.

My system consists of a MacMini and Oyen FW drive for music server, Zodiac Gold DAC with Voltikus power supply, and a pair of absolutely incredible LaHave Audio Mela monitor speakers. These monitors are up there with TAD monitors and are incredibly revealing. The Zodiac is also very transparent and I'll ultimately be able to tune my final system with speaker and XLR balanced cables. Right now cables are Grover Huffman.

The wiring inside the NCore I built is all 7n Neotech solid copper with teflon. The connectors on the back are one great big huge Furutech IEC, a pair of Cardas patented binding posts, and a beautiful pair of Furutech high end XLR female chassis connectors. From my experience building numerous amps using wood and 1/4" aluminum, it would be hard to build a better chassis sonically. Switch on the front is 20A from the UK.

I'll be back in about a month with some initial observations between the NCore and Arion.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66641)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66642)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66644)



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66643)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66645)

Just curious about the efficiency of your LaHave speakers. Several reviewers have commented that the Ncores are not particularly impressive when driving efficient speakers.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: secretriches on 20 Aug 2012, 05:20 pm
My Mela speakers are 87.5db which are perfect for NCores. Really good match. I also have over 20db gain which is adjustable on my Zodiac when running balanced outputs. I can set the amount of gain from the stepped attenuator pre section but I'm still using factory setting which is just right. I also have Zu Superfly, 16ohm, 101db efficient speakers and the NCores were not a good match. You are correct about that.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 20 Aug 2012, 05:37 pm
I'll disagree as I've heard them on 87dB speakers, my 95dB speakers and 101dB speakers. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Atlplasma on 20 Aug 2012, 05:47 pm
I'll disagree as I've heard them on 87dB speakers, my 95dB speakers and 101dB speakers.

Perhaps it is a generalization. Maybe other components in the chain (along with recording quality) become more important as speaker efficiency increases. I like the way the Ncores sound in my system with 88 dB speakers.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 21 Aug 2012, 03:56 pm
Fantastic fun seeing images of custom builds. 

I've read a lot of Ncore user posts.  I never concluded any direct cause-effect correlation between Ncore performance and speaker sensitivity.

Conversely, in my single experiment, Ncore performance seemed at least two steps improved into 10.6 Ohm minimum load impedance vs. (otherwise identical) 2.8 Ohm minimum load impedance.  Speaker sensitivity in this case is 88 dB.     
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: passingthrough on 21 Aug 2012, 05:34 pm
Code: [Select]
Fantastic fun seeing images of custom builds.
+1, some really nice examples.  The rosewood and aluminum case by secretriches is gorgeous.  It's too bad there seem to be no companies selling cases using fine woods like this, that would be a nice alternative to all of the metal cases that are available.

I've designed my case for a stereo build with a viewport lens on the front panel and will post photos once I get the final touches done or may wait until my Ncores arrive.  I see that mkcarnut has done something similar but with wall mounted monoblocks -- looking forward to seeing the final result on those.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Regnad on 21 Aug 2012, 06:29 pm
Just so the low end of the efficiency scale is represented, the NCores also sound terrific with 81dB mbl speakers.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Aug 2012, 06:31 pm
Just so the low end of the efficiency scale is represented, the NCores also sound terrific with 81dB mbl speakers.
Which model?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 21 Aug 2012, 07:17 pm
Which model?

Wow!  Cool!  Load impedance?   :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Regnad on 21 Aug 2012, 09:36 pm
Which model?
Wow!  Cool!  Load impedance?   :thumb:

They're 101e MKIIs stated to be 4 ohms but I have not seen a plot.   As you can imagine, it's amazing to see those little boxes and hearing what they can do.  Also, 19 watts draw!!

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Aug 2012, 09:38 pm
They're 101e MKIIs stated to be 4 ohms but I have not seen a plot. 
Test it yourself!
http://www.woofertester.com/wt2product.htm

Quote
As you can imagine, it's amazing to see those little boxes and hearing what they can do.  Also, 19 watts draw!!
:thumb:

Fantastic speakers btw
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 21 Aug 2012, 11:46 pm
Progress update:  the aluminum structures for both cases are built, and now I am on to woodwork.

In the photo below, to the right, you see a cardboard "prototype" of what the overall size and plan view will actually be.  On the left, you see a piece of poplar cut to length/width sitting on top of one of the cases.  In the middle is a piece of poplar showing the edge rounded and routed (1/2" rounded cut) as it will be for the faces (This is from me testing to fine-tune my router to the right depth).  FYI, the face is sized such that when the cables are plugged into the bottom, you won't see the connectors - only the wires hanging down.


(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/case-wood2.jpg)


I need to stop and get some new smooth-cut jigsaw blades and some sandpaper to get the basic rounded edges done well - then I will round corners and router both faces.  And, my smoked glass should be ready this week also.  With that, the faces will be ready to finish.  Then, I'll begin working on the plate that the inputs/outputs go to!

Also, I am quite glad to see others like passingthrough are putting a window/viewport in.  The very title of this thread inspired me to put one in:  "Show us your core"  You betcha...here's the window!

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 21 Aug 2012, 11:47 pm

Fantastic speakers btw

DI-to! 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Atlplasma on 30 Aug 2012, 11:51 pm
Several owners have commented on how revealing the Ncores are. I just played a DVD-A of Roy Orbison's Black and White Night, and it sounded pretty weak (and I love Roy). In contrast, I now playing a DVD-A of Neil Young's Harvest, and it sounds stellar (and I've always been ambivalent about the sound of his singing voice).

Just another observation for what it's worth...
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: passingthrough on 11 Sep 2012, 04:01 pm
My "Fire in the Hole" stereo build.  The viewport is making use of what was meant to be a volume knob cutout and uses a convex lens with a focal length where the LED's are located on the raised/angled NC400.

I didn't cut the rounded sides of aluminum tags too cleanly so I'll probably end up removing those and just put a small tag on the left case edge.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67559)

Off:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67560)

On:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67561)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67562)

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: satfrat on 11 Sep 2012, 04:12 pm
My "Fire in the Hole" stereo build.  The viewport is making use of what was meant to be a volume knob cutout and uses a convex lens with a focal length where the LED's are located on the raised/angled NC400.

On:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67561)



Is that suppose to portray the tube-like sound of the NCore?  :lol:

Sure does look nice tho, congrates on a unique build.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: passingthrough on 11 Sep 2012, 04:18 pm
Thanks Robin.  It wasn't tube envy, it was me wanting to use this case I found but not knowing what to do with a center volume knob and then deciding to just make that my huge LED "On" indicator.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67563)


Because of the lens the LED's are not always so bright unless you are straight on.  Here's a side shot.

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: satfrat on 11 Sep 2012, 04:26 pm
Thanks Robin.  It wasn't tube envy, it was me wanting to use this case I found but not knowing what to do with a center volume knob and then deciding to just make that my huge LED "On" indicator.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67563)


Because of the lens the LED's are not always so bright unless you are straight on.  Here's a side shot.

It was just a 1st impression which made me chuckle.  :jester: My 2nd thought was that because I own Butler tube hybrid amps and I love the tube's blue glow that blends in with all my other components blue LED's (no red at all),  I would have gone with blue LED's myself. But regardless, I like your idea,,, a lot. Thanks for sharing.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: lowtech on 11 Sep 2012, 04:35 pm
My "Fire in the Hole" stereo build.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67563)

Off:

Awesome build!  You should name it HAL.  :)

(http://voicegal.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/hal_9000_1279206348.jpg?w=150&h=112)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: passingthrough on 11 Sep 2012, 04:36 pm
Yeah, I liked the idea of seeming to show a glowing tube too.

Regarding using blue LED's, those aren't my LED's.  It's a row of red LED's that Hypex puts on each of the NC400 units.   I like the old school red rather than blue with my gear so that was a bonus.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: satfrat on 11 Sep 2012, 04:58 pm
Yeah, I liked the idea of seeming to show a glowing tube too.

Regarding using blue LED's, those aren't my LED's.  It's a row of red LED's that Hypex puts on each of the NC400 units.   I like the old school red rather than blue with my gear so that was a bonus.

Mmmmm, knowing that, I'm surprised no one has mentioned that bit of info,, or maybe I just missed it?  :scratch: Definitely good to know, especially for the old school DIY'ers.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 11 Sep 2012, 05:09 pm
Those LED's actually serve a purpose as you probably know from reading the data sheet.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: satfrat on 11 Sep 2012, 06:18 pm
Those LED's actually serve a purpose as you probably know from reading the data sheet.

Well 1, I'm not a DIY're and 2, I don't have the finances to even consider a purchase so all I know about this D-Class amp is what I've read here in your Circle and haven't really took a personal interest in anything else, other than a shared curiosity as to how they'd sound in my system.

But thanks Jason for letting me know that the LED's actually serve a purpose other than aesthetics, whatever that purpose might be.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin

edit:http://www.hypex.nl/docs/NC400_datasheet.pdf
 ,,, I found this in Q&A thread, I'll take a look.
  :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 11 Sep 2012, 06:20 pm
Well 1, I'm not a DIY're and 2, I don't have the finances to even consider a purchase so all I know about this D-Class amp is what I've read here in your Circle and haven't really took a personal interest in anything else, other than a shared curiosity as to how they'd sound in my system.

But thanks Jason for letting me know that the LED's actually serve a purpose other than aesthetics, whatever that purpose might be.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin

Gotcha.  Basically they're a function check.  If all the LED's do not come on then there is an issue. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Regnad on 11 Sep 2012, 09:01 pm
Hi,  I believe that the LEDs serve as voltage regulators, which if off would also, of course, indicate a failure.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 12 Sep 2012, 01:06 am
I love the fire in the hole!  My parts arrive tomorrow, and my custom-made cases are ready to drop in the amp modules and power supplies & then wire it all up.  So, over the next few days I'll be putting my monoblocks together.  Per my prior photos, I have a window to the core on mine, also...it's dark smoked glass at the same diameter as the amp modules.  My monos will hang on the wall behind my speakers...can't wait to see the glow!!!  I'll post updated photos once they are ready to "glow"...

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 14 Sep 2012, 02:29 am
I got one of my two monoblocks built and running...worked first try!  Thanks to all who gave me advice and answers to my questions as I planned my build.  With your help, it really was quite easy (other than my poor eyesight making it challenging to see well enough to solder!).

Here are a few pix of it.  As a reminder, I custom-made the cases out of aluminum and poplar in a design that hangs on the wall behind my speakers, and I included a smoked glass "window" to be able to see the LED's...my version of "fire in the hole".  Note that I still have some finishing to do.  I have cable-securing connectors I will put in to hold the cables down in the best pathways possible...as is, some cables are now held down and others are not & are thick enough that they won't follow my prescribed pathway until I secure them.  But, I am not getting any noise at all right now, so this will just be a precaution and to make them look "tidy" inside. 

Note that the poplar cover easily lifts off w/o unscrewing/unbolting anything...in case I want to change a fuse or just see the "guts".

And, right now, the sides and the top (as they hang on the wall) are open.  I have materials to make "grill covers" to cover up the rough aluminum and keep out dust/spiders/etc...but my dear seamstress wife who will help me make them (she doesn't know that yet...) is occupied with one of her freelance costuming jobs right now doing the costumes for a large play.  So, I have to fit my pet projects into her work schedule...

Anyway...a few pix...

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/2012-09-13_21-05-47_724.jpg)

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/2012-09-13_21-06-11_284.jpg)

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/2012-09-13_21-07-38_560.jpg)

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/2012-09-13_21-10-47_915.jpg)

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: RogerSch on 14 Sep 2012, 02:52 am
Hi Mark, as I told you on the Emotiva forum, it is visually a very nice build. I wished I was creative like that. I used just simple black cases..

I'm curious how the NCore400 will compare to your XPA-2!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 14 Sep 2012, 09:22 pm
Thanks!  And I can't take all the credit for creativity...I was looking at pix in this thread and there's the one with a cool wooden base and fin that comes up from the base, with nice heat sinks that the LED's are glowing out of.  Seeing that really got me thinking "out of the box" and led to my design.

After my daughter's soccer game tonight, I will build #2 then I can compare to the XPA-2.

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: audio-heaven on 14 Sep 2012, 10:03 pm
Thanks!  And I can't take all the credit for creativity...I was looking at pix in this thread and there's the one with a cool wooden base and fin that comes up from the base, with nice heat sinks that the LED's are glowing out of.  Seeing that really got me thinking "out of the box" and led to my design.

After my daughter's soccer game tonight, I will build #2 then I can compare to the XPA-2.

Mark
Very nice work, I hope you enjoy them when they're both finished  :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 15 Sep 2012, 07:36 pm
They are done and sound spectacular!  Here are some pix of them in my system (that's them hanging on the wall behind the Maggies), and a couple shots up close:

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/Home%20Theater/IMG_1110.jpg)
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/Home%20Theater/IMG_1117.jpg)
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/Home%20Theater/IMG_1116.jpg)
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/Home%20Theater/IMG_1115.jpg)
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/Home%20Theater/IMG_1114.jpg)
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/Home%20Theater/IMG_1112.jpg)

I'll try to post a detailed review soon...still doing more listening today.

Thanks again to all who helped w/ideas and input and answers to questions!

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Meicheng on 15 Sep 2012, 07:43 pm
Holy moly, thats what I call a man-cave.  Great job.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Regnad on 15 Sep 2012, 07:59 pm
Is that a Thorens TD-160?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 15 Sep 2012, 08:03 pm
Nice job!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Regnad on 15 Sep 2012, 08:08 pm

Just took this while listening, NCores are in dual mono cases, originally I was going to bridge but now have ordered NC1200s.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67768)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 15 Sep 2012, 09:11 pm
Thanks guys!

regnad...your setup looks great!  And you are close on the TT...it's a TD166 Mk II.  I've had it since it was new in the early 80's.

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 15 Sep 2012, 09:47 pm
mkcarnut

Build looks good with the exception of the speaker output wires.  You want them to go out on the same side of the terminals.  This is very important according to Bruno.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 16 Sep 2012, 01:05 am
thanks for the tip...just to check that I know what you mean...as is, I have the hot side coming into the amp output from the outside edge of the amp and the neutral side coming into the amp output from the inside edge.  You are saying that both should either come in from the inside edge or from the outside edge...right?

If so, I am failing to understand what difference that makes...the connector doesn't know/care which side the wires are coming in from.  Or, is the point really that both should come in from the outside-edge-in to avoid the speaker likes being over the amp's circuitry directly?

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 16 Sep 2012, 01:36 am
thanks for the tip...just to check that I know what you mean...as is, I have the hot side coming into the amp output from the outside edge of the amp and the neutral side coming into the amp output from the inside edge.  You are saying that both should either come in from the inside edge or from the outside edge...right?

If so, I am failing to understand what difference that makes...the connector doesn't know/care which side the wires are coming in from.  Or, is the point really that both should come in from the outside-edge-in to avoid the speaker likes being over the amp's circuitry directly?

Mark

See this link as it's perfectly clear.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore-430.html#post3045504
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 16 Sep 2012, 02:13 am
Thanks for the link, but...that does not make it perfectly clear to me.  It doesn't say anything more than you said.  Can you explain to me what is perfectly clear to you?

If what Bruno is trying to say is that both lines from the amp out to the binding posts should come off the side of the binding posts closest to the outside edge of the amp module to avoid the neutral wires going over the circuitry of the amp module, that makes sense (but I don't read his comments that way as they are written).  But if this is about the hot and neutral can't go out opposing sides of the outputs - I really don't get it and would love to understand.

I can easily re-wire that part of the build, but I would like to understand the basic rationale better before I do.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 16 Sep 2012, 02:16 am
Thanks for the link, but...that does not make it perfectly clear to me.  It doesn't say anything more than you said.  Can you explain to me what is perfectly clear to you?

If what Bruno is trying to say is that both lines from the amp out to the binding posts should come off the side of the binding posts closest to the outside edge of the amp module to avoid the neutral wires going over the circuitry of the amp module, that makes sense (but I don't read his comments that way as they are written).  But if this is about the hot and neutral can't go out opposing sides of the outputs - I really don't get it and would love to understand.

I can easily re-wire that part of the build, but I would like to understand the basic rationale better before I do.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Mark
Did you follow the link that I provided?  See the picture?  See the quote from Bruno?  I don't know what else to say.   :scratch:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 16 Sep 2012, 03:00 am
Think loop and EMI.....
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: gstew on 16 Sep 2012, 04:14 am
I've seen this mentioned a number of times, but have a slightly different interpretation...

What Bruno wrote was:

"correct: do twist the speaker wiring and PLEASE do not have them come out of the opposing sides of the screw lugs. This makes a big pickup loop right next to the output inductor."

I take this to mean that you do want the speaker wire twisted and you don't want to have them coming out of the opposite sides of the lugs. And that this is to reduce the pickup loop size.

Given this, I suspect coming off the same sides of the lugs toward the center of the module is ok, same sides of the lugs away from the center of the module is better (loop farther away from EMI-producing parts), and near sides of the lugs would be best (very little loop if they are twisted tightly from there).

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67797)

You can't see it from this angle, but the wire rises straight up from the lugs about 1" before curving towards the output connectors in my implementation.

My 2 cents.

Greg in Mississippi
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jmbulg on 16 Sep 2012, 07:42 am

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/klinemj/Home%20Theater/IMG_1114.jpg)


Thanks again to all who helped w/ideas and input and answers to questions!

Mark
Very nice cases!. I would however twist the loudspeaker cables differently: you have twisest two positive cables(red greeen) with each other and also two negatives (blue white) which is meaningless.
The twisting is meant to help cancel radtion from positive and negative to cancel.

So you should twist
red with blue   
green with white
(and possibly twist the the two twisted pair together for the final touch).

An as other say, avoid the large open loop between positive and negative cable at the connector
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: audio-heaven on 16 Sep 2012, 09:23 am
Very nice cases!. I would however twist the loudspeaker cables differently: you have twisest two positive cables(red greeen) with each other and also two negatives (blue white) which is meaningless.
The twisting is meant to help cancel radtion from positive and negative to cancel.

So you should twist
red with blue   
green with white
(and possibly twist the the two twisted pair together for the final touch).

An as other say, avoid the large open loop between positive and negative cable at the connector
Absolutely jmblug is right, to cancel noise the positive and negative should always be twisted together.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 16 Sep 2012, 11:23 am
Quote
Did you follow the link that I provided?  See the picture?  See the quote from Bruno?  I don't know what else to say.   

I followed the link, but the picture was not able to load.  Looks like it's no longer linked.  Hence my response...sorry if it upset you for me to re-ask, but with what I could see your input was not (and still is not understood).  I even scanned several pages back and forward in that chain to hopefully find more.

To the others who elaborated - thanks for the correction on the winding...I get that - my mistake as I got twisting away not thinking about that!

As far as the other point jwtrace was making...I can easily move the line that's enters the neutral side to the other side.  No big deal there, but from the comments from others it sounds like 1 school of thought is for them to come out of the same sides of the output connectors (which is what Bruno said) and another is to reduce the gap between the sides, which would mean both should be connected from the middle of the output connectors.  Did I interpret the comments right?  In any case, either way I go - the distance between the 2 sets of wires is shorter than they are now and no wire will go over the EMI-producing circuitry.

I'm not having the slightest issue w/any hum or noise right now, but I'll just go move the one to the center to match what Bruno said as I re-twist the wires.  It's easy enough to do.

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 16 Sep 2012, 11:45 am
I followed the link, but the picture was not able to load.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67800)

Originally Posted by Bruno Putzeys 
do twist the speaker wiring and PLEASE do not have them come out of the opposing sides of the screw lugs. This makes a big pickup loop right next to the output inductor.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 16 Sep 2012, 11:48 am
As far as the other point jwtrace was making...I can easily move the line that's enters the neutral side to the other side. 
I'm not speaking anything about the power side. As I said above, the output wires.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 16 Sep 2012, 12:47 pm
There are three possibilities: opposite outsides, opposite insides, one outside/one inside. The goal is to make the loop area as small as possible. Which arrangement accomplishes this? If tightly twisted, it is the opposite insides position.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: studley on 16 Sep 2012, 01:12 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67800)

Originally Posted by Bruno Putzeys 
do twist the speaker wiring and PLEASE do not have them come out of the opposing sides of the screw lugs. This makes a big pickup loop right next to the output inductor.


The confusion about this arises from the differing interpretations of Bruno's use of the word "opposing" (as distinct from opposite which is open to even wider interpretation).  I believe in this context opposing means facing one another i.e. the inside entry points into the 2 lugs.  Hence the correct wiring shown in the picture shows one wire entering from the inside of the lug  and the other wire entering from the outside of the lug.  So if I'm right, and I've understood what gstew was saying correctly, then he has got it wrong.

PS. Tripe Face Boogie via my ncores sounding great as I type this   8)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 16 Sep 2012, 02:17 pm
Disregard the words and focus on the intent. If you wire these to minimize the loop area, you will have the correct arrangement. Is there a loop in the above photo?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jonbee on 16 Sep 2012, 03:54 pm
Built my amp yesterday. After obtaining all the parts, it took me about 5 hours, and worked fine right off the bat.
Kudos to all for their input, and particularly to member HT cOz for his chassis (see his ad in the Commercial Zone for more info). Having the case precisely cut, drilled, and countersunk saved a ton of work.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67805)
Nothing too special here. I used Cardas copper speaker terminals, WBT solder, neutrik xlr. Speaker terminal wire is a hybrid 5 nines silver and PCOCC copper/foamed teflon. (I've re-twisted and re-routed the AC leads slightly since this pic was taken.)
It sounds quite nice out of the box, a bit forward in the upper mids overall, but very similar to Jason's monoblocks as far as I can recall. My feeling is that while this amp as it sits is not the best I've heard in all areas,  and perhaps not over all, it takes the honors for my needs and budget. For under $1800 total, plus my labor there is no competition new or used that I've heard for my system, taste and purposes. The transparency, dynamics, immediacy and bass control are truly remarkable.
I'm using a new (for me) balanced preamp (Bel-Canto Pre3) and XLR ICs (Discovery Essence) with Acoustic Zen Satori bi-wire and my Selah Tempestas. I need to let it run in for quite awhile before I embark on any changes. Right now I'm really enjoying the music.  :thumb:

I want to thank Jason again for the tour. I'd been a class d amp user for a long time (this is my 9th or 10th), and have eyeballed the n-cores with great interest. There's no substitute in this hobby for hearing a prospective component in one's own setup, and his offer was a godsend.

BTW, can anyone comment on how their sound quality changed during burn in?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: gstew on 16 Sep 2012, 06:00 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67800)

Originally Posted by Bruno Putzeys 
do twist the speaker wiring and PLEASE do not have them come out of the opposing sides of the screw lugs. This makes a big pickup loop right next to the output inductor.


Just to be clear on where I was coming from....

The text I quoted by Bruno is in post #2840 of the monster DIYAudio NCore thread.

The picture that is often shown associated with Bruno's remarks is in a post by Mr_Push_Pull, #2846 of that thread. The picture appears to be taken from a shot of an NC400 Bruno is holding from the 6Moons Audio Industry Features piece on the NCores. But it was not posted by Bruno as an example supporting what he said.

Again, all Bruno said was "do twist the speaker wiring and PLEASE do not have them come out of the opposing sides of the screw lugs".

He never said have them come out of the same side of the lugs, even though he does show one wired up that way in another context.

The common interpretation of Bruno's comment seems to be 'Having the wires coming from the same sides of the lugs'.

My interpretation is 'minimize the non-twisted portion of the speaker wires'. This can also be done by bringing them from the adjacent sides of the lugs and if done correctly, can better minimize the non-twisted portion.

Bruno, if you are reading this, feel free to differ with me! Sorry, not trying to cause a controversy here!

Greg in Mississippi
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: saisunil on 16 Sep 2012, 06:13 pm

Nothing too special here. I used Cardas copper speaker terminals, WBT solder, neutrik xlr. Speaker terminal wire is a hybrid 5 nines silver and PCOCC copper/foamed teflon. (I've re-twisted and re-routed the AC leads slightly since this pic was taken.)

I'm using a new (for me) balanced preamp (Bel-Canto Pre3) and XLR ICs (Discovery Essence) with Acoustic Zen Satori bi-wire and my Selah Tempestas. I need to let it run in for quite awhile before I embark on any changes. Right now I'm really enjoying the music.  :thumb:


That sir is special!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 16 Sep 2012, 06:41 pm
jonbee - looks great!

Others debating the "opposing"...the comment above ("The confusion about this arises from the differing interpretations of Bruno's use of the word "opposing"...") rings home to me from my first read of the "manual" for the 400's and power supplies.  I found a lot of wording that for me I could interpret more than 1 way.  Luckily - with help from you guys who have studied this a bit more than others + the pretty good pace of responses from Hypex, we can get that wording clarified.

I'm going to move mine to the location jwtrace shows in that photo and be happy.  Heck, I'm happy now - mine sounds great...no noise at all and very good detail in all forms of music I have tried.  I would not even bother to do that, but I had a little "cleanup" to do inside each case anyway so I'll take an added 5 minutes to re-twist my wires and reconnect them in the spots shown.

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Phil on 16 Sep 2012, 09:44 pm

It sounds quite nice out of the box, a bit forward in the upper mids overall, but very similar to Jason's monoblocks as far as I can recall.

BTW, can anyone comment on how their sound quality changed during burn in?

Although some have said burn-in is a matter of hours, in my system it seems that something like 200+ hours were needed (maybe more, I didn't track it closely since, overall, the sound was good out of the box and only got better) until the HF was not too forward.  Two factors may be at work here:  my ears (very fussy with HF) and the speakers (tend to highlight forward HF).  The speakers also highlight any noise.  Given there is no noise with these amps, it all sounded excellent after 50 hours or so (seemed to cycle through the typical burn-in before that).  Could this also be a factor of binding posts, etc. used?  Don't know.  Do run them in at high-ish volume when you can.  Please let us know if they change in a month or so.

Eventually, you might want to try one Audio Magic Pulse Gen X inside the case:  http://www.audio-magic.com/Prod-PulseGenZX.html

Phil
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jonbee on 17 Sep 2012, 03:31 am
Eventually, you might want to try one Audio Magic Pulse Gen X inside the case:  http://www.audio-magic.com/Prod-PulseGenZX.html
Phil
I've been looking at those. Do you use it?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Phil on 18 Sep 2012, 01:26 am
I've been looking at those. Do you use it?

I do.  Had it installed with a switch and the switch is now always in the ON position.   :D
YMMV, but had verification from one other listener that is makes a positive change. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: satfrat on 18 Sep 2012, 02:59 am
I do.  Had it installed with a switch and the switch is now always in the ON position.   :D
YMMV, but had verification from one other listener that is makes a positive change.

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ajst2duk on 21 Sep 2012, 12:41 am

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68103)


In keeping with the "fire in the hole" theme - nowhere near as creative as the most recent additions though, my hat is off to you guys.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jonbee on 21 Sep 2012, 03:34 pm
It sounds quite nice out of the box, a bit forward in the upper mids overall, but very similar to Jason's monoblocks as far as I can recall.
Just a quick update-
After ~30 hours on the amp, all trace of excess forwardness is gone. I have no complaints at all with this amp; the change from my cullen modded Icepower PS Audio GCC500 amp is an unqualified success.
While the nCores do not do everything better than the best I've heard in every aspect of reproduction, overall they are most satisfying, in a very practical and well priced package.
Certainly the PS Audio amp, which I used happily for 3 years is not shamed by the Ncore, but the Ncore brings me closer to all the music, with no downside.
I could easily leave well enough alone, but at some point I will replace the stock power input and signal input wires, upgrade the IEC and XLRs, and maybe add the audio magic gadget. I'm in no hurry to do so, however. I've got so much music to listen to!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mkcarnut on 21 Sep 2012, 09:37 pm
I'm finding I am liking mine more and more.  They really are special.

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Sep 2012, 09:44 pm
I'm finding I am liking mine more and more.  They really are special.

Mark

I agree!
Title: Dual Mono in Galaxy 330 x 280
Post by: EuroDriver on 28 Sep 2012, 01:33 pm
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68390)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68391)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68392)

Galaxy 330 x 280 case with new 3mm front panel, 3mm back panel and 2.5 mm top and bottom covers from www.schaeffer-ag.de/en (very pleased with the quality of the cut outs

Oyaide IEC socket, Supra Lowrad mains cable

Mundorf silver-gold teflon insulated wiring for speaker output to WBT NextGen binding posts

Mundorf silver solder

Layout philosophy - keep the input, power supply and loudspeaker wires as far apart as possible and at  90 degrees if possible.  Diagonal placement of SMPS helps keep the wires apart.  Tightly twisted speaker wires go vertically up to high mounted speaker binding posts.   

I don't know if it will make a discernable sonic difference, but I have done the easy tweaks I know
Title: Re: Dual Mono in Galaxy 330 x 280
Post by: ajst2duk on 29 Sep 2012, 09:58 am

Galaxy 330 x 280 case with new 3mm front panel, 3mm back panel and 2.5 mm top and bottom covers from www.schaeffer-ag.de/en (very pleased with the quality of the cut outs

Oyaide IEC socket, Supra Lowrad mains cable

Mundorf silver-gold teflon insulated wiring for speaker output to WBT NextGen binding posts

Mundorf silver solder

Layout philosophy - keep the input, power supply and loudspeaker wires as far apart as possible and at  90 degrees if possible.  Diagonal placement of SMPS helps keep the wires apart.  Tightly twisted speaker wires go vertically up to high mounted speaker binding posts.   

I don't know if it will make a discernable sonic difference, but I have done the easy tweaks I know

Looks great - I'm sure it will be stunning - look forward to hearing the review of listening experience

AJ
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: santacore on 29 Sep 2012, 05:51 pm
Nice build! I bought the same speaker posts for mine, I hope they work well.
Title: Galaxy 330 x 280 - a few more details and suggestions
Post by: EuroDriver on 29 Sep 2012, 07:35 pm
- To stiffen up the top and botton covers, I had some 16 mm MDF cut to 80 mm x 50 mm and glued then with epoxy to the middle of the front and rear panels.  I then used M3 20mm long wood screws to screw down the top and bottom covers.

- Dynamat Extreme applied to the inside of the top cover.

- I would recommend a MDF center post, screwed from top and bottom to cut down on vibrations further.  One could use another piece of Galaxy side extrusion, but MDF is a lot cheaper

- I had my covers drilled with 3 holes on each side for fastening to the side extrusions.  I would recommend four holes to get a really good tight fit. 

After my experience with how accurately my local "Baumarkt" cuts MDF I would the next time around build a case with double wall side panels of 12 mm MDF and aluminium 2mm sheet from Schaeffer epoxied together.  Fronts would be 3mm and I would be tempted to have 3 mm to and bottom covers as well

I would make the chassis about 380 x 280 to allow more space for keeping lots of air, the best dielectric, between the wires
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jackman on 8 Oct 2012, 04:02 pm
Hi Guys,

Just wanted to post a couple pix of my new addition.  It sounds great and the workmanship is excellent.   The person I purchased this from originally built it and decided to take a different route, so it became available.  He put heat-sinks, EMF shields and really nice Diamond Racing cones on it and used top quality wire and really nice binding posts.  Also, the case is really nice looking with good ventilation. 

You can see the heat-sinks in the bottom photo.  I know they are not required but they can't hurt. 

Sorry for the camera phone pix but it's the best I can do at the moment. 


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69007)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69008)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69009)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jonbee on 8 Oct 2012, 04:28 pm
Nice, Jack and EuroDriver. Some nice touches there. The ERS sheets and heatsinks are nice touches, as well as the parts upgrades.
I'm puttig together a list of upgrades to add to mine when I get the time and urge. Thanks to all for adding their experiences. Spending a little extra for the upgrades is well worth it, IMO, in the context of the performance to be had in the basic config.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Rclark on 8 Oct 2012, 06:32 pm
Looks really nice Jackman, I think dual mono makes the most sense with this amp.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: tktran303 on 13 Oct 2012, 01:46 pm
Finally assembled my dual mono nCore.

I used a bottom mounted on/off switch, located at the front left of the chassis.

All AC input, SMPS600 power supply harness and speaker output cable twisted.

The the flash overexposed the colour of the blue/white wires of the Mogami/QuietConduit input cable so they both appear white, but my wiring is as follows:

XLR pin 1 to ground of chassis
XLR pin 2 to blue wire of input cable
XLR pin 3 to white wire of input cable
Ground of chassis to shield/sheath of input cable.

I use the Modu Slimline Case in full aluminium as well, with a black front panel. It's a nice case that comes with various heights and depths, but I wanted something in the standard 19" rack width, and 2 or 3U height. The 2U height is not quite high enough to mount the NC400 on the side panel heatsinks, but with a 3U version of this case you could mount as many NC400 on the side heatsinks as you could fit!

If only Hypex sold a multi-channel wiring harness so you could easily connect one SMPS600 to 2 or 3 NC400 modules.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69257)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69258)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69259)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 13 Oct 2012, 02:09 pm
I would move the power input wiring farther away from the smps to amp wiring on the left side....
Title: Re: Dual Mono in Galaxy 330 x 280
Post by: turbogti on 14 Oct 2012, 11:26 am
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68390)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68391)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68392)

Galaxy 330 x 280 case with new 3mm front panel, 3mm back panel and 2.5 mm top and bottom covers from www.schaeffer-ag.de/en (very pleased with the quality of the cut outs

Oyaide IEC socket, Supra Lowrad mains cable

Mundorf silver-gold teflon insulated wiring for speaker output to WBT NextGen binding posts

Mundorf silver solder

Layout philosophy - keep the input, power supply and loudspeaker wires as far apart as possible and at  90 degrees if possible.  Diagonal placement of SMPS helps keep the wires apart.  Tightly twisted speaker wires go vertically up to high mounted speaker binding posts.   

I don't know if it will make a discernable sonic difference, but I have done the easy tweaks I know

very nice built with very good choices of cables, binding etc... please let us know how it sounds!
Title: Dual Mono NCore in Galaxy 330 x 280 - sound after 1 and 2 weeks
Post by: EuroDriver on 14 Oct 2012, 08:06 pm
Posted under US listening tour even though the system is in Germany

My comments on the NCores compared to the W4S ST-500 After a week of operation

-  The bass is visceral, very clean and strong.  Very noticeable on the double bass notes, there is much less flopping around and wooliness.  I almost don’t need the subwoofer anymore

-  The realism of the voices is eye opening (Patti Barber, Diana Krall), but the tone color is noticeable cooler than the ST-500 but not to an extent that bothers me any more after several hours of listening

-  My B&W 805 Diamonds are not very dynamic, but with the NCores driving them I no longer have any complaints about lack of dynamics

-  I am a detail freak, and the NCores delivery it in spades with new little details that I did not notice before.  The extra detail is a bit of a double edged sword.  There is a lot more of reverberation detail perceptible from the speakers, but I have found on certain classical orchestral recordings, this extra detail actually makes the focus of the sound stage significantly worse than it was with the ST-500.  What I had to do was to increase the area of sound absorption panels [GIK 244] between the speakers, and then everything snapped into focus superbly.

Summary, I am a happy camper, with no significant down sides

Comment after 2 weeks

The sound has clearly improved from a week ago, the tone has become warmer, so my only mild criticism has now gone ! Voices have acquired more texture, live performances, sound even more live, I am going wow every minute or so on familiar tracks

The transparency and detail of the Ncore has had some unexpected consequences.  I have a Velodyne 1200 SPL Ultra hooked up to the single ended outputs of the Audiolab 8200 CDQ, whilst the XLR's feed the power amp.  The output stage of the CDQ is not designed to drive both XLR and single ended simultaneously.  With the ST-500, I could not detect any sound quality degradation using both sets of outputs, however with the NCores I do notice a degradation.  I have now totally disconnected the subwoofer and single ended IC's from the CDQ, but because the bass is so strong with the Ncores, I don't miss subwoofer !

I believe the NCores deserve a better DAC and I am looking at the NAD M51.  That's the problem with the NCore, you want to start upgrading the source components 


Audiolab 8200CDQ > Wireworld Eclipse XLR > dual mono Ncore > inAkustik LS803 > B&W 805 Diamond

Supra Lorad AC cord > Oyaide IEC 
Neutrik XLR > NCore > Mundorf Ag/Au Teflon wire > WBT NextGen Mundorf  Ag solder
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: steve_sf on 10 Nov 2012, 10:17 pm
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70644)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70645)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70646)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70648)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70649)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70650)

Aluminum chassis obtained from:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/JC2109-Full-aluminum-Power-amplifier-chassis-AMP-Enclosure-case-BOX/621172993.html

Chassis includes fused IEC inlet. They have a lower-profile version that probably works just fine. I went overkill on the cooling ability just in case the room gets hot. Also, I think the fins look cool.  :D The e-tailor takes credit card and shipping is fast, albeit expensive. Total price is comparable to other options I've seen, though. The store has a good selection of chassis:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/800514/search?SearchText=Chassis

Wire (1 ft), XLR sockets and binding posts from Handmade Electronics:
http://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1125&idcategory=145
http://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=2515&idcategory=0
http://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=440&idcategory=0

Binding post holes are 1/2 inch. XLR socket holes are 7/8 inch. Had to go to a specialty hardware store for the 7/8 inch drill bit as Home Depot/Lowes didn't stock it. Bought 250V/10A ceramic fuses for the IEC inlets at Fry's.

Been running the amps since October 22 and must say they sound phenomenal. The ncore trounces my Nuforce REF 9SEv3 amps w/CMA upgrade for musical realism, finesse and bass. Not bad for an $1800 BOM set of amps to soundly beat $5k+ units. I predict I will be happy with these amps for a very, very long time -- at least until Bruno comes out with something better. Cheers to Mr. Putzeys for making these available to the DIY community.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jonbee on 11 Nov 2012, 01:25 am
Not bad for an $1800 BOM set of amps to soundly beat $5k+ units. I predict I will be happy with these amps for a very, very long time -- at least until Bruno comes out with something better. Cheers to Mr. Putzeys for making these available to the DIY community.
My thoughts exactly. We should feel fortunate that for a few hours work those of us that are even a little handy can put these together as a fun, straightforward, well documented project and end up with with these stunning results.
After a couple of months I love mine, as have all who have heard it here.
The Hypex business model is very unusual, to say the least, and I wish them well.
BTW, do you fine the brand of stout shown is optimum for the amp?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 11 Nov 2012, 02:15 am
Looks really nice Jackman, I think dual mono makes the most sense with this amp.

That could be true.  It might also be true that it's system dependent. 

The greater the amp current capacity the more should the following be weighted (one SMPS600 per NC400 is 2-Ohm rated and appears to pass considerably more current than average). 

The more difficult is the speaker load the more does cable length affect performance.  The more cable length affects performance the quicker does performance drop per each unit of increased speaker cable length.  The shorter the amp-to-speaker distance the shorter the speaker cable. 

Mono blocks allow the shortest speaker cables. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ufokillerz on 15 Nov 2012, 06:07 pm
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/ufokillerz/IMG_20121026_205358.jpg)
got my 3 ncores done!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 Nov 2012, 07:44 pm
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/ufokillerz/IMG_20121026_205358.jpg)
got my 3 ncores done!

Very nice!  For dedicated HT only or music/HT?  AFAIK you're only the second person to build three NC400. 

My system is dual-use music/HT, employing pure analog Trinaural for music.  Trinaural's 3.1 (or 3.0) output fixes stereo's well-documented defects described by stereo inventor Alan Blumlein, AES papers, and Stereophile.  Trinaural has 3.1 HT Bypass. 

If the HT employs front projector and retractable perforated screen there is no negative impact on music and audio/music performance for the HT is ideal (better than any wall-mounted screen).  Spatial performance is ideal because such screen is acoustically transparent and allows speakers to be spaced from the front wall (both impossible with any wall-mounted screen regardless of composition). 

So Trinaural improves both music and HT performance.  The cost (Trinaural, 3rd/center speaker and amp matching the L/R) is far less than an entire 2nd system for HT and its required real estate.

Maximum screen size is limited to the distance at which pixels become visible.  I'm quite sure several screen manufactures have no practical minimum limit for custom sizes.  IOW, you might consider such dual-use system even in a smaller room with smaller-than-normal retractable screen.  It's purely personal, but I prefer the cosmetics of a front projector and retractable screen vs. any wall mounted TV.  In use, the fan-controlled cooling system of my five year old Mitsubishi 1080P front-projector is dead silent directly over my head on a 91" ceiling.  (After turning it off, fan speed sometimes increases to become barely detectable, but only within a few feet.)           
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ufokillerz on 15 Nov 2012, 07:54 pm
Very nice!  For dedicated HT only or music/HT?  AFAIK you're only the second person to build three NC400. 

My system is dual-use music/HT, employing pure analog Trinaural for music.  Trinaural's 3.1 (or 3.0) output fixes stereo's well-documented defects described by stereo inventor Alan Blumlein, AES papers, and Stereophile.  Trinaural has 3.1 HT Bypass. 

If the HT employs front projector and retractable perforated screen there is no negative impact on music and audio/music performance for the HT is ideal (better than any wall-mounted screen).  Spatial performance is ideal because such screen is acoustically transparent and allows speakers to be spaced from the front wall (both impossible with any wall-mounted screen regardless of composition). 

So Trinaural improves both music and HT performance.  The cost (Trinaural, 3rd/center speaker and amp matching the L/R) is far less than an entire 2nd system for HT and its required real estate.

Maximum screen size is limited to the distance at which pixels become visible.  I'm quite sure several screen manufactures have no practical minimum limit for custom sizes.  In use, the fan-controlled cooling system of my five year old Mitsubishi 1080P front-projector is dead silent directly over my head on a 91" ceiling!  (After turning it off, fan speed sometimes increases to become barely detectable, but only within a few feet.)           

I am more HT then music. I do have a projector, but unfortunately it is a living room area, and not a dedicated listening space. I have a 106" tab tensioned screen and a jvc projector i got 2 years ago. I have a 80" sharp 3d/led hdtv as well.

These amps weren't actually built by me, i had all the parts, and sent them over to a amp builder i've bought from since the early 2000's, head-fi builder.  He took 3 months to build them, but the guy does a ton of research, reading all the threads here and over at diyaudio. Prior to this, my L/C/R were powered by a ati3000 series amplifier, then red dragon audio m1000 monoblocks.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dr.sah on 20 Nov 2012, 03:34 pm
hi guys, this is my hypex nc400. Didn't build myself.

(http://s9.mojalbum.com/6949509_17394116_20283349/hi-fi2/20283349.jpg)
(http://s9.mojalbum.com/6949509_17394116_20283352/hi-fi2/20283352.jpg)
(http://s9.mojalbum.com/6949509_17394116_20283353/hi-fi2/20283353.jpg)
(http://s9.mojalbum.com/6949509_17394116_20283354/hi-fi2/20283354.jpg)
(http://s9.mojalbum.com/6949509_17394116_20283355/hi-fi2/20283355.jpg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 20 Nov 2012, 04:06 pm
hi guys, this is my hypex nc400. Didn't build myself.
Nice job to your builder!   :thumb:

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on them sonically. 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ufokillerz on 21 Nov 2012, 06:57 am
hi guys, this is my hypex nc400. Didn't build myself.

(http://s9.mojalbum.com/6949509_17394116_20283349/hi-fi2/20283349.jpg)
(http://s9.mojalbum.com/6949509_17394116_20283352/hi-fi2/20283352.jpg)
(http://s9.mojalbum.com/6949509_17394116_20283353/hi-fi2/20283353.jpg)
(http://s9.mojalbum.com/6949509_17394116_20283354/hi-fi2/20283354.jpg)
(http://s9.mojalbum.com/6949509_17394116_20283355/hi-fi2/20283355.jpg)

wow those look excellent, mind sharing where those originated from?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dr.sah on 21 Nov 2012, 09:53 am
the case is custom build from profiles:
http://www.fischerelektronik.de/web_fischer/de_DE/Gehäuse/M1.05/Kombinationsgehäuse/PG/KO_R2/index.xhtml (http://www.fischerelektronik.de/web_fischer/de_DE/Gehäuse/M1.05/Kombinationsgehäuse/PG/KO_R2/index.xhtml)
http://www.fischerelektronik.de/web_fischer/de_DE/Gehäuse/M1.05/Kombinationsgehäuse/PG/KO_H4A/index.xhtml (http://www.fischerelektronik.de/web_fischer/de_DE/Gehäuse/M1.05/Kombinationsgehäuse/PG/KO_H4A/index.xhtml)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: santacore on 20 Dec 2012, 04:46 pm
I bought these months ago, but just built them days ago. Went through a house move and lot's of work, which kept me very distracted until now.

I built these into 2 Silicon Ray cases sourced from the group deal. Overall the build went smooth and the cases worked well. My only real issue is that I'm using Furutech XLR's which stick out further then the Neurtik's from the original plan. My XLR wiring ends up being extremely close to the amp module. Outside of that everything is fitting pretty nicely together. I fired them up for the first time today and they both seem to be functional. Now that they are verified to work I will throw them in my main rig with my Marten Forms.

John


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=72573)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=72574)

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: DaveX on 26 Dec 2012, 04:54 pm
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj40/Borat69/P1000243_zpse7a1644f.jpg)
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj40/Borat69/P1000245_zpscf79fc86.jpg)
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj40/Borat69/P1000250_zps1b7655f2.jpg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mr_bill on 26 Dec 2012, 05:01 pm
Hi Dave
How did you get the faceplates screened with Ncore  -  those look cool.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: DaveX on 26 Dec 2012, 05:23 pm
Hi Dave
How did you get the faceplates screened with Ncore  -  those look cool.

Hi, I sent them to www.evans-graphics.co.uk
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Paulkouhan on 3 Jan 2013, 06:55 pm
the case is custom build from profiles:
http://www.fischerelektronik.de/web_fischer/de_DE/Gehäuse/M1.05/Kombinationsgehäuse/PG/KO_R2/index.xhtml (http://www.fischerelektronik.de/web_fischer/de_DE/Gehäuse/M1.05/Kombinationsgehäuse/PG/KO_R2/index.xhtml)
http://www.fischerelektronik.de/web_fischer/de_DE/Gehäuse/M1.05/Kombinationsgehäuse/PG/KO_H4A/index.xhtml (http://www.fischerelektronik.de/web_fischer/de_DE/Gehäuse/M1.05/Kombinationsgehäuse/PG/KO_H4A/index.xhtml)

Hello,

I am very interested in these cases.

In the link you gave us, I do not find any case longer than 234 mm !!?
(available length : 100 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 220 / 234 mm)

Do you use 2 cases for 1 bloc  ?  (200 + 100 mm ?)

thanks for your help !









Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 5 Jan 2013, 02:34 am
Took the NCore to the boutique:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73324)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73325)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73327)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73328)

Summary of mods:


Cardas Quad Eutectic Solder used. All soldered joints cleansed with Pure Gold.

Jury is out on sonic improvements, but I think it 'looks' better!  :lol:

Best,
Anand.

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mjock3 on 5 Jan 2013, 05:03 am
Looks sharp Anand!

Mark
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: drmike on 5 Jan 2013, 05:52 pm
hello anand,
do the cardas xlr's fit into the same size hole as the neutrik? where did you get the toggle switch (part #)?
thanks,
drmike
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 5 Jan 2013, 06:14 pm
hello anand,
do the cardas xlr's fit into the same size hole as the neutrik? where did you get the toggle switch (part #)?
thanks,
drmike

Yes, the Cardas does fit into the Neutrik.

The toggle switch, you can get it from Digikey: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/A101SYZB04/450-1522-ND/1021809

Best,
Anand
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: drmike on 5 Jan 2013, 06:41 pm
thanks,
drmike
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 6 Jan 2013, 04:08 pm
Cardas Quad Eutectic Solder used.

And does it make a difference compared to "regular" non-RoHS  solder?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 6 Jan 2013, 04:20 pm
And does it make a difference compared to "regular" non-RoHS  solder?

If you ask others, they will say it will help sonically, blah, blah. I use it cause it flows easily, and I have it here on hand (I purchased it years ago). People always ask what did you use, etc...so to answer to the diy'ers I mentioned it  :icon_lol:

Basically, the mods I did above were a lot of bling. I only did them since I was going to replace the original Mogami with Hypex's new input cable anyway, and since I took the thing apart, well...

I haven't listened to the unit critically yet...I have been thrilled with the stock unit in all honesty. And aural memory sucks for me for the most part. I strongly doubt night and day differences.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 6 Jan 2013, 07:04 pm
If you ask others, they will say it will help sonically, blah, blah. I use it cause it flows easily

That is a very good reason - I am really annoyed with most RoHS solders, and have stocked up on the Good Old Stuff.

Quote
I haven't listened to the unit critically yet...I have been thrilled with the stock unit in all honesty. And aural memory sucks for me for the most part. I strongly doubt night and day differences.

I have the same problem - I can tell if something sounds good or not, but don't ask me if it sounds better than something I heard last week... That is why (for myself) I believe in ABX if I want/need to know if something *really* was an improvement.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: santacore on 9 Jan 2013, 04:45 am
I finally gave my monoblocks a run today. Zero noise from the speaker and beautiful dynamic sound. I will need to let these play for a while before really commenting on sound. My quick summary is they sound excellent and are very well balanced.

Has anyone else tried playing with different fuses in these? If so, what are your results? Am I reading the board correctly in saying they are 5A slow blow fuses?

Cheers.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jugi6 on 6 Feb 2013, 10:01 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=74909)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=74910)


My take on the NC400. Not totally satisfied with the front plate - may do it again with a different finishing. It's a kind of a copy of Tenor. So maybe I should call the amp TenCore.   :lol:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jugi6 on 6 Feb 2013, 11:08 pm
Anand, Julf... I also replaced the stock power cable with proper (Belden) cable. I think it's an absolutely essential tweak for every one. The difference is not small. The bass (besides going down with authority) now makes the proper foundation to the music. Fills up the soundstage and also, like with properly set up subwoofers, lets the high frequencies also shine (I believe that has to do with the ambiance sounds being delivered within the low frequencies.)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 7 Feb 2013, 08:41 am
Anand, Julf... I also replaced the stock power cable with proper (Belden) cable. I think it's an absolutely essential tweak for every one. The difference is not small.

Have you verified your impression with a double-blind ABX?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jugi6 on 7 Feb 2013, 11:59 am
Oh, come on Julf... a seasoned and experienced audiophile knows when there's a difference. But if you don't "believe" in cable differences, then that's OK.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 7 Feb 2013, 12:13 pm
Oh, come on Julf... a seasoned and experienced audiophile knows when there's a difference.

Oh, come on, Jugi...:)

Anyone who has been involved with audio for long enough knows how fallible the human brain is, and how strong perceptual biases can be. There has been a number of times I have been absolutely convinced I can hear a clear difference, only to be proven wrong when I take part in some proper, rigorous double-blind ABX.

If you believe you have golden ears, then that's of course OK.

I have been an engineer long enough not to base my decisions purely on subjective and unverifiable impressions - but I guess a large part of the high-end audio business (or whatever is left of it) would disappear if everybody would share my belief system :)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Bubbleboy76 on 10 Feb 2013, 11:02 pm
My 3 monoblocks with bridged nc400 and SMPS1200A400, built by my friend Georg.

We have compared them against the standard nc400+SMPS600 in a dual-mono config today. The bridged ones sounds much more "alive", and they are not even runned in. The standard ones sounds flatter. Less dynamics.

The monoblocks has version 4 of nc400. The dual-mono has version 3. What was the changes made in version 4?

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75138)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75139)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75140)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75141)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rilke1999 on 11 Feb 2013, 08:00 am
Plain vanilla ncore 400 build for my neighbour ,...

Http://Erich.nullo.de

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: FloridaBear on 15 Feb 2013, 06:16 pm
First monoblock is complete. Took a couple "glamour shots" that I thought I'd share. I may rework the power connections a little, otherwise I think it looks pretty good. Sounds good, too!


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75363)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75364)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75365)


Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Rclark on 15 Feb 2013, 07:29 pm
That is a sweet looking faceplate! Gotta love these might little amps.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Shaman on 16 Feb 2013, 02:46 pm
Do Siliconray still ship the same back panel with these enclosures?
I recall there was a second version with proper Neutrik fit and different binding post spacing.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: FloridaBear on 17 Feb 2013, 02:12 am
Do Siliconray still ship the same back panel with these enclosures?
I recall there was a second version with proper Neutrik fit and different binding post spacing.

That is the Siliconray case above; it was ordered in January but I had to wait for new cases to come in. As far as I know, that is the current back panel they are shipping (except for the power switch hole which I drilled).

As far as the Neutrik fit, I tapped the Neutrik holes to M4 threads, but I could not get the screws to thread because the holes do not quite line up. I ended up using M3 screws with nuts on the back instead.

It wouldn't be my ideal choice for layout (but it's not bad); but I imagine if you inquired with them you could get a blank back panel shipped instead. I may still inquire about getting a couple panels shipped and drill the way I want them.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 17 Feb 2013, 03:49 am
It wouldn't be my ideal choice for layout (but it's not bad); but I imagine if you inquired with them you could get a blank back panel shipped instead. I may still inquire about getting a couple panels shipped and drill the way I want them.

You can indeed. That's what I did, see here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;image=73324)

Best,
Anand
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Shaman on 17 Feb 2013, 11:37 am
Thanks guys. So I guess there was no "official" update of the back panel design to fix the Neutrik issue.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ufokillerz on 26 Feb 2013, 05:17 am
finally added some airholes to my amplifiers, have the lids raised on 2 to see what kind of difference it makes, and will be separating the amplifiers soon.

(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/ufokillerz/IMG_20130226_000937_zps35fea0f7.jpg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: FloridaBear on 26 Feb 2013, 09:08 pm
finally added some airholes to my amplifiers, have the lids raised on 2 to see what kind of difference it makes, and will be separating the amplifiers soon.


Interesting ideas. I'm still considering what to do (if anything) about ventilation. Cases get to just over 100F after being on for several hours.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 27 Feb 2013, 06:46 am
100 F / 38 C is barely lukewarm, so you should not have any reason to worry.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: FloridaBear on 27 Feb 2013, 12:50 pm
100 F / 38 C is barely lukewarm, so you should not have any reason to worry.

That's kind of my thinking at the moment; and it takes quite some time for them to even get that warm.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ufokillerz on 1 Mar 2013, 12:34 am
freshly painted and looking awesome

(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/ufokillerz/IMG_20130228_191832_zps4c4de237.jpg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: sl_1800 on 1 Mar 2013, 01:42 am
freshly painted and looking awesome

(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/ufokillerz/IMG_20130228_191832_zps4c4de237.jpg)

That looks textured?  What paint did you use?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ufokillerz on 1 Mar 2013, 03:33 am
That looks textured?  What paint did you use?
rustoleum spray on bed liner.
i've used it for a ton of stuff and if its sturdy enough to be on the back of a truck, its good enough for my amps
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: tarnumf on 19 Mar 2013, 12:41 am
My fresh build of stereo amp using NC400's and SMPS1200A400 power supply. I decided on this setup as possible upgrade to bridging NC400.

Case - ebay, China - model 2210
Case feet - ebay, China -  30*14mm
Input and output connectors - Hypex shop

Tools: calipers, power drill, regular and step drill bits, Dremel (a must have), etc.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=77333)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=77334)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=77335)


Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: this_is_vv on 21 Mar 2013, 02:56 am
For 3 way active speakers its here..

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=77497)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=77498)

V
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: EuroDriver on 22 Mar 2013, 05:48 am
For 3 way active speakers its here..


V

Bruno's strong recommendation is to twist the speaker wires together to reduce magnetic coupling from the umbilical.  You might want to pass the twisted speaker wires through a single hole out of the back plate of your chassis and then connect to your speaker terminals
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: this_is_vv on 22 Mar 2013, 02:55 pm
Bruno's strong recommendation is to twist the speaker wires together to reduce magnetic coupling from the umbilical.  You might want to pass the twisted speaker wires through a single hole out of the back plate of your chassis and then connect to your speaker terminals

how can  i twist all three together??..sorry didnt get it?

V
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 22 Mar 2013, 03:01 pm
how can  i twist all three together??

Twist them together as pairs. As in "twisted pair".
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Speedskater on 22 Mar 2013, 04:57 pm
All unshielded paired (or multi-conductor) cables should be twisted. Be they speaker, interconnect or power.  It may reduce interference problems.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 30 Mar 2013, 04:27 pm
Labor and material cost increase, but I think it good for Bruno to switch to Canare Star Quad for the input wire (twice the # of smaller AWG conductors for closer proximity/less noise).     
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Jeff V. on 31 Mar 2013, 02:30 am
I built this pair of NCores about a year ago.  Recently a Friend & I have been working on some chassis ideas.  Here are some pics.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78009)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78010)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78011)


Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mr_bill on 31 Mar 2013, 06:06 am
That top plate is cool!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Jeff V. on 31 Mar 2013, 11:46 am
That top plate is cool!

Thanks! I wanted to add vents to the chassis & this is what we came with.  Going to make some more tops out of different materials & colors to see what else looks good.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: HighRez on 14 Apr 2013, 07:12 pm
Hello,

Figured I would join the crowd and show off my recently finished build of the Hypex NCore amps. I decided to build 2 X Dual Mono amps. I have seemed to run into an issue with one of the NC400 modules which will most likely require an RMA replacement and annoyingly delay my plans on running a quad amp setup on my B&W's but at least I have one Dual Mono to keep me occupied for now.

So far, sound quality is very impressive on there NCore's. My previous amp was a Pass Labs X250 so I am using that as my point of reference for comparison and thus far the NCore's are holding their own nicely. I feel its too soon yet to say which one I think sounds better but the fact that I am not immediately missing the SQ I was accustom to while using the Pass amp certainly speaks volumes to the NCore's potential as they break-in.

Now onto the build process:

Sizing up the 3mm thick Teflon sheet inside the chassis which will live under the SMPS600's. I choose to add this layer of Teflon for a few different reasons. One was in case I wanted to "Unearth" the chassis. Second, was to added additional dampening between the chassis base and the SMPS600. The aluminum chassis had some ringing properties to it when rapped with a knuckle which I wanted to minimize. Don't want that propagating into the signal chain. Lastly, It should help eliminate any stray voltages to the chassis, if they exist, by way of the SMPS.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78850)


7 X stacked SS washers to maintain contact between the metal standoff foot and the chassis.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78851)


Seeing double! The build is progressing nicely
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78852)


All wiring is complete. Much time and effort was taken to ensure both chassis's wiring is layed out and positioned in the same mannor as best as possible.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78853)


SMPS600's ready for action
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78856)


NC400's ready for action. I used dual runs of 14ga Mogami 2921 to each binding post... :banghead: I will also be using short 2ft runs of Mogami 2921 from the back of the amp to each speaker's dual binding posts. This allows me to maintain the same gauge and wire type from wafer board to speaker. I'm in no rush to attempt to wire this up again anytime soon  :banghead: :cuss:
 
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78857)


Furutech FT86F & Cardas Binding Posts. If I had to do this over again I think I would opt to not use the Furutech XLR's since their body is made of plastic and they were very difficult to get the cutouts correct for since they are not the standard shape. In addition, after inserting them into the holes the metal clips which are used to release the XLR cable seem to stay pressed in and require a long finger nail to pull them back out into their original starting position.

The Cardas posts are very sweet but again I question weather the effort involved in getting those holes correct was worth it or not. Ignoring the odd shaped holes, the concept of how they work was very slick allowing you to fully pack the inside posts with wire to achieve a very direct connection with the spades on the outside of the chassis. They are also extremely solid once mounted on the chassis.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78855)


Schurter DC11 - 15amp IEC Input with Power Switch
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78858)


Chassis fully assembled with top cover in place. I designed the chassis myself using a CAD tool provided by the company who did the metal work. I can highly recommend them based on my experience during this build. See them here: http://www.protocase.com/

Another point of note if I had to do this again would be to place some cutouts above the NC400 modules as these seem to generate more heat then the SMPS600 do. I have been keeping an eye on the temps of the modules using my laser thermometer over the last day or so. With the chassis cover in place things seem to be fine even though there are no holes above the NC400 chamber.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78859)


Strategically placed "N" on each side the chassis to make it easier to tell what's going on inside. Plus it looks cool at night  :D
The wooden spoon is taking the place of my finger when powering on the chassis.. :lol: Haven't figured out the best way to test if it's live or not yet so the spoon will work for now.

Herbies stabilizer on top to minimize top cover vibrations & Cardas Myrtle wood blocks for feet.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78860)


Shot from back of the speaker where I plan to place each of the amplifiers. There will be one Dual-Mono amp per speaker with 1 x NC400 & 1 x SMPS600 powering each half of each channel. From here you can see the reasoning behind why I have the IEC power plug coming out of the other side of the chassis as it allows me to use short 2ft speaker cables like the owners who have a single mono build and also provides a straight shot from the IEC power cable into the dedicated wall outlets centrally located between both speakers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78861)


The brains of the operation. I reluctantly had to replace my Ayre Preamp & QB9 DAC in order to run multiple Ncore amplifiers. So far, the Classe doesn't seem to be taking a back seat to the Ayre while allowing for a whole host of other added features.
 
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78854)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 14 Apr 2013, 07:17 pm
Nice job!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: HighRez on 14 Apr 2013, 08:06 pm
Thanks
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 14 Apr 2013, 08:19 pm
So far, sound quality is very impressive on there NCore's. My previous amp was a Pass Labs X250 so I am using that as my point of reference for comparison and thus far the NCore's are holding their own nicely. I feel its too soon yet to say which one I think sounds better but the fact that I am not immediately missing the SQ I was accustom to while using the Pass amp certainly speaks volumes to the NCore's potential as they break-in.

They are both probably good enough that you wouldn't hear a difference. I haven't found anything in the ncores that would benefit from a break-in.

Quote
Sizing up the 3mm thick Teflon sheet inside the chassis which will live under the SMPS600's. I choose to add this layer of Teflon

The teflon will of course increase the thermal resistance and thus reduce cooling.

Quote
The aluminum chassis had some ringing properties to it when rapped with a knuckle which I wanted to minimize. Don't want that propagating into the signal chain.

Not sure about how that could possibly be propagated.

Quote
Lastly, It should help eliminate any stray voltages to the chassis, if they exist, by way of the SMPS.

The best way to deal with "stray voltages" is grounding. Isolation actually makes it worse.

Quote
Much time and effort was taken to ensure both chassis's wiring is layed out and positioned in the same mannor as best as possible.

So how do you define "best manner possible"?

Quote
I have been keeping an eye on the temps of the modules using my laser thermometer over the last day or so. With the chassis cover in place things seem to be fine even though there are no holes above the NC400 chamber.

So what temp do they run at?
 
Quote
The wooden spoon is taking the place of my finger when powering on the chassis.. :lol: Haven't figured out the best way to test if it's live or not yet so the spoon will work for now.

You haven't connected mains safety earth to the chassis?

Quote
Herbies stabilizer on top to minimize top cover vibrations & Cardas Myrtle wood blocks for feet.

Curious to hear why you think they would make any difference.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Bubbleboy76 on 14 Apr 2013, 09:24 pm
Very nice build HighRez! Especially, I like your chassis with separate compartements for power-supplies and amplifiers.
One improvement could maybe be to twist the cable-umbillical (or what it is called) between smps600 and nc400. I think that was recommended in the datasheet.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Atlplasma on 14 Apr 2013, 09:52 pm
Thanks for sharing the details of your build. Nice all around.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Atlplasma on 14 Apr 2013, 09:57 pm
I also meant to ask you about the 20 amp outlet at the back of your room. I am specing a media room for a new house and wondering if you have any recommendations. I am planning on two 20 amp circuits for the space.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 14 Apr 2013, 10:36 pm
HiRez!

Nice build!

Best,

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: HighRez on 14 Apr 2013, 10:58 pm
Thanks for the kind words and Thanks again to everyone else who has posted their own builds and experiences. All this information has been very valuable to me as I started down the path of my own build. Without all the information being shared from this community and I can say for sure that I would have never taken my first  plunge into the world of DIY audio.


Not sure about how that could possibly be propagated.

There seems to be enough discussion in audio land about vibrations being a bad thing in terms of electronic components to warrant taking extra steps to try and avoid it as much as possible. I don't find it too hard to imagine that a vibrating electronic component could cause some disturbance to a signals passing thru it verses one with less/no vibration. If the whole structure supporting an electronic component rings like a bell it can't be a good thing. I know I have read in the past about tube amps with vibrating tubes passing on this ringing sound upstream as audible output at the speaker.

So how do you define "best manner possible"?

Not sure there is really a need to define it, but i'll bite. In this case it was to ensure all wiring "came to rest" the same way across all the chassis's and maintained the same distance from other nearby components/wires across all chassis's. Considering my intended purpose with these amps I wanted to do my part in keeping them the same as much as possible to avoid any one amp sounding different then the other.    

So what temp do they run at?
 
Well it looks like the two windings wrapped in yellow plastic on each of the SMPS are the hot point there with temps reaching near 140deg at times with the laser beam pointing directly at them. On the NC400 I saw values in the 120deg range when pointing the beam at the  winding covered in black plastic just off to the right of the speaker post terminals.
You haven't connected mains safety earth to the chassis?

Yes mains is earthed. Being overly cautious I'm sure but couldn't find any good info on how to measure if a chassis is live or not.

Curious to hear why you think they would make any difference.

Not sure if it makes an audible difference or not but it sure stops the chassis from ringing when wrapping my knuckle on it while the Herbie device is in place. Without the Herbie device the ringing continues for up to 15 sec or more. The vents in the top have their benefits but they also seem to increase the ringing. The Cardas wood blocks are being used because they are cheap and I wanted something to keep the chassis elevated off its base.

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: HighRez on 14 Apr 2013, 11:11 pm
I also meant to ask you about the 20 amp outlet at the back of your room. I am specing a media room for a new house and wondering if you have any recommendations. I am planning on two 20 amp circuits for the space.

I also meant to ask you about the 20 amp outlet at the back of your room. I am specing a media room for a new house and wondering if you have any recommendations. I am planning on two 20 amp circuits for the space.

Hello,
In my room I have a total of X 4 dedicated 20amp circuits. The two plugs at the back of my room housed in the single mounting plate contain X 2 separate circuits. I am using the PS Audio Power Port AC receptacles in all cases and find them to be of high quality and they grip the power cables like nobodies business. All of the circuits in the room are wired with 10/2 Romex back to the breaker panel and are no more then 20ft long.

My room is still kind of under construction but I have the Preamp/DAC on one circuit and each of the Amps will have their own circuit. Probably overkill considering the measly 18ga wire inside the chassis feeding the NCore but I'm OK with overkill. :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 15 Apr 2013, 05:27 am
Thank you for your answers!

There seems to be enough discussion in audio land about vibrations being a bad thing in terms of electronic components to warrant taking extra steps to try and avoid it as much as possible.

Fair enough, but while microphony (a component picking up sound and mechanical vibrations) is/was an issue with valves/tubes, it is not really an issue with modern surface-mounted semiconductor circuits - especially a relatively small circuit board bolted to a solid metal support structure, as with the nc400.

Quote
Well it looks like the two windings wrapped in yellow plastic on each of the SMPS are the hot point there with temps reaching near 140deg at times with the laser beam pointing directly at them. On the NC400 I saw values in the 120deg range when pointing the beam at the  winding covered in black plastic just off to the right of the speaker post terminals.

Sounds like pretty normal temperatures. I assume those temps are in F (if they are in C, there might be more concern).
 
Quote
Yes mains is earthed. Being overly cautious I'm sure but couldn't find any good info on how to measure if a chassis is live or not.

If chassis is connected to mains earth, the way to find out if the chassis is live or not is to see if your circuit breaker trips. If it is not connected, you can just measure the AC voltage between the chassis and mains safety earth.

Quote
Not sure if it makes an audible difference or not but it sure stops the chassis from ringing when wrapping my knuckle on it while the Herbie device is in place. Without the Herbie device the ringing continues for up to 15 sec or more. The vents in the top have their benefits but they also seem to increase the ringing. The Cardas wood blocks are being used because they are cheap and I wanted something to keep the chassis elevated off its base.

Sure - and they don't do any harm anyway.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Active-6way on 3 May 2013, 08:48 pm
Hi,

Just finished the first of my 3 channel amps.  Will build myself an second one for my active Avalon Compas clone. Speaker is an active system with an minidsp driving 2x3 channels (high,mid,low)

The  enclosure for an HTPC made completedly of aluminium. The enclosure is only 6 cm high and 43 cm wide, but i had to do some tweaking to get everything in, so the backplate isn't that great looking anymore.... I am very pleased with the result only thing is there is an blue led in the front, does anybody know how to connect it and to make it work. Only need the light and won't make use of the switch...

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79768)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79769)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79770)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79771)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79774)


Sorry for picture quality took the shoots with my phone.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: HighRez on 11 May 2013, 11:18 pm
Hello,

Figured I would join the crowd and show off my recently finished build of the Hypex NCore amps. I decided to build 2 X Dual Mono amps. I have seemed to run into an issue with one of the NC400 modules which will most likely require an RMA replacement and annoyingly delay my plans on running a quad amp setup on my B&W's but at least I have one Dual Mono to keep me occupied for now.


Providing an update with some listening impressions now that I received my faulty SMPS600 back from RMA. I am now able to run both Dual Mono amps for the first time.

Before I move onto the difference with X 2 Dual Mono amps I will talk briefly about how things sound with X 1 Dual Mono amp powering both channels of my B&W 803Di2.

I have been running on one Dual Mono Amp for a few weeks now and felt I had a good handle on the performance of these impressive amps. With one Dual Mono I started to form an opinion that the NCore is one very truthful amplifier. It took me several listening sessions to figure out what I was hearing as compared to my previous amplifier setup. In the past I could always hear difference between "OK" Redbook recordings and Higher-fi Redbook recordings but now these differences are far more obvious. The NCore quickly puts bad recordings in their place and their is no way for them hide anymore. On the other hand, great recordings sound even better with me now being able to pickup on layers of the soundstage that I never knew where there. This is a well used Cliché I know, but it is what it is!

Whether these differences are the result of what seems to be a total lack of background hum/hiss/garbage I don't know but I am now able to hear a much more detailed soundstage then before.

With the single Dual Mono NCore setup bass quantity seems to be slightly less then it was before while using my Pass Labs X250 but bass quality, speed and definition goes to the NCore setup. It makes me wonder if the additional quantity of bass that I was  hearing with the Pass has to do with that amp injecting its sonic signature and the Ncore taking a far more neutral role in making music. This is interesting to me because it looked like driver cone movement was more under control with the Pass Labs amp in the signal chain then it was with the NCore.

In terms of how the NCore behaved when I began to crank the volume up towards the other end of the dial I could tell the hungry B&W's where wanting a bit more then what the single Dual Mono could provide. Although at no time did the NCore lose control, break up or sound distorted I could see the drivers were doing more work then I was comfortable seeing.


Fast Forward to a few days ago:

After what seemed like eternity I was finally able to hookup my system as I had originally planned all along which is running 1 X Dual Mono NCore amp per speaker.

With the new arrangement any previous lack of power has now been fully rectified. The best way I can describe the difference in sound can be summed up in one word: EFFORTLESS

Compared to running one Dual Mono amp the soundstage is now bigger, even more detailed and bass is rock solid given the same volume input. Driver movement is all but none existent even at law enforcement dispatching levels. I love it!

Its been a fun ride building these amps and I am very happy how everything turned out. I can see myself sticking with this setup for quite a long time and feel that I would be hard pressed to find something better without shelling out the price of a new car to beat it.

If anyone is on the fence about building one of these amps I can say now that I don't think you will be disappointed and all the Hype is well deserved.

Here's a few glamour shots of the final state:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=80326)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=80327)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ufokillerz on 1 Jun 2013, 05:52 am
2/3 of my amps rebuilt into new cases
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/ufokillerz/IMG_20130531_232946_zps4a26c7da.jpg) (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/ufokillerz/media/IMG_20130531_232946_zps4a26c7da.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: a.wayne on 26 Jun 2013, 06:25 pm
Providing an update with some listening impressions now that I received my faulty SMPS600 back from RMA. I am now able to run both Dual Mono amps for the first time.

Before I move onto the difference with X 2 Dual Mono amps I will talk briefly about how things sound with X 1 Dual Mono amp powering both channels of my B&W 803Di2.

I have been running on one Dual Mono Amp for a few weeks now and felt I had a good handle on the performance of these impressive amps. With one Dual Mono I started to form an opinion that the NCore is one very truthful amplifier. It took me several listening sessions to figure out what I was hearing as compared to my previous amplifier setup. In the past I could always hear difference between "OK" Redbook recordings and Higher-fi Redbook recordings but now these differences are far more obvious. The NCore quickly puts bad recordings in their place and their is no way for them hide anymore. On the other hand, great recordings sound even better with me now being able to pickup on layers of the soundstage that I never knew where there. This is a well used Cliché I know, but it is what it is!

Whether these differences are the result of what seems to be a total lack of background hum/hiss/garbage I don't know but I am now able to hear a much more detailed soundstage then before.

With the single Dual Mono NCore setup bass quantity seems to be slightly less then it was before while using my Pass Labs X250 but bass quality, speed and definition goes to the NCore setup. It makes me wonder if the additional quantity of bass that I was  hearing with the Pass has to do with that amp injecting its sonic signature and the Ncore taking a far more neutral role in making music. This is interesting to me because it looked like driver cone movement was more under control with the Pass Labs amp in the signal chain then it was with the NCore.

In terms of how the NCore behaved when I began to crank the volume up towards the other end of the dial I could tell the hungry B&W's where wanting a bit more then what the single Dual Mono could provide. Although at no time did the NCore lose control, break up or sound distorted I could see the drivers were doing more work then I was comfortable seeing.


Fast Forward to a few days ago:

After what seemed like eternity I was finally able to hookup my system as I had originally planned all along which is running 1 X Dual Mono NCore amp per speaker.

With the new arrangement any previous lack of power has now been fully rectified. The best way I can describe the difference in sound can be summed up in one word: EFFORTLESS

Compared to running one Dual Mono amp the soundstage is now bigger, even more detailed and bass is rock solid given the same volume input. Driver movement is all but none existent even at law enforcement dispatching levels. I love it!

Its been a fun ride building these amps and I am very happy how everything turned out. I can see myself sticking with this setup for quite a long time and feel that I would be hard pressed to find something better without shelling out the price of a new car to beat it.

If anyone is on the fence about building one of these amps I can say now that I don't think you will be disappointed and all the Hype is well deserved.

Here's a few glamour shots of the final state:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=80326)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=80327)

Hello,

Thanks  for the input and Interesting your comments on the bass and speaker movement , i have not heard the NCore stuff and my previous experience with class-d its at the frequency extremes is where i find them lacking , low bass and high frequency.

Glad you are happy and nice setup ....
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: barrows on 28 Jun 2013, 12:42 am
Here is my stereo nCore build.  Furutech rhodium IEC jack, Cardas rhodium XLRs, Cardas rhodium over copper binding posts, Cardas 11.5 gauge litz wire for speaker output-direct soldered to the boards, Cardas 15.5 gauge litz wire for AC power-direct soldered to the boards, Hi Fi Tuning Supreme fuses.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82779)


The amp now sounds great, I have some additional RF damping on the top cover, over the output area.  Break in was really long for me, with the amp gaining in body over time.  This was not a case of me getting used to it, as I was occasionally making comparisons versus my Pass X150.5.  Great amp all around, but not a good match for a lean system...
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: PeteG on 28 Jun 2013, 01:11 am
Barrows, very nice. Clean and neat.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: a.wayne on 28 Jun 2013, 01:54 am
+10 ,  Neat and clean layout Barrows, congrats .........................  :thumb:
Title: Really Nice ! Hi Fi Tuning fuses ?
Post by: EuroDriver on 28 Jun 2013, 04:46 pm
How difficult was it to remove the speaker terminals and solder direct to the board  ?

Have you had a chance to AB test the HiFi Tuning fuses with the OEM fuses ?

Have you considered adding a separating wall divider between the SMPS and the NCores

A really nice job !  Congrats !
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mjock3 on 28 Jun 2013, 05:03 pm
Nice looking amp Barrows. :thumb:

Wondering what the blue box is that is under the power lines?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: barrows on 28 Jun 2013, 08:06 pm
I did some very crude testing for RF emissions of the nCore modules and SMPS 600s during playback with them just sitting on an amp stand.  This allowed me to get the best ideas for where, and in what direction the airborne noise is worst, and I used this information to inform my layout in the chassis.  I found that by having a full size chassis I was able to get enough physical spacing between the modules to not be concerned about interference.  Note also that to make an effective shield for RF really requires aluminum at least a 1/2" thick, so distance really becomes the more practical method.
I would not recommend removing the speaker terminals for anyone who is not confident in their ablities, but it is not hard with a good temperature controlled iron, a solder sucker, and some patience.  You do have to remove the heatsink to do it properly, and the board is tight there, you really need to be careful not to heat things up too much, as it would be possible to damage the board and adjacent components.  I did it because the speaker terminals are brass, and the screws are steel, and I would rather not have those less conductive materials in the signal path.
The blue box is filled with some RF damping compound (secret formula, got to have some mysery right!), and no, I did not A/B the Supreme Fuses vs the OE ones, but they do have substantially less measured R than the stock ones.  The Supreme Fuses have proven to be good for me previously, so I just went ahead and added them.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Speedskater on 28 Jun 2013, 09:53 pm
.........
  Note also that to make an effective shield for RF really requires aluminum at least a 1/2" thick, so distance really becomes the more practical method.
..........

That's the thickness needed for power line frequency magnetic fields.  For Radio Frequency fields, only a foil thickness is needed.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: barrows on 28 Jun 2013, 11:56 pm
Speedskater: I am curious where you got this idea?  Try putting some Al foil around a radio and turn it on, guess what, you still receive stations…  Or try the following very simple test:  take a SMPS 600, and listen for airborne RF with small handheld radio (tuned low in the AM band where there are no stations) with earphones.  Once you get an idea where the field is strongest, and at what distance, then take your piece of Al foil and see how much effect it has on the level of noise picked up by the radio.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: HighRez on 29 Jun 2013, 12:03 am
Nice and clean looking Barrows.

Would it be possible to show some close up shots of your hard wired connections? I am curious especially with the IEC input connection to the SMPS600.

Thanks
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: HighRez on 29 Jun 2013, 12:05 am
Hello,

Thanks  for the input and Interesting your comments on the bass and speaker movement , i have not heard the NCore stuff and my previous experience with class-d its at the frequency extremes is where i find them lacking , low bass and high frequency.

Glad you are happy and nice setup ....

Thanks
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: *Scotty* on 29 Jun 2013, 12:07 am
Regardless of thickness it helps if the RF has somewhere to go,(ie,ground).
The only other Effective RF shield is a Faraday cage, which doesn't have to be grounded.
Scotty
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: barrows on 29 Jun 2013, 12:32 am
highres:  I am not up for opening the amp and taking lots more photos.  The connections are simple; I de-soldered the two pin plug, this exposes the  through plated holes in the PCB.  Then I cleaned these out of excess solder (sucker and solder wick) and then cleaned the area with flux cleaner.  Then, I soldered the (pre-tinned via solder pot) ends of the stripped Cardas wire into the PCB holes.  Finally I slid some short pieces of heatshrink over the opposite ends of the wire flush with the top surface of the pcb, and hit it with the iron to shrink it up, this gives a finished appearance at the top of the board and insulates.  I like the Cardas wire, but tinning it is a bit of a pain, nice thing is that the copper is totally protected from oxidation, and the Teflon insulation can take a lot of heat without melting.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: HighRez on 29 Jun 2013, 01:50 am
 :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl:     ....... :green:

It's all good, I understand
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Rclark on 29 Jun 2013, 05:46 am
Hirez did you still need pictures up close? I can snap some for you if need be. Mine were textbook built by JTWrace, who I'm sure used a robot or something.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: HighRez on 29 Jun 2013, 12:23 pm
If its not much trouble I would appreciate seeing any pictures you may have...  :thumb:

My curiosity is regarding what people are using for a dielectric/insulator between the hard wired wires where the posts previously lived.  Looks like there is a potential for Arching if not insulated in some way.

Thanks



Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 29 Jun 2013, 01:01 pm
Hirez did you still need pictures up close? I can snap some for you if need be. Mine were textbook built by JTWrace, who I'm sure used a robot or something.
I didn't solder direct to the board though. The pics are here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106187.msg1104426#msg1104426
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Speedskater on 29 Jun 2013, 01:24 pm
Speedskater: I am curious where you got this idea?  Try putting some Al foil around a radio and turn it on, guess what, you still receive stations…  Or try the following very simple test:  take a SMPS 600, and listen for airborne RF with small handheld radio (tuned low in the AM band where there are no stations) with earphones.  Once you get an idea where the field is strongest, and at what distance, then take your piece of Al foil and see how much effect it has on the level of noise picked up by the radio.

From the Henry W. Ott book 'Electromagnetic Compatibility Engineering', chapter 6 has 60 pages on shielding.

http://www.hottconsultants.com/EMCE_book_files/emce_book.html
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 29 Jun 2013, 05:57 pm
I'm sure it's well know, but just for the record universal industry standard is no OEM service available for any component hard soldered where OEM terminal was screw or quick-disconnect. 

Does Hypex publish Ncore tech/repair service data?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: barrows on 29 Jun 2013, 07:43 pm
If its not much trouble I would appreciate seeing any pictures you may have...  :thumb:

My curiosity is regarding what people are using for a dielectric/insulator between the hard wired wires where the posts previously lived.  Looks like there is a potential for Arching if not insulated in some way.

Thanks

As mentioned the wires are heatshrinked over the teflon right up flush to the surface of the board.  I would not worry about arcing though, on the underside of the board the pins of the AC header are totally exposed in stock condition.

Absolutely James, direct soldering like this will likely void warranty protection and serviceability.  If I was seeking service from Hypex on any of these modules, I would first return them to stock condition.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rogerdn on 13 Jul 2013, 07:19 pm
Dave at P.I. Audio graciously built this beauty for me, which sounds just stunning, liquid, dead quiet, with great dynamics and soundstage.  I have posted below his build notes he sent to me.  Dave said he would be glad to answer questions.....but....I got the 'last one'....he did it as a favor.

'I think that this particular amp is one that would satiusfy even a dedicated tube guy like me.  With the cryo, parts selection and all of the shielding that I did I think that made a pretty significant impact on that amp.

You can see the RFI/EMI shield that I built separating the power supplies from the amps.  It is made from mu-metal and copper sheet and foil over a masonite core.  The shield is electrically isolated from the chassis and is connected only to the ground pin on the IEC.

You can also see the copper foil shielding around the power supply leads and the ferrite beads on the power leads.  The rear panel has the Furutech IEC inlet and a better power switch.  I used a DPST switch and used both sides for power. The switch wire is enclosed in a shielded cable that runs almost completely in the power supply section of the amp as defined by the mumetal/copperfoil divider that I built for the amp. 

There is also a picture of thedamping pad on the bottom of the top coverplate.  It is covered with ERS cloth for RFI mitigation.  I didn't put any ERS under the power supplies so as not to interfere with any thermal dissipation through the bottom panel and I believe that one side is enough.
 
The amp plates have heatsink compound in the gap.  There is adequate interior space for circulation for the
power supplies with a small gap above and below the shield.'

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83471)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83474)


Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: JerryM on 13 Jul 2013, 07:28 pm
Very nice!!!   :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mjock3 on 13 Jul 2013, 07:46 pm
Very sharp, you have some nice ideas that were implemented.  :D
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rogerdn on 13 Jul 2013, 08:03 pm
Very sharp, you have some nice ideas that were implemented.  :D

Thks but they were all Dave's.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 13 Jul 2013, 08:34 pm
Wow! Looks great and nice ideas. I used a nice amount of shielding in a recent balanced AVC preamp build, and I might want to add some ERS to my own NCore build. Have to be careful in my situation since there is little space between the top cover and power supply heat sink.

Great build Dave! And congrats Roger!

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 13 Jul 2013, 08:39 pm
Beautiful - and perfect example of the adage "if it is worth doing, it is worth overdoing" :)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rogerdn on 13 Jul 2013, 08:45 pm
Beautiful - and perfect example of the adage "if it is worth doing, it is worth overdoing" :)

 :lol:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rogerdn on 13 Jul 2013, 08:52 pm
Wow! Looks great and nice ideas. I used a nice amount of shielding in a recent balanced AVC preamp build, and I might want to add some ERS to my own NCore build. Have to be careful in my situation since there is little space between the top cover and power supply heat sink.

Great build Dave! And congrats Roger!

Best,
Anand.

Anand, I should have clarified the ERS Dave did on the cover, the picture is an earlier one (and I did not retake ) as he removed some of it after listening more, here is his comment,

'One of the things that I did was reduce the size of the ERS cloth on the cover from the first time I listened to the amp.  The soundstage opened up quite a bit with that.  ERS is a funny material... very quirky in the way it behaves and interacts with electronics.  I removed it over the amp section of the chassis and left it over the power supply side'.

So less is more in this case apparently and you should experiment with the placement.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: James Romeyn on 13 Jul 2013, 09:05 pm
Very sweet dual mono Ncore!  One of the more interesting designs I've seen.  Good on Dave, good for you! 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 13 Jul 2013, 10:51 pm
Anand, I should have clarified the ERS Dave did on the cover, the picture is an earlier one (and I did not retake ) as he removed some of it after listening more, here is his comment,

'One of the things that I did was reduce the size of the ERS cloth on the cover from the first time I listened to the amp.  The soundstage opened up quite a bit with that.  ERS is a funny material... very quirky in the way it behaves and interacts with electronics.  I removed it over the amp section of the chassis and left it over the power supply side'.

So less is more in this case apparently and you should experiment with the placement.

I have heard that before, that TOO much ERS can dull the sound...

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: HighRez on 14 Jul 2013, 04:11 am
Very nice component layout and shielding choices.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 14 Jul 2013, 07:36 am
I have heard that before, that TOO much ERS can dull the sound...

How would that work?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 14 Jul 2013, 12:02 pm
How would that work?

Gee, I wish I knew! No objective measurements that I have seen/read to support that claim however, just anectodal (http://www.tweekgeek.com/audiophile-components/computer-audio/usb-power-supplies-digital-tweaks/stillpoints-ers-rfi-killer/) reports on the net...

However, in some analog circuits, the presence of EMI/RFI was tuned into the frequency response of the device. ers (http://www.stillpoints.us/ers.html) can effect of the amplitude of the high frequency and/or the low frequency extremes resulting in a less than desirable balance.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 14 Jul 2013, 12:18 pm
Gee, I wish I knew! No objective measurements that I have seen/read to support that claim however, just anectodal (http://www.tweekgeek.com/audiophile-components/computer-audio/usb-power-supplies-digital-tweaks/stillpoints-ers-rfi-killer/) reports on the net...

Ah, OK. Even if the ers stuff affected the circuits, it is rather unlikely that the effect would be as simple and straightforward as to "dull" the sound.


Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 14 Jul 2013, 12:27 pm
Ah, OK. Even if the ers stuff affected the circuits, it is rather unlikely that the effect would be as simple and straightforward as to "dull" the sound.

From the same link above:

Crossovers - Covering the top bottom and sides, as well as wrapping the internal wires. This method needs to be "tuned" to each individual system. You will know when you've added too much ers, when the highs start rolling off, or midrange detail starts disappearing. Be prepared to spend some time on this.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 14 Jul 2013, 12:35 pm
From the same link above:

Crossovers - Covering the top bottom and sides, as well as wrapping the internal wires. This method needs to be "tuned" to each individual system. You will know when you've added too much ers, when the highs start rolling off, or midrange detail starts disappearing. Be prepared to spend some time on this.


It does sound a bit too voodoo for my taste, but at least with a simple, analog crossover you might be able to show loss of upper frequencies if you add a lot of capacitive loading to the circuits. Slightly different story for active systems with feedback and amplification.

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 14 Jul 2013, 12:46 pm
It does sound a bit too voodoo for my taste, but at least with a simple, analog crossover you might be able to show loss of upper frequencies if you add a lot of capacitive loading to the circuits. Slightly different story for active systems with feedback and amplification.

It's not that it's a bit too voodoo, it is voodoo, until proven with measurements! So although I do have some ERS around myself to experiment with, I have absolutely no backup to know how it affects frequencies from 20kHz on down...which is probably why I haven't used it in years, cause I'm not sure if it works. I'm sure Dave of PiAudio has experimented with it tons and may know what measurements will point us to judiciously implement ERS. I can't make a direct connection between attenuation in the gigahertz/megahertz frequencies and how that affects human perception of stereophonic playback in a room!

Perhaps I need to read more! I admit my knowledge of RFI, EMI, and power line frequency shielding sucks big time  :duh:

Sorry for off topic rant...

Best,

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rogerdn on 14 Jul 2013, 07:25 pm
On the parts that were cryoed Dave says,

..... the power modules, the power supplies and all of the wiring.  My cryo tank is too small for a whole amp.
 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 14 Jul 2013, 07:39 pm
It's not that it's a bit too voodoo, it is voodoo, until proven with measurements!
Best,

Anand.
Yep.  The only thing I've ever done is put my cell phone on it and tried to call it.  It doesn't work whatsoever.  Take it off, it rings.  So it does block that FWIW.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 14 Jul 2013, 07:43 pm
Yep.  The only thing I've ever done is put my cell phone on it and tried to call it.  It doesn't work whatsoever.  Take it off, it rings.  So it does block that FWIW.

I don't think there is any doubt that there is some metal/conductive stuff in the material. I think the question is if it provides any benefit if your electronics are already in a metal enclosure. Have you tried to put your cell phone in a metal box and call it?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 14 Jul 2013, 07:47 pm
Have you tried to put your cell phone in a metal box and call it?
Yes, it usually rings.  On the ERS, it doesn't at all and shows no bars.  That's all the scientific data I have.   :duh:  It must be good though, I read it on AudioCircle.   :wink:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 14 Jul 2013, 07:53 pm
It must be good though, I read it on AudioCircle.   :wink:

:)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 14 Jul 2013, 09:17 pm
Yep.  The only thing I've ever done is put my cell phone on it and tried to call it.  It doesn't work whatsoever.  Take it off, it rings.  So it does block that FWIW.

Seriously, that's a whole lot better data than the fluff I've read from the E-zines, as much as I enjoy reading the E-zines (really for the pictures, just look at StereoMojo there are so many honeys!  :thumb:).

Thanks for the input JT,

Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dBe on 16 Jul 2013, 05:35 pm
I have heard that before, that TOO much ERS can dull the sound...

Best,
Anand.
OK, OK....  I've been getting a bunch of emails and PMs so let me address what I did and why in building Roger's amp.

First, the ERS cloth.  ERS is the weirdest material that I have ever worked with and defies explanation and goes beyond logic in some ways.  Why does a material that works solely in the RF region sometimes have an obvious effect and sometimes not?  That is a hard one - suffice to say that it just does.  Is it ever a profound effect?  Nope, at least not to my ears.  Remember that I am a hard core subjectivist when it comes to audio... a recovering hard core objectivist.  There are some things that I have just quit trying to wrap my inquisitive head around and recognize that they "may" or "may not" have a beneficial effect in a particular application.  It is an instance of what our Aussie friends call "suck it and see" or as we say, "give it a try."  ERS was used in my first BUSSes, but not in the recent ones.  Why?  Because I changed some materials in the newer ones that eliminated the need for ERS.

So, why does ERS work in this application?  Because it does, that's why.  I tried it with and without in several different configurations and ended up with about half of what is seen in the picture.  It is  located only over the SMPS.  Like I said, the soundstage was better with the ERS than without and better as I reduced the size to what it is now.  ERS is like gravity: it works and part of it can be measured and quantified, but in the final analysis, we still don't fully understand it.  ERS is NOT like gravity in the context of constant functionality.  Gravity is pretty much a given.

This brings us to the real topic of my missive here and in my business as well as my life.  I loathe and detest noise.  From the noise on the street or in a restaurant, to the RFI that plays hell with good audio reproduction, noise sucks.  In audio, noise sucks power from amplifiers, clarity in all kinds of circuits and life out of the music.  To prove a point many years ago I bought two of the same portable boom boxes.  In one of them I went on a noise hunt.  Took months.  From the power supplies to resistors, to cabinet damping I searched for everything that was a noise contributor.  In the end, there was no sonic comparison.  The boom box became a reasonable source for music.  I still use that sucker in my garage.  Sounds awful now due to age, dust and abuse, but it serves to remind me of why I do what I do.

On to Roger's amp.  When Roger asked me to build him an Ncore amp, I was really blessed by him asking.  He and I have become good friends over the past few years, even though we have never met face to face.  We have a great deal in common.  I decided that I would build him an amp in the way I would build it for me, not just do an assembly job.  That meant that I would employ every technique that I know to eliminate the SMPS noise form the amp (within reason).  I'm a wood butcher.  I don't have access to machine tools or the talents of Matt Kramer or Jason to do what they do, I had to go with what I know.  That is: noise reduction; layout; cryo and common sense.

Cryo - cryo is like a good chiropractor.  it removes tension and stress in the materials.  There are also changes to the materials on a molecular and crystalline lattice/boundary level that are well documented and don't need explanation here.  Cryo works.  Accept the fact... it just does.  I cryoed the guts of the amp.  Everything I put in my products is cryoed.  It's like chicken soup - couldn't hurt.  I'm a CryoGuy to the max.

Noise reduction:  I approached this from two directions - compartmentalization and shielding.  The mu metal and copper foil shield was used to provide as much ground plane shielding as possible.  I wired this as a Class 2 device with the earth (ground) unattached to the chassis.  All of the shielding is attached to earth.  Having everything grounded to a common point with a SMPS is a great way to make a tiny radio station out of the ground plane.  YMMV.  I'm just sayin'.  Try running down a problem in the D-ground in a recording console sometime..........

Having established the two compartments, I twisted the cabling and used copper foil to shield the wiring.  I twisted the wiring for the two SMPS in opposite directions because  it just makes sense to do so and takes no additional time.  Mutual induction is probably not an issue with this layout, but why not just do it?  I kept everything that had to do with power in the power compartment as much as possible.

On the amplifier side of things, I simply kept everything as short as possible and added a bit of additional shielding here and there.

NOTE: I really, really don't like the signal cable used in the Ncore kit.  In the future I would change that wiring out to something more substantial and user/builder/sonically friendly.

NOTE: the guy that thought that super bright blue LEDs would be a good idea should be... (insert your option here)  I eventually ended up installing a back lit switch on the front panel for Roger. 

On the power inlet side, I went with a Furutech gold plated power inlet because I like them and they "sound good" - yeah, I know... better than the power inlet used in the plans.

I'm not a scientist, just an audio guy.  I build the way I build because I have found it to be the best sounding way to do things over many years of experience.

Again, YMMV.

Dave
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 20 Jul 2013, 08:44 pm
Dave,

Thanks for going through the details of the build.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: rogerdn on 20 Jul 2013, 09:10 pm
Dave,

Thanks for going through the details of the build.

Best,
Anand.

+1
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mjock3 on 25 Jul 2013, 03:32 am
Thanks for sharing Dave, really appreciate people like you sharing your knowledge.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dBe on 25 Jul 2013, 04:22 pm
Thanks for sharing Dave, really appreciate people like you sharing your knowledge.
My pleasure.  Hope this helps.

Dave
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: waver on 30 Jul 2013, 06:48 pm
just finished 2 nc400 monoblocks and enjoy listening to my favourite tracks ... :singing:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84500)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84501)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jtwrace on 26 Nov 2013, 09:52 pm
Nice job!   :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mikeeastman on 29 Jan 2014, 07:37 pm
Just got my amp back from Ric Schultz and added more dampening and cover the binding post with nylon washer and shrink tube so wire doesn't touch any metal.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93823)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93824)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93825)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93826)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93827)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93828)
 
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jonbee on 29 Jan 2014, 08:20 pm
Just got my amp back from Ric Schultz
How does it sound, compared to stock?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 29 Jan 2014, 08:24 pm
Just got my amp back from Ric Schultz and added more dampening and cover the binding post with nylon washer and shrink tube so wire doesn't touch any metal.

What wire are you using for the ncore-to-speaker-posts wiring? Looks rather thin...
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: cab on 29 Jan 2014, 10:27 pm
What wire are you using for the ncore-to-speaker-posts wiring? Looks rather thin...

And poorly twisted...
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mikeeastman on 29 Jan 2014, 10:29 pm
It's just now burning in, about 5 hrs, but two things I noticed so far, my only complaint with the amp before was that the mid bass was a little thin, now its there in spades, also my soundstage got wider and now wraps around the speakers 3-4 ft.

 The wire is 3 pieces of 22 gauge silver in Teflon, twisted together. As the amp is only powering my mids and highs and my speakers are  pretty efficient I think it will be fine.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 30 Jan 2014, 08:03 am
The wire is 3 pieces of 22 gauge silver in Teflon, twisted together. As the amp is only powering my mids and highs and my speakers are  pretty efficient I think it will be fine.

Ah, yes, if it is only mids and highs it should be more than OK. Thanks for the clarification!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: boffellid on 30 Jan 2014, 05:15 pm
Just got my amp back from Ric Schultz and added more dampening and cover the binding post with nylon washer and shrink tube so wire doesn't touch any metal.

Nice assembly, I have been very happy with Ric's work. I like the case: where did you get it?

Dario
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: mikeeastman on 30 Jan 2014, 05:37 pm
Here is close up of the modified Wima caps,
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93866)

And of course no upgrade is complete without some magic crystals.  :green:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93867)

Julf ; it's actually 4 strands twisted together "My old eyes aren't what they use to be"  :scratch:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: occamsrazor on 29 Dec 2014, 01:55 pm
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2hqdmh2.jpg)

Hypex Ncore monoblocks in Ghent case...

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Selarom on 5 Jan 2015, 12:48 am
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2hqdmh2.jpg)

Hypex Ncore monoblocks in Ghent case...

Very Nice and clean!  Can you post more pictures?  :D
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: occamsrazor on 5 Jan 2015, 05:08 am
Very Nice and clean!  Can you post more pictures?  :D

Here you go...

Only thing missing is the LED wire which I did after these were taken.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2hqdmh2.jpg)

(http://i62.tinypic.com/x2whtl.jpg)

(http://i59.tinypic.com/2w71urm.jpg)

(http://i57.tinypic.com/w1ef74.jpg)

(http://i59.tinypic.com/2d8c1v.jpg)

In restrospect the audio input cable could have been cut a bit shorter, but I wanted to leave a bit extra in case I messed it up first time. That thick speaker wire (3.0mm2 silver-plated copper) was really a pain to twist up and the brass terminals aren't very user friendly when you have thick wire. Also be careful there are two capacitors just above them you have to be a bit careful not to bend.
I tried as a priority to follow Hypex guidelines in having everything tightly twisted and avoiding loops.
In the future I may try to add insulating covers to the spade power connectors for safety.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Shaman on 27 Jan 2015, 09:55 am
My dual-mono (temp) build.

These were bought from the first or second Hypex batch ever, but had been living in a "temporary enclosure" ever since (namely screwed on a top panel scavenged off an old DVD player) .
Finally decided to move them to their proper enclosures, which were custom-sized and bought via a group buy I organized over at diyaudio ~3 years ago.

Internal layout is temporary, as there'll be one more NC400 module going in there as well (i.e. two NC400s per enclosure, sharing an SMPS600).

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113810)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113809)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113812)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113811)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 27 Jan 2015, 02:24 pm
Saw this over on DIYaudio a few weeks back, very nice, thanks for sharing  :thumb:

And those ATC's I'm sure are fun to listen to :green:

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Shaman on 28 Jan 2015, 08:00 pm
Thanks!

Yes, the ATCs are great. A no-nonsense company with Pro-audio pedigree.
And you can't really go wrong with their iconic mid range driver, which offers state of the art performance (https://app.box.com/s/j1pwj8exbmioz350nu0n) (the SCM40 is equipped with the non-S version). :wink:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: ZAKski288 on 19 Mar 2015, 02:11 am
Started my Ncore build. in custom cases (9"X 15").  Progress of the first case

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117000)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117002)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117003)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117007)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117008)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117005)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117006)

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: tane0019 on 23 Mar 2015, 09:13 am
(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l511/tane0019/IMG_0361_zps3814648e.jpg)

(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l511/tane0019/IMG_0365_zpsa7058f74.jpg)
(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l511/tane0019/IMG_0366_zpscea3f9c8.jpg)

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 24 Mar 2015, 02:07 pm
Any marks you can see are finger print residue I missed.

(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/IMG_9018.jpg)
(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/IMG_9020.jpg)
(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/IMG_9024.jpg)
(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/IMG_9030.jpg)
(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/IMG_9032.jpg)
(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/IMG_9034.jpg)
(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG-20150323-WA0007.jpeg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: jlfo on 30 Mar 2015, 07:46 pm
Fantastic Dan1502 !!!
Where did you ordered these cases ? Is it available on-line ?
Regards,
Jose
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: SlushPuppy on 30 Mar 2015, 10:00 pm
Any marks you can see are finger print residue I missed.

I like that case  :thumb:
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dBe on 30 Mar 2015, 10:20 pm
I find elegance in simple lines.  This is truly elegant!  The finish is perfect for the piece, too  :thumb:

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 31 Mar 2015, 12:59 am
Dan1502,

Wow! Fantastic!

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 31 Mar 2015, 07:18 pm
(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG-20150323-WA0007.jpeg)

Uh... Is that a IEC inlet with a T/pi filter? And any reason you didn't twist the output connections all the way to the connectors?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 1 Apr 2015, 11:49 am
Fantastic Dan1502 !!!
Where did you ordered these cases ? Is it available on-line ?
Regards,
Jose

Thanks for all the compliments.  I worked with an engineer on the design.  More can be made and there are at lease two pairs going to be made soon but he's ideally wanting to be in a position to make at least five pairs.  They're not cheap though.  £1,300 per pair.

Regarding twisting the output connectors, do you mean the mains or speaker outputs.  The mains cable is shielded.  The speaker cables are twisted very tightly as much as they can be although I suppose I could have soldered them perpendicularly across the spades (which would be easy enough to change).  The filter is a 3A Schaffner.  There are mixed views on using these but a few of us have reported positive results.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 1 Apr 2015, 11:52 am
There's also an LED mounted but it's not connected in these pictures.  I've been at a Hifi show with them all last weekend and haven't yet had time to photograph them properly in their finished state.  They have a blue LED shining through a 3mm light pipe with a resistor to dim them so they're not too bright - much softer than my Benckmark DAC2 HGC's LEDs.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 1 Apr 2015, 11:56 am
Not the best of pictures but it should give you an idea.  I now have them on pieces of granite and shall be tidying the wiring up when I get a chance.

(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0455.jpg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 1 Apr 2015, 12:15 pm
The speaker cables are twisted very tightly as much as they can be although I suppose I could have soldered them perpendicularly across the spades (which would be easy enough to change).

Right - they do form quite a large unbalanced loop.

Quote
The filter is a 3A Schaffner.  There are mixed views on using these but a few of us have reported positive results.

Bruno's view is clear - he strongly recommends against them. They provide a connecting path for HF noise between mains and earth.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 1 Apr 2015, 01:33 pm
Not quite so clear.  He gave an opinion on a thread about UCD years ago then another on the NCore thread which is more along the lines of the SMPS already incorporating such filtering.  An ordinary IEC will fit though.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 1 Apr 2015, 01:58 pm
Not quite so clear.  He gave an opinion on a thread about UCD years ago then another on the NCore thread which is more along the lines of the SMPS already incorporating such filtering.  An ordinary IEC will fit though.

The point is not that the SMPS already provides filtering but that the shunt capacitors in a T or pi filter actually connect noise from the mains to ground.

I guess ground/earth, especially in the context of fully floating differential circuits, is one of the most misunderstood subjects in DIY audio.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 1 Apr 2015, 02:48 pm
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore-286.html#post2937571

The above is the post I refer to.  My setup in balanced.  I would not use them in an unbalanced setup.

I'm not in a position to argue with you though as you are far more knowledgeable than I and having read plenty of your posts on various forums over the years I certainly value your opinions.  On a similar subject I have been meaning to find out more about whether or not to connect the XLR chassis to earth and, if so whether or not to connect the housing tab on the XLR plugs to ground.  As it stands I have connected neither to ground.

I will probably take you comment about the cables on board.  The cables are twisted tighter than I have seen any others twisted.  The cable I used turned out to be unexpectedly good in that regard for quite thick cable.  However I did not think of soldering them in a different orientation at the time.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 1 Apr 2015, 03:04 pm
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore-286.html#post2937571

The above is the post I refer to.  My setup in balanced.  I would not use them in an unbalanced setup.

Right. In that posting, Bruno states the same thing as I have - the filters capacitively couple the mains to chassis. I agree that it shouldn't be an issue in a balanced system, but as Bruno stated, you should try to minimize their use, and they are not needed with the Hypex SMPS. I also agree that as your setup is balanced, it doesn't make much of a difference in your setup.

Quote
On a similar subject I have been meaning to find out more about whether or not to connect the XLR chassis to earth and, if so whether or not to connect the housing tab on the XLR plugs to ground.  As it stands I have connected neither to ground.

I would connect the XLR chassis to ground (either directly or through the housing tab), as the XLR housing/chassis should (electrically) be part of the enclosure to minimize HF ingress/egress.

Quote
I will probably take you comment about the cables on board.  The cables are twisted tighter than I have seen any others twisted.  The cable I used turned out to be unexpectedly good in that regard for quite thick cable.  However I did not think of soldering them in a different orientation at the time.

Yes, the twisting in your pic is nicely tight - but it is equally important that it is as symmetric as possible (having one lead straight and the other twisted around it is no good), and the main priority is minimizing the area of any possible untwisted loops.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 1 Apr 2015, 03:16 pm
Thanks.  The wires are twisted symmetrically.  I was careful about that.  I will change the orientation.  I just hope I manage to de-solder and re-solder neatly.

Connecting the chassis to ground using the tabs is easy enough though if I had known before I would have not needed another ring terminal to do so.  Connecting directly is harder due to how tough the anodising is so I'd rather avoid that.

What about the case tabs on the XLR interconnects?  Should I connect these to ground?  I've heard this can increase the risk of ground loop issues and is best avoided but that could be the wrong opinion.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 1 Apr 2015, 03:23 pm
Thanks.  The wires are twisted symmetrically.  I was careful about that.  I will change the orientation.  I just hope I manage to de-solder and re-solder neatly.

Should be reasonably straightforward - at least you have lots of space around the terminals. Desoldering the feedback resistors was trickier :)

Quote
What about the case tabs on the XLR interconnects?  Should I connect these to ground?  I've heard this can increase the risk of ground loop issues and is best avoided but that could be the wrong opinion.

Should not be any ground loop issues as long as the wires are kept short. The cases of the XLR connectors should be connected to the main chassis somehow, and I agree dealing with the anodising is tricky.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 1 Apr 2015, 03:33 pm
I'm pretty sure the Neutrik XLR plug cases connect to the Neutrik XLR sockets by design.  So if I connect the socket earth tab to the cases they would be grounded at that end.  The question then is whether or not I should connect the interconnect cable shielding to the plug earth tab or not if you know what I mean.  Currently I just have the signal pins connected (of course) and the ground pin to cable shield but have not connected the ground tabs.  This would be a bit of a pain to do retrospectively as I've twisted and soldered the shielding to the ground pin but I could just solder a tiny bit of wire from the ground pin to the earth tab but I'm not sure whether it's worth the bother if the shells are earthed via their connection to the socket which itself would be earthed if I proceed as advised.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 1 Apr 2015, 03:49 pm
If the socket earth tab is connected to the case, then that is more than enough - no need to worry about the plugs.

Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 1 Apr 2015, 04:21 pm
I thought so but thanks for confirming.  That would have been a fiddly job.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 2 Apr 2015, 07:13 am
Looking at this before going ahead, presumable I just solder a very short wire between the xlr socket shell tab and Pin 1 which is next to it?  Pin 1 is then wired to the chassis earth point visible in my picture.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 2 Apr 2015, 07:21 am
Looking at this before going ahead, presumable I just solder a very short wire between the xlr socket shell tab and Pin 1 which is next to it?  Pin 1 is then wired to the chassis earth poing visible in my picture.

Yes, that would do it.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 2 Apr 2015, 07:43 am
Thanks.  I do try and read up on this but most of what I read in terms of technical papers and discussions goes way over my head leaving me without a straight answer as to what's best for my situation.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 2 Apr 2015, 07:50 am
Thanks.  I do try and read up on this but most of what I read in terms of technical papers and discussions goes way over my head leaving me without a straight answer as to what's best for my situation.

And unfortunately a lot of the electrotrickery is counterintuitive. Took me a long time to learn to trust the science and maths instead of what seemed to make intuitive sense. A solid theoretical background combined with practical experience helps, but still - every day is (hopefuly) a learning day.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 2 Apr 2015, 11:29 am
One of the problems for me is I intend to read up on a topic to a point I have a reasonable understanding for a particular project then don't have need to apply the knowledge again for a long time by which time I've forgotten it.  I read all the DIYAudio thread about three years ago when I bought the units and built them into mock-ups but am now a little rusty.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 3 Apr 2015, 11:25 am
Improved output connection orientation to reduce or eliminate loops and connected xlr shell to chassis ground as per Julf's recommendations.  Thanks for the constructive criticism.

(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0500.jpg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 3 Apr 2015, 11:59 am
very neat!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 3 Apr 2015, 02:34 pm
Now I'm getting a static like popping but strangeley it only seems to be when using the USB input to my Benchmark DAC2 HGC not the coax or optical inputs (but I haven't listened to them for long enough to be certain).  I'm now thinking I should remove the XLR shell to ground pin links I just connected.  Any thoughts as I really want them to be finished and just enjoyed from today?

In case it helps, the USB is connected to a silent HTPC with Paul Pang card and two separate linear power supplies.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 3 Apr 2015, 02:38 pm
Now I'm getting a static like popping but strangeley it only seems to be when using the USB input to my Benchmark DAC2 HGC not the coax or optical inputs (but I haven't listened to them for long enough to be certain).  I'm now thinking I should remove the XLR shell to ground pin links I just connected.  Any thoughts as I really want them to be finished and just enjoyed from today?

In case it helps, the USB is connected to a silent HTPC with Paul Pang card and two separate linear power supplies.

Whenever I have problems like that, I remove any sort of esoterica from my system. Can you try with just a regular laptop feeding the DAC?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 3 Apr 2015, 02:43 pm
Yes, I can do.  It's just strange how that hasn't happened until today when I connected the shell earth tab to ground pin.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 3 Apr 2015, 02:56 pm
Yes, I can do.  It's just strange how that hasn't happened until today when I connected the shell earth tab to ground pin.

So just to check, you have the inputs of the nc400's connected to pins 2 and 3 on the XLR's, pin 1 and XLR connector chassis tab soldered together and connected to chassis/ground via short lead? And the only difference to the earlier situation (with no popping noises) was that the connector chassis tab wasn't connected anywhere?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 3 Apr 2015, 03:21 pm
Yes.  But rather oddly I have just tried the HTPC connected via the onboard card (not the Paul Pang with separate Swenson supply) and no popping.   However we have been using the HTPC to watch DVDs via the Paul Pang USB out for a week or so with no popping.  It just seems unlikely to be a coincidence that this has only happended since connecting the shell ground tab to pin 1.  You can see in the abov picture where the ring tabs connect to chassis ground (under the heatshrink of the signal cable).
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 3 Apr 2015, 03:54 pm
Yes.  But rather oddly I have just tried the HTPC connected via the onboard card (not the Paul Pang with separate Swenson supply) and no popping.   However we have been using the HTPC to watch DVDs via the Paul Pang USB out for a week or so with no popping.  It just seems unlikely to be a coincidence that this has only happended since connecting the shell ground tab to pin 1.  You can see in the abov picture where the ring tabs connect to chassis ground (under the heatshrink of the signal cable).

I agree it is an unlikely coincidence. Unfortunately the only way to verify would be by disconnecting the shell ground tab again. Do you have a cheap extra XLR cable where it would be easy to disconnect the plug chassis connection?
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 3 Apr 2015, 04:02 pm
It's an unlikely coincidence but still odd that it doesn't happen with the other USB output or other sources.  Plus the Paul Pang card only has two power inputs i.e. +5v and ground with no earth.  I'm just going to take the cover off the HTPC and have a look as there have been reports of issues with Paul Pang cards.  All my XLR connections are cheap but I do have some used spares and cable.  My current cables just have the 3 pins connected though without the tab from plug shell to ground (shielding) connected.  Do you mean try with just signal pins connected?  If so I could but it's a bit of a faff.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 3 Apr 2015, 04:11 pm
Do you mean try with just signal pins connected?  If so I could but it's a bit of a faff.

Yes -  a bit of a hassle.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 3 Apr 2015, 04:36 pm
I don't want to speak to soon but I think the Paul Pang card may have come out of the PCI socket a bit.  I've just tried it after pushing it back in fully and it seems to be fine though I also changed the USB cable for a longer one as I had to use a longer one in order to try it with the top off slid out of the rack.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 3 Apr 2015, 04:41 pm
I don't want to speak to soon but I think the Paul Pang card may have come out of the PCI socket a bit.  I've just tried it after pushing it back in fully and it seems to be fine though I also changed the USB cable for a longer one as I had to use a longer one in order to try it with the top off slid out of the rack.

The length of the USB cable is unlikely to have any effect, but a loose PCI connection definitely would!
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 3 Apr 2015, 05:15 pm
Yes, it seems that was it.  Sorry I wasn't meaning the length so much as the cable.  I never believed cables could make a difference (and I don't mean cheap vs expensive) until I connected a Joggler up to a DAC with a brand new cable and it wouldn't work properly.  Changing the cable sorted it.  In fact I think it is the cable that didn't work with that system that I am now using in this one.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 3 Apr 2015, 05:50 pm
Yes, it seems that was it.  Sorry I wasn't meaning the length so much as the cable.  I never believed cables could make a difference (and I don't mean cheap vs expensive) until I connected a Joggler up to a DAC with a brand new cable and it wouldn't work properly.  Changing the cable sorted it.  In fact I think it is the cable that didn't work with that system that I am now using in this one.

USB cables do make a difference when they don't work :)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 3 Apr 2015, 06:04 pm
Yes but this one works but just not in that system.  Most odd.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: Julf on 3 Apr 2015, 06:11 pm
Yes but this one works but just not in that system.  Most odd.

Depends on the interface chips on both ends - but still, in any specific system, it either works or it doesn't - no subtle degradations.
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: dan1502 on 3 Apr 2015, 07:30 pm
Some fully built pictures.  To say I'm happy is an understatement.

(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/IMG_9075.jpg)
(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/IMG_9076.jpg)
(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt210/1502dan/IMG_9078.jpg)
Title: Re: Show Us Your Core-NCore!
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 3 Apr 2015, 11:17 pm
Bravo! :notworthy: :mrgreen:  :thumb:

Best,
Anand.