[DaveNote]

Dave,

It's grat that you've found a speaker to surplant the PMC's at such a modest price but your comments on how you are sunsetting the PMC's is surprising. 

Why not just sell them for a fair market value and cut your losses.  Many, as I, could only dream of having them.
Cheers

SoundGame, no one is more surprised about my sunsetting the MB2is than I. The analogy is not retiring a Triple Crown winner to stud, but to be a milk horse. Pathetic! I would, in fact, sell them in a second, but I'm one of those old codgers who won't use ebay or other online alternatives. Another disability that comes with being an old codger. The only alternative, other than giving them to someone who would give them a good home, is to do a trade, and lose another bundle, or sell to a known or trusted person privately, which right now looks unlikely.

Dave

[Chicago]

Dave,
I thought there were a lot of PMC fans on this site and that would seem to enhance your chances of selling the speakers. 

Your thread came two or three months late for me.  I would have definitely given the Axiom's a chance before I pulled the trigger on the B&W 803 Diamonds.  I might have saved myself a nice chunk of change.

Mike

[DaveNote]

Dave,
I thought there were a lot of PMC fans on this site and that would seem to enhance your chances of selling the speakers. 

Your thread came two or three months late for me.  I would have definitely given the Axiom's a chance before I pulled the trigger on the B&W 803 Diamonds.  I might have saved myself a nice chunk of change.

Mike

I own very little brothers of your beautiful 803s - the small and realtively inexpensive 685 stand mounts. Like the PMCs they have a smoother more relaxed sound than the M80s. And the tweeters are bright, but very sweet sounding. Very nice. My guess is that the M80s might be more accurate and neutral than 803s. But as a consequence they have a harder edge especially in the high frequency range. Some people find them much too bright. Therefore, it is possible that you would find your 803s more to your taste. I have not heard many people regret buying B&W. Indeed, I don't regret buying my PMCs, which I thought was the right choice when I made the purchase. I would have gone a lot more crazy than I have become if I regretted every audio purchase that subsequently has ended up gathering dust, or which ended up in returning very little in a trade. Recently, for example, I made trade a long unused Theta DAC for very few dollars on a piece that itself is now unused.

Enjoy your B&Ws, and if and when you move to another speaker, remember the joy they gave you.

Maybe the best way to think about this hobby is that in a way its like golf where you may over time spend a fortune on club and/or green fees, and end up with nothing more tangible than memories, hopefully good ones.

Dave

[adol290]

Davenote,

I sent you a PM.

[vegasdave]

Just a quick update on my M80/MB2i journey.

After discovering, with great sadness and reluctance, that to my ears - emphasis my ears - in my room playing my music, that the Axiom M80s sounded far more accurate and uncoloured, I disconnected the MB2is. Then I couldn't stand having them in my sound room as a reminder of an expensive purchase having been superseded, something that has happened before, but not to this degree.

So I paid a mover (don't have the skill or strength to do the job) to move them upstairs so I at least could get some remaining value out of them...as external speakers for out TV.

My wife wants to put flower pots on them. A very sad ending for a great speaker.

But now that the M80s are now positioned some 6 feet apart and slightly toed in, they sound even better.

Next, attaching the Axiom DSP designed for the M80s in the next few weeks.

Dave

Well, it's final then...the PMCs have been beaten. So, now the Axioms take their place in the main system with Bryston, true?

[vegasdave]

SoundGame, no one is more surprised about my sunsetting the MB2is than I. The analogy is not retiring a Triple Crown winner to stud, but to be a milk horse. Pathetic! I would, in fact, sell them in a second, but I'm one of those old codgers who won't use ebay or other online alternatives. Another disability that comes with being an old codger. The only alternative, other than giving them to someone who would give them a good home, is to do a trade, and lose another bundle, or sell to a known or trusted person privately, which right now looks unlikely.

Dave

So you're definitely letting go of the PMCs, or?

[DaveNote]

So you're definitely letting go of the PMCs, or?

Vegasdave, I have, in fact, taken my PMC MB2is out of my main system. I am using them now as external speakers for my TV (not home theatre). And if I can sell them under the right conditions, I will.

They are wonderful speakers, but no longer are what I have come to prefer. Happens all the time to audiophiles. I still have unused gear that used to meet my preferences, but no longer do: Examples: Z-Systems digital equalizer, Theta Jade CD transport, Sony ES CD player, high end AM/FM tuner.

So the Axioms are my main system speakers now, and with the MB2is out of my sound room, I have been able to position them better, which has improved the soundstage, of course, but also has given them an overall better sound.

Nevertheless the subject title of this thread says it all: "I cannot believe that this happened."

Dave

[vegasdave]

Ok, that's cool. If I liked PMC, I would gladly take them off of your hands!

I'm not too surprised really. PMC is highly overrated and overpriced, IMO. I always thought this.

I'm kind of glad that Bryston is no longer affiliated with them with the exception of having them as a UK distributor.

I wouldn't get too cozy with those Axioms, though. Because James' speakers are gonna blow those out of the water! Just a little prediction here. hehe. 

[DaveNote]

Ok, that's cool. If I liked PMC, I would gladly take them off of your hands!

I'm not too surprised really. PMC is highly overrated and overpriced, IMO.

I'm kind of glad that Bryston is no longer affiliated with them with the exception of having them as a UK distributor.

I certainly rated my PMCs highly, and still do rate them highly. But as you say on another thread each to his own - megabuck or entry level. No question about PMCs being pricey. But "overpriced" I suppose is in the eye of the beholder. My Bryston gear in the eyes of people who like some else that is less expensive probably looks overpriced. It isn't cheap, but I see it as a relative bargain. PMC lovers probably see BB5s as a bargain compared to top end Wilsons.

I share your belief that James' speakers might be outstanding. All the more reason to sell my PMCs.

Dave

[vegasdave]

Ok, fair enough. Exactly. Bryston is a bargain compared to many other high end brands. We're not talking about $80000 amps from the boys in Peterborough.

Wilson is absolutely overpriced, IMO. They always have been, really, but more so here in 2012.

Cool. Yeah, if you dig those Axioms, James' speakers would be a good choice for an upgrade, imo.

[James Tanner]

Ok, that's cool. If I liked PMC, I would gladly take them off of your hands!

I'm not too surprised really. PMC is highly overrated and overpriced, IMO. I always thought this.

I'm kind of glad that Bryston is no longer affiliated with them with the exception of having them as a UK distributor.

I wouldn't get too cozy with those Axioms, though. Because James' speakers are gonna blow those out of the water! Just a little prediction here. hehe. 

I would not go as far as that - (Blow away) - any quality piece of gear (speaker) is not going to 'blow away' another quality piece of gear.  We are dealing with very sophisticated gear here and believe me the PMC's I know and love are a tough competitor. I really think at this level you are choosing performance that fits in with the rest of your gear and the room and type of music you listen to.

I have listened to the same speaker in hundreds of different rooms over the years that I have been doing shows in hotels and believe me sometimes you do the setup and its magic and sometimes its crap

james

[vegasdave]

I would not go as far as that - (Blow away) - any quality piece of gear (speaker) is not going to 'blow away' another quality piece of gear.  We are dealing with very sophisticated gear here and believe me the PMC's I know and love are a tough competitor. I really think at this level you are choosing performance that fits in with the rest of your gear and the room and type of music you listen to.

I have listened to the same speaker in hundreds of different rooms over the years that I have been doing shows in hotels and believe me sometimes you do the setup and its magic and sometimes its crap

james

Ok James, granted. I may have been too hard on PMC, but that's just my opinion. However, it looks like you have something special with your speakers, true?

I can believe that.

[DaveNote]

I would not go as far as that - (Blow away) - any quality piece of gear (speaker) is not going to 'blow away' another quality piece of gear.  We are dealing with very sophisticated gear here and believe me the PMC's I know and love are a tough competitor. I really think at this level you are choosing performance that fits in with the rest of your gear and the room and type of music you listen to.

I have listened to the same speaker in hundreds of different rooms over the years that I have been doing shows in hotels and believe me sometimes you do the setup and its magic and sometimes its crap

james

James, because of your experience with speakers and speaker setups, I have a great deal of confidence in your opinion. Just to make the record abundantly clear, I agree with you about PMC speakers. Those who think I have dumped on them because I prefer the M80s have missed all my critical qualifications:

1. It is a comparative thing, not an absolute judgement for M80s and against MB2is in all rooms with all gear. For example, I accept that if I owned 28BSST2s, I might have come to a different conclusion.

2. The comparisons I made were in a particular room playing certain music. I accept that I might have come to a different conclusion if the comparison had been made in different rooms with different music.

3. The measures against which I made the comparison were my own tastes and preferences. I accept that others easily would have come to different conclusions based on their tastes and preferences.

My only point in starting this thread was to share an experience, which has been changing since I received the M80s and may change again when I receive the DSP designed for these speakers. It was never intended to slight PMC speakers, nor do I believe I have done that.

Dave

[vegasdave]

James, because of your experience with speakers and speaker setups, I have a great deal of confidence in your opinion. Just to make the record abundantly clear, I agree with you about PMC speakers. Those who think I have dumped on them because I prefer the M80s have missed all my critical qualifications:

1. It is a comparative thing, not an absolute judgement for M80s and against MB2is in all rooms with all gear. For example, I accept that if I owned 28BSST2s, I might have come to a different conclusion.

2. The comparisons I made were in a particular room playing certain music. I accept that I might have come to a different conclusion if the comparison had been made in different rooms with different music.

3. The measures against which I made the comparison were my own tastes and preferences. I accept that others easily would have come to different conclusions based on their tastes and preferences.

My only point in starting this thread was to share an experience, which has been changing since I received the M80s and may change again when I receive the DSP designed for these speakers. It was never intended to slight PMC speakers, nor do I believe I have done that.

Dave

Agreed.

[sfraser]

Agreed.

Agreed 2.

I would imagine the PMC's would have the ability to load up a room in a hurry. Perhaps in a larger venue the PMC's would be more appealing than the M80's, given your listening criteria. Now I say that, having no idea how big your current audio room is 

[Diamond Dog]

I would imagine the PMC's would have the ability to load up a room in a hurry. Perhaps in a larger venue the PMC's would be more appealing than the M80's, given your listening criteria. Now I say that, having no idea how big your current audio room is

... main audio system in a good 12X23 foot sound room (the most critical component in any audio system I've been told and have learned)

...and indeed therein lies the rub. I'm using lil' ol' fact.8's in a room bigger than that with 7BSST2's and could easily liquify all my internal organs without my amps even getting warm to the touch. I find the idea of having MB2i's in a room that size baffling, frankly. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...

 

D.D.

[werd]

...and indeed therein lies the rub. I'm using lil' ol' fact.8's in a room bigger than that with 7BSST2's and could easily liquify all my internal organs without my amps even getting warm to the touch. I find the idea of having MB2i's in a room that size baffling, frankly. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...

 

D.D.

Haha

Well you know how civil those salesman are. Probably only went in looking at ob1s until the very civil salesman through out a couple Jesus quotes and wham bam thank you maam he bought the MB2s.

[vegasdave]

...and indeed therein lies the rub. I'm using lil' ol' fact.8's in a room bigger than that with 7BSST2's and could easily liquify all my internal organs without my amps even getting warm to the touch. I find the idea of having MB2i's in a room that size baffling, frankly. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...

 

D.D.

So you're saying the room's too small, true?

[Sasha]

That is low indeed...

[Diamond Dog]

So you're saying the room's too small, true?

No, I'm saying the speakers are too big. Or at least to my ( addled ) way of thinking.
Look, Vegas - I'm running the same amps in a bigger, carpeted, furnished and treated room with fact.8's and I have absolutely no trouble whatsoever achieving punishing volume levels with tons of headroom to spare. You've gotta think that to get satisfying bass out of those size-XL MB's would be pretty tough when the cones are barely vibrating. And by the time you get to where those MB's like to play and sound the way they can and should, in a room that size the SPL's would be, at best, uncomfortable. That's fine if you like getting pummeled but...
So you bring in a pair of whatever halfway decent speakers that are actually in their comfort zone in that particular environment and presto - they sound good in comparison to a pair which are barely even running. And you can't believe it? Really? Your MB2i's are "milk horses" now? Really? 
Page after page in two threads of "OMG! OMG! OMG! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT !"

Makes two of us.

And what the Sam-Hell is a " milk horse "?

D.D.