[rob80b]

I’ve been thinking about moving up from 3BST THX of late to a 3B SST
My 3B ST (date Code 9932) actually came from Bryston in March of 2003 as a replacement (thanks to Chris Russel) on a problematic 3B NRB bought new in 1994.
Now the question is, besides some design changes the SST has
“Faster, more linear and more reliable output transistors for better high frequency accuracy” is there any way I can check to see if there any updates applied to the 3BST I currently have as Bryston still had it in their fold after the SST was released.
Probably really no great urgency to upgrade as my system sounds just fine, .but I’m just following the what if ….. nature of this hobby.

[James Tanner]

I’ve been thinking about moving up from 3BST THX of late to a 3B SST
My 3B ST (date Code 9932) actually came from Bryston in March of 2003 as a replacement (thanks to Chris Russel) on a problematic 3B NRB bought new in 1994.
Now the question is, besides some design changes the SST has
“Faster, more linear and more reliable output transistors for better high frequency accuracy” is there any way I can check to see if there any updates applied to the 3BST I currently have as Bryston still had it in their fold after the SST was released.
Probably really no great urgency to upgrade as my system sounds just fine, .but I’m just following the what if ….. nature of this hobby.

Hi Rob,

No there have not been any changes in the 3B ST prior to or after the release of the 3B SST.

james

[rob80b]

Hi James

Getting directly to the chase I took a peek inside my current ST, a number of the boards are Rev’s from 1999, the available schematics on line are dated 1997, the schematics for the 3BSST are 2002 so it is difficult to tell if any of the new “advances included in this new SST Series are: Faster, more linear and more reliable output transistors for better high frequency accuracy” were implemented in the late series 3BST’s.
The lay out of the two amps are obviously different and logically implemented to further diminish the already excellent noise level, although the basic implementation appears to be the same.
What I wish to lay at rest is will I be able to discern an appreciated difference between the my late version ST and the current SST. So far the majority of reviews point to a more refined open presentation in the higher frequencies which peeked my interest in upgrading, some discussions lean toward a much more conservative view in terms of the differences, while other digress in no differences at all http://www.htguide.com/forum/archive/index.php4/t-15900.html.
The obvious thing would be to audition a 3BSST in my setup, but time restraints and availability make it almost impossible.

Associated equipment BP25P/MPS1, 3BST, Dynaudio 1.3MKII’s(rated at 4ohms) and a Velodyne SPL1500R, sources TEAC VRDS-20, Rega P3/2000 and an OPPO DVD 980H.   Listening room is 12w x 15l x 10h.

Robert

[b5pt9]

Rob,

I am not a 'golden ears' audiophile type guy, and I can tell you honestly that when I switched from a 4BST to a 4BSST I noticed better clarity in the very high frequency range (cymbals sounded cleaner), and the bass was a little more present and tighter.

Not dramatically different but definitely an improvement.  This was with PMC FB1's.

Rich

[James Tanner]

Hi All,

The major difference in the SST versions of our amplifiers was the introduction of a new output device by Motorola. Output transistors have an issue in that as frequency rises so does distortion.  So if you look at the distortion at 1K then at 20K the distortion will be on the average 10 times higher. Circuitry is designed to reduce this tendency but it is still an issue.

When we tested this new Motorola device in the 14B ST, which was coincidentally being developed at the same time the results were amazing. The distortion with frequency was almost a straight line. I felt the new devices sound exceptional so we built the then new 14B ST and said nothing. The response in the market was - "this thing sounds incredible - what did you do"?  So very quickly we decided to change all the ST amps over to SST designs.

The other advantage of these new devices was that they were much more rugged and therefor we could up the power supply substantially as well giving the SST amps a 20% power increase over the ST versions.

james

[rob80b]

Thanks James

Given my current set-up I quite often get the BP25 at about 11-12 o’clock with CD playback, higher with vinyl even in my 12 x 15 x 10 listening room.
With the Dynaudio Contour 1.3MKII’s having an efficiency of 86dB’s at 4ohms would I be better off at looking at the 4B SST.

Robert

[mv038856]

Robert,

from my experience, I can tell you that a major improvement within the ST line did took place with the introduction of the 9B ST(!). Having the 'old' output devices, it still improved a lot in my opinion, maybe due to the completely new layout and signal path and grounding sceme compared to the other STs. I owned a 4B ST at that time and comparing this to the 9B ST (THX) the then surprising result was that the lower wattage 9B ST clearly outperformed the 4B ST in my setup, driving Sonus Faber's Minima FM2, a very small two-way speaker - just as your Dynaudio with a rather low efficiency.

My 3B SST (and of course the 6B SST and the 14B (S)ST) again outperformed my 9B ST, now driving my Dynaudio Countour S 1.4.

To make a long story short. I would recommend an upgrade to the SST line any time!

Hope this helps!

Cheers from Stuttgart, Germany!


Markus

[James Tanner]

Thanks James

Given my current set-up I quite often get the BP25 at about 11-12 o’clock with CD playback, higher with vinyl even in my 12 x 15 x 10 listening room.
With the Dynaudio Contour 1.3MKII’s having an efficiency of 86dB’s at 4ohms would I be better off at looking at the 4B SST.

Robert

Hi Robert,

Yes if the budget permits I would recommend the 4B SST.

james

[Barry.B]

Hi All,

I understand the benefits of upgrading to SST's, but funds are limited at the moment.  I might be able to run to a late used 4BST, so what would be the benefits of swapping one of my Lexicon NT212's (3BST)for a 4BST and horizontally bi-amping the two amps.  They would be arranged with the 212 driving the tweeters and the 4B driving the bass/mid range on my LB1's.  I realise this is passively bi-amping and there are differing views on the benefits of this, but it works for me.

Or would I be just wasting my time and would be better off sticking with what I have already amp wise.

It has been suggested by my dealer that a sub woofer would make a big difference, would it be better to go for the sub instead of the 4B.

Any thoughts gratefully accepted.

Regards,

Barry.B

[rob80b]

Just a few more questions before I make a decision between a 3BSST or a 4BSST.
Obviously the 4B would be more power but would it benefit my system as I do have everything crossed over with my Velodyne to augment the bottom end.
James did recommend the 4B as my volume on the BP25 does get to 11-12 o’clock although I’ve never gotten near to clipping my current 3B ST.
Would I experience more ease on the production, sort of like two people of different strengths lifting the same weight?
My biggest concern would be that my current location for listening has only one wall outlet with no options to add another, therefore everything lights TV (when used) the amp, preamp, source and sub are sharing the same 15amp outlet, would this degrade the quality of signal with which the 4B which is capable if it is drawing most if not all the current.

[James Tanner]

Just a few more questions before I make a decision between a 3BSST or a 4BSST.
Obviously the 4B would be more power but would it benefit my system as I do have everything crossed over with my Weldon to augment the bottom end.
James did recommend the 4B as my volume on the BP25 does get to 11-12 o’clock although I’ve never gotten near to clipping my current 3B ST.
Would I experience more ease on the production, sort of like two people of different strengths lifting the same weight?
My biggest concern would be that my current location for listening has only one wall outlet with no options to add another, therefore everything lights TV (when used) the amp, preamp, source and sub are sharing the same 15amp outlet, would this degrade the quality of signal with which the 4B which is capable if it is drawing most if not all the current.

Hi Rob,

The 4B ST can draw a maximum of 10 amps at 8 ohms at full power. Preamps and source gear draw milli-amps so a 15 amp circuit would be fine.

james

[rob80b]

Thanks James

[KeithA]

Hi Rob,

The 4B ST can draw a maximum of 10 amps at 8 ohms at full power. Preamps and source gear draw milli-amps so a 15 amp circuit would be fine.

james

Rob

As well, the addition of one of the Torus units at some point could only help. As a minimum, it would serve to isolate the stereo from the tv and lights that would be connected to the same outlet as well as giving some great surge protection. Even if it seems now that there's not much intereference by the tv and lights, i think you'd be surprised by the impact of one of those units. I'd bet you'd find a noticable difference with a Torus in the system, even froma system performance perspective. Just a thought of something you could do down the road.

Keith

[rob80b]

Hi Keith

I was a little concerned about blowing fuses after reading this in the 3B/4BSST manual.

“Note: the 4B SST when operated with both channels delivering maximum power into 4 ohm loads, will consume all the available power in a normal household circuit, therefore a dedicated electrical circuit may be necessary with this situation.”

I’m running a pair of Dynaudio Contours rated at 4ohms and sometimes do get the opportunity to crank it up a bit,(ok more than a bit) and thought maybe that the 4BSST would not perform at it's full potential even if it could not draw enough current and that the 3BSSTwould a better choice under the circumstances.

Robert

[rob80b]

Actually just came across this from Stereophile's review from May, 1992 on the 4B NRB


"The new 4B amplifier's power supply is a relatively "stiff " design, and has been designed to be relatively unaffected by big current draws. The rails are said not to sag from their ±85V, whether the amp is at 0 or 10 amps current draw.".

So one could assume things just got better.


Robert

[rob80b]

Ok, by popular opinion, I've taken James advice and many others and added the 4BSST to my roster.
I shall let it bed in for a few days, initial impressions are that the upper end is more extended (brighter, more revealing?) ,a sense of more power (obviously) and a heavy beast at that.
In a week or so I'll do a comparative review with the 3BST and get back with the results.

[mkaiser]

Ok, by popular opinion, I've taken James advice and many others and added the 4BSST to my roster.
I shall let it bed in for a few days, initial impressions are that the upper end is more extended (brighter, more revealing?) ,a sense of more power (obviously) and a heavy beast at that.
In a week or so I'll do a comparative review with the 3BST and get back with the results.

Please do report your findings Rob as i am thinking of going with a 4BSST or 2 PP300 on a pair of Totem Mani-2 Signatures. Like your Dynaudio Contours the Mani's are also 4 ohm speakers, 200w with a sensitivity of 85dB.

Happy listening.
-Mark

[rob80b]

Please do report your findings Rob as i am thinking of going with a 4BSST or 2 PP300 on a pair of Totem Mani-2 Signatures. Like your Dynaudio Contours the Mani's are also 4 ohm speakers, 200w with a sensitivity of 85dB.

Happy listening.
-Mark

Hi Mark

Comparing the 4BSST to the 3BST the first impressions were one of more extension or clarity in the highs and more power.
But where the improvements with 4BSST really shine is on well recorded dynamic recordings, the 3BST is no slouch but the 4BSST recreated more depth and width in the presentation while listening to Dave Holland’s “Prime Directive”, details were better defined and presented naturally, meaning I could hear deeper into to recording.
On one of the reviews somewhere on this forum someone noticed the clicking of the keys of a wind instrument, I had a similar experience on with “Thimar” by Anouar Brahem with John Surman and Dave Holland, I’ve listened to this beautiful recorded disc a number of times even with headphones but with 4BSST it came to light that John Surman needed to clean his spittle from the sax on the second track if I’m not mistaken.
As a fellow wind instrument player, flute and clarinet I found it odd I did not notice this before so I must lay claim to the improved resolution of the SST.
Even listening to some vinyl last night I mentioned in my other thread that “it’s hard to imagine getting a clearer in-sight into the recording”
With your Totem Mani-2 Signatures, they do have Dynaudio drivers but with two each running in tandem, I would think the 4BSST would probably do a fine job depending on your room size and the level you like to listen to.
I probably could have gone for the 3BSST, I put some feelers out for a used one with no results and decided to buy new only to pull the trigger at the last minute on a used 4BSST in order to save (justify) some funds on getting a new BCD-1.
I also thought of just going for a 4BST but I really believe my impulse decision and the advice of others to go with the 4BSST was definitely the better move.

Robert

[rob80b]

One more thing I should have mentioned, I always found my Contours just a touch laid back, so I’m not to sure if it’s having more power over the over the 3BST or the clarity of the SST design, but with the 4BSST I must admit that they have finally woken up.

[rob80b]

Some more observations.
Earlier in another thread I noted  "Comparing the two amps so far the 3BST is the smoother of the two, contrary to what I’ve read from the majority of reviews. The 4BSST has more energy in the highs (as if the EQ was slightly tilted up) but the grounding issue (buzzing) may most likely be the culprit interfering with the overall presentation.", but going through the discs I initially listened to on day one with the 4BSST things have dramatically improved over the last six days. The highs are just about perfect (even with the buzz/hum, not really audible when listening to music) and the base has tightened up producing a beautiful rendition top to bottom.
So the move up was worth it, but a word of caution although I'm not a big purveyor of burn-in, is to give the amp a few days to settle in before making any observations. (now if I can get rid of the buzz things will only get better).

Robert