AudioCircle

Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Captainhemo on 8 Aug 2012, 08:15 pm

Title: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 8 Aug 2012, 08:15 pm
Hi All
After lots of reading and an equal amount of decision changes between the AV3  or N3 kits I finally  went with the N3 kit.  I placed the order with Danny  and had him  ship the cross over components to Ron (Ron on AC) who  gave me a great deal on assembling the  networks for me.    I personally didn't want to attempt the assembly as I'm visually impaired  and didn't feel I was capable of dealing with the small components.  Ron is a great option for  anyone not wanting to assemble  their own networks.

Anyhow,  I started on the cabinets last weekend.
I picked up a sheet of 3/4" MDF from Home Depot and was able to  get a fair amount of the cutting done there.  I had them  cut me 2 8" strips, 2 10" strips,  and a 6.5" strip.  From the  8" strips,  I had them cut me  the 4  front/rear pieces , from the 10"  strips  the 4 sides .
From leftovers of those  pieces, I was able to cut the 4 top/bottom plates.
I must say,  I asked the fellow to be extremely accurate with the cuts  and he  took his time and measured everything  twice before cutting.
When I got home, I cut up the 6.5 " strip into  the various  braces I'd be needing.

Now being that I only  started the weekend with  2 clamps,  I decided to mark out all the bracing positions on 1 side of the cabinet. I'd have to position and glue in  2 braces at a time (using a scrap piece of MDF and the 2 clamps for pressure).  It's very time consuming  doing it like this but  I had to work with what I had.  I had a difficult time keeping the braces square when clamping them down  but  with some  finicking around it is possible.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66223)


The 2 brace B's for each speaker I made from  a 6.5" x 21"  piece.   Once the holes were routed and radiused,  I cut the piece in half, then   cut the  excess from  each   end to make each of the resulting  brace B's  6.5 x10"  with a  semi circles cut in either end.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66224)


I continued  gluing in  2 braces at a time until  they were all  securely in  position.  Next I glued and screwed  the top and bottom  of the cabinet  in place..  Now that I'm writing this,  I realize  that I should have taken more photos slong the way.

I was able to get my hands on a couple more clamps which really helped.    Now I clamped the  second side in place and drilled the  pilot holes fro the screws.   The screws are all slightly countersunk to allow for a  roundover   later. I also slightly countersink the  holes that the screws will be  tighening into making sure that the boards  bind tightly.   Next I applied the glue,  clamps and screwws .

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66225)



Here's how they are looking now.  I'm pleased witht he results thus far.   I obviously need to invest in more clamps  for future builds.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66226)
As you can see,  these are  front vented so the TL has been  flip flopped.

I was also able to get the front baffles  cut out.   The rear of the woofer holes  are rounded over with a 3/8  radius.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66227)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66228)

More to come.














Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Ron on 8 Aug 2012, 08:33 pm
  Looking good so far Jay!  :)  Anxious to see more photographs as you progress with your build.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: django11 on 8 Aug 2012, 11:07 pm
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 9 Aug 2012, 08:40 am
I received my cross overs from Ron  the other day.  Here are a few pics

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66229)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66230)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66231)

Now looking ahead a bit and remembering that the TL is flip flopped, should I be  putting these  on the front baffle  right below the  2nd woofer  and above brace E ?   It's either  there  or on the  back panel between brace D and brace F   which would be a tighter fit. Is the placement going to effect the  TL?

I'm going to be  doing the DIY no res  for these speakers. I was able to get  a hold of some good thick commercial  lino to line the cabinets with.  I'll hopefully get going on that i n the next day or  so.

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: django11 on 9 Aug 2012, 11:33 am
Note to Danny.  I like how Ron labels stuff for the non technical minded.  This type of picture should be stickied somewhere for those of us who want to build speaker but don't care to learn how to read schematics.

Ron very kindly sent me a picture of his crossovers when I built my N3s. 
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Aug 2012, 03:15 pm
Quote
on the  back panel between brace D and brace F


I'd go with that.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 9 Aug 2012, 04:49 pm
I'd go with that.

I was originally thinking that too, but  was worried   it may somewhat block  that part of the TL with brace E (on the ront panel) in between  D & F.  It will fit there, but like I said, I am just a bit worried about it blocking the TL
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Aug 2012, 06:38 pm
I was originally thinking that too, but  was worried   it may somewhat block  that part of the TL with brace E (on the ront panel) in between  D & F.  It will fit there, but like I said, I am just a bit worried about it blocking the TL

That part of the TL is large and air flow is not going to be inhibited.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 13 Aug 2012, 03:57 am
Ok,  got going o nthe lino  this weekend. 
First I guled on the rear panel.  I only had the 4 clamps so I also used 4 screws

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66383)


I cut all the rear wall pieces then used contact cement to  glue them in place  While  the contact cement was drying, I started cutting the rest of the  pieces.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66386)



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66384)

Working on the 2nd  speaker now.  I'm  not having a whole lot of fun  messing with the contact cement.  I'm kind of seeing the attraction of  self stick  lino tiles or  the no res  now
More soon

-jay

Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 14 Aug 2012, 07:39 pm
I've  got the 2nd speaker  all  lined with  lino .

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66462)

Appareently I have gone a bit overboard with the lino. After looking at the plans,  I see that only the rear wall needed lino all the way down.  I also did the sides  right down to the top of the  vent chamber.   Is this going to be ok ?  If so, I'm assumin g aI only need to run the foam down the sides to the top of brace "D" as indicateed in the plans ?
Also the plans show the   no res starting  a bit "behind"  the drivers.... how far back  from the front baffle  should I start the foam ?
Thanks

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 16 Aug 2012, 04:01 am
And here they sit tonight after getting  most of the foam cut  and test fitted.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66510)

I haven't glued the foam in yet.  It has been suggestted  tome  to use  3M 77 spray adhesive to glue  this stuff in.  Is this the best way to go   or  does anyone have any other suggestiions ?
I guess next  I'll position the crossovers and  drill the pilot holes for mounting. 
Getting there :)
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: lacro on 16 Aug 2012, 01:39 pm
3M 77 is a good choice. I have used it for years for many projects. I just used it to glue in fiberglass in my build. I suggest you do it outside as the aerosol may get on things you don't want it to. Also, it is a contact cement, so be careful installing the foam because once it sticks, it sticks!

Larry
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 16 Aug 2012, 07:15 pm
So does it mater if overspray gets on the internal bracing etc  ?  I would have thought it  would be good to keep the bracing  as "clean" as possible ?    Does it matter  whether the barces surfaces are smooth or " gluey"  ?   Probably a dumb ? but....
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: nzone on 16 Aug 2012, 07:23 pm
Long time lurker, first time posting.

3M 77 odor smells so strong and toxic.  I would just use regular wood glue to stick the foam to the cabinet wall.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 16 Aug 2012, 08:58 pm
Long time lurker, first time posting.

3M 77 odor smells so strong and toxic.  I would just use regular wood glue to stick the foam to the cabinet wall.

That would definitely  make it easier to  position the foam  and not have to worry about the instant  stick of   3m 77.  Does the wood glue stick weel to the foam and vinyl  ?
Thanks

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Danny Richie on 16 Aug 2012, 09:07 pm
Long time lurker, first time posting.

3M 77 odor smells so strong and toxic.  I would just use regular wood glue to stick the foam to the cabinet wall.

Welcome to AC!
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: pureiso on 16 Aug 2012, 09:27 pm
That would definitely  make it easier to  position the foam  and not have to worry about the instant  stick of   3m 77.  Does the wood glue stick weel to the foam and vinyl  ?
Thanks

-jay

I haven't had issues with that, or any other construction adhesive for that matter.  I actually used a caulking gun and Locktite when I did this to a few of my speakers...
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: nzone on 16 Aug 2012, 09:29 pm
That would definitely  make it easier to  position the foam  and not have to worry about the instant  stick of   3m 77.  Does the wood glue stick weel to the foam and vinyl  ?
Thanks

-jay

I didn't realize you have linoleum floor lined the walls.  May I ask what was the reason behind doing this way?  It *could* work after the glue is fully dried.  In this case, adhesive caulking is probably a better choice.  I would avoid the 3M 77 though.  That thing made me disoriented easily.

   
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: nzone on 16 Aug 2012, 09:32 pm
Welcome to AC!

Thanks Danny!  I have been studying the N3 TL for quite some time.   :)
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 16 Aug 2012, 09:46 pm
I was just assuming that the 3m 77 was like contact cement and that  once it touched  the  surface,  it wold pretty much stick   at that spot.  Like you say,  I guess any construction adhesive will work and not have that instant stick issue.
I've actually just glued a scrap piece of  foam to  a scrap piece of vinyl using some wood glue just to see how well it will stick.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Danny Richie on 16 Aug 2012, 11:05 pm
Thanks Danny!  I have been studying the N3 TL for quite some time.   :)

Well, sounds like it is time to build a pair so you can join the club.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 17 Aug 2012, 03:54 pm
Well, sounds like it is time to build a pair so you can join the club.
Agreed !!  I'm sure glad I finally decided to build a set and can't wait to hea them 
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: nzone on 17 Aug 2012, 05:34 pm
Well, sounds like it is time to build a pair so you can join the club.

Not yet.  There are too many things going on right now.  I haven't finished my room treatments yet since March ( 2 24x24x72 bass traps, 5 24x6x48 broadband traps). After this is done, I will need to build new enclosures for the two sets of dual 15" Rythmik.  I have them now in dual-opposed configuration.  I want to change it to dual front-firing configurations.   Perhaps, I could pre-build the N3 TL enclosures at the same time.   

The N3 center looks too small....the LS Center looks too big...Danny how about something in the middle (enclosure size wise): M165-16 | Neo10 | Neo3 | Neo10 | M165-16 or M130-16 | Neo8 | Neo3 | Neo8 | M130-16 as center?

Captainhemo:

How is it going with glue the foam to Lino?  I apologize for trolling in your thread.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 17 Aug 2012, 11:41 pm

Captainhemo:

How is it going with glue the foam to Lino?  I apologize for trolling in your thread.
No worries ...
I tried the wood glue with a couple pieces but it doesn't stick very well to the vinyl.  Went out and picked up a can of the  3M Super 77 and it worked great  :thumb:
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: fschris on 18 Aug 2012, 01:38 pm
great looking build.... Following.  I am building some Zaph TT's right now. 
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 18 Aug 2012, 03:33 pm
great looking build.... Following.  I am building some Zaph TT's right now.
Glad you like it ..  Do you have a build thread going as well ?
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Aug 2012, 04:17 am
Well, I didn't get a whole lot done this weekend.    I did finish  gluing in the foam so that is out of the weay.  After getting that done,  I decided to roughly  fit and sand  the fron baffles .  When screwed in place they actually came out pretty  close   Not to much sanding was required to get a decent fit.  All the edges have had a  first sanding.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66615)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66616)

Now,  I'm going to be using fiberglass insulation  for the   " stuffing" in the areas shown in the plans.  What I'm wondering is  how  thick  should the insulation be in the areas indicated above brace "d" and brace "e" ??
Also, when I get to the  point wher I'm  putting it in behind the woofers,   do I need to make sure  that the   semi circle openings in brace  b  is kept clear  or do I  fill with  insulation  right over the openings as  it is kind of shown in the plan ?

I've got to get the  vent openings cut out.  I ordered a cheap flush trim  bit   from China .  Usually delivery  from China has been bery quick in the past but this seems to be taking a little longer, hope it shows this week.
Next build I do I'll make sure  I do all the cutting/fitting before  gluing in the  vinyl/foam.

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Ron on 20 Aug 2012, 01:57 pm
  You are doing a great job Jay.  :thumb: Keep up the good work. Anxious to see pictures of the finished speakers and your opinion as to how they sound. Thanks for posting pictures of your construction progress for others to see.

Ron
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Aug 2012, 04:08 pm
  You are doing a great job Jay.  :thumb: Keep up the good work. Anxious to see pictures of the finished speakers and your opinion as to how they sound. Thanks for posting pictures of your construction progress for others to see.

Ron

Thanks Ron  They are coming along pretty nicely.    Need to  still cut the  round over on the ooutside edges and the vent holes.  After that,  I'll get the  crossovers mounted and glue on the various pieces of insulation (still not sure how thick to make these).
 After that,  I should be good to glue on the front panels and start into the finishing stages
Can';t wait to hear them  :)
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Aug 2012, 11:01 pm
Here's why not to buy cheap router bits from China.   1st   use with this bit and the friggin bearing came off ....  before I noticed it, the damage was done.
Looks like  I'll be making a new  baffle  and doing some creative  thinkiing for the inside of the  vent which now needs some repairs.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63743)

I'm not a happy person at the moment :(
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: nickd on 22 Aug 2012, 04:52 pm
Bummer on the router damage. :(

While you repair the damage, I would recomend a trip to Wallmart for some poly-fiber-fill. I wouldn't put fiberglass in a vented box. You don't want glass particles floating around in your home, not good for the lungs you know. The Poly fiber is cheap, safe to handle and makes great speaker stuffing.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 22 Aug 2012, 06:38 pm
Bummer on the router damage. :(

While you repair the damage, I would recomend a trip to Wallmart for some poly-fiber-fill. I wouldn't put fiberglass in a vented box. You don't want glass particles floating around in your home, not good for the lungs you know. The Poly fiber is cheap, safe to handle and makes great speaker stuffing.

Yeah,  the router damage is a bummer,  I wouldn't be recomending  those cheap bits to anyone L(

Good tip on the FG, I'll look into the poly  Fiber.  Thanks !
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: django11 on 23 Aug 2012, 11:38 am
Sorry to hear about you problem.  I wonder if it might have been just a case of tightening the screw on the bearing on the bit before using it?  Something I don't normally do but will now keep in mind.

As a side note, I like to tell my clients that my 20 years of  experience is 20 years of mistakes and accidents that I won't repeat.  I still make new mistakes though...
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Hank on 23 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
Ha :lol:  Me too, django!
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 23 Aug 2012, 03:58 pm
Sorry to hear about you problem.  I wonder if it might have been just a case of tightening the screw on the bearing on the bit before using it?  Something I don't normally do but will now keep in mind.

As a side note, I like to tell my clients that my 20 years of  experience is 20 years of mistakes and accidents that I won't repeat.  I still make new mistakes though...

You're right,  that is quite possible.  I also never check  the screw ,  not a mistake I will make again .    I can't even find the screw   from this particular bit.   The bearing was sitting in the bottom of the cabinet , but no sign of the screw so I don't know what happened to it.

I think we all have made our fair share of mistakes over the years.   What you telll you clients is a great way of looking at it.  Live and learn   :)

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: lacro on 23 Aug 2012, 04:22 pm
You're right,  that is quite possible.  I also never check  the screw ,  not a mistake I will make again .    I can't even find the screw   from this particular bit.   The bearing was sitting in the bottom of the cabinet , but no sign of the screw so I don't know what happened to it.

I think we all have made our fair share of mistakes over the years.   What you telll you clients is a great way of looking at it.  Live and learn   :)

-jay

 Jay,
 Sorry to hear about your mishap. I suggest you get a magnet out and run it all over to try to find the screw. It is probably a tiny M2 or M3 hex socket hex cap screw, and won't be real easy to find at your local hardware. Although you may get lucky.
 How bad is the damage? Do you have pictures? You may be able to repair it with Durhams Putty as it works very well on MDF. Or maybe you can just cut our the section of damaged board, and ship-lap a new piece in.

Larry
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 23 Aug 2012, 04:35 pm
Jay,
 Sorry to hear about your mishap. I suggest you get a magnet out and run it all over to try to find the screw. It is probably a tiny M2 or M3 hex socket hex cap screw, and won't be real easy to find at your local hardware. Although you may get lucky.
 How bad is the damage? Do you have pictures? You may be able to repair it with Durhams Putty as it works very well on MDF. Or maybe you can just cut our the section of damaged board, and ship-lap a new piece in.

Larry

Hey Larry
I'll tty using a magnet to fid the screw, hopefully that will work.  I've pretty much got the cabinet repaired.   I ended up   routing out the damage and gluing in some new strips  to make the vent    nice and   straight again.  I actually didn't take picutres, I was too frustrated to een think of that.   I will take a  coule of the repair  and  show what i did.
The baffle is a different story, it was really gouged in one spot... I may just    make an entire new  baffle as I have  enough spare MDF  lying around.    I  have tried to repair it just to see how it would be.    Same idea, glued in some new pieces    but not sure  they will hold up to   being  rouited to fit the cabinet opening, we'll see.  If they do, Iguess it will be fine.
I guess things were going too smoothly ,  Murphy's law had to kick in at somepoint

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 24 Aug 2012, 11:50 pm
Here are a few pics of the  vent and babble repair.    I'm actually not expecting the baffle repair to  work  as I don't think it will holld up to routing. The baffle  has had all four edges "replaced" ajnd thus needs to be  routed with the trim bit..  If it sdoesn't hold up ,  I'll be cutting a new baffle.  I'll probably just do that any way but it will be fun to see if the repair can hold up.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66765)

The vent  will be fine.  Another coat of wood putty on each side and we should be good to go again.
Here it is right side up.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66766)

And from the bottom (upside down)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66767)

I'll try routing it tomorrow and see what happens.

BTW, I never did find the screw that fell out of the  bit  .  However, I pulled out my  old RC helicopter  parts bins and found a small screw that fit so I have a bit again :)  Used Loctite and  crankded that little screw  as tight as  I could . 
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Aug 2012, 12:33 am
The repair held up fine to being routed .  I was surprised as I figured the  pieces I glued in would have  just been torn out by the router. Stron bonds..
Didn't get much more done than cutting the two vents out as I was  on lemonade seeling duty with  my niece :)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66844)
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: django11 on 26 Aug 2012, 01:52 am
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Ron on 26 Aug 2012, 11:59 am
Jay,

  Sorry to hear about the problems caused by your defect router bit. Over the years I have encountered similar problems myself using a router so I know how frustrating it can be. The repair you did looks good.
Appears you are close to having the cabinets ready to paint. Have you desided yet on the paint? Also, if you
plan to use a 3/8" or 1/2" radius for the cabinet edges ? Looking good. :thumb:
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: lacro on 26 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
Hey Jay,
 Looking good! Glad your repair worked out. I won't tell anybody about it :).
I do have a suggestion if your going the do a radius on some or all edges. I suggest you do most of the filling and leveling BEFORE you cut the radius. I did the radius first, and I am finding out the long board sanding is leveling the MDF nicely, but is slightly flattening the radius :nono:

Larry
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Aug 2012, 05:06 pm
Thanks guys,  glad the secret is  safe :)

Ron,   I thought I'd do a  3/8"  to start with and see how it looks.  I can alays go over it with the 1/2"  if need be.
Larry,   that's a good point,  Ill  do most of the   sanding before I  do the roundover.  Will also make sure i  run the bearing downt he  edge without the screws  ( I read your post regarding that )

One thing  I'm  a bit concerned about is  access to the crossovers.  Once I glue the front baffles on,  it is going to make accessing the crossovers pretty much impossible.  At this point I'm wishing I had  only screwed the rear panels in place so they'd be removable  but I'm afraid  that's no longer an option.
Should I be  consdiering  only installing the front baffles with screws or even considering mounting the  crossovers on the   back of the speaker with some kind of removable covers  ?
Any suggestions  ?

jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: lacro on 26 Aug 2012, 05:22 pm
Thanks guys,  glad the secret is  safe :)

Ron,   I thought I'd do a  3/8"  to start with and see how it looks.  I can alays go over it with the 1/2"  if need be.
Larry,   that's a good point,  Ill  do most of the   sanding before I  do the roundover.  Will also make sure i  run the bearing downt he  edge without the screws  ( I read your post regarding that )

One thing  I'm  a bit concerned about is  access to the crossovers.  Once I glue the front baffles on,  it is going to make accessing the crossovers pretty much impossible.  At this point I'm wishing I had  only screwed the rear panels in place so they'd be removable  but I'm afraid  that's no longer an option.
Should I be  consdiering  only installing the front baffles with screws or even considering mounting the  crossovers on the   back of the speaker with some kind of removable covers  ?
Any suggestions  ?

jay

Jay,
 On mine the crossover is going on the bottom. I have them located and holes drilled. They are not presently installed. I will be putting them through the woofer hole, and screwing them down. (I hope :scratch:). Would yours fit on a brace or side/back/top wall with access through a woofer hole?

Larry
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Danny Richie on 26 Aug 2012, 08:59 pm
Jay, I screw my crossovers for that model to the back wall just behind the lower woofer. And getting to it through the woofer hole is no problem.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Aug 2012, 10:58 pm
Jay, I screw my crossovers for that model to the back wall just behind the lower woofer. And getting to it through the woofer hole is no problem.

Ok, I must have misunderstood you earlier.  I thought you had told me to mount it on the back wasll between  brace D and F ( remember these are front vented). 
I'll try and mount it above  D  right behind the  lower woofer as you   say.

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 30 Aug 2012, 11:44 pm
Ok the crossovers were just  a bit too big  to fit  behind the lower woofer.  With brace D  being on the rear wall   due to the front vent design,     the space behind the lower woofer  is smaller than  normal.
I really didn't ,ike  the idea  of making the front baffles remvable  but I also didn't want to  bury the c/o's   leaving no access.
So I decided to go with an acess panel on the rear wall.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66999)

The  panels will be  large enough to  hold the c/o and the electa tubes.
Here they are installed  and rounded over

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67000)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67001)

The panels were made from 3/4" MDF .  After they were fit in place,  I  glued  lino to the inside face.  C/O's will go on top of that.  This was kind of an unexpect hic-up in the build but I think it will look ok  once the cabinets are painted and it will make accessing the C/O's  pretty easy if ever need be.

I also did a 3/8" roundover on the  rest of the cabinet.  I've been condidering doing a 1/2" roundover  but  am not sure  .  Leave it as 3/8 or do the 1/2  ?

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67002)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67003)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67004)

Now for a question.  How much poly fill do I put on the front and rear walls in the bottom woofer chamber ?

Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Danny Richie on 31 Aug 2012, 03:46 am
Quote
Now for a question.  How much poly fill do I put on the front and rear walls in the bottom woofer chamber ?

See page 5, 6, and 7 of the plans.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Ron on 31 Aug 2012, 11:07 am
   I think the access panel is better way to go  than mounting the crossover on the back of the cabinet with a cover over it. The 3/8" roundover looks nice. A 1/2" roundover might be too much. Do you plan to paint them soon? Looking good !
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 31 Aug 2012, 03:11 pm
   I think the access panel is better way to go  than mounting the crossover on the back of the cabinet with a cover over it. The 3/8" roundover looks nice. A 1/2" roundover might be too much. Do you plan to paint them soon? Looking good !
Hoping to  paint fairly soon.   Finally picked up a big bag of poly fill so I can  get   the lower stuff glued in place fefore gluing on the baffles.  I think  I'll  try and get the grill frames done too.  Getting closer :)
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: lacro on 31 Aug 2012, 04:15 pm
Hoping to  paint fairly soon.   Finally picked up a big bag of poly fill so I can  get   the lower stuff glued in place fefore gluing on the baffles.  I think  I'll  try and get the grill frames done too.  Getting closer :)

 Man! that's looking great. You have been a busy boy! I did the 3/8" roundover too, but I think I am going to do the 1/2" on mine. On yours I think the 3/8" is probably better. Mine are chunky little boxes, narrow and deep, and I want the bigger radius look. Something like this http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-A5 (http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-A5)

Larry
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 1 Sep 2012, 12:39 am
Man! that's looking great. You have been a busy boy! I did the 3/8" roundover too, but I think I am going to do the 1/2" on mine. On yours I think the 3/8" is probably better. Mine are chunky little boxes, narrow and deep, and I want the bigger radius look. Something like this http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-A5 (http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-A5)

Larry

Hey Larry
Yeah,  things are  moving along  pretty good right now (knock  knock).  I did a 1/2" roundover on  my sub and it looks pretty good .   I'm still not sure   if I'm going to stay  with the 3/8 or go to the 1/2,  the basses are  quite thick and I think the 1/2 would look better  on them but I really don't want mix the two.
Got one of the front baffles glued on this afternoon.... I can only do  1 at a time,  need more clamps.
Not sure  I will get to painting this weekend but hopefully  I'll at least get them primed.  we'll see.

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: lacro on 1 Sep 2012, 11:26 am
Hey Larry
Yeah,  things are  moving along  pretty good right now (knock  knock).  I did a 1/2" roundover on  my sub and it looks pretty good .   I'm still not sure   if I'm going to stay  with the 3/8 or go to the 1/2,  the basses are  quite thick and I think the 1/2 would look better  on them but I really don't want mix the two.
Got one of the front baffles glued on this afternoon.... I can only do  1 at a time,  need more clamps.
Not sure  I will get to painting this weekend but hopefully  I'll at least get them primed.  we'll see.

-jay

 Jay,
 I know what you mean, both the 3/8" and the 1/2" look good. I don't think you will be unhappy with either. Did you have to use bondo or some other filler to level any low spots or were all your loints perfect :lol:?
 Are you going to seal the boxes with shellac, watered down glue, or just the primer?

Larry
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 1 Sep 2012, 04:12 pm
Jay,
 I know what you mean, both the 3/8" and the 1/2" look good. I don't think you will be unhappy with either. Did you have to use bondo or some other filler to level any low spots or were all your loints perfect :lol:?
 Are you going to seal the boxes with shellac, watered down glue, or just the primer?

Larry
Hehe,  no my joints weren't perfect.  I had to do some filling and sanding.  I used some wood filler my  father reccomended.  I also used it on my sub and it  has stayed in place well thus far. 
I was actually just planning on  a couple coats of  primer  like I did on the sub followed by a couple  coats of  the truck bed liner.
Unless a guy is going to try and seal the entire cabinet like you  are talking about in your build thread,  I don't really see the point in  just doing the outside.  I would think  that the TBL over the primer is going to seal  the ouside just as well ?

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 4 Sep 2012, 05:56 am
Well,  I didn't make it to primer  but I did get  quite a bit done this past weekend.
Spent the better part of a day filling screw holes, low spots,   and sanding.  It was a lot of work.   When I glued the front baffles on, I   drilled quite a few new   screw holes  to make sure  I got  them good and  tight.   I only  have  four clamps so  screws were the  only other option.
I've been following Larry's LS Encore build thread  and all the talk  about sealing edges  got me a bit worriee as I had only planned  to  use a  couple coats of primer  followed by  a couple coats of truck bed liner.  Anyway,  I decieded   to "seal" the  cabinetsc using a ouple coats  of  a wood glue / water mixture (75/25) before   applying the primer  After each  coat  I lightly sanded with 400 grit paper..
They have come out really nice  .  I hope the glue mixture does a  good job of sealing up   the edges and the rest of the MDF for that matter.

This is where they  stand now..


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67219)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67220)

I'm glad  I  did this "extra step"  now that  it is done.  Maybe tomorrow I'll get  a couple coats of primer on.
I also  got the grills  cut and routed out  over the weekend.  Had a bit of a mishap  when my Craftsmen router's  plunge depth  setting  slipped   which was a bit frustrating..  Appareently the aluminum body   (where the set screw  is tightened)  has  stripped .    This particular router  isn't even  a coule months old so I'll be taking it bak to Sears  and  trying to have it replaced
I was able to save the grill  so no real harm was done but  it's still frustrating. 
 Still haven't decied whether to leave the grills square with roundovers  or  go with the oval   shaped grills.  I like them both.
No pics fo the grill frames yet, will try and post some tomorrow.

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Ron on 4 Sep 2012, 10:15 am
  Looking good Jay!  :D  Glad that you decided to apply a couple of coats of wood glue on the edges and the rest of the cabinets before you
use the primer. Guess you decided to leave the 3/8" radius on the edges instead of going to 1/2"  The 3/8" does look good. I read about two other products that are suppose to be good for sealingl the edges on MDF. One is a product called Duraglass Jel Filler which is an automotive type body filler and the other is dry wall compound which is available from home building supply stores like Home Depot. I plan to experiment with both this week along with the wood glue to see which ones work best.  Please post pictures after you paint the enclosures.

Ron
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 4 Sep 2012, 03:47 pm
  Looking good Jay!  :D  Glad that you decided to apply a couple of coats of wood glue on the edges and the rest of the cabinets before you
use the primer. Guess you decided to leave the 3/8" radius on the edges instead of going to 1/2"  The 3/8" does look good. I read about two other products that are suppose to be good for sealingl the edges on MDF. One is a product called Duraglass Jel Filler which is an automotive type body filler and the other is dry wall compound which is available from home building supply stores like Home Depot. I plan to experiment with both this week along with the wood glue to see which ones work best.  Please post pictures after you paint the enclosures.

Ron

Hi Ron
I applied the wood glue / water mix  with a small 3" roller.  I started out  witht he intention of just doing the  edges/seams but   ended up  doing everything.   The mixture  ends up drying  pretty smooth and really does make the seams  "invisible".  Like I said, I'm glad I did it.
Keep us posted on how it goes with the  Jel filler  and the drywall compund.
I'll post some  pics after I get the priming done

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Sep 2012, 01:50 am
I put on 2 coats of flat black primer.  Sanded with 400 grit  between coats and after 2nd.   Still a couple little spots to work on but  just about there.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67291)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67317)

I'm still  planning on using the truck bed liner  for a finish.  Now I've used the spray on  liner from a spray bomb but I was wondering if anyone has used the roll on  typre.  I am actually considering trying  the roll on  as I assume you'd get a lot more texture
Any thoughts regarding  this  ?

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Ron on 6 Sep 2012, 12:13 pm
  They look good Jay even with just the primer coat. Did you use a spray or roll on type primer? Anxious to see how they look with the liner finish. I would think that if you roll on the liner coat with a foam roller it would have more texture than if it were sprayed on.

Ron
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Sep 2012, 03:05 pm
It was a roll on primer which is what gave me the idea of using the roll on  TBl.   I'm really considering trying it.  I'm sure if I wasn't happy with it,  I could always  spray a final top coat
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: jeffh on 6 Sep 2012, 05:54 pm
You might want to check with a couple of your local spray in bed liner companies. They might spray them for you cheaper than you think.  I took a wagon to one a while back and they only charged me $30.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: jparkhur on 6 Sep 2012, 07:14 pm
Ditto.  I took a set of speakers to the motorcycle shop and they sprayed it candy blue when they had a car come in.  50 bucks and a sixer of beer...  JP
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Sep 2012, 08:52 pm
Thanks for the tips  guys... I may  look into that although  transporttion is tough for me.  I'm legally blind so  no driving for me and I don't know many  folks with  trucks anymore. 
I can pick up a quart  for $4 0 or the spray bombs are $10/can.  I used  2 cans on my sub so  I'd gues  2 or 3 cans / speaker.

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 11 Sep 2012, 07:39 pm
Well,  after a weekend of many blunders,  I finally  got   these cabinets  painted this morning. It was all supposed to be done   by Sun eve but   that just didn't happen.

Inded up  finally spraying them with the  Home Depot  truck bed liner,  the same stuff I used on  my sub. It isn't rubbery  at all  and   gives a nice satin black, lightly textured final finish.  The TBL  sprays on surprisingly thin and soesn't hide  imperfections  as well as you'd might expect so  getting the cabinets prepped well is key.
After spraying them  with   2 coats,  I'm  pleased with how they turned out.  Here are a few pic...

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67583)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67584)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67585)

Going to go work on getting the  xo's mounted to the access panels and installing the elecra tubes

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: django11 on 11 Sep 2012, 09:05 pm
Looking good...
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Ron on 11 Sep 2012, 09:31 pm
  Your N3 TL's look great Jay. I like the satin black finish. Great job!  :thumb:

Ron
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 14 Sep 2012, 12:07 am
Got a quick question about the poly fill  behind the top woofer and the tweeter....
I can see from the diagram where the poly fill needs to be but   how loose do I  place  it in  there ?  Just loosely fill the  chamber  ?
Also,  I'm  assuming that the  rear holes in  the br ace B's get covered up with poly fill  ?
Thanks guys

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Ron on 14 Sep 2012, 12:14 pm
  I recommend lightly filling the back half of the cabinet with poly-fil. By lightly filling I mean the poly-fill should be fluffed out and not compressed.
The rear hole in the brace will be covered but this is not a problem.

Ron
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: lacro on 15 Sep 2012, 11:46 am
Jay,
They are looking great! You are really moving along.. How did the glue slurry thing work for you, was it difficult to sand, any problems with paint adhesion?

Larry

Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 15 Sep 2012, 04:09 pm
Jay,
They are looking great! You are really moving along.. How did the glue slurry thing work for you, was it difficult to sand, any problems with paint adhesion?

Larry

Hey Larry
Yes, the finish turned out  really nice.  I'm glad I covered the cabinets with the glue/water mixture.  It rolled on  very easily and   once it was dry  it sanded very easily.  I started with 240 grit  and  did a final   sand with 400  before priming.   
No issues with the primer sticking  to  it.
Surprisingly to many,  the truck bed liner from  home depot sprays on very thin so  having  a well prepped surface is important..  Also worth noting,  the TBL from home depot is not "rubbery" at all.  It drys to a  hard ,  durable finish. I ended up using about 2.5 can  on the 2 speakers.
Almost done,  just need some  help  with the soldering  and it will be payday :)

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: SteveRB on 16 Sep 2012, 05:26 pm
any chance we can get a close up photo of the finish, maybe under a couple different lighting scenarios...?
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 16 Sep 2012, 11:49 pm
any chance we can get a close up photo of the finish, maybe under a couple different lighting scenarios...?
Here's  1.  I  tried to get more but my  battery died in the camera.  I'll get a few more later.  It's tough to get  many different lighting  conditions in the garage,  it's either flash or no flash

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67845)
The finish is quite textured.  When you run your hand over it, it feels like say a  very worn  sheet of 240 grit sandpaper.

There are also a coule shots of my sub in my gallery that show it not too bad.

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 17 Sep 2012, 06:38 pm
Here are a couple more close ups.  Sorry the lighitng isn't a whole lot different

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67871)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67872)

And here is my first attempt at  a grill.  The front side definitely looks better than the backside !  I used contact cement to attach  the cloth and found it difficult to keep things neat .  Hopefully I'll do better on the next one.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67873)


-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: jparkhur on 17 Sep 2012, 07:01 pm
Sometimes this works sometimes not.. I cut a grove in the backside of the grill with a table saw or skill saw and then use window screen rubber to push in the fabric to hold it in.  I also then hide small staples in the grove to keep the kids from tearing the fabric off. 

JP
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 24 Sep 2012, 07:55 am
man ,  I am so happy  and sooo impressed :)
I finally finished up the N3Tl's this afternoon Unfortuinately I had to go with terminals to connect the wires to the drivers for now as I haven't been able to line up  anyone to  do the soldering for me.  I did solder the terminals to the wires as I was able to  do this out in the open where I could easily use a magnifying glass  to see what I was doing When I line someone up  to  solder the drivers ,  I'll have that done but for now this will do.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68231)

Once the drivers were installed,  into the basement they went

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68232)

Final touich was to put the  badges on

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68233)

These sound better than I could have  ever hoped.  I haven't heard a lot of "expensive " ( i know it's realative)  speakers so I'm not able to make comparisons but these   reproduce so  much more than  I have  ever heard.  There is  a lot of really  tight bass that blends  great with my sub.  There is definitely more "punch"   in the room.  Mids and highs are   amazing  as well. I'm  hearing  symbols in music that  I   had never heard before.  It's great
hehe,  I'm  so  friggin happy,  perma grin  for the evening  :)
Got to go listen to some more tunes  !!

-jay


Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: TrungT on 24 Sep 2012, 08:15 am
^^^^^
Great job, looking good.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Ron on 24 Sep 2012, 09:45 am
  Your finished N3 TL's look great Jay!!  Good job !  :thumb:  I knew that you would be very pleased with their sound quality. The N3 TL's are really wonderful sounding speakers. Very clean and detailed. Thanks for all the pictures you posted during the build for others to see.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: django11 on 24 Sep 2012, 11:27 am
I'm glad you like them J.  Nice job too!
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: rajesh on 24 Sep 2012, 06:37 pm
Great job Captainhemo. You guys rock. :thumb:
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: lacro on 24 Sep 2012, 09:22 pm
Jay,
 They look great parked next to the TV :thumb:. Are they for double duty, HT and music? When are you going to build a center to go with them? Unlike me, you sure made quick work of those cabinets. Glad they sound good, that's the most important thing. Those are on my short list now that I have been bitten by the bug....

Larry
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 24 Sep 2012, 11:10 pm
Thanks for the comments guys .
Larry,  I  plan on  doing the center channel fairly soon as they are for double duty,  although mostly  music.  Probably a 70/30 split.  I think I'm going to do a pair of X LS mini's  for a christmas gift for my niece before the center channel. It's tough to start another project right now as I'm   at the top of thekidney transplant list and  could get a call any day.  Once that happens ,  I'll probably be  in Vancouver for 6 - 8 weeks.  Kind of  crumby time of the year  for this but can't really choose when it happens.

I'm just loving the speakers  more and more as I  listen to more  and more  of my music collection. They are so clear and crisp but not at all harsh.  There is so much  detail that I never heard before,  I'm amazed :o
I have listened to a wde variety of music today and they  sound gr eat with everything  thus far.
Watched a movie with my niece last night and  they sounded great  for that as well.
I think the finish  turned out to be a good match for the TV as well.
The  DIY no res seems to have worked well too.   You can put your hand ont he cabinet and feel absolutely nothing.  I have had a penny sitting on its edge  since I started listening to them  and it's still on edge  !

-jay
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: jparkhur on 25 Sep 2012, 12:15 am
Jay, call Danny and have him send me the center channel xo kit and send you the drivers. I'll solder the xo and give you a satin black n3s with removable back. You just need to spray it with the black texture.  Drop me and email or just have Danny send me the parts.  If its ok, shipping and that wicked customs is on you ;)


Jon
Mod-   Just send me everything.    Drivers too

Jon.parkhurst@mac.com

Danny- FYI above
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: oldman45 on 25 Sep 2012, 04:09 am
Jay,  I have been casually following along.  Those speakers turned out nice and you sure got them done quickly.  I hope you enjoy them for many years.  I had the fortune of hearing them at the last show, right after the Super-V's.  Danny disconnected the Super-V's and connected those up to the same equipment, so it was easy to compare the two.  While there was a drop off in presentation between the two sets, it wasn't that much.  They still brought a big smile to my face, just like the Super-V.

I wish you good luck with your surgery.

Jon,  That is a really nice thing to do.
Title: Re: Starting my N3 build
Post by: Captainhemo on 25 Sep 2012, 05:33 am
Jay,  I have been casually following along.  Those speakers turned out nice and you sure got them done quickly.  I hope you enjoy them for many years.  I had the fortune of hearing them at the last show, right after the Super-V's.  Danny disconnected the Super-V's and connected those up to the same equipment, so it was easy to compare the two.  While there was a drop off in presentation between the two sets, it wasn't that much.  They still brought a big smile to my face, just like the Super-V.

I wish you good luck with your surgery.

Jon,  That is a really nice thing to do.
This is going to be quick,  I have to  be up at  5  to head down to Vancouver for  an appointment.
But yes,  I very much agree,  what an awsome  offer from Jon ( I sent you a PM btw). However,  as I explained to Jon,  it's probably not the best time to be shipping a cabinet as I could get a call any day and wouldn't be here  to  receive the package.   On top of that,  shipping would be a killer.  Plus I am enjoying  bilding   the cabinets :)
I really do appreciate  the offer, it's  one of the nicest things anyone has ever done for me .  Thank you   Jon :)

Regarding the   N3's bringing a smile to ones face,  I'm glad I can say  I know the feeling.   Hehe,  I just keep  on  grinning !