[Bigfishhk]

On order- a rythmik f12 370 PEQ sub to join my ST's. Since so many ST owners seem to be running a similar 2.1 set up, I would appreciate your advice.

I am connecting to an integrated amp using the pre amp outs.

option 1. AMP  y cable to single coaxial cable to y cable- Line in on SUB (left and right)
option 2  AMP  y cable to single coaxial cable to into Line in on SUB, either left or right channel only

I believe you can both ways, but that adding the y cable on the sub end gives you more gain.

on rythmik website- " Y splitter can be used to connect a single source signal to both line level inputs.
This connection increases the gain by 6db. It can be used for high efficiency front speakers where more subwoofer
gain may be needed."

In the experience of Song tower owners with a similar set up what do you recommend?

RE CRossover - are you setting cross overs at 50 hz (Jim recommended I start with that)?

Any other tips welcome for a subwoofer newbie.

thanks

TOm

[Nuance]

I'll let those that have their subwoofer connected that way comment on the connection related questions.  My question is this: how big is your listening room?

[Bigfishhk]

it's a open plan with 2 areas with semi partition wall dividing the paces
the listening area/ TV etc is about 1600 cubic feet. . that's where i need it all to sound good. (16 deep x 10 w x 10 high)
the adjoining space  is another 3300 cubic feet- (15 wide, 16 deep, 14 high). I don't expect it to sound good in that part of the space though the sound will obviously flow from the listening area as only partial wall between them.
 tom

[Gzerro]

Not sure on the cabling, but a couple of suggestions:

1. Figure out some way to do in-room measurements of the frequency response so you have an objective way to make adjustments. Simple way would be to get a Radio Shack SPL Meter and download some test tones (Realtraps has test tones you can download with instructions).  Better yet, alot of us here use REW (Room EQ Wizard) which is much better, but it involves hooking up a computer and is more time consuming to setup, but much faster to tweak everything once it is setup.
2. Another option you didn't mention with the Rythmik amp is to run the speaker wires to the Sub, and then the L/R speaker cables would come from the Sub AMP to the speakers. This would give you flexibility to set the crossover wherever it sounds best on the Sub amp. I haven't experimented with this, but is something to consider.

[Nuance]

it's a open plan with 2 areas with semi partition wall dividing the paces
the listening area/ TV etc is about 1600 cubic feet. . that's where i need it all to sound good. (16 deep x 10 w x 10 high)
the adjoining space  is another 3300 cubic feet- (15 wide, 16 deep, 14 high). I don't expect it to sound good in that part of the space though the sound will obviously flow from the listening area as only partial wall between them.
 tom

Wow - that's a large space if you combine the two, which unfortunately I think you need to do.  Bass waves don't know that you'll only be listening in the 16x10x10 portion of that space, and since the room isn't mostly closed off (unless I misunderstood) you have to count the adjoining area.  A small sealed 12" subwoofer won't pressurize that room, and may not offer much slam unless you'll be sitting near-field.  I'm sorry, and I don't mean to rain on your parade.

[Bigfishhk]

Bass waves don't know that you'll only be listening in the 16x10x10 portion of that space, and since the room isn't mostly closed off (unless I misunderstood) you have to count the adjoining area.  A small sealed 12" subwoofer won't pressurize that room, and may not offer much slam unless you'll be sitting near-field.  I'm sorry, and I don't mean to rain on your parade

I'm mainly looking for relatively near field response, cause I don't have room for the bigger sub(s). my listening position is about 10ft from where speakers are so hopefully in that kind of area the sub will retain some 'slam'.. we'll see.

I'll post the results when I have set up and played a bit.

Still hoping someone can answer me about the specific line in cable question.

thanks

[TJHUB]

On order- a rythmik f12 370 PEQ sub to join my ST's. Since so many ST owners seem to be running a similar 2.1 set up, I would appreciate your advice.

I am connecting to an integrated amp using the pre amp outs.

option 1. AMP  y cable to single coaxial cable to y cable- Line in on SUB (left and right)
option 2  AMP  y cable to single coaxial cable to into Line in on SUB, either left or right channel only

I believe you can both ways, but that adding the y cable on the sub end gives you more gain.

on rythmik website- " Y splitter can be used to connect a single source signal to both line level inputs.
This connection increases the gain by 6db. It can be used for high efficiency front speakers where more subwoofer
gain may be needed."

In the experience of Song tower owners with a similar set up what do you recommend?

RE CRossover - are you setting cross overs at 50 hz (Jim recommended I start with that)?

Any other tips welcome for a subwoofer newbie.

thanks

TOm

Option 1 is not an option.  You really can't take a Y-cable and use it to combine signals like that.  There are special "combining" cables you can buy, but they are something like $100.00 for the cheaper ones. 

Option 2 is not an option for the same reason.

When combining a signal like that, you will need some sort of resistor on the negative leads or you can short out your integrated's outputs.  NOT GOOD! 

If you have usable preamp outs that work in combination with the integrated's amp outputs, then you would need to feed the sub's L and R inputs and let the sub's amp combine the signals as it is designed to do.

The "best" solution would be to get an Anti-mode or other subwoofer EQ that could be used to both EQ the sub and provide a high-pass filter for your mains.  I'm afraid your integrated is going to severely limit your options. 

Room EQ Wizard is always a huge plus to know what your sub is doing at your listening position.  I've only experienced 1 room where no subwoofer EQ was needed, and that was Nuance's.  Now that he's added a second sub, he actually needed to add an EQ. 

 

[Bigfishhk]

Option 1 is not an option.  You really can't take a Y-cable and use it to combine signals like that.  There are special "combining" cables you can buy, but they are something like $100.00 for the cheaper ones.

Option 2 is not an option for the same reason.

When combining a signal like that, you will need some sort of resistor on the negative leads or you can short out your integrated's outputs.  NOT GOOD! 

Hi maybe we have crossed wires here!.. the guys at Blue Jeans Cable and at Rythmik are both telling me to connect the subwoofer cable into line in on SUB. therefore Y cable from amp's stereo pre outs connected to single  subwoofer cable, connected to line in (left) on SUB. They said it's one of most normal ways to go.
TOM

[TJHUB]

Option 1 is not an option.  You really can't take a Y-cable and use it to combine signals like that.  There are special "combining" cables you can buy, but they are something like $100.00 for the cheaper ones.

Option 2 is not an option for the same reason.

When combining a signal like that, you will need some sort of resistor on the negative leads or you can short out your integrated's outputs.  NOT GOOD! 

Hi maybe we have crossed wires here!.. the guys at Blue Jeans Cable and at Rythmik are both telling me to connect the subwoofer cable into line in on SUB. therefore Y cable from amp's stereo pre outs connected to single  subwoofer cable, connected to line in (left) on SUB. They said it's one of most normal ways to go.
TOM

I assure you that neither company is telling you to use a Y-cable coming out of your integrated.  If they are, they shouldn't! 

You can use a Y-cable going into the sub; many people to that.  There is no real reason to do it as you won't need the extra gain.  The only time you need the extra gain is if you run out of input gain on the adjustment.  You won't. 

You cannot combine L and R signals with a standard Y splitter.  Those cables are designed to split signals, not combine them.  If you don't believe me, ask someone else you can trust.

[Æ]

Why not Wye?
Why "Y" connectors should never have been created.
Article is also downloadable.
http://www.rane.com/note109.html

[Mudslide]

Edit

[Bigfishhk]

I pretend to have no knowledge this except that blue jeans cable, krell and rhythmic advised me this way to go-

Amp pre out left and right connect to
Y cable
to
Subwoofer coaxial cable
To
Line in left RCA on Sub

[Bigfishhk]

Also the y cable is 1 female to 2 male RCA  if that makes any difference

[TJHUB]

Hi,

Would you mind elaborating on the electrical complexities and why it's not a good idea to use the I-amp's preouts for subwoofer connections?  I have been doing it with a variety of amps for years with no negative outcomes.  But I would like to be educated on the matter...to know if I'm risking my lovely PMA2000ivr.  THanks TJHUB.

I think you are misunderstanding me.  It is not a problem to use the integrated's preouts for a sub.  The problem is that the OP is suggesting using a Y-cable splitter to combine the L and R signals into a single cable running to the sub (which then again would be split by yet another Y-cable into the sub's L and R inputs).  This is where the problem is. 

I said my piece.  I'm no educator, and I don't want to be.  The OP needs to be careful and investigate this further before causing any damage to his integrated (or any other preamp for that matter).

 

[Bigfishhk]

Actually they suggest not using the y cable at the sub end, just subwoofer RCA cable into left channel line in.

But thanks for your feedback, I will do some further checking and post the results.
Tom

[Mudslide]

I think you are misunderstanding me.  It is not a problem to use the integrated's preouts for a sub.  The problem is that the OP is suggesting using a Y-cable splitter to combine the L and R signals into a single cable running to the sub (which then again would be split by yet another Y-cable into the sub's L and R inputs).  This is where the problem is. 

I said my piece.  I'm no educator, and I don't want to be.  The OP needs to be careful and investigate this further before causing any damage to his integrated (or any other preamp for that matter).

Yes...that was an oops on my part...misreading your post.  (Gettin' old does that to a person.)     That's why I edited my post almost immediately.  You're fast.

[stereocilia]

Why not Wye?
Why "Y" connectros should never have been created.
Article is also downloadable.
http://www.rane.com/note109.html

Thanks for the link.  This does make me wonder a couple things:  do the L and R connections on most sub amps create this reduction in channel separation?  What about receivers with dedicated mono subwoofer outputs?

Also, if the second set of (inverting) RCA outputs of a balanced preamp are used then will crosstalk be a still be a problem in the non-inverting ouputs?

I guess this partly explains why a discreet ".1" subwoofer channel makes sense for digital multi-channel formats.

[Saturn94]

....... Those cables are designed to split signals, not combine them......

I was told the exact same thing by Anthem when I inquired about using Y connectors to hook up a BD player and an SACD player via analog to my processor's single set of multichannel inputs.  They warned it was possible I might damage the processor and/or the players.

I suspect there may be some misunderstanding between the OP and the companies he mentioned.

[floresjc]

I have a custom Rythmik built by Jim, with the PEQ amp.

What I do is take the SUB OUT from my processor, and run a single line to the sub. On the sub end, I hook it into a Y cable, which I then plug into the L/R inputs on the sub.

What this does is essentially give me a gain boost, by inputting the same signal twice. Brian at Rythmik had me do this, because my sub wouldn't auto sense the signal and go from standby to on. After doing this, problem solved, and neither the sub nor the processor has blown up.

[srb]

What I do is take the SUB OUT from my processor, and run a single line to the sub. On the sub end, I hook it into a Y cable, which I then plug into the L/R inputs on the sub.

The Sub Out of an AV processor is already a summed mono signal, so you are getting all of the bass content.  But the problem with a stereo integrated amp or preamp, like the OP has, is that the outputs are normally L and R, and using only one of them will only send one channel's bass content to the sub.
 
The question arises if using both L and R pre outs into the sub's L and R line inputs will there be any crosstalk or interaction that affects the main stereo signals?  I would say if the sub's inputs are properly isolated or buffered, the answer is no.
 
Steve