[chester_audio]

I wasnt anywhere near Colorado. And I'm not the one throwing stones. What rooms did you set up?

[Pez]

Daedalus audio. Room 1030 though this year I didn't help out nearly as much as last year with setup.

[S Clark]

I'd like to address this issue of the "impossible" room.  If a designer shows equipment, and it sounds like crap, then it sounds like crap.  No excuses about the room, the thin Denver air, ambient noise, break in,  etc.  For dealers to display their equipment under poor conditions is either arrogance, poor planning, or laziness.  In case I didn't piss off enough people, let me repeat arrogant, poor planning, or lazy. 

For those that really want their stuff to shine, no effort is too great. 

Probably the best treated room was the GR-Research room... and even then these guys weren't completely happy with the sound.  This room had a kitchen with a window cutout into the main room.  It created a low bass suckout (and sure enough, Tyson mentions bass in his review).  We spent hours Friday evening building a false wall of 2x4s, pressboard, and foam to plug the 4'X6' window.  Then they tweaked some of the 10 or 12 diffusors for the upteenth time. 

For those sticking a plant in the corner and calling it done... I don't get it.

[Spirit]

I'd like to address this issue of the "impossible" room.  If a designer shows equipment, and it sounds like crap, then it sounds like crap.  No excuses about the room, the thin Denver air, ambient noise, break in,  etc.  For dealers to display their equipment under poor conditions is either arrogance, poor planning, or laziness.  In case I didn't piss off enough people, let me repeat arrogant, poor planning, or lazy. 

For those that really want their stuff to shine, no effort is too great. 

Probably the best treated room was the GR-Research room... and even then these guys weren't completely happy with the sound.  This room had a kitchen with a window cutout into the main room.  It created a low bass suckout (and sure enough, Tyson mentions bass in his review).  We spent hours Friday evening building a false wall of 2x4s, pressboard, and foam to plug the 4'X6' window.  Then they tweaked some of the 10 or 12 diffusors for the upteenth time. 

For those sticking a plant in the corner and calling it done... I don't get it.

Perfectly stated!!!

[OzarkTom]

I wonder how many of those throwing stones about room setup have ever done it at one of these shows. Maybe there should be a contest at RMAF for some of you to show us your prowess at room setup?

I tried it in 2010 at LSAF. That was the toughest thing I ever did. I thought it would be a cakewalk.  My great sounding home system that was very well broken in sounded like crap. Only after Seth of Virtue loaned me a battery powered modded version of my amp did it started sounding good. Many said I had the most natural sounding system at LSAF, but the sound never came close to what I have at home.

I was very much humbled by the experience and sure respect what the audio companies have to go through every show.

[*Scotty*]

I think unrealistic expectations definitely play a part in forming one's impressions about what is heard at show. I just don't expect much in the way of good sound from the systems I hear at audio shows. Between bad power, small rooms and equipment combinations that have never been tried before, there are a lot of possibilities for things to go horribly wrong.
 With lowered expectations going in I have always been pleasantly surprised when a system doesn't actually hurt my ears, let alone sound above average.
 I think the key thing to remember is that you are ALWAYS listening to the room plus the entire sytem. No meaningful conclusions can be drawn about the performance of individual pieces in a system at a show.
  When the sound you hear at show that is listenable and doesn't hurt it doesn't guarantee that any part of it is above average in performance. It is always easier to get "good"
sound from a system that is "dumbed" down and has a lot of masking present. When masking levels are lower it is far easier to generate combinations of equipment that do not play well together.
 I have always attempted to gather intelligence on equipment that might show the promise of better than average performance under the controlled conditions obtained in my own listening room.
Scotty

[chester_audio]

Tom and Scotty get it.

IF, someone is good, and everything else goes well, things might start to sound ok by Sunday. But I'd bet you all a night at the bar that everyone of those guys wouldn't swear they could much better sound in a room that has had attention paid to it for weeks or months. I know that is true for myself.

Try tearing your system down completely. Move everything into trailer and drive it around town. Then go home and set it back up. How long does it take for things to settle down in your system, in a room you know well?

And, Pez. You did well in that room for Wayne and Lou. I was there.

[Pez]

Thank you, but I can't even try to take any credit this year. I helped very little. Mostly helped out with final tweaking. What you heard was tuned mostly by the two of them with maybe a couple of pointers from me here and there.

[AJinFLA]

I'd like to address this issue of the "impossible" room.  If a designer shows equipment, and it sounds like crap, then it sounds like crap.  No excuses about the room, the thin Denver air, ambient noise, break in,  etc.  For dealers to display their equipment under poor conditions is either arrogance, poor planning, or laziness.  In case I didn't piss off enough people, let me repeat arrogant, poor planning, or lazy. 
For those that really want their stuff to shine, no effort is too great. 

I have to agree.

We spent hours Friday evening building a false wall of 2x4s, pressboard, and foam to plug the 4'X6' window.   

If I hadn't seen it for myself...
Btw, had no idea you were one of those folks in the room. Danny and Dave for sure. You remember a swarthy looking guy named AJ grinning constantly the whole time in the room?
Also Btw, thought the sound was very nicely balanced, even before the "wall".

cheers,

AJ

[jtwrace]

How long does it take for things to settle down in your system, in a room you know well?

 

[chester_audio]

Sorry, Pez. I meant I was there last year but not this year.

[*Scotty*]

I think I know what chester is referring to here.

How long does it take for things to settle down in your system, in a room you know well?

I have noticed over the last 10 years an increasing sensitivity in my equipment to being turned off for more than a couple hours. The sonic consequence of being powered down for more than a couple of hours max, is a grungy quality to the sound that persists for about 1.5 to 2 times the duration of the powered down cycle. This became particularly evident when all components were upgraded to Jensen 4 pole capacitors in their main power supply filter banks.
  Apparently the Jensen 4 pole caps unform enough when no voltage is applied to them that their high frequency impedance rises which subsequently raises the power supplies dynamic impedance. The circuits involved at this point are good enough to tell you when the power supplies dynamic impedance is not as low as it is when the caps are fully formed up.
 This is a small price to pay however, for the blacker background and more dynamic and vivid presentation you can get from using the Jensens in the power supply.
 I have illustrated an extreme situation that exists within the context of my system but the negative impact of the impedance rise in the power supply filter caps due to having no voltage on them is clearly audible in the case of a number of the more transparent circuit designs now available today.
 The solution to the problem is to transport them under powered up conditions by plugging them into an inverter in the vehicle.
Scotty

[JohnR]

Great job, Pez and Tyson  I really enjoyed reading your thoughts and the pics from afar.

[audioengr]

Jason,
As a manufacturer, I agree with 99% of what you say, however the breakin thing is real.  when you have setup systems at shows for 10 years or more and every time it sounds like crap on the setup day and then gets best sound on Sat or Sun, you start to reealize that no matter what you do, it will always be this way.  It does not matter how many weeks of breakin you give the gear prior to shipping to the show.

My theory on this is that there are at least 2 phenomena at work here:

First, shows are generally forums to debut new designs and equipment, so it usually does not hqve the benefit of months of breakin.  Second, when you ship. anything it develops statit charge in all of the dielectrics, cqbles, capacitors and even circuit board FR4.  It takes time for this to dissipate, days.  Thirdly, when you dont plqy speakers for even a few days the surrounds start to stiffen.  Temperature changes during shipping certainly aggrqvqte this.a

Steve N.
Empiricl Audio

[fsimms]

I too was amazed how many more rooms had great sound this year.  At the RMAF 2008 I only thought a handful of system sounded well but this year there were many.  Still it was great to come home to my own system.

Bob

[audioengr]

I tried it in 2010 at LSAF. That was the toughest thing I ever did. I thought it would be a cakewalk.  My great sounding home system that was very well broken in sounded like crap. Only after Seth of Virtue loaned me a battery powered modded version of my amp did it started sounding good. Many said I had the most natural sounding system at LSAF, but the sound never came close to what I have at home.

I was very much humbled by the experience and sure respect what the audio companies have to go through every show.

Very good point.  I am one of the lucky ones in that my room has dedicated power.  It is not shared with other rooms or other hotel facilities.  Most of the small rooms dont get this lucky.  In their case, they really need isolating conditioners like the B-P-T or battery power.  Even with our great power, we still used the conditioners and battery on the Mac and the DAC.

Steve N.

[Vulcan00]

Is there a reason PRICE is not mentioned in association with a room. I can relate to the pursuit of audio perfection. Realty is-  at what cost ?

[Big Red Machine]

I think I know what chester is referring to here. I have noticed over the last 10 years an increasing sensitivity in my equipment to being turned off for more than a couple hours. The sonic consequence of being powered down for more than a couple of hours max, is a grungy quality to the sound that persists for about 1.5 to 2 times the duration of the powered down cycle. This became particularly evident when all components were upgraded to Jensen 4 pole capacitors in their main power supply filter banks.
  Apparently the Jensen 4 pole caps unform enough when no voltage is applied to them that their high frequency impedance rises which subsequently raises the power supplies dynamic impedance. The circuits involved at this point are good enough to tell you when the power supplies dynamic impedance is not as low as it is when the caps are fully formed up.
 This is a small price to pay however, for the blacker background and more dynamic and vivid presentation you can get from using the Jensens in the power supply.
 I have illustrated an extreme situation that exists within the context of my system but the negative impact of the impedance rise in the power supply filter caps due to having no voltage on them is clearly audible in the case of a number of the more transparent circuit designs now available today.
 The solution to the problem is to transport them under powered up conditions by plugging them into an inverter in the vehicle.
Scotty

Agree.  I need at least one hour for my system to clean up but a whole day warmed up is wayyyyyy better.  For my GTG this weekend I will turn on the system Thursday night and let 'er run in repeat mode until Saturday.  It will be sweet.

[JerryM]

Thanks, Pez. Thanks, Tyson.

You guys kick ass. 

That's my RMAF 2011 Final Thought.

 

[Pez]

Haha I love you guys.