AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Cheap and Cheerful HiFi => Topic started by: ASCTLC on 25 Nov 2014, 04:37 pm
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Hi everyone, I've been lurking for quite some time preferring to keep my mouth shut and observe to absorb information and trends. Well I'm stumped and not moving myself forward. I have a very strong desire to experience a DAC and use my laptop's fill of ripped music instead of 1/cd at a time in a cheap player.
First off, let me tell you a little about my current set up. Van Alstine Insight+ EC preamp, Synergy 450 amp, and Legacy Signature SE speakers playing in a 7500cuft room (25x30x10). CDs played in a cheap blu-ray player at this time until I figure out what to do for this. CD files are ripped FLAC with easyaudiocopy and managed & played back using Foobar2000.
My musical taste is from classical to rock. The only genres I don't listen to are rap and opera. When I feel like really getting down, I'll increase the volume up quite a bit (concert level without al the distortion :rock: )
Second, as much as I'd love to maintain AVA components for this, the budget for the DAC is cheap by DAC standards, and I do mean cheap! Not to mention the lack of USB on the AVA DAC. $500 is pushing my limit pretty hard. So as I check out the well regarded cheapies, there are 2 that seem to stand out to me. The Bifrost with USB and the TubeDAC-11. Both are in/so close to my budget so these are what I'm leaning heavily towards.
We're talking a new DAC here. These are going on my Christmas list for the wife to source so used is not a consideration as there's no way she'd figure this stuff out and know a used unit worth the expense.
I see they're fairly different from one another but there's also a strong desire to try out a tube buffered sound. The TubeDAC-11 has some ability of letting me experience this at whatever point even if not perfect. Heck, I might not care for it but I still have the inputs I want and a DAC out capability to make use of my FLAC files.
I'm hoping what I've posted makes more sense to some of you than I think it even does me still. This and the PC SW still makes me scratch my head.
With that, I'm looking very forward to see what y'all come back with.
Thanks a million!
Andy
eta: Signature SE, not Series III speakers
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I have heard good things about Grant Fidelity but never heard the gear firsthand. I think they are made in China. Not saying that's bad.... I have the Bifrost Uber, so I am biased. It's very musical and the guys who made it and designed it have great digital pedigree. It's very musical and Schiit has made it a modular design, promising that when dac circuitry and design advances, they will update the boards. I started with a standard Bifrost and upgraded to an Unber board. Very nice upgrade at reasonable price.
There are many positive reviews of the Bifrost out there on the net. It does not reach the performance of say the Auralic Vega, but it's a fraction of the price and still very good.
Others can chime in on the Grant Fidelity DAC.
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I have 2 GF TubeDac 11's. One with a Bolder mod in my main system and a stock unit in my casual listening/HT rig. Very versatile units with USB provided.( along with a decent digital cable ) When I bought mine, Wayne ( Bolder) was still doing mods and his mod took the 11 to a new level. That said, the stock unit with a nice NOS 6DJ8 is quite pleasing. I'm sure you'd be pleased with the Bifrost as well, but the 11 gives you a lot of options as it's basically a line pre-amp to boot. If you decide on the 11, start shopping for a few NOS 6DJ8's or 6922's. The 11 only uses one, so it's fairly cheap to roll tubes.
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The Bifrost is a better DAC, but the TubeDAC-11 is more versatile: a preamp with tube out option. I own a TubeDAC-11 & really have enjoyed it the past few years. Single 6DJ8,6922,ECC88 tube allows for cheaper tube rolling adventures. I own a Schitt Lyr headamp (pr. 6DJ8 tubes) & it is great bang for the buck component, so I'm sure the Bifrost is as well. You can't go wrong either way.
Grant Fidelity has a forum on AudioKarma: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=164
Check out the tube rolling threads if you decide to go that route.
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The Bifrost is a great unit. Have no experience with the Grant dac.
This is just above your stated budget.. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MHDAC25.3 (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MHDAC25.3)
I have one. Very pleased with it. Once in awhile they sell demo units for just under $500.
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The IFI Micro DSD is a great buy for $500. It also has a great headphone amp. Once you get use to that 3D circuit on it, I doubt if you will ever not use it. It is not tube, but sure sounds like it.
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I have sympathy for the thought that the op asked for opinions on only two DACs and I've been chastised for going far afield from that thought. Adding a myriad of other suggestions muddies the waters and often makes selection more difficult. On the other hand, should we ignore other excellent candidates that the op might not have considered or known about, for example Tom's recommendation of the ifi product, I've heard it and liked it. So I conclude that the op has thrown his query upon the open sea of opinion and suggestion, therefore it's open season on recommending whatever you feel like and it's up to the op to wade through.
To that end I suggest the Audio gd lineup from China. If you don't mind buying off shore, they have an excellent reputation for delivery and decent service considering, and a bang for the buck that can't be beat with SOTA technology at bargain prices. Both the Grant and the Bifrost are getting a bit long in the tooth, I'd think a more cutting edge product would be in order.
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Your AVA preamp has dual mono channels, IIRC, and uses 12v tubes in the ouput. :scratch:
if thats the case you would already have volume control and tube rolling capabilities.
The bifrost might be a better fit. If your preamp has no tubes, then the Grant might be better.
(Or, I could be completely off track with what equipment you have, then just ignore my reply. )
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The IFI Micro DSD is a great buy for $500. It also has a great headphone amp. Once you get use to that 3D circuit on it, I doubt if you will ever not use it. It is not tube, but sure sounds like it.
+1
A review of Stereophile's 2014 recommended components reveals: Musical Fidelity V90-DAC for $299 (A+ rated); Halide Design DAC HD for $450 (A rated, USB/RCA cables built in to this tiny box); and several sub $300 B rated (like Schiit BiFrost). AC folks love bashing Stereophile, but it seems to be mostly sour grapes. In the fast moving DAC world it's smart not to spend too much.
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Thank you guys! I appreciate the responses.
What I was hoping to avoid a list of additional recommendations that might merely leave me with a large sublist of Netdewt's DACs under $450. I've gone through that and there's someone, somewhere, to already recommend each and every one of those products. So it's already is the "open sea of opinion and suggestion". Thus my hopeful attempt to reach land.
Even if you don't have a direct comparison of these 2 DACs, I'm finding your comments and suggestions very helpful!
Andy
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I have a V90 dac and can say it is as described in Stereophile . Very smooth sound with good sense of space without harshness. Quite a bargain for $300 in my view.
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I have a V90 dac and can say it is as described in Stereophile . Very smooth sound with good sense of space without harshness. Quite a bargain for $300 in my view.
Thanks for the input, I'm in the market.
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Opps, duplicate post.
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I'll throw in my two cents with regard to the audio mags like Stereophile and AS. I read them for entertainment and a few laughs. I think if one takes them seriously when choosing an audio component, one will be misguided. The shows are great, the brick and mortar stores are great....because one can listen to the gear before buying. Even the companies that offer a trial of their product....GREAT! Many people here can offer great advice on AC, but as long as you can mire through the hype and fanboys.
Many of the really good products don't profess too much, they go under the radar.
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I knew someone would slam professional reviewers, especially Stereophile.
Yes, you have to do a great deal of "reading between the lines" of professional reviews and they may be influenced by advertisers, but mostly to determine the reviewer's reference point (just like you would here at AC): What is their audio background? Does their taste in audio agree with yours? What's their room like? Do you know what the other equipment is being used? Do they have a bias or an axe to grind? Either way, a review from an unknown person is all but useless. But with the professionals, it took at least some degree of scrutiny to be published.
Shows, due to many limiting factors, can only reliably provide a veto of prospective gear. Bricks and mortar are rare in many areas with limited selection, advice can be highly suspect, many rooms are poor representations of your own room, and the ancillary gear not always familiar. In home trials make the most sense, but posting the question online is a good start. Attendance at audio clubs, if you can find a local one, can also be of value.
I don't believe Stereophile would have lasted as long as it has if it was terrible incompetent. I mentioned their recommendations as a reference. Surely their class A+, A, and B ratings should be reasonably "safe" for the topic of this thread.
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I do read pro reviews as part of my research. I also read user reviews.
Mostly I dabble in the used market, and bring in gear I think I might like, that I know I can flip for 80-100% of what I paid.
Currently in the house are 3 dacs - HRT Music Streamer II (been using for closing on 2 years), Dragonfly V1 (bought NIB last week, breaking in), and an NIB Squeezebox Touch (loan from my brother, a member here on AC). I have yet to put the Touch into play, still working with the Dragonfly to see if the ability to use it directly into a power amp will float my boat. The HRT cannot do that.
The HRT is a great DAC, and for $100 used, I doubt you can do better.
I have not tried any of the DAC that the OP asked about, but I did use the Maverick cousin of the TubeDAC years back. It was good, but not good enough for me to keep in my then dedicated headphone setup.
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I owned the Bifrost with the uber upgrade and when compared to the DAC in my Touch it made an audio difference to my ears. It seemed to bring the overall sound a little closer to my listening position. I have since moved to a iFi iDAC, but would have been more then happy to keep the Bifrost.
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The iFi Audio gear is great. There is a used one for sale right now on here too.
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I spent some hours reviewing the threads about the Grant piece and placed my order this AM.
I will pop for some russan tubes that those in the know rated really highly for the $, and get a little glass bottle magic back in my system.
First new piece of audio gear I have bought in getting on 20 years!
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Thanks for these responses.............................. .
While I doubt I'd be doing myself any sort of disservice with either DAC, I'm putting the Bifrost with Uber and USB2 on my Christmas list.
I have to admit I lean heavily to US made products in general. After all, my whole system is good ole USA. My experiences overwhelmingly weigh towards the best positive experiences with US made products, so it goes with this decision too. I'm just not a comfortable buyer and seller as many of you might be so basically I believe I'm playing my hand safe. :oops:
I'd still love to hear how the TubeDAC would sound in my system. Any offers in Colo Springs area? :wave: :D
Andy
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Thanks for these responses.............................. .
While I doubt I'd be doing myself any sort of disservice with either DAC, I'm putting the Bifrost with Uber and USB2 on my Christmas list.
I have to admit I lean heavily to US made products in general. After all, my whole system is good ole USA. My experiences overwhelmingly weigh towards the best positive experiences with US made products, so it goes with this decision too. I'm just not a comfortable buyer and seller as many of you might be so basically I believe I'm playing my hand safe. :oops:
I'd still love to hear how the TubeDAC would sound in my system. Any offers in Colo Springs area? :wave: :D
Andy
I would very surprised if you were not VERY PLEASED with the musicality of the Schiit Audio Bifrost Uber. These guys have been making DACs for awhile. Jason Stoddard was the engineering lead at Sumo . Mike Moffat was working with Theta and Theta digital. I was amazed how my Bifrost compared to the Benchmark DAC I bought years earlier.
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I use a GF DAC-11 in a secondary system as a DAC and preamp with a Class D Audio CDA-254 amp and Magnepan MMG's. The stock tube sucks. I rolled in a 1960 Telefunken 6DJ8 non A-Frame tube and it sounds a little more tubey with better air, transparency, deeper bass and a much wider sound stage. The A-frame version is a little more musical but it is more forward in presentation, a little too much for my taste. The Amprex 1960 non A-frame is similar to the Tele but has a little less detail.
Here is the non A frame Amprex (you want the one's from the Herlene factory)-
http://tctubes.com/Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-white-label.aspx
And here is what an A Frame looks like-
http://tctubes.com/Amperex-PQ-6DJ8-ECC88-A-frame-dimpled-disc-getter.aspx
If you are wanting razor sharp detail then the GF is a poor choice, you would be better off with a Sabre based DAC. But if you like a smoother non fatiguing sound, with good musicality then the GF with an upgraded tube is a good choice. Allow about 20 hours of break in.
I have compared it to my Van Alstine Ultra hybrid tube DAC which is getting long it the tooth. The AVA dac still beats it out by a huge margin but it cost $1500.
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I have a Genelex Gold Lion 6922 coming. I look forward to having fun with running in the GF piece, and being able to use just the tube stage too, to try on my Dragonfly and HRT Music Streamer II through it.
Should be fun.
The Schiit DAC has a great rep, I look forward to hearing what you think in your system. It is a solid choice for sure.
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IMHO
The difference between competently designed DACs ( cheap or otherwise ) is of the last 5-10% variety . I've heard a tubedac and compared it to my $50 cheapo hifimediy SABRE ES9023 USB DAC ( the one with an external power supply) and while the tubedac was better, the difference was minuscule . Likewise, the tube buffered mode in the tubedac was a bit more musical than the SS mode at the expense of a little bit of transparency. Nothing major .
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The Musical Paradise MP D1 Dac seems to get good reviews.
$480 plus $25 for the shipping.
Wall of Sound review:
http://www.wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/musical-paradise-mp-d1-dac-the-worlds-best-dac-under-1000/
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I find a very obvious difference between the HRT Music Streamer II and my Audioquest Dragonfly V1.
It was obvious with the HRT vs the Micromega Mydac too.
Looking forward to the TubeDAC-11 and trying the built in DAC vs the HRT (my reference).
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IMHO
The difference between competently designed DACs ( cheap or otherwise ) is of the last 5-10% variety . I've heard a tubedac and compared it to my $50 cheapo hifimediy SABRE ES9023 USB DAC ( the one with an external power supply) and while the tubedac was better, the difference was minuscule . Likewise, the tube buffered mode in the tubedac was a bit more musical than the SS mode at the expense of a little bit of transparency. Nothing major .
I agree. None of DAC's I've had over the past 12 years (Ack DAC, modded SB2, Red Wine, Eastern Electric - tube or solid state) have made much of a difference to my ears (but I'm a sworn "speaker guy"). I do believe that we each have different sensitivities to different aspects of sound.
But I'm willing to try again (trying to go direct USB from computer and current DAC, modded Behringer DEQ2496, doesn't have USB input). So I'm looking for quality/low price options, like Halide Design ($500 with both cables attached, Stereophile Class A rated) that allows for up to 7 meter cables (so I can use my new MacBook from the listening seat).
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I hope glare and edge are simply 2 different ways to express the same trait.
Basically due to the large room and the lack of treatment options I set my upper range -2db to cut a little glare. The glare is still there but attenuated enough to mitigate at normal listening levels. It doesn't take much to improve so I don't think I have far to go to mitigate this somehow.
Is the Bifrost Uber Analog known to smooth out a little glare/edge?
Thanks,
Andy
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I agree. None of DAC's I've had over the past 12 years (Ack DAC, modded SB2, Red Wine, Eastern Electric - tube or solid state) have made much of a difference to my ears (but I'm a sworn "speaker guy"). I do believe that we each have different sensitivities to different aspects of sound.
A few years ago I had in the house a very expensive top level Lampizator DAC on loan. No doubt it sounded much better and more three dimensional than my inexpensive Beresford. However that difference in sound quality practically vanished with a medical isolation transformer in front of the Beresford. It was really quite remarkable transformation. The MIT and Beresford cost a fraction of the Lampizator, but to compare them against the Lamp, you'd never think so. The obvious superiority of the Lamp was greatly, if not all but diminished by following some sage advice courtesy of "The Chair Guy".
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I hope glare and edge are simply 2 different ways to express the same trait.
Basically due to the large room and the lack of treatment options I set my upper range -2db to cut a little glare. The glare is still there but attenuated enough to mitigate at normal listening levels. It doesn't take much to improve so I don't think I have far to go to mitigate this somehow.
Is the Bifrost Uber Analog known to smooth out a little glare/edge?
Thanks,
Andy
I do not hear any glare or edge on the Bifrost Uber. I listen to Jazz and Instrumental music mostly. When I hear a sax, or percussion instruments they sound very natural. I think the many tones of a piano are hard to reproduce well. The Bifrost will do this as well as any $500 dac I have heard. Vocals are very smooth. Keep in mind I don't have speakers that are the "speakers for life" variety. Mine are Vandersteen 2Ce Sig IIs. I also do not have anything for room treatment. My source is either a Rega Apollo Cd player or a Pure I-20 dock with an Iphone 5S!! Also if you lika the coloration and warmth of tubes, a tube DAC might sound better. The Bifrost, to me, has a very neutral sound.
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I agree with the comments Geowak just posted .
My first DAC was the MF V-DAC w/ upgraded PSU that still works great in my exercise room
I've definitely been pleased with my Bifrost the last 2 years or so and just did the Uber Upgrade which was a worthwhile improvement.
I originally decided on getting the Bifrost after reading a lot of positive user reviews because
1.Made In The USA !
2. company has great customer service on this continent
3. has an excellent warranty
High Dollar value product that Stereophile should rate higher IMHO
I looked at 3 other DACS in my -$500 DAC budget and the Bifrost seemed the best bet for the buck and hasn't disappointed.
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I had a Cambridge Audio 840C and a Marantz SA8001 SACD player and both were beat out by my Van AlstineUltra plus Hybrid SS/tube DAC which is now getting a little long in the tooth. It still sounds great with a few op amp and tube upgrades. I have a Grant Fidelity DAC-11 and a Maverick Audio Tube Magic D-1 (with tube and OP amp upgrades) and both pale in comparison to the my Van Alstine DAC. The best DAC that I have heard in my system is the Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSDse. Dynamically and musically it was the best I have heard. It had great detail and resolution and explosive bass when paired with my Pass X250 amp and BAT VK-51se preamp with Magnepan QR1.6's. A friend of mine brought it over for a listen. A used Wyred is on my short list of next upgrades.
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That wired DAC2se is :drool: If I ordered the Wyred DAC-2se it'd be a long time before my broken fingers healed and I regained consciousness to be back posting on this forum :o
Thinking about my set up, I'm wondering just how bad my cheapie Blu-ray player is and if it is the source of the glare. Ok, I'll say it :oops: it's a Sony BDP-BX59 Am I correct to believe if I output the BDP via toslink to the DAC would bypass the internal processing of my music? And then the DAC output into one of my AVA Insight inputs, that I should expect improvement? I think I know this answer but my noobness has me questioning just what the heck I might know.
Have you experienced the Vision DAC Greyhound to know the differences between it and the FET Valve Hybred DAC? Maybe I should be considering a trade in of my fairly new Insight+ EC preamp for the Vision DAC/pre?
Hmmmm.... did I just complicate this Schiit/TubeDAC decision with the possibility of the AVA DAC???
After everything we've been through in the past year and a half and all the expenses we continue to face, a $1000 DAC just isn't a reality for me. I've got to find the best value possible that will still keep me/us satisfied for years to come in that ~$500 max range.
Sorry guys, I'm just all kinds of doubtful...
Andy
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I have heard the FET DAC. It has a nice sound but I can't hold a candle to the Wyred which can be had used for about $1500. I prefer my Ultra SL hybrid AVA DAC with the AVA mods and an NOS 1950's Raytheon black plate tube to the FET although the FET is smoother and warmer, but the SL sounded better in my system while the FET sounds better paired with the R amps and CF preamp in Franks system.
The Vision DAC has a nice sound but i did not get to hear it in my system like the FET. I would post the question on the AVA circle.
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I hope glare and edge are simply 2 different ways to express the same trait.
No, I would not say they are the same thing at all, in fact very different. Glare is centered in the upper midrange/ lower treble, around 5khz. Edge is much higher in frequency, 8-12khz, sometimes higher if from upper harmonics causing ripples in lower bandwidths, i.e. "digital sound". All of this is entirely subjective and predicated on the whim of the author, but the above has always been my impression. Glare makes trumpets, french horns, cellos sound unnatural. Edge makes violins and cymbals sound harsh. My 2 cents, YMMV.
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Take a look at Audiogon for a used DAC. There are several good DAC's in your price range- PS Audio Nuwave and Digilink, Bel Canto DAC-2, Schiit Gungnir, and a couple of Bench Mark DAC-1's.
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Thanks guys. Glare is what I have, just a touch. Violins and cymbals sound excellent - to me.
I thought about posting over on AVA Circle.
Andy
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I bought a new Gungnir. Yesterday. I had been using
A Bifrost. I never had an issue with it. Just wanted to
step up.
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I bought a new Gungnir. Yesterday. I had been using
A Bifrost. I never had an issue with it. Just wanted to
step up.
Please let us know how you like it.
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Ok Mark, you've had this thing long enough :lol: I'm itching to hear your impression!
My wife says I have to order my own DAC so my time frame just opened a little bit. Yea, as if I don't have a tough enough time with it, that certainly drags out my decision.
I hope it's ok to continue to ask questions to assist with my understanding. I'm searching best I can but sometimes I need additional help to understand some concepts.
Can one expect a tube based sound to improve the decay of instruments a little? Say some of the piano, violin, and even some guitar in the blues genre I listen to?
Thanks,
Andy
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Assume I am the Mark in question?
I have had it up and running 24/7 since last Tuesday AM and believe any break in is over (I don't care if you are on the side of "the person's ears break in" or "the unit breaks in" - after 100hrs or so, I tend to believe things have stabilized either way).
I have not yet tried the HRT or the Dragonfly through it. I am happy listening to music through the built in USB DAC and tube output. I never tried it with the stock tube, I immediately replaced it with a Genalex Gold Lion 6922 from Jim McShane.
My setup is less than hifi to most. I run an older Yamaha 2 channel receiver (the one immediately preceding the RS700, and if you review the specs you may draw the same conclusion I did - they redid this series to visually match the AS1000, but it does not have the exact same tech as the AS1000 or AS2000), a set of Totem Model 1 biwires (claimed to be 90% of the Signatures, it lacks the silver wire but is a match for all the other upgrades over the stock Model 1's), a hacked Pogoplug is my player (basically replaces a Logitech SB3).
My room is roughly 25x20x7.25 basement.
Playing acoustic music through the Grant piece is very nice. It brings a touch of midrange bloom to the party. It may mildly dull transients, but if you are in the market for tubes this may neither surprise nor concern you. I find it a very capable piece, but have some experimentation yet to come. The Grant piece cannot play 24/88.2 FLAC rips (I might have 20 albums like this, mostly jazz from the 60`s), but can play 24/192. I will have to use my NIB Touch to output 192 to see what that sounds like.
Sax has the requisite bite to it, but does not stray into being harsh or bright. I tend to have a little more volume available for Stormy Monday as an example. I used to turn it down when the piece comes on full, as I found the top end bright with my solid state DAC`s. With the Grant unit, I can leave it up (peaks of around 90db according to the free db meter app on my iPhone).
SO, to anser your question about how I feel about the $425 I spent on the DAC and tube - I am happy with it. It is a useful piece right out of the box, and can be used in different ways in the future - I will try the HRT through the tube outputs, but will report all that in the thread I started about the DAC.
I felt a little odd buying one now that it has been out for 3+ years, but am pleased with that I am hearing. I have never heard any Schiit unit for the record.
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Thanks Mark. Sorry if I didn't realize there was another Mark here.
Andy
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Can one expect a tube based sound to improve the decay of instruments a little? Say some of the piano, violin, and even some guitar in the blues genre I listen to?
Thanks,
Andy
Andy, thats a tough question. But in short yes it can but it also depends upon the tube you are using. Each has its strength's and weaknesses. I have owned several pieces of tube gear- an AVA Ultra Plus preamp and Ultra DAC, my BAT VK-51se preamp, GF DAC-11 and a Maverick Tube Magic DAC-1. I have extensively rolled tubes in each piece of gear except for the BAT and most have sounded very different and others not so much.
But keep in mind that amps, preamps and sources affect the sound just as much.
For the GF DAC I found that amprex and Telefunken tubes from the 1950's and very early 1960's sound the best. The non A frame Tele's have a warmer more tube like sound with a wide sound stage and good air. Bass is very good and high freq's are smooth and non fatiguing. The A frame tubes tended to be a bit more dynamic and musical but a little too forward sounding for my tastes. I use the GF as a DAC annd Preamp with a Class D Audio CDA-240 Kit amp and a pair of Magnepan MMG speakers. It sounds pretty good in this system.
I have tried the GF in my reference system (BAT preamp, Pass X250 amp, Magnepan 1.6 speakers, AVA Ultra plus DAC) as a DAC (not as a preamp)and it sounds OK but it is not up to the level of detail, resolution and dynamics of my AVA DAC by a long shot. My reference system is too revealing for the GF. IMHO the GF is good for a modest system and if you want to get a taste of tubes on a budget. It performs above its price point and is good if you want a preamp/dac combo. However, in the last year there are so many good DAC's in the $500-700 price range available. I am not sure how well the GF stacks up any more except for the fact it has a tube buffer.
By the way, you can drive yourself crazy tube rolling, always trying to find a better tube and sound, forgetting that they each have their strengths and weaknesses. That's part of the reason I am glad that I bought my BAT preamp. The tubes that it uses are pretty much all there is except for some rare NOS tubes that will cost about $600 for the 8 tubes that it uses.
I hope this helps,
Larry
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Do I dare even come here and say what I'm about to?? :oops:
I got the Gungnir. I raided my change jars to come up with a few hundred dollars more for this model DAC.
In pretty much blind testing (wife changing selector while I cannot see which input is selected) and I can hear a very distinct change. Both sound good mind you, but on one input it sounds like someone put a thin blanket over the speakers. It closes in the airiness/openness (soundstage?) of the music a little bit. Multiple testing with albums like Mellencamp and Dire Straits. I can consistently hear the change and she has confirmed the input I say muffles is always the same.
It's the Gungnir. It's like it gets in the way. :? My player is coax linked to the Gungnir and the Gungnir is Audio Quest cabled to one of my preamp inputs.
I have 15 days to get it back to Schiit but before I do I have a 3' Blue Jeans 1694 coming to try. If that doesn't do it...
Did I really over do too much of a good thing by adding another piece of equipment in chain with my AVA pre-amp, amp, Legacy Signature SE combination?? :scratch: Seriously, has anyone else experienced this where adding additional, well regarded, equipment inline actually was a detriment to sound quality???
I'll keep listening to see if any of the glare has improved at all. I'm guessing that would be the more relevant test than a simple A-B with noticeable change.
Andy
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Nothing wrong with reporting what you hear. I would only ask how long you burned it in before doing the single blind test. And only because what you report is what I hear in new, out of the box components.
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Give that Schiit some break in time and then compare them. But it does not surprise me in the least that the Grant might sound better. If you return the Schiit and still want a better DAC, consider a used Benchmark, Wyred 4 sound or PS Audio. Bear in mind that you will lose the benefit of the tube, although you could keep the GF in the chain as a tube buffer.
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Not burned in long at all Letitroll. I'm still running it to let it burn in and when I get the new blue jeans cable I should be ready for a better comparison.
I'm, of course hoping, I just have initial impression disappointment from it being too new, not settled in, and too cheap of cable.
Andy
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(http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr31/ASCTLC/its-alive_zpsblvlevqe.jpg) (http://s467.photobucket.com/user/ASCTLC/media/its-alive_zpsblvlevqe.jpg.html)
Well, a little burn in and a good cable made all the difference in the world. Running it all day as I paint walls and been leaving running all night long with input from the source but leaving the pre-amp powered off. So it's been burned in for a number of hours now. Will continue to do this for another week or so.
As soon as I tested again using one of my wife's Bonnie Raitt CDs, she immediately said "That sounds better! It sounds more detailed, open, and airy.".
I continue to be educated through this experience of burn in. The 2 route connections remain for testing, needing only a switching of the input selector (takes less 1/4 second to switch). Not scientific but the change in improvement is significant enough to be in your face obvious. There's definite proof through this A-B test the change that has occurred with the components, not just ears adjusting.
It's her money too so if she couldn't hear improvement, then there's no way it could be kept. :banana piano:
Andy
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If your Dac/Dacs have their own power supply, you can lift the 5v +/- lines in the USB cable for a major improvement in sound.
I did a little write up about it here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=131898.0
BTW: +1 on the Musical Fidelity V90-DAC
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113973)