AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Tube-o-phile Circle => Topic started by: drphoto on 22 Jul 2016, 02:19 am
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I just stumbled across a site where they sell supposedly exact clones of Dyna amps. I love the ST-70. First decent amp I ever heard and started the love affair. I eventually owned a pair. (of course, they don't REALLY work as bridged mono blocks, like you'd think from that switch!)
Anyone know of these guys? dynakitparts.com. sorry if old news, I've been away from here and home audio for, six years or so.
Also considering a Transcendent OTL kit. No output trannies seems interesting.
Have Merlin TSM-MMe's at this point so need reasonable power. Can't do the any 'flea' amps. :)
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I wonder if the transformers are as good as those David Hafler designed for the original Dynacos. Apparently they were key to the sonic quality of the stereo ST-35 and ST-70.
I see that the ST-70 is in most of the Absolute Sound staff writers' lists of the top ten amps of all time:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-ten-most-significant-amplifiers-of-all-time/
I also see there is a new Hafler pro amp due this summer:
http://www.hafler.com/poweramps.php
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An EE buddy of mine back in the day built a couple of the big ass Hafler SS power amps. Awesome. We even tried to use one to power the high mid cabs on our club bands PA. sounded great, but of course they were not designed for that sort of abuse and would over heat and shut down. :(
Can't beat Crown for PA amps! (but, then again.....they sorta blow for home use.) 8)
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Now if Acoustat would come back. :thumb:
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guy at dyna parts place says trannies are exact replicas of original. I know that's why people love Dyna, 'cause of the iron. :thumb:
(sure wasn't for the sexy design!!
If I had only known, I would have salvaged the parts from my pair. One had a short and burned, so I tossed. (dunno why....long time ago) Other I had in my research lab in grad school. I just left it there when I finished.
sigh....... :roll:
BTW: I originally picked up both in 2nd hand shops when on road with a band in during college years for $25 ea!! Geez, those were the days before the 'net when the average person had no idea of the value of stuff
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I'd take a serious look at the tubes4hifi site. I've had a Latino ST 70 for years and it been an excellent amp to say the least. Rock solid reliability and punches WAY above its class sonically.
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Hi DRPhoto, I just got some parts for a pair of Mark 3's from DynakitParts.com. They are great! and might be the fastest shippers I ever remember. I saw the new Dynas, maybe not the kits. They look kind of Prima Luma like and have about the same price tag.
The old Dyna's vs. the new ones, not the kits remind me of the Ford Mustang 1965 vs. the 2016 model. Both still way in the game...Mark korda
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Mark, if your comparison holds, then I'm all in. I'm sorta a car nut. I've never owned a Mustang, but I follow the car news and the shows and stuff and the new one is miles better than the old.
Classic stuff has it's place and charm, but time has moved on.
YES. Digital audio sucked for a long time. It was NOT 'perfect sound forever' as the ads promised. But they've figured it it out. At least for HIGH RES.
Mp3 still blows.
So, if I can get what I like from the old Dyna, and I dunno....let's say tighten up the bass a bit. That would be fantastic. The old girl was maybe just a little too romantic.....a little syrupy. (is that a word?)
Still...it was the Dyna ST70 and the PAT-3 (?) that opened my ears to real audio. Along with Chartwell (the famous BBC mini monitor) & a Linn LP12 table.
I never realized what soundstage meant before. A life changing moment. (well even if a small part of ones life all and all)
I mean seriously, before that all I ever heard were Pioneer receivers and JBL 100 (Century) speaks.....and those were the good systems! At least where I lived.
(actually, those old 70's receivers were not half bad. I loved the look of the Marantz units)
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Classic stuff has it's place and charm, but time has moved on.
I mean seriously, before that all I ever heard were Pioneer receivers and JBL 100 (Century) speaks.....and those were the good systems! At least where I lived.
(actually, those old 70's receivers were not half bad. I loved the look of the Marantz units)
Funny you should mention 70's Pioneers. I just in the last two days discovered some discussion about how extremely good certain receivers were from that particular era, before the manufacturers discovered that there was much more money to be made if the bling component was emphasized over substance. Singled out were the Pioneer SX-1250 for sound (at 160 watts per channel into 8Ω and weighing 60 lb) and the SX-1980 (at 270 watts per channel and weighing 78 lb) for almost as good sound but monster power. These still sell for $1200 - $2000 and it's not because they're pretty.
I've made a change myself in my studio monitoring set up and I'm going deeply high-end retro.
A lot of this stuff is not just conditionally 'good for its time', but flat out excellent, period, by any standards.
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Russell, that's cool. Yeah, I'm no EE. I have a basic knowledge of electronics. Good circuit design may be a bit tough, but it's well understood. It seems like all it takes is committing to using quality components and then to have a solid power supply, and then the rest will follow. At least on power amps.
Sounds like those amps were massive because they had the required PS for the output.
Unfortunately the marketing/accounting guys step in and quality goes to hell in order to meet price point.
Most people shop by price, or by what their friends own.....just way of the world.
I try to shop local, or from small dealers, even if it cost a bit more. But it always pays off when I get stuff I need at last minute for some hot project because they value my business. I buy photo gear from MPEX in Columbus OH now. I had a shoot it their area and one of us forgot the video tripod. They stayed stayed open late to help me because they knew me from my online orders.
sorry to ramble.......
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Hi DRPhoto, All the names you mentioned I grew up with and love, I'm 59.
I love the Dyna tube stuff but you may have mis-understood my car analogy. I think there are 2 kinds of Hi-fi nuts. 1. The person who can afford the best. Ferrari, Merecedes, or a brand new Mustang. Their stereo gear comes right out of Absolute Sound and Stereophile. 2. The person who can't afford the best, someone who could find an old classic, Mustang say, and with restoration and know how make it just as cool as the most pricey toys. That person would rather own and hot rod a Dyna or Heathkit than own a 40.000 dollar Lamm preamp.
By the way, now your back in the game, Frank Van AlStine won a best of award from Absolute Sound for his mod on the Stereo 70. He calls it the Ultravalve. It's a whole new amp that looks like a ST-70 and Frank called it the grandchild of the Dyna-ST-70. It was noted for it's deep powerful bass, no syrup.
Dr, thanks for the nice note.....Mark Korda
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Ok gotcha Mark, & totally agree. I think we've become too much of a throw it away society. Yeah, I guess the constant need for the new and the next drives purchasing and hence spending and keeps the wheels of the economy going. I mean, I do commercial photography. I depend on clients who need to sell products. And on good days, I do the ads, rest of time, I just take nice shots of whatever crap they're selling today.
But I saw this cool documentary about the car culture in Cuba. You know where all the cars are from the 50's because of the embargo? Wow, what these guys can pull off with stuff they scrounge, make by hand, smuggle in, you name it. They've got a beauty 57 chevy Bel Air, but it might have a Hyundai diesel or motor ripped off a Slovakian electric generator under the hood. These guys are just geniuses in their own way.
I used to watch a show about a guy who runs a company called Super Muscle Car (I think). He would take your '66 'Stang, and not only weld in the needed tin to fix the body, but then put in totally modern running gear. Disc brakes, light weight control arms, cool rims with performance rubber and of course honkin motors.
Hey guys, sorry to go off topic. I'm just a bit wired. We're in the middle of trauma season at hospital, and while stressful you start to live on adrenaline. and hell I'm just doing clinical pharmacy, I'm not a frontline provider. Those people are saints!!!! (Yes I'm a photographer, but took a leave from that to help out in at hospital where I used to work.....long story. Wear many hats.)
Oh & Dyna rules....see? back on thread. :lol:
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I recently completed assembly of a pair of Mk 3's from tubes4hifi.
They sound very good and drive my Focals with ease.
I would recommend these or anything Bob Latino offers.
I second!
I have a pair of Bob Latino's m125 mono-blocks that drive my B&W803diamonds...
In a word "Sublime"
Well built, made, designed and manufactured in the U.S.
It does not get better than that!
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The David Hafler company helped destroy Acoustat in the early 80's. If you want a retro piece that still beats 98% of the amp-speakers built today, here is a pair of the X's in Santa Barbara for $1500 and new tubes.
https://santabarbara.craigslist.org/ele/5669164062.html
These are very revealing and lightening fast. I wish I lived close.
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The David Hafler company helped destroy Acoustat in the early 80's.
Dead link. But destroyed Acoustat how? I remember hearing they bought Acoustat back in the day. On paper at least, sounds like a good 'fit'.
Now a new entity is trying to capitalize off whatever recognition is still left in the Dynaco and Hafler names. Wonder if they'll rip off Van Alstine's designs the way Panor openly admitted doing.
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Dead link. But destroyed Acoustat how? I remember hearing they bought Acoustat back in the day. On paper at least, sounds like a good 'fit'.
Now a new entity is trying to capitalize off whatever recognition is still left in the Dynaco and Hafler names. Wonder if they'll rip off Van Alstine's designs the way Panor openly admitted doing.
I think the link has been fixed.
Acoustat was a true high end company when they brought out the X's and Monitors driven by these DD tube amps. Reliability problems made them switch to the medallion transformers. The transformers made the speakers sound broken. But by 1982! Roy Espisito was doing mods on the amps to make them reliable. I sent a pair of amps to him and for 300 dollars total, he made those amps sound much better and very reliable.
That pair I sold because I had to move from Iowa to Mo. The owner found me on Facebook last year complaining about a broken amp. I sent him Roy's phone number and his amp is back and running. Not too bad, 23 years of service without any problem.
Back in the early 80's, FVA said these Acoustats made all other ESL's sound broken, and he is right. That link above has the X's for $1500, and the SQ will compete with 400K systems today.
At one time there was hope that Acoustat would revyise these speakers again, but when Hafler bought them out, fat chance on that. Acoustat quickly went further into mid-Fi.
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Overall, Pioneer's SX-1050 outperformed the larger/more powerful SX-1250. 1050 was more refined, nuanced, and transparent, while the 1250 made more power.
The "Concept" receiver (IIRC model is 1.1 or 1.0, sold by Pacific Stereo, digital tuner, made/designed by Mitsubishi, vintage a couple years latter than the 1050) is among the best sounding mass produced amps, and a superb performer, period. Shockingly good performance. Almost the power of the 1250 and more refined than even the 1050. Estimate resale <$100. They are a solid tank, huge transformer, estimate 35+ lbs.
I built the 11W OTL Transcendent and would not recommend same. Mediocre audio performance, instructions were pretty horrible, plus a failed tube out of the box. The designer is OK for support, not what I'd call great, awful attitude, and the chassis is pretty awful for rigidity. It's kind of a DIY toy IMO. To say it competes with Atma Sphere is a just plain wrong from every viewpoint, not on the same field.
I'd love to hear the latest Dyna amps.
The current Electra Fidelity 11W EL34 is a great amp, about $5k now IIRC.
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I built a Dynakitparts.com ST-35 a few years back--with upgraded RCA jacks, speaker terminals, and the fixed bias mod (highly recommended! allows individual bias adjustment for each output tube.) Whether or not you like the bass depends on the specific speaker you use. I have the ST-35 in my jazz system with Fostex F120A drivers in Metronomes that I built. (Metronome= mass loaded quadratic taper transmission lines) When I tried the ST-35 with the transmission lines I designed for Fostex FF225wk, the bass wasn't nearly as good as it is with the Pass Amp Camp Amps (class A mono blocks). I think it's way more complicated than the output impedance/damping factor issue...
Note that the ST-35 was designed for 7189 tubes. The JJ EL84 I first installed were crap; two of the bottles cracked on insertion, then one of the tubes failed catastrophically, damaging the amp. Most EL84 tubes don't seem to be up to the task of replacing 7189 tubes. Now I use NOS Russian military 6P14P-EB (or is it EV? can't remember) which I purchased from Jim McShane (my favorite source now). The 6P14P are now scarce, but McShane says the current production EL84M which he sells are good.
Cheers, Jim
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This reminds me, I have a boxed CARY SLA70 in a storage closet that I haven't listened to in years. I think I'll take it out for a spin.
And if memory serves, wasn't the SLA70 based on the Dynaco ST70? Does anyone know?
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James R. thanks for heads up on Transcendent. Hate to make expensive mistake. I had a Conrad-Johnson MV-45 at one point and it seemed very similar to a Dyna ST-70 except a lot nicer cosmetically. Paired with a s little CJ pre and Thiel 0.5 (back when Thiel still used decent soft dome tweeters) it was just a lovely little rig.
Oh, BTW, I love Pass Labs stuff.
When I switched from the little system described above to Maggies I got the big Adcom GFA-555s, a Pass design. Had a pair & ran em mono. Pretty good for a fairly cheap amp
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Man, a guy on a-gon has a CJ premier 11 for sale. I hope it sticks around a bit until I have a little disposable cash. One of most musical amps ever IMHO.
Yeah, I know thread was about Dyna, but I guess I can derail my own....right? :lol:
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Where are the links to the websites that sell "new Dynaco kits"?
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Where are the links to the websites that sell "new Dynaco kits"?
As noted above, here's one: http://www.tubes4hifi.com/bob.htm#ST70 (http://www.tubes4hifi.com/bob.htm#ST70) :thumb:
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Yeah, those look good. Doubt if that CJ will stick around. I think I may go with the Lapino version of the Dyna if I pull trigger on this. Seems like people really like his stuff.
But the one I stumbled across that started this thread is dynakitsparts.com
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Hey Wayner, have you heard the AVA Ultravalve 70? Isn't it a Dyna clone?
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read about it here:
http://avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=250&Itemid=235
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yeah, I already saw that, but thanks. Is a good looking amp. Doesn't have those goofy preamp ports in front like the real Dyna clones.
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Man, a guy on a-gon has a CJ premier 11 for sale. I hope it sticks around a bit until I have a little disposable cash. One of most musical amps ever IMHO.
Yeah, I know thread was about Dyna, but I guess I can derail my own....right? :lol:
cJ Premier II for 1750.
I use searchtempest a lot to find good deals on audio gear.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ele/5640728081.html
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thanks ozark. Yeah, the thread started on Dyna. But I loved that little CJ combo. I used to lust over a Premier series. Be cool to snag one.
In the old days when tubes ruled I always thought the big players were CJ & Audio Research. I always felt like the AR stuff was a little too clinical sounding and the CJ more musical. But of course that just one opinion, like a million others on the net.
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Here is my thoughts on CJ and classic Dynaco. In the early 80's, I was an Acoustat and CJ dealer. I loved CJ's preamps and sold quite a few. CJ amps then, MV 45a and MV 75A were very mediocre. Stock dyna st-70 was just as good, but a FVA 70 easily beat out the CJ's. This was while driving Acoustat speakers. But when you used the dd servo amps by Acoustat, that made all other combos sound like a joke.
I did get the same results on the amps when I hooked up Spendor, KEF, and B&W speakers.
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Isn't it a Dyna clone?
The only Dyna clone I know that is still being sold is the one at dynakitparts with the original 7199 tube input board.
I guess one can argue that the AVA Ultravalve, tubes4hifi VTA70 and the Triode Electronics with the SDS 6AU6 board are Dyna clones but in reality all these have different driver boards and power supplies. Really the only thing these amps have in common are general chassis layout and output iron.
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Hey Wayner, have you heard the AVA Ultravalve 70? Isn't it a Dyna clone?
I have 2 Ultravalves, 1 which is the original proto-type. The one in my studio is paired with a pair of Focal 706V speakers. Frank's amps have evolved so far from the original ST70, that the only thing that makes people think of the ST70 when viewing the Ultravavle is from its styling.
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Our friend, Kevin has a company that is called Dynakit. He also has sev
eral amps in his catalog. He also makes the sheet metal for the Ultravalve.
http://www.dynakitparts.com/?gclid=CKj12KK-jM4CFQguaQod3jIGug
Wayner
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Ozark. yeah, I'm sure there are much better tube power amps out there, but I quite liked my little MV45. That system certainly had it's limits, it couldn't play loudly, but it had a nice natural sound and a good soundstage. (although within the width of speakers.....not beyond like the best) I also liked the looks of the amp. Very classic. However I did get to briefly hear a Premier 11 once and thought it was pretty special. Speaks may have been big ProAcs, but I'm not sure after all these years. (btw: I love the ProAc 2.5. one of my all time favorites, but just ridiculously overpriced)
A buddy of mine had a big ass audio research unit. again, I thought it was just a little too clinical sounding and I didn't care for the industrial look with the rack mount ears and the grab handles in front.
But then again, that stuff is now what? 30+ years old?
At this point, if I jump back into the audio pond, I may go with the Ultravalve or one of the Latino kits. I've got a buddy, who's the only local guy I know into hifi that is egging me on to build a kit amp. It could be good fun. I'm pretty good with a soldering iron.
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Another option to consider, based on the ST-70, is offered by Kevin Carter of K&K Audio
(http://www.kandkaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/stereo70.2013.2.png)
He has various levels of mods ranging from just a replacement for the input tube board to a completely new amp with Lundahl output transformers running KT-120 output tubes.
http://www.kandkaudio.com/power-amplifier/ (http://www.kandkaudio.com/power-amplifier/)
Scroll down the page to get to the Stereo 70 offerings.
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damnit wayne, now you just have to go and confuse me even more! No seriously I appreciate it! :thumb: