AudioCircle
Industry Circles => ModWright Instruments (MWI) => Topic started by: kngale1 on 21 Feb 2014, 03:16 pm
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Dan,
Will you be offering a mod to the new Sony HAP-Z1ES High Res Player?
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Also curious as well
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Me too..
Expect Mr.Dan will give us good news soon !!
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Hi guys and sorry for the tardy reply!
I have been watching this unit with GREAT interest! I have also had the opportunity to hear it and see the insides and I agree that it IS ripe for modifying!
Can I get an idea about the level of interest in this player? As many of you know, I choose the products that we mod carefully and we only offer mods for a few specific products each year.
I will say this about it:
It fills the gap for a computer-only, DSD capable player. For those reading this that don't know exactly what the Sony HAP-Z1ES is... It does not have a digital input or output. It does not read CD's. It requires a computer to download music from and comes with a 1TB drive internal drive. It does have USB and ethernet connectivity as well as WiFi. It also uses a form of digital engine to decode ALL music at DSD 2 resolution. So, it offers different functionality than the products that we currently modify: Sony XA-5400ES, Oppo 95, Oppo 105 and Oppo 105 Darbee edition.
Thanks and PLEASE do post your thoughts!
Sincerely,
Dan W.
President, ModWright Instruments Inc.
360.247.6688
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Dan,
Here's a Red Wine Audio link that gives you a level of interest for a mod.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=124280.msg1310316#msg1310316 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=124280.msg1310316#msg1310316)
To me beauty of the HAP-Z1ES is once data loaded to HD and connected to the network, you don't need a computer or transport for it to work. It's like a jukebox where you can control it with an App. It simplifies your system and save $$ on peripherals.
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Vinnie's assessment of the stock unit is right on. I agree that it is a very well designed stock unit.
My listening experience is similar. It is good, but not as good as our own DAC or other modified pieces.
As usual, it is the analog stage that is lacking, IMHO.
I like the use of PCM1795 DACs as I like the Burr Brown DAC sound.
I plan to continue to investigate the unit and look forward to feedback here, so that I can gain interest level in the product.
Sincerely,
Dan W.
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Im surprised no one has posted interest yet. Well, it has only been a day and a half or something but...
Maybe its the lack of ability to be used with a DAC.
Apart from it shortcomings in versatility, I believe once it gets a chance to get out there a bit more, people will become much more interested... I think this unit (modded or not) will bring many experienced AND inexperienced audiophiles to "computer" audio. Judging by the multitude of repeating questions in each thread on the HAP-Z1ES around on different forums, there is still a lot of confusion OR just a lot of newcomers interested. But I do see that as a good sign for its future and believe the interest will only grow.
Personally, I am very interested in a ModWright modded unit. I would use it as source in my future headphone rig.
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It is interesting. I am VERY impressed with the unit personally. The flexibility that it gives from a single-computer-audio-DAC source is phenomenal! I think Sony really hit it out of the park!
I will be pursuing it and we shall see what happens.
Thanks,
Dan
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Dan,
I am a new member of AudioCircle, but I have followed the ModWright Circle for a number of years. I am a long time, satisfied owner of a ModWright Sony5400 and am eagerly awaiting arrival of a new PS 9.9 power supply, which you shipped out yesterday. I did want to add my voice to those expressing interest in your proposed modification of the HAP-Z1.
A few questions and comments. Have you thought about including a modification that would permit use of the HAPZ1 with a transport? I know you developed a digital in option for the 5400, and as I recall that was not a trivial task, but I think that this sort of functionality would substantially increase the market uptake on your proposed modification of the HAPZ1.
Please be patient with me if I expose my ignorance here, but my initial interest runs along the following lines. I'm convinced that DSD presents a substantially more musical, analog if you will, reproduction. I am seriously intrigued by the ability of the HAPZ1 to convert PCM to DSD, but I am currently not invested in an even rudimentary computer audio system.
The Hi Rez download market is still immature, somewhat akin to the early days of CD. There is currently not a lot of software out there, and what there is is pretty pricey. Many of us already have substantial silver disc libraries, and won't be going all in on a complete Hi Rez overhaul even when the market matures. From where I am currently, it would take a substantial upfront investment in time and money to commit my existing a library of a couple thousand disks or more to computer audio, which could then be downloaded to the HAPZ1. Functionality that would permit interfacing the HAPZ1 with a transport would substantially reduce this upfront investment in time and money.
Your comments?
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Dan
Any further thoughts on the Sony?
Mark
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It seems good, but DSD on a chip is oh so last century. I have heard DSD with a good LPF and its way better.
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It seems good, but DSD on a chip is oh so last century. I have heard DSD with a good LPF and its way better.
Similar product and about same price range? A "single-computer-audio-DAC source"?
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Hi guys, first of all, adding a digital out is really not feasible in this case. The signal is really only accessible via I2S or DSD format, from the processor section itself, feeding the DACs. Not willing to tackle this for a number of reasons.
It IS a computer-only system and as such, will not be for everyone. It is NOT however, a Hi-Rez only player. It will accept ALL formats, up to and including DSD2 and will also convert normal-rez files to DSD rez before decoding. You can toggle the DSD engine off/on, ON THE FLY, via smartphone or tablet app and the difference is NOT subtle to my ears!
Yes, it does require transferring your CD's to a computer. This IS a trend that is hard not to notice. If you don't want to go that route, then a CDP is still the option for you. However, if you are willing to take that step, and start transferring your favorite CD's at least, over to a computer format, the convenience AND sound are phenomenal with this piece!
The design option that I am considering would not involve complex analog filters AT ALL! I would also NOT call this DSD on a chip. I expect that the reference is to new technologies that have been advertised lately. I have not heard this new tech in its current form and as such, cannot comment.
I am envisioning a clean and pure sounding analog stage, using inductive coupling and loading, much as in our Elyse DAC, with PHENOMENAL resolution!
Thanks,
Dan W.
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Very interested if this can be upgraded from "high end" to "exceptionally good high end". Vinnie has already offered a "level one" mod for sale on his site.
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Exceptionally Good High End is what I am looking at!
I will see what Vinnie is offering.
Thanks,
Dan
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Dan, Thanks for answering my question. Permit me a couple followups. OK, so I will need to copy my Cd's to my computer prior to transferring the files to the HAPZ1. That in itself is not necessarily a show stopper.
1. Do you expect the sound quality of the HAPZ1 output will be independent of the file type transferred, eg, will apple lossless and FLAC be essentially indistinguishable?
2. Will playback be gapless? This is essential for classical music, so absence of gapless playback is a nonstarter.
Thanks, I really do have an interest in this piece, but I have to be realistic in terms of additional time and money investment beyond the HAPZ1 and upgrade.
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Hi, first of all, I have been listening to music files ranging from native DSD, to ripped DSD, 16.44.1 FLAC, WAV and AIFF files.
I have also toggled between DSD engine and non, and found that I preferred the DSD engine on in all cases.
In short, EVERY format is OUTSTANDING when played through the Sony. All formats are converted to DSD resolution before decoding (if DSD engine is on) and THIS feature IS outstanding!
Now, as to gapless for Classical, I will have to look at this. Most products such as this allow for this and a number of other custom ways to transfer from track to track.
I will verify.
Thanks,
Dan
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Dan, Thanks for answering my question. Permit me a couple followups. OK, so I will need to copy my Cd's to my computer prior to transferring the files to the HAPZ1. That in itself is not necessarily a show stopper.
1. Do you expect the sound quality of the HAPZ1 output will be independent of the file type transferred, eg, will apple lossless and FLAC be essentially indistinguishable?
2. Will playback be gapless? This is essential for classical music, so absence of gapless playback is a nonstarter.
Thanks, I really do have an interest in this piece, but I have to be realistic in terms of additional time and money investment beyond the HAPZ1 and upgrade.
the gapless playback feature can be turned to auto - or it can be turned off - you decide
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Thanks for that. I just found this out on the app today myself. I was going to post and you did it for me!
Take care,
Dan
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Hi, first of all, I have been listening to music files ranging from native DSD, to ripped DSD, 16.44.1 FLAC, WAV and AIFF files.
I have also toggled between DSD engine and non, and found that I preferred the DSD engine on in all cases.
In short, EVERY format is OUTSTANDING when played through the Sony. All formats are converted to DSD resolution before decoding (if DSD engine is on) and THIS feature IS outstanding!
Now, as to gapless for Classical, I will have to look at this. Most products such as this allow for this and a number of other custom ways to transfer from track to track.
I will verify.
Thanks,
Dan
Dan - I totally agree about the DSD Remastering engine. At times I have to double check whether or not I'm listening to the FLAC version or the DSD version of an album. But if I turn it off the difference in sound quality is readily apparent. I've been leaving it on pretty much all the time now.
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It is pretty amazing.
I have to admit though, that when I listen to the HAP-Z1ES here, it is NOT exactly stock! 8)
Thanks,
Dan
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It is pretty amazing.
I have to admit though, that when I listen to the HAP-Z1ES here, it is NOT exactly stock! 8)
Thanks,
Dan
I think the feature of this "Digital File Player" that has piqued my interest the most is the "DSD Remastering"
engine. I really don't have any complaints about the DFP that I currently use (Auraliti PK100 >Metrum Hex NOS DAC) . It really makes Redbook digital perform way above any expectation I may have had for it. I did'nt
particularly care for Hi Rez PCM downloads, it seemed that there was a characteristic upper frequency response I just could'nt get beyond. I did'nt have the Hex DAC that long when I gave up on Hi Rez downloads.
In the meantime this DAC has continued to "bloom". I still prefer the response of DSD. Supposedly my DFP
will play DSD , but the Hex will not ((& the Hex wiped the floor of my stock Oppo 95 playing the CD rips of the
same SACDs played back through the Oppo; the Oppo is now my dedicated Blu Ray player)
So ,now with this Sony player I will have the ability to listen to my rips (which I honestly feel are very "respectable" to "exceptional" dependent on the source material) in a "closer" to DSD representation.
What's not to like about that. I listen to acoustic music of one type or another almost exclusively. PCM
has come a long way,but it still needs a "re-design" to do some things better. DSD is a better fit for
longtime Analog listeners.
So it looks like my Metrum Hex (& a few other items) will be going. I think PCM needs a NOS DAC to sound it's
best. There may be other factors at work though at getting closer to the sound of analog (which DSD does better). I really don't "kowtow" to "native" rate PCM files regardless of any rate. Some rates give some improvements, but as David Robinson says "It's still PCM"
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When I listen and toggle the DSD engine on and off, unlike PCM 'upsampling' that I have heard in the past (I am not a fan!), there is no 'fake' HF emphasis. Rather, if anything, there is a fuller body or richness, combined with a broader soundstage. There is simply MORE information there!
Dan W.
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Not sure if this has been mentioned:
The lower priced unit does the same DSD upgrading just without balanced connections for $1000 less. Could the lower priced unit include bal connections with tube end mod and same money or improve?
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Interesting. Are you sure that the lesser cost unit is really the same throughout, except for XLR connectors? Adding balanced connectors is not a problem, but what about the DACs, internal supply and other differences?
Thanks,
Dan
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Go to this page to see differences: http://store.sony.com/hi-res-audio/cat-27-catid-All-Res-Audio. As you can see there are a few.
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a more direct route for comparison: http://store.sony.com/gsi/webstore/WFS/SNYNA-SNYUS-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductCompareService-Show?CategoryID=HjkKmUBwTaAAAAFAZF9dkPYe
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With the amp section in it, you might not have as much room for mods.
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Pretty pos the s1 does not do the DSD up sampling thing.
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Hey pardon my misinformation!!!!
The information I was looking at last night was not correct or maybe it was not current. Oh I remember now it was review from Audioholics ( I think), the statement was made after pointing out about not having balance was this was probably the first time person would payless for just as good features ( or something like that). Anyway sorry for confusion.
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The s1 is not at all the same unit. Much larger HW feature set for much less money, and the construction and parts are clearly not intended to give high end sound like the z1.
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I think some people may be confusing the Digital Sound enhancement engine (DSEE) with the DSD Remastering engine.
2 totally different processes. The DSEE was designed to add some "noise shaping" to compressed music files
to help them sound a bit fuller. The word "enhancement" should tip you off to this. If this is left on for uncompressed lossless file processing it will probably make the upper frequencies sound a little "grainy", ideally Sony should have implemented an automatic turn off switch for the DSEE when it attempts to process an uncompressed lossless file.
I'm curious now, does Sony make any references to the differences of these engines in their help guides
any. If Sony has any weaknesses regarding these players it might be they are too busy listing all the
features more prominently than making sure users are more aware of the importance of the various setup
& operating information. If you have been setting up equipment for any amt. of time, you can just
"Wing it" & set it up. There is no way that modus operandi is going to work here. Sony does'nt want to
scare people away by stressing the importance of their setup procedures.
"What, there are special steps I gotta follow." Sony's more interested in selling as much as they can, than with
how much is returned. Great product,lousy Company philosophy. I just have to get one before they dumb it down for the next generation of players
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I have only really experimented with the DSD engine feature. I have the DSEE function set to Auto right now I believe. I will turn it off and re-evaluate.
I agree, the FIRST of a new generation of Tech from Sony is GREAT. After that, subsequent models CAN be cheapened. THAT is why THIS is such a great machine!
Dan W.
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The lower priced one weighs 12.5 pounds with a cooling fan and the Z1 weighs 31 pounds with no fan. Also the cheaper one is 3.5 inches tall amd about 10.5 inches wide. That is quite a bit difference compared to the Z1.
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We will only be focusing on the HAP-Z1ES for now.
I currently have a unit running in our showroom with full tube analog stage: Lundahl transformer coupled in and out (similar analog circuitry to that developed for ELYSE DAC), external supply (still deciding on supply type). Digital/DAC supplies all have upgraded capacitors.
Stock analog stage and ALL op-amps are replaced with our choke/transformer inductive-coupled design, featuring a new passive I-V stage and fully balanced circuitry. XLR and RCA outs both feed tube stage.
Results:
Fast, clean, organic, extended, RESOLVING and musical sound. Visceral bass and extended highs with clean and sweet midrange. Dead quiet noise floor and exceptionally low output impedance.
I am excited about this product as a solution to Ultra High End computer music playback, including DSD level playback for ALL recordings, thanks to the DSD engine which converts even 16/44.1 music to DSD resolution.
Design being finalized in the next week. I have been quietly working on this since last Nov.
Tube complement: (2) 6922 driver. (1) 5AR4, 5U4GB, 5V4GB, 5R4GYS and equivalents for rectifier. I do not expect to use tube regulation in this design.
This design, as well as the ELYSE DAC and PH 150 Ref. Phono all share in common, a new design direction that I have been exploring for some time, making extensive use of transformers and inductive coupling. All circuits are ENTIRELY tube based, with the exception of SS voltage regulation. They all also include use of the 6922 tube that I have found ideal for use in these circuits.
Please contact us if you are interested in having a HAP-Z1ES modified or have questions.
Thanks,
Dan Wright
President, ModWright Instruments
360.247.6688
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Dan, thanks for the info!
Any photos, more technical details (eventually) and modification prices will be much appreciated too.
I personally might be interested in custom volume pot installed in the player to drive directly two pairs of mono blocks in bi-amp mode, if possible?
Thank you!
Ivo
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Pricing is as follows:
Full tube mod as described with external supply and 'Truth' umbilical = $2995.
Intro pricing = $2495 through end of April!
Photos to follow!
I am still evaluating Bybee Rails and Audio Magic Pulse Gen to determine their benefit to this mod.
A volume control COULD be installed. I would expect that most would want remote control as well. I would not want to machine the face of the player, so I would expect the VC to mount from the rear of the player. This would make it difficult to tell what the volume level IS if using RC of course. Input from those interested in this option welcome!
Thanks and i look forward to your reply.
Sincerely,
Dan w.
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Pleading ignorance here. so please bear with me. How do you get your CD collection playing through this device? Can I assume you have to download them one by one to your computer and go from there?
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You do need to rip CD's to a computer HD, that is correct. The Sony wil accept Ethernet or WiFi to download music from your computer. You can also connect an external HD to the Sony via USB. You can also purchase hi-Rez and DSD downloads online.
The Sony will also play Internet radio and can be easily controlled by iOS or Android based phone or tablet app. The app is very well done IMHO.
Thanks,
Dan
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Pleading ignorance here. so please bear with me. How do you get your CD collection playing through this device? Can I assume you have to download them one by one to your computer and go from there?
yes you have to download them one by one - you have to get them on the sony - so cd's must be be downloaded and ripped to your computer - or you have downloaded already ripped files to an external drive.
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The player plays whatever music files that you've transfered from your Computer to it's internal storage on board the player up to 1TB . If your collection exceeds that you would have to attach an empty(the Z1 has to format it)additional external drive to the Z1 for the player to place additional music files after it "registers" (which it does to all) before it places them in storage (here or on the internal drive).
To transfer any music from your Comuter (you can't transfer from external drives directly, as you will have
skipped "registering" the files) you first download the music transfer program from the address Sony provides to the Computer you will be using for this. If you have your music on external drives you have to reconnect them to your system & then target all the locations the transfer program should look for music files internally
& externally . A flow chart of the process would look something like this.
Download HAP Music Transfer to Computer > music on externals ? connect to Computer or > Computer > connect Computer to your network or directly (suggested for large collection) > HAP-Z1ES
I'm told there is a thumb drive included w/ the player. I strongly advise anyone to follow Sony's outlined
procedure as being a"New Technology" player the setup can really "bog down" if it does'nt see the steps in the
outlined order.
I would'nt transfer less then a "few" CDs at a time or a few TBs (if you've attached that empty drive to the player.) Several TBs will take a considerable amt of time as it is "registering" all the files as it places them in
storage.
As it takes me forever to type, some, most, or all of this may have already been explained (I'm not deleting this as I spent a bit of effort pretending to know how to type)
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I'm told there is a thumb drive included w/ the player. I strongly advise anyone to follow Sony's outlined
procedure as being a"New Technology" player the setup can really "bog down" if it does'nt see the steps in the
outlined order.
what does this statement mean?
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I'm not sure what you're asking about I thought it was you who mentioned that there was an included thumb drive that had the outline of the setup procedures on it.
As far as mentioning that it is a "New Tech" player there is no other existing player with the exact same set of
features on it & it's definitely a bad idea to not to follow Sony's directions closely (as some people, who may
not have been that careful had problems) as opposed to those who obviously did , ended up with a player that
worked the way it was designed to work.
We're not seeing as many reported problems with setting up . Word must be getting out about these threads
& people might be starting to realize that there are setup steps that are specific to this player only.
This all sounds like common sense, to most of us (I would hope). Some people throw that to the wind.
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uk calling I had the hap1eis 1tera unit . fitted 2 tera drive at start and formatted. using HAP Transfer I set it copying all files 45000 tracks 25000 cd. it took 9 days then two to count tracks down from 45ooo to zero. But the data base buffer scrool on the machine keeped going but no track numbers were showing at the side of the buffering scroll.
tried to use remote app , not all meta data was showing and play as sluggish/ stop/starting etc. would work better but not as it should from the front panel. did a rescan said on screen successful but didn't correct.all albums 2500 could be seen on the hard drive. took back to shop and got refund. tried in vain for sony support ZERO would like a replacement but want all my collection to have all data shown as it does with my NAIMstreAmer. ANY IDEAS THANKS ALLAN
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uk calling I had the hap1eis 1tera unit . fitted 2 tera drive at start and formatted. using HAP Transfer I set it copying all files 45000 tracks 25000 cd. it took 9 days then two to count tracks down from 45ooo to zero. But the data base buffer scrool on the machine keeped going but no track numbers were showing at the side of the buffering scroll.
tried to use remote app , not all meta data was showing and play as sluggish/ stop/starting etc. would work better but not as it should from the front panel. did a rescan said on screen successful but didn't correct.all albums 2500 could be seen on the hard drive. took back to shop and got refund. tried in vain for sony support ZERO would like a replacement but want all my collection to have all data shown as it does with my NAIMstreAmer. ANY IDEAS THANKS ALLAN
It could due to the Hap supports up to 40000 tracks only.
If you can get it back, reduce the number of tracks as low as possible, and re-scan it. And make sure that it's connected network during the re-scan, else you'll get ZERO listing again. :icon_lol:
For new comer, try to upload 100GB each time before you sleep, you'll have music for the next day. :icon_lol:
Use wired connection for music transfer only.
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always use wired, network very secure. where did 40,000 come from . on line sony manual is poor. and it gives the same info with the cheaper hap1 unit too thanks allan
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always use wired, network very secure. where did 40,000 come from . on line sony manual is poor. and it gives the same info with the cheaper hap1 unit too thanks allan
I got the 40000 tracks info from Japanese website. I guess someone in AudioCircle or ComputerAudio also mentioned it before.
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I got the 40000 tracks info from Japanese website. I guess someone in AudioCircle or ComputerAudio also mentioned it before.
Just noticed that the sony costs 40,000 yen in japan ;)
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I tried in vain to speak to sony uk about this issue ,because if you have a large collection one tera is no enough . therefore a collection will be likely over 40000 assuming that most cd average out at 15 per album. WHY cant we have a definite answer from SONY, any good sony contact over there .uk is very poor support
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Just noticed that the sony costs 40,000 yen in japan ;)
¥156,497 from http://kakaku.com/item/K0000579959/ :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
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¥156,497 from http://kakaku.com/item/K0000579959/ :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Google translate screwed me lol. 40,000 something money ha
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I'm not sure what you're asking about I thought it was you who mentioned that there was an included thumb drive that had the outline of the setup procedures on it.
your right i did say there was a thumb drive and it outlines the procedures -
I read your post hastily and thought you were inferring something else - sorry!
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I tried in vain to speak to sony uk about this issue ,because if you have a large collection one tera is no enough . therefore a collection will be likely over 40000 assuming that most cd average out at 15 per album. WHY cant we have a definite answer from SONY, any good sony contact over there .uk is very poor support
I would suggest that in all fairness to others, that this thread on this Circle (MWI) & the similar thread on the
Red Wine Audio Circle is'nt the place to try to troubleshoot equipment problems unless there was some "hands
on" work done to the specific unit that someone is having problems with.
The Audiocircle opens up on the latest postings page. At the top of that page numerous captions are listed . If you select the "Circles" caption it will open up to the page that lists all the Circles that apply (or are a better fit) to what you are looking for. If you scroll down the page you will find the "Critic's Circle" that is the place
to start a thread specific to your problem.
As I've mentioned it's more in the spirit of fairness to others that we don't inadvertently end up "Hijacking" a thread. Most of us look at all the different circles anyway & we might not be aggravating some of the
less patient viewers among us (& one of these days I'll learn how to say more with fewer words ; but
don't count on that one) ( The whole concept of Twitter is lost on me; Just can't do it)
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your right i did say there was a thumb drive and it outlines the procedures -
I read your post hastily and thought you were inferring something else - sorry!
Hey, not a problem.
I have a bad habit of trying to say too much in one (nah, scratch that) "every"
sentence. (My bad !)
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You do need to rip CD's to a computer HD, that is correct. The Sony wil accept Ethernet or WiFi to download music from your computer. You can also connect an external HD to the Sony via USB. You can also purchase hi-Rez and DSD downloads online.
The Sony will also play Internet radio and can be easily controlled by iOS or Android based phone or tablet app. The app is very well done IMHO.
Thanks,
Dan
Thanks. Makes it a nonstarter for me, and I'd suppose for many others with large, not to say huge, CD and SACD collections. Why can't a similar unit be created with a CD slot where you can play and directly download it to the device at the same time? There is a unit in Britain called Brennan that does this, but not at a so-called hi-rez level. I have no desire or inclination to hook a computer up to my stereo equipment.
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brennan is loooow fi so that not an option hd copiers died out over in uk streaming is big business. even your olive 4 etc doesn't have a wide support. I like the idea off the sony but I had all the problems listed before