[Angaria]

noticed this while browsing audiogon

Interesting combination of drivers.

[baka]

noticed this while browsing audiogon

Interesting combination of drivers.

  yes, nice and werry interesting  aa

[JoshK]

He chose good components IMHO.  His OB design has a lot in common with the one I am building.  The price is steep but so is the parts costs for such a product.

[MJK]

Maybe I missed it in the text, but what are the 15" woofers? I don't think they were ever explicitly identified like the 12" mid and compression driver.

[panomaniac]

He doesn't say.

If the x-over is done right - could be a killer rig.

[Mariusz]

Interesting!
Should EP feel under pressure......maybe not.

PS
Josh,
If your speakers are of similar design .........great. But I am sure that you would want yours to go down even lower......or not.
And THX for all the info and your help.

Cheers
Mariusz

[JoshK]

Mariusz, mine in all likelihood won't go lower.  I actually am not trying to get them lower as I will run subs.  Trying to eq OB woofers low is kinda pointless IMHO.

P.S. I like how he made it for biamping, which is the way to go, again IMO.

[-Richard-]

I have to admit the price put a smile on my face!!

$7800... plus tax... plus shipping... the last time I looked my OB's cost me around $400.

My advice... DIY and save $7800 (mine are cheaper than the tax alone)... not to mention the wealth of real learning one experiences along the way.

I suspect is sounds "bigger" but certainly not "better" qualitatively than what I am hearing right now as I type... in my world bigger is definitely not better!!

With prices like that all of us who are involved in the DIY OB explorations can allow ourselves the luxury of a smile.

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

[ttan98]

Maybe I missed it in the text, but what are the 15" woofers? I don't think they were ever explicitly identified like the 12" mid and compression driver.

I suspect 15"----> Alpha 15A, I don't own the Alpha, those who do will tell straight away.

[Angaria]

As far as the 15's.... at the very least they aren't stock alpha15's (which are staring me in the face).
Competition: who's the first one to positively identify those 15" woofers?

The supravox field coil mids look interesting - has anyone ever hear one?

[zybar]

I have to admit the price put a smile on my face!!

$7800... plus tax... plus shipping... the last time I looked my OB's cost me around $400.

My advice... DIY and save $7800 (mine are cheaper than the tax alone)... not to mention the wealth of real learning one experiences along the way.

I suspect is sounds "bigger" but certainly not "better" qualitatively than what I am hearing right now as I type... in my world bigger is definitely not better!!

With prices like that all of us who are involved in the DIY OB explorations can allow ourselves the luxury of a smile.

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

Richard,

Not disagreeing with your direction or choices, but you couldn't even get all the drivers this person is using for $400!

Also, if you haven't heard these speakers, isn't it a little silly to say that you suspect it isn't better qualitatively than your design?  Even if you are familiar with the drivers, you don't know how he is using them, crossover points, etc...His IP is certainly worth something (assuming the design sounds good) and the market will clearly tell if he is priced properly.

George

[-Richard-]

Hi Zybar ~

Your post is a traditional response that has its merits. No argument here. And yes... as a professional designer myself I feel it imperative that all designers... no matter what they are designing... should be payed appropriately for their services and gifts... and the products they design should reflect the Research & Development of their professional services.

How do I know that my speakers sound qualitatively as good as the K&Q Sound Genesis Model 1 high efficiency planar?

I find it interesting that they avoid calling their speakers Open Baffle. I will try to explain what I am getting at here.

From my listening and personal experience working with OB's I have found that what is most incredible sounding about them is the essential OB sound itself... OB's have a characteristic sound... extremely open, highly saturated, tonally rich, texturally differentiated, incredibly spacious, lively and dynamic.

For one thing the drivers do not have a box to limit their pistonic movement so there is no resistance to have to work around... also the problems of dampening the back-wave so it does not re-enter the cone area thereby canceling the front wave is also not an issue... early reflections which are a serious problem with boxed speakers owing to their limited dispersion pattern is also not a problem... nor is there as much of a problem of the drivers exciting the box material which duplicates frequency resonances... these factors and many others contribute to a sense of freedom... a dynamic vividness that is characteristic of all OB applications assuming that there is some synergy to the drivers and their relationship to the size and shape of the baffle.

Are there differences in the sound from one OB to the another? Of course... drivers used, crossover design, design of the baffle, components used, room size, position of baffles... all of this plays a part.

But assuming a reasonably well implemented OB application... the similarities will be much more apparent then the differences... and it was in that context that I wrote my post. Certainly not to take anything away from what looks like a wonderful design... even if it is too large for my space... I like Dmason's approach "less is more"... but that is a personal aesthetic choice.

Of course, Zybar, please feel free to spend any sum you think neccessary to get the speakers you desire. My post was to congratulate everyone who has been... or is planning to be... adventurous enough to try their hand at a DIY OB project.

Hi Angaria ~

I should have said... thanks so much for bringing this new OB design to our attention. Very interesting indeed.

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

[zybar]

Hi Zybar ~

Your post is a traditional response that has its merits. No argument here. And yes... as a professional designer myself I feel it imperative that all designers... no matter what they are designing... should be payed appropriately for their services and gifts... and the products they design should reflect the Research & Development of their professional services.

How do I know that my speakers sound qualitatively as good as the K&Q Sound Genesis Model 1 high efficiency planar?

I find it interesting that they avoid calling their speakers Open Baffle. I will try to explain what I am getting at here.

From my listening and personal experience working with OB's I have found that what is most incredible sounding about them is the essential OB sound itself... OB's have a characteristic sound... extremely open, highly saturated, tonally rich, texturally differentiated, incredibly spacious, lively and dynamic.

For one thing the drivers do not have a box to limit their pistonic movement so there is no resistance to have to work around... also the problems of dampening the back-wave so it does not re-enter the cone area thereby canceling the front wave is also not an issue... early reflections which are a serious problem with boxed speakers owing to their limited dispersion pattern is also not a problem... nor is there as much of a problem of the drivers exciting the box material which duplicates frequency resonances... these factors and many others contribute to a sense of freedom... a dynamic vividness that is characteristic of all OB applications assuming that there is some synergy to the drivers and their relationship to the size and shape of the baffle.

Are there differences in the sound from one OB to the another? Of course... drivers used, crossover design, design of the baffle, components used, room size, position of baffles... all of this plays a part.

But assuming a reasonably well implemented OB application... the similarities will be much more apparent then the differences... and it was in that context that I wrote my post. Certainly not to take anything away from what looks like a wonderful design... even if it is too large for my space... I like Dmason's approach "less is more"... but that is a personal aesthetic choice.

Of course, Zybar, please feel free to spend any sum you think neccessary to get the speakers you desire. My post was to congratulate everyone who has been... or is planning to be... adventurous enough to try their hand at a DIY OB project.

Hi Angaria ~

I should have said... thanks so much for bringing this new OB design to our attention. Very interesting indeed.

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

Great reply Richard.   

I currently have three sets of speakers and one them is the Emerald Physics CS2's.  I totally agree with you about OB's have a certain sound.  The CS2's sound very different from my Omega Revolutions (single Alinco 8" driver) and from my Vandersteen 5A's.  Which is the best?  I dunno...   I do know that all of them produce some very enjoyable music and I can be happy with any of them in my main system.

Should be interesting to see what type of reaction K&O receives.

George

[-Richard-]

Hi Zybar ~

You have an enviable array of very fine speakers in your life... congratulations!!!!

I was wondering how your very highly acclaimed (reviewers gush with what I am certain is well-deserved praise) Emerald Physics CS2's would sound in comparison to the K&Q Sound Genesis Model 1... your Emerald Physics CS2's are considerably less expensive... at less than half the price.

It would be very interesting and highly instructive if we could all hear a shoot-out of the current Open Baffle speakers commercially available... there are quite a few now. Open Baffle speaker design is leading a revolution in home audio.

It seems entirely clear to me that Dmason is very much responsible for this revolution in commercial Open Baffle speaker design... he heard an example of an OB implementation several years ago and immediately brought it to our attention... right here on AC with his exemplary "Dark Star" thread...  Dmason personally urged me to jump in and explore its potential for a paradigm shift in audio... away from hifi... and toward the "real"... the attention OB's have garnered on AC have helped to stimulate commercial speaker designers to take it seriously.

I have been slowly working with my own simple OB design since then... and it keeps getting better. These commercial designs will only help us to understand the full potential of OB's as they perfect their designs.

With the Emerald Physics CS2's, Zybar, you are lucky indeed to be enjoying audio on a level that few have experienced.

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

[Angaria]

Richard - you're welcome.

I've been digging around for some impression of field coil drivers and found this thread on the asylum including some from OB setups.

[dyohn]

According to the designer, the woofers are Selinium pro-audio woofers.

[Angaria]

There was a member here, who's name sadly excapes me at the moment, who had good results with 15" seleniums in a OB design... believe it was the 15pw3, which you can snag from PE.  qts is a very nice .6 and fs is decent.  But I'm not claiming that's one used in this design - many selenium woofers have a similar profile.

[nicksgem10s]

These look interesting and I bet they could sound very good.  The price is steep but so are many products in high end audio.

One doesn't need to spend a lot on OB speakers to get satisfying results.

I am with Richard on smiling about DIY OB speakers.  I have just recently built my first pair of OB speakers and learned a lot and had a great time building them with my dad.   

I have been spending a lot of time reading and learning on Hawthorne Audio forums.    

OB speakers are really cool and I am glad to have experienced them with both the CS2 & now my own pair of OB that I built.

-Nick

[JoshK]

It seems entirely clear to me that Dmason is very much responsible for this revolution in commercial Open Baffle speaker design... he heard an example of an OB implementation several years ago and immediately brought it to our attention... right here on AC with his exemplary "Dark Star" thread...  Dmason personally urged me to jump in and explore its potential for a paradigm shift in audio... away from hifi... and toward the "real"... the attention OB's have garnered on AC have helped to stimulate commercial speaker designers to take it seriously.

No offense to Dr. Dan or yourself, but OB speakers had been all the rage in the DIY scene for quite some time before that.  Thoersten Loesch and Nuuk (don't know his real name off hand) are just two off hand that I can think of who had their OB designs in the public domain for atleast 5 years. 

[markC]

Sorry to go a bit off topic but...
Although that is definitely true, the Dark Star threads received an amazing amount of interest. Not only here on AC, but links to  Darkstar can be found all over the web.
Doc Mason's enthusiasm caused a fellow ACer to give them a try and when I visited him and heard his OB's I had to build a pair for myself. The fellow AC member still uses his and I still use mine.