Coffee

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newzooreview

Re: Coffee
« Reply #180 on: 18 Jan 2024, 06:20 pm »
Thank you for providing this information and recommendation. I took a brief look and find myself tempted. [I've never roasted before - mostly because of laziness and fear of the mess and smoke from traditional roasters - wife hates messy.] Do you own the original capacity model or the newer '100' model? If the smaller model, would you recommend the 100 model? How simple (or onerous) is the cleaning process? [My wife and I typically use ~one pound of roasted beans/week with our Profitec Pro 500 espresso machine.] Any other thoughts (pro or con) on the Ikawa roaster?

Michael

I have the current production Ikawa Home, which roasts 100g. The beans lose about 15% of their weight on roasting, and I grind 20g of roasted beans for a 300ml pourover cup. I drink two cups in the mornings, so I typically roast 4 batches at a time which lasts 8-9 days. I would definitely recommend the 100g Home model (I'm not sure there is currently a 50g Home model). There is a professional model of the Ikawa that is 5x the price of the home model. It does some pretty cool things, like tracking moisture to know chemically when first crack occurs. It might come in a 50g version, but that's for a commercial roaster to test small batches before dialing in a roast on a commercial drum roaster.

The Ikawa can roast back-to-back batches without any time between batches, and you can walk away, and it will complete the roast and cool automatically. The Behmor will shut off and ruin your beans if you aren't in the room when it beeps, and the Behmor needs a ~12-minute cool down between batches. It is significantly easier to roast multiple batches with the Ikawa.

1. Cleanup: once a month, just the glass top. I use diluted Simple Green which is non-toxic and easily removes the "mist" from bean oils. The polished aluminum interior turns color over time, but Ikawa does not recommend cleaning it. It's more like the seasoning in a cast iron skillet.

Cleanup on the Ikawa is trivial, especially compared to the Behmor. My first Behmor lasted a few years, and then the motor died. My second Behmor was extremely inconsistent. The Ikawa solves a lot of the irritations of the Behmor.

2. Chaff management: The Ikawa collects the chaff in a small cup and you dump that in the trash. You can handle the insulated chaff cup with your bare hands immediately after the roast. The Behmor has a metal tray that you typically let cool before emptying (or use oven mitts). It's not horrible, but the Behmor always ended up wafting some chaff around the counter and onto the floor. It's just a lot messier in comparison to the Ikawa.

3. Cool down: The Ikawa cools the beans quickly, and you can stop the roast at any point and start the strong, forced air cooldown. The Behmor has a lot more mass to cool, so if you want to stop the roast and cool within 90 seconds, you have to use oven mitts to remove the container and dump the beans. To avoid baking the beans I setup a cooling fan drawing air down over a meshed sieve. For dark roasts it doesn't matter much, but for light to medium roasts you want to cool quickly at the end to avoid losing flavor.

You can download all of the roast recipes for Ikawa beans and the app comes with adjustable standard roast curves for espresso and pour-over from light to dark. I usually try a few different roast options with a new bag of beans to see what I like in the city+ to full city range.

For my needs, the Ikawa has been a good compromise between convenience, control, and consistency. With the price of good roasted beans, it pays for itself in about 3 years, and the enjoyment after a getting acquainted period has been high.

DaveC113

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #181 on: 18 Jan 2024, 06:49 pm »
I have the current production Ikawa Home, which roasts 100g. The beans lose about 15% of their weight on roasting, and I grind 20g of roasted beans for a 300ml pourover cup. I drink two cups in the mornings, so I typically roast 4 batches at a time which lasts 8-9 days. I would definitely recommend the 100g Home model (I'm not sure there is currently a 50g Home model). There is a professional model of the Ikawa that is 5x the price of the home model. It does some pretty cool things, like tracking moisture to know chemically when first crack occurs. It might come in a 50g version, but that's for a commercial roaster to test small batches before dialing in a roast on a commercial drum roaster.

The Ikawa can roast back-to-back batches without any time between batches, and you can walk away, and it will complete the roast and cool automatically. The Behmor will shut off and ruin your beans if you aren't in the room when it beeps, and the Behmor needs a ~12-minute cool down between batches. It is significantly easier to roast multiple batches with the Ikawa.

1. Cleanup: once a month, just the glass top. I use diluted Simple Green which is non-toxic and easily removes the "mist" from bean oils. The polished aluminum interior turns color over time, but Ikawa does not recommend cleaning it. It's more like the seasoning in a cast iron skillet.

Cleanup on the Ikawa is trivial, especially compared to the Behmor. My first Behmor lasted a few years, and then the motor died. My second Behmor was extremely inconsistent. The Ikawa solves a lot of the irritations of the Behmor.

2. Chaff management: The Ikawa collects the chaff in a small cup and you dump that in the trash. You can handle the insulated chaff cup with your bare hands immediately after the roast. The Behmor has a metal tray that you typically let cool before emptying (or use oven mitts). It's not horrible, but the Behmor always ended up wafting some chaff around the counter and onto the floor. It's just a lot messier in comparison to the Ikawa.

3. Cool down: The Ikawa cools the beans quickly, and you can stop the roast at any point and start the strong, forced air cooldown. The Behmor has a lot more mass to cool, so if you want to stop the roast and cool within 90 seconds, you have to use oven mitts to remove the container and dump the beans. To avoid baking the beans I setup a cooling fan drawing air down over a meshed sieve. For dark roasts it doesn't matter much, but for light to medium roasts you want to cool quickly at the end to avoid losing flavor.

You can download all of the roast recipes for Ikawa beans and the app comes with adjustable standard roast curves for espresso and pour-over from light to dark. I usually try a few different roast options with a new bag of beans to see what I like in the city+ to full city range.

For my needs, the Ikawa has been a good compromise between convenience, control, and consistency. With the price of good roasted beans, it pays for itself in about 3 years, and the enjoyment after a getting acquainted period has been high.

That looks great, been considering a home roaster.


newzooreview

Re: Coffee
« Reply #182 on: 18 Jan 2024, 07:58 pm »
It's an air (or fluid bed) roaster. The pile of beans rotates counter-clockwise on a bed of air, which helps them roast evenly. Some beans, especially dry/natural processed beans, inherently do not roast to the exact same color, but the air bed helps.

The only issue I've had is every once in a while the beans do not rotate/spin smoothly. They would get stuck briefly and stop or slow rotating. Now, when I put the beans in I give the machine a shake to settle the beans evenly in the roasting chamber. Since I started doing that I have not had a problem with any batches stopping rotating. Keeping the glass top clean seems to help, probably because the clean glass lets the air circulate smoothly inside the machine.

I did use the Behmor for a few years to get used to roasting basics like listening for first crack and knowing how long I like to let beans go after first crack starts to get the flavor I like. I think you can learn those things using the Ikawa just as well, however. It's hard to go wrong with the built-in profiles and the ones that come with the Ikawa beans.

You use your phone to send a profile to the machine. At that point you could, theoretically, never connect it to your phone again. It will roast according to the stored profile without the phone, over and over again. It's fun to try different profiles, so I typically connect it and load a new profile every few batches. But it is not as if you are worrying about keeping a Bluetooth app connected to the device just to have it operate. It is not finicky like some appliances that just become a paperweight without their phone apps.

Craig Young

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #183 on: 19 Jan 2024, 12:06 am »
Once in a while I order from Japan "UCC" Blue Mountain coffee. I grind 12 to 13 grams and pour 147 to 150 grams of hot water over the grounds.

I believe the picked beans are shipped to Japan where they do the roasting.

Yummy  :)

mav52

Re: Coffee
« Reply #184 on: 19 Jan 2024, 01:07 am »
Once in a while I order from Japan "UCC" Blue Mountain coffee. I grind 12 to 13 grams and pour 147 to 150 grams of hot water over the grounds.

I believe the picked beans are shipped to Japan where they do the roasting.

Yummy  :)

I don't know where you live but why not purchase Blue Mountain Coffee from the country its actually grown in.  If it doesn't have the Jamaica Agricultural Commodities Regulatory Authority (JACRA) SEAL its not real.   We buy ours from Plantation Blue Coffee, Clifton Mount Estate are a few in Jamaica .

Craig Young

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #185 on: 19 Jan 2024, 08:11 am »
"why not purchase Blue Mountain Coffee from the country its actually grown in."

I have yet to experience the Jamacia roast and order from their web stores, but I have not gotten around to yet. I needed to refresh my memories of the UCC brand from when I was in Japan. I tried several of their other different whole beans that they sell and ship including their Kona from their big island farm.

Thanks for the JACRA information it is good to learn about that.

mav52

Re: Coffee
« Reply #186 on: 19 Jan 2024, 03:24 pm »
"why not purchase Blue Mountain Coffee from the country its actually grown in."

I have yet to experience the Jamacia roast and order from their web stores, but I have not gotten around to yet. I needed to refresh my memories of the UCC brand from when I was in Japan. I tried several of their other different whole beans that they sell and ship including their Kona from their big island farm.

Thanks for the JACRA information it is good to learn about that.

Thanks for the explanation.  Blue Mountain and the authentic Kona Typica variety is rather pricey, but darn it they taste good.  The wife and I of course don't drink it everyday, but grind a small batch on those special days.   PS: I get my 100% Kona from Hawaiian Queen Coffee and Big Island Coffee Roasters to name a few and there are a lot of growers. And there are two coffees grown on the Big Island. 100% Kona and 100% KA'U.  On average, Kona coffee usually sells for $40 to $50 per bag, whereas Ka’u coffees tend to cost less, retailing at around $25 to $35 per bag.  WE order a lot of the Ka'u and find it pretty darn smooth.  A good article on a comparison. https://bigislandcoffeeroasters.com/blogs/blog/whats-the-difference-between-kau-and-kona-coffee

S Clark

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #187 on: 19 Jan 2024, 04:23 pm »
I had Blue Mountain coffee in Jamaica nearly 50 years ago, and I've roasted it at home several time.  Other than the first experience, I've found it good, but not worth the premium compared to other good quality coffees.   I've roasted many of the Kona coffees as well, but usually go back to a good Costa Rican, Ethiopean, or Indian coffee.  Even some of he Mexican coffees are quite good.... it's all personal taste. 

mick wolfe

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #188 on: 19 Jan 2024, 04:52 pm »
Agreed. I've been perfectly happy roasting Ethiopian, Columbian, Brazilian and Peruvian among many others. Never found the Blue Mountain or Kona varieties to justify the extra cost. That said....each to his or her own.

DaveC113

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #189 on: 19 Jan 2024, 06:07 pm »
It's nearly impossible to get the traditional Kona or Blue Mtn coffees today. You get stuff that is called that, but it's absolutely not. If you experienced the real deal of either the expense is easy to understand. The flavors were very distinct and unmistakable for anything else, barely comparable to "normal" coffee. I'm not sure why this is the case, possibly has to do with the coffee rust disease that many traditional varieties don't have resistance to. Farmers have had to hybridize everything with resistant strains.

If you want something special today look elsewhere, such as Sudan Rume, Yemen and Gesha types. The best Geshas are unrecognizable as coffee, Sudan Rume has a very unique flavor, I've only had one Yemen which was distinct, and a cross between a Gesha and "normal" coffee.

S Clark

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #190 on: 19 Jan 2024, 06:52 pm »
When the green coffee suppliers have Kona or Blue Mountain in stock, it's the real stuff.  They usually buy from the source, and not some stuff that that's gone through 3 hands to get to the roaster. 
That said, it's like stereo.  You want the "n"th percent improvement, get ready to pay the price... and if you can build (or roast) it yourself, you can do it as well or better at a more reasonable cost.   I think the last time I roasted Blue Mountain it was 4-5 years ago at about half the usual cost ($18 per lb. or thereabouts). The last I saw it available it was around $30. 

DaveC113

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #191 on: 19 Jan 2024, 07:20 pm »
When the green coffee suppliers have Kona or Blue Mountain in stock, it's the real stuff.  They usually buy from the source, and not some stuff that that's gone through 3 hands to get to the roaster. 
That said, it's like stereo.  You want the "n"th percent improvement, get ready to pay the price... and if you can build (or roast) it yourself, you can do it as well or better at a more reasonable cost.   I think the last time I roasted Blue Mountain it was 4-5 years ago at about half the usual cost ($18 per lb. or thereabouts). The last I saw it available it was around $30.

I've bought direct as well. Not the same coffee as 20 years ago imo.

S Clark

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #192 on: 19 Jan 2024, 10:04 pm »
So you think the coffee plantations are growing a different clone?  I've not come across that before. 

DaveC113

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #193 on: 19 Jan 2024, 10:52 pm »
So you think the coffee plantations are growing a different clone?  I've not come across that before.

It's like there's a bit of that Kona or Blue Mtn flavor but it's not as distinct and has lost that wow factor. Granted I haven't tried every seller out there, but I lost hope and have been saving my cash for other varietals that I find more worth the money. I used to be able to go to local roasters and buy great quality Kona or Blue Mtn beans, that ended quite a while ago. Since then I ordered direct from some growers who sell online but never found anything that great. Could be you have to get lucky to get a good batch, or know the right seller, I have no idea. Judging from other responses here I think others have had a similar experience, if you get the real deal it's very clear why it costs what it does and comparison with other "regular" beans seems out of place. Today I get that from some of the Sudan Rume and Gesha varietals, but they can cost a small fortune too.

newzooreview

Re: Coffee
« Reply #194 on: 19 Jan 2024, 10:57 pm »
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/18/science/kona-coffee-hawaii-authenticity.html





"…coffee farmers in Hawaii's Kona region, known for producing one of the world's most expensive coffees, won a series of settlements totaling over $41 million. This victory came after a nearly five-year legal battle against distributors and retailers accused of misleadingly using the Kona name. The lawsuit was supported by a novel chemical analysis of coffee from Hawaii and around the world, which helped to identify counterfeit Kona beans. This led some companies to include the percentage of authentic Kona beans on their product labels…"

Craig Young

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #195 on: 20 Jan 2024, 05:26 pm »
This is interesting to learn about the Kona coffee farmers which lead me to search and learn more about the continued struggles. I saw an article about a study concluding this month which will be reported to the State Senate about the label use "Kona Blend". I think that they rescinded the 51% law and opted for a study.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #196 on: 23 Jan 2024, 02:35 am »
Agreed. I've been perfectly happy roasting Ethiopian, Columbian, Brazilian and Peruvian among many others. Never found the Blue Mountain or Kona varieties to justify the extra cost. That said....each to his or her own.
What are the Brazilian coffees are you buying?

FullRangeMan

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #197 on: 23 Jan 2024, 02:38 am »
I had Blue Mountain coffee in Jamaica nearly 50 years ago, and I've roasted it at home several time.  Other than the first experience, I've found it good, but not worth the premium compared to other good quality coffees.   I've roasted many of the Kona coffees as well, but usually go back to a good Costa Rican, Ethiopean, or Indian coffee.  Even some of he Mexican coffees are quite good.... it's all personal taste.
Are you using any spices in the roasting?
Do you have any recommended spices?

mick wolfe

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #198 on: 23 Jan 2024, 03:22 pm »
What are the Brazilian coffees are you buying?

I buy green beans almost exclusively from Sweet Maria's. When I buy I scan thru most all coffees from different regions.(countries and continents)
So it's usually a moving target and I never look to repeat something I had bought two or three months ago. You may never see that particular vendor pop up again. I buy based on curiosity and the rating that particular green coffee has been given. This ( highest rated) usually ends being the priciest, but usually only another dollar or so per pound. So basically, not terribly a complex approach, but one that has served me well. Haven't bought a Brazilian coffee in probably three or four months, so no recollection of the vendor. Safe to say it was the highest rated and most expensive though.

S Clark

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Re: Coffee
« Reply #199 on: 23 Jan 2024, 04:18 pm »
I've bought this Brazilian coffee before.  It's a mild coffee good for medium roast.  I like Mexican coffees better with similar profiles and cost.   
https://burmancoffee.com/product/coffee/brazil-mantiqueira/