Balanced Inputs/Outputs - What does it mean?

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BeeBop

Balanced Inputs/Outputs - What does it mean?
« on: 7 Dec 2003, 11:45 am »
I see the expression "balanced inputs" used in the forum and in (amp) manufacturer info. Would somebody be kind enough to explain what the term means? Is there such a thing as a balanced output, say from a pre-amp?

I did a search but didn't find anything that gave me that "AHA!" moment in the many items returned.

Much obliged

Tonto Yoder

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Balanced Inputs/Outputs - What does it mean?
« Reply #1 on: 7 Dec 2003, 12:24 pm »
There's an article in Stereophile's online archives titled "Balanced: Benefit or Bluff."  

In simplest terms, balanced connections involve three wires (and thus the three pins of an XLR connector)--hot, cold & ground; single-ended (using RCA's) generally uses two signal paths.
    From Stereophile:
    "In balanced working, the signal's positive-polarity connection (+, or hot) and negative-polarity connection (-, or cold) are segregated so that the - is no longer combined with the earth, shield, or ground line. Instead, a three-wire connection gives the ground line its own separate identity. The opposite-polarity + and - signal lines may then be said to be balanced, or set equal with respect to the ground (figs.3 & 4). This balance is engineered, not for aesthetic or philosophical reasons, but so that the next input in the chain can be arranged just to look at the difference between the two audio lines. Every proper balanced input operates as a differential circuit, and any unwanted noise, hum, or interference common to both lines is therefore canceled (fig.4)."

The whole article is
http://www.stereophile.com/features/335/

I happen to have BAT gear--phono, preamp and amp.  The connection between phono and preamp is ONLY balanced, the preamp offers balanced or single-ended inputs and outputs, the amp accepts ONLY balanced inputs.  There ARE adaptors that allow a balanced input to accept an RCA/single-ended output but it's not truly balanced. And there IS some gear that has seemingly balanced outputs (i.e. XLR jacks) where the internal circuitry ISN"T balanced.

Sorry if this isn't an "AHA" moment, but it's the best I could do.

BeeBop

Balanced Inputs/Outputs - What does it mean?
« Reply #2 on: 7 Dec 2003, 12:41 pm »
AHA! The ground bit is what I was missing. Now I need to find out if my receiver is outputting balanced. I am looking at an amp (Carver ZR1000) that has balanced inputs.

Thanks Tonto!

PhilNYC

Balanced Inputs/Outputs - What does it mean?
« Reply #3 on: 7 Dec 2003, 12:48 pm »
A "balanced input" is one where there are three pins on the input...one ground, one positive, and one negative.  The positive and negative pins receive identical signals, except that they are 180 degrees out of phase with respect to each other.  In other words, one is a mirror image of the other.  The purpose of doing this is to reject noise that is picked up in the signal path by "common mode noise rejection".  Any noise that is picked up in a balanced cable will show up as in-phase between the positive and the negative, and therefore can be cancelled/eliminated.

Balanced inputs and outputs can be identified on audio components by use of XLR inputs/outputs (instead of RCA).  This doesn't guarantee that the internal design of the component is balanced (a component that is of fully balanced design will basically have double the internal circuitry...one for the positive and one for the negative signal).  So yes, a preamp (or any component) can output a balanced signal.  

Depending on who you ask, the benefits of being balanced can range.  Some believe that balanced inputs/outputs are only worthwhile if you have long cable runs susceptable to picking up EMI/RFI (for example, you have monoblocks that sit next to your speakers, and your interconnects from your preamp is particularly long to accommodate this placement).  On the other extreme, some believe that using fully balanced components and cables from your source all the way to your amp is beneficial in eliminating all noise throughout your system because components generate more EMI/RFI and are susceptable to taking on noise than cables do.  

Hope this helps...

Phil

BeeBop

Balanced Inputs/Outputs - What does it mean?
« Reply #4 on: 7 Dec 2003, 01:01 pm »
Very helpful Phil. Many thanks.

Seems like my receiver pre-outs are only good old RCA. But the receiver and amp will be only 6 inches or so apart. Maybe if I get some hum I could try to wrap a cheapie ferrite core around each cable.

Tonto Yoder

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Balanced Inputs/Outputs - What does it mean?
« Reply #5 on: 7 Dec 2003, 01:05 pm »
Quote from: BeeBop
AHA! The ground bit is what I was missing. Now I need to find out if my receiver is outputting balanced. I am looking at an amp (Carver ZR1000) that has balanced inputs.

Thanks Tonto!

You can always use adaptors if the Carver only has balanced inputs; in fact, I used BAT adaptors at the BAT amp inputs when I had a Melos single-ended preamp.  Later, I got the BAT preamp with its balanced outs, so the adaptor moved to the preamp's CD input.

Here's one such adaptor for sale--
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?cablintr&1073753518
There are others that are more expensive and probably some that are cheaper.  Some manufacturers will make RCA to XLR cables--you might pick up a set used???
A reasonable set is on eBay--
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23783&item=2578572010

The XLR needs to be different--male instead of female--and you only need two cables, not the four being auctioned.