castrati recordings?

JP78 · « **on:** 11 Sep 2009, 12:29 am »

hello, i've stumbled across some readings of the castrati...are there any recordings available of this? how do they compare to excellent countertenor recordings? sorry for the ignorance of questions but i'm a newbie to opera and trying out some new music.

thanks!

doorman · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Sep 2009, 02:23 am »

Not a connoisseur of the genre, but at http://www.uhfmag.com issue #44, iirc, there was a feature article on the castrati
Good luck!
Don

Blackmore · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Sep 2009, 02:41 am »

There is apparently only one recording of a true castrati, Alessandro Moreschi. The recording dates from 1902 and Moreschi was quite old by then. Here's a link. He is not in fine voice, but towards the end there is one high note that gives you a glimpse of what castrati in full voice could have sounded like.
From what I've been told by professors, any recording after Moreschi is referred to as merely countertenor. I assume that would be because the countertenors weren't 'altered' to achieve the high range. I am prepared to be proven wrong, but that's what I remember from college music history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv-S3uoeTXg

TerryO · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Sep 2009, 07:17 am »

Quote from: Blackmore on 11 Sep 2009, 02:41 am

There is apparently only one recording of a true castrati, Alessandro Moreschi. The recording dates from 1902 and Moreschi was quite old by then. Here's a link. He is not in fine voice, but towards the end there is one high note that gives you a glimpse of what castrati in full voice could have sounded like.
From what I've been told by professors, any recording after Moreschi is referred to as merely countertenor. I assume that would be because the countertenors weren't 'altered' to achieve the high range. I am prepared to be proven wrong, but that's what I remember from college music history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv-S3uoeTXg

I believe that he was recorded in 1902 and 1904 by the same people, The second recording is much better sounding than the first.

I really feel badly, as you discribe him as "being quite old by then" [1902]. As he was born in 1858, that would make him 44 years old, which I had assumed was fairly prime for a singer. He died in 1922.

Best Regards,
TerryO

Blackmore · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Sep 2009, 11:22 am »

Ah, not so old. Too bad there aren't more recordings since the scalar passage near the end was quite nice. I'll look for that second recording.

woodsyi · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Sep 2009, 01:44 pm »

Excellent question.

The Last Castrato is a CD. From what I have read, he was not a "great" castrato, but I ordered the CD anyway as a historical momento. Much like Caruso recordings, I hope to get an idea of the kind of voice that a Catrato had from this. You can also listen to solo moments from Vienna Boys Choir recordings and get a sense of what a Castrato can do with that vocal range and more power.

JP78 · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Sep 2009, 03:34 am »

thanks very much for the additional information and links. i'm going to go to the library tomorrow and see what i can get my hands on before i purchase anything.

while i'm at it, are there any other choir/opera albums or artists i should look at that also have that reported 'ethereal' quality?

best,

jp

woodsyi · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Sep 2009, 04:17 pm »

If you want ethereal vocals, you cannot do any better than Bach's St. Matthew's Passion. It's a massive composition by any standard and especially for Baroque music. It calls for 2 orchestras, 2 choruses and soloists. Some have even gone on to say this is the most "perfect" music, bar none. Since church barred female participation in the 18th century, all of this was written for and sung by male singers. There are 3 modern recordings that are considered great: Herreweghe, Gardiner, Harnoncourt. If you don't want to get the whole work (though I strongly recommend this music) try highlights for sure.

BTW, countertenors have become very popular recently. Check out Altus: From Castrato to Countertenor.

woodsyi · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 12:46 pm »

Looks like a great book/CD on Castrati will be coming out soon.

Sacrificium features Cecilia Bartoli singing some of the best music written for castrati and the book is reported to feature insightful articles covering the fascinating and tragic world of castrati.

goldlizsts · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Oct 2009, 08:46 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 15 Sep 2009, 12:46 pm

Looks like a great book/CD on Castrati will be coming out soon.

Sacrificium features Cecilia Bartoli singing some of the best music written for castrati and the book is reported to feature insightful articles covering the fascinating and tragic world of castrati.

I was JUST going to post, and I saw yours, darn!!!

Yeap, it's with much fanfare that Bartoli will be coming out with the CD. The issue will have like a 60-page booklet, probably on her research on those rare gems (her specialty) of the castrati. Official release is next week I think. I'm keeping my eyes open. Her recordings are surefires.

goldlizsts · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Oct 2009, 10:08 am »

Quote from: woodsyi on 15 Sep 2009, 12:46 pm

Looks like a great book/CD on Castrati will be coming out soon.

Sacrificium features Cecilia Bartoli singing some of the best music written for castrati and the book is reported to feature insightful articles covering the fascinating and tragic world of castrati.

Special event today on NPR promoting. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113840375&sc=nl&cc=cn-20091028

woodsyi · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Oct 2009, 07:28 pm »

I received the CDs in the booklet yesterday. I didn't get a chance to listen but I will this weekend. I just finished listening to it on my PC but I don't get inspired by what I get from my little Altec Lansing PC speakers at work. I have to go home and let my tubes do their magic on her voice. I have listened to Altus and the countertenors. There seems to be something missing from the men's singing even though they sing in the same register. I want to do a blind test to see if I can differentiate counter tenors and mezzo sopranos. I will have to come up with selections....

thunderbrick · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Oct 2009, 11:41 pm »

If the Yankees get swept in the series you'll be able to make castrati recordings on any street corner in the Bronx.

goldlizsts · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 Oct 2009, 12:02 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 29 Oct 2009, 07:28 pm

I received the CDs in the booklet yesterday. I didn't get a chance to listen but I will this weekend. I just finished listening to it on my PC but I don't get inspired by what I get from my little Altec Lansing PC speakers at work. I have to go home and let my tubes do their magic on her voice. I have listened to Altus and the countertenors. There seems to be something missing from the men's singing even though they sing in the same register. I want to do a blind test to see if I can differentiate counter tenors and mezzo sopranos. I will have to come up with selections....

Notes on the new recording. 2 for the price of 1; includes a Rene Fleming recording. aa http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/arts/music/25gure.html?pagewanted=1&ref=music
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113840375#tracks

shep · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Jan 2010, 10:15 am »

Quote from: woodsyi on 15 Sep 2009, 12:46 pm

Looks like a great book/CD on Castrati will be coming out soon.

Sacrificium features Cecilia Bartoli singing some of the best music written for castrati and the book is reported to feature insightful articles covering the fascinating and tragic world of castrati.

Better late than never! I've had this 2cd "pack" since it came out here. We will never know how a "real" castrati sounded in their heyday so this can only tell us what kind of music they sung, and what music it was! This is an absolutely glorious recording/performance by the greatest singer of our age (yes I am an unabashed fan-boy of Cecilia). The recording is first-rate, the orchestra is splendid and in total osmosis with Bartoli. As for the Diva herself...I wonder if any castrati could sing with her power and prowess, but we will never know. I have heard that she is on the decline but if this recording is any indication, that was very premature. In fact, I think she has matured and if anything both her vocal skills and emotional range have blossomed in this fabulous recording. For a reality check I listened to a variety of woman singers of both baroque and classical music and Cecilia is in another class altogether. The booklet that came with this release is very informative and somewhat morbid. It is not light reading! Altogether a very special monument to both the music and the art of singing, à la castrati. Yes I am very opinionated

woodsyi · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Feb 2010, 05:10 pm »

Yes, Shep.

Bartoli is good on this recording. It sounds like she has your number. I too have a Diva whose voice just melts my heart. She is not really famous or have had a great career but something in the voice makes my knees week.

I have listened to the Last Castrato (Vatican recording of Moreschi) and countertenors in Altus and find something lacking. I know that countertenors are supposed to be modal but I find them lacking in power and emotion -- like it's really a falsetto voice. Cecilia, on the other hand, sings with passion all the way. I am just wondering if a Farinelli could have had the full control of the contralto voice with timber and richness to convey emotions like the great tenors of our time. That would have been something.

shep · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Feb 2010, 05:35 pm »

Thanks Woodsyi, I was wondering if my little opinion had been ignored. I hate talking about or recommending music that I love. (especially if no one pays attention

) You sure hit it on the nail; she has my number! When she goes down, down into that smokey alto I get jellified! Tell me about yours... I'm open-minded. ps; If you remember, Farinelli in the movie was actually sung by Bartoli, with some sonic tweaking.

andyr · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Feb 2010, 08:35 am »

Quote from: woodsyi on 1 Feb 2010, 05:10 pm

Yes, Shep.

Bartoli is good on this recording. It sounds like she has your number. I too have a Diva whose voice just melts my heart. She is not really famous or have had a great career but something in the voice makes my knees week.

I have listened to the Last Castrato (Vatican recording of Moreschi) and countertenors in Altus and find something lacking. I know that countertenors are supposed to be modal but I find them lacking in power and emotion -- like it's really a falsetto voice. Cecilia, on the other hand, sings with passion all the way. I am just wondering if a Farinelli could have had the full control of the contralto voice with timber and richness to convey emotions like the great tenors of our time. That would have been something.

So who is your heart-melting diva, woodsyi?

If she's not really famous or had a great career, it can't be that 50s English contralto (sorry, momentarily forget her name!

) ... so it must be your wife, eh?

I have a track of Moreschi singing Gounod's "Ave Maria", recorded in 1904. It's part of the 2-LP boxed set "A Voice to Remember" which was a 75th Anniversary release by EMI (EMSP75). A fascinating collection, narrated by the delightfully plummy English voice of Alistair Cooke.

Just ordered the Bartoli yesterday (before I knew of this thread)!

Regards,

Andy

shep · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Feb 2010, 09:05 am »

You thinking of Janet Baker? You're in for a treat with this Bartoli cd.

andyr · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Feb 2010, 09:20 am »

Quote from: shep on 2 Feb 2010, 09:05 am

You thinking of Janet Baker? You're in for a treat with this Bartoli cd.

Nono, shep - not Janet baby.

Her voice is lovely but this other English voice was deeper - maybe she was from the 50s? Wish I could remember the name. I had (or I thought I had!) one record by her but I can't find it.

Regards,

Andy