Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations

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DannyBadorine

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Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« on: 19 Jul 2022, 07:27 am »
I need more power for my passive subwoofer.  It is a sealed design with 10" Dayton woofer (8ohms and rated at 350 watts RMS).  I am currently running a Parasound 2125 in bridge mode (which claims 400 watts @8 ohms).  It sounds good but I need more power.  Budget is $500-$1,500.  I am looking at potentially using a Class D amplifier.  The PS Audio M1200 looks great for the situation but might be slightly out of budget and they're only sold in pairs. Does anyone have experience with Peachtree Audio stuff?  Any other recommendations?  I need 500-800 watts @ 8 ohms.  Thanks in advance.

Photon46

Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #1 on: 19 Jul 2022, 10:29 am »
Perhaps consider a used Mivera IcePower AS1200as2 amplifier. They use the two channel version of the IcePower modules PS Audio uses in their mono AS1200 amps. I have both a Mivera AS1200as2 amp with all Furutech wiring and connectors and the PS Audio M1200 amps and they're both excellent amplifiers at their respective price points. Bass reproduction is a strong point. Go to over to HiFiShark.com and use their search engine, there are Mivera amps for sale now.

JLM

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #2 on: 19 Jul 2022, 12:03 pm »
Question your need for more power and how you came to the conclusion of needing 500-800 watts.  Keep in mind that doubling the power to 800 watts would only add 3 dB and going from 400 to 500 watts would produce less than 1 dB (imperceptible) increase in output.  Running double the rated load on the driver could result in burning out the voice coil.  If somehow you "need" more bass output, recommend buying another subwoofer.  But first suggest measuring the room using REW or Dirac.  Rooms inherently have bass peaks and dips that can easily reach 30 dB.  Multiple subwoofers (3 or 4) set up in the corners or mid way along each wall is the best way to address the peaks/dips.  Refer to Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" (either edition).

Tyson

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #3 on: 19 Jul 2022, 02:46 pm »
I'd go with a Crown amp, tons of power and grip, rugged build quality and only moderately expensive.  It's not a great amp for mids/highs, but it just fine for bass.

jjss49

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #4 on: 19 Jul 2022, 02:56 pm »
op

older wyred4sound st series icepower class d amps would fit the bill - very powerful, dead quiet and immense bass control and grip, super impressive

i have a couple of st250's which can be mono'd but there are also st500 models even more power (doubt it would be needed), if interested, pm me, though i am not actively trying to sell these, i am not using these currently and can part with them

https://wyred4sound.com/sites/default/files/ST_SERIES_MANUAL_v2.1.pdf

https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=34901

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue39/wyred4sound.htm

Early B.

Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #5 on: 19 Jul 2022, 03:03 pm »
Question your need for more power and how you came to the conclusion of needing 500-800 watts.

Yeah, doesn't make sense. Your Parasound should provide more than enough power for a 10" subwoofer. How big is your room? Nonetheless, for your budget, you can replace your sub with one or two used 15" powered subwoofers.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #6 on: 19 Jul 2022, 03:19 pm »
Agree with Early and JLM, get a new sub.  For $1500 you could get a much better sounding, more powerful and bigger sub. Or buy 2 subs.  I also agree about the Parasound.  It should have more than enough power to drive that sub.

https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-3000

https://www.hsuresearch.com/subwoofers.html

artur9

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #7 on: 19 Jul 2022, 03:28 pm »
Definitely measure with REW or similar.  Often correct bass sounds lean.

I have several passive amps.  I've used Schiit Vidar, Episode, manufacturer's amp, Art SLA1 to power them.

Currently using the Episode and would consider Buckeye Amps if I needed more power.

WGH

Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #8 on: 19 Jul 2022, 04:44 pm »
Something is wrong here, maybe you are sitting in a null or the phase is wrong. Or the Dayton is just a crappy driver for a sub. Or your cavernous space is too big for a 10" driver.
How big is your listening room anyway?

I use a REL Gibraltar G2 sub which has a 10" long throw carbon fiber driver and a 450w high current class AB plate amp. My room is 326 sq.ft./2608 cu. ft. and that little sub completely fills the room with tight bass down to 18 Hz. I use the sub for both stereo and home theater and the dramatic scenes can make the sofa vibrate. Crossover is at 30 Hz and the volume is at about 1/3.

The current REL Gibraltar G1 MkII with the 12" driver has over 2” of stroke only has a 600w amp and is capable of 112 dB output at 15 Hz.

That Parasound 2125 should be bottoming out that driver. What is your crossover arrangement? How many volts go the the Parasound - 2v-8v? Maybe the volume is too low.

DannyBadorine

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #9 on: 19 Jul 2022, 08:50 pm »
Question your need for more power and how you came to the conclusion of needing 500-800 watts.  Keep in mind that doubling the power to 800 watts would only add 3 dB and going from 400 to 500 watts would produce less than 1 dB (imperceptible) increase in output.  Running double the rated load on the driver could result in burning out the voice coil.  If somehow you "need" more bass output, recommend buying another subwoofer.  But first suggest measuring the room using REW or Dirac.  Rooms inherently have bass peaks and dips that can easily reach 30 dB.  Multiple subwoofers (3 or 4) set up in the corners or mid way along each wall is the best way to address the peaks/dips.  Refer to Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" (either edition).

As you probably know, amplifier power ratings can be apples and oranges.  While I like the Parasound I'm using, it seems like it is a light 400 watts.  A 3db increase is probably about as much as I want and I think the 500-800 watts is what this speaker needs so that I will have the proper headroom to drive it.  I use REW and Smaart and have already created the frequency response in the room that I would like.  I am not a fan of increasing the number of subs in small rooms because the flattening of the frequency response is often a deficit in the phase response, plus my wife doesn't want more speakers in there.  I respect Toole and I think there are times when more subs is a good thing, but I often think it sacrifices punch for flatter frequency response and I would prefer to continue using the DSP that I have. 

DannyBadorine

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #10 on: 19 Jul 2022, 08:52 pm »
I'd go with a Crown amp, tons of power and grip, rugged build quality and only moderately expensive.  It's not a great amp for mids/highs, but it just fine for bass.

I've used Crown amps for years at live shows.  I think their less expensive stuff would work great but they don't have a 12-volt trigger in.  I have an Edison outlet with 12-volt trigger that I haven't tested yet but it might be the solution I need with a Crown amp.

DannyBadorine

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #11 on: 19 Jul 2022, 08:53 pm »
Yeah, doesn't make sense. Your Parasound should provide more than enough power for a 10" subwoofer. How big is your room? Nonetheless, for your budget, you can replace your sub with one or two used 15" powered subwoofers.

The reason it needs more power is that it is a sealed sub.  It takes a lot more headroom to drive it. 

DannyBadorine

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #12 on: 19 Jul 2022, 09:02 pm »
Something is wrong here, maybe you are sitting in a null or the phase is wrong. Or the Dayton is just a crappy driver for a sub. Or your cavernous space is too big for a 10" driver.
How big is your listening room anyway?

I use a REL Gibraltar G2 sub which has a 10" long throw carbon fiber driver and a 450w high current class AB plate amp. My room is 326 sq.ft./2608 cu. ft. and that little sub completely fills the room with tight bass down to 18 Hz. I use the sub for both stereo and home theater and the dramatic scenes can make the sofa vibrate. Crossover is at 30 Hz and the volume is at about 1/3.

The current REL Gibraltar G1 MkII with the 12" driver has over 2” of stroke only has a 600w amp and is capable of 112 dB output at 15 Hz.

That Parasound 2125 should be bottoming out that driver. What is your crossover arrangement? How many volts go the the Parasound - 2v-8v? Maybe the volume is too low.

Phase is correct in my system.  I am pretty fluent with tuning systems. There is minimal EQ, but it's mostly around 40Hz since the that's the big peak.  I'm also boosting below 40Hz because it's a sealed enclosure.  The room is a small living room but extends into the kitchen so its probably 400 sq. ft.  The Parasound drives the sub fine if I turn up the sub out from my Parasound New Classic 200 preamp.  It doesn't bottom out the sub and the driver is actually far better than I expected.  But the sub is sealed so it takes a lot more power.  I think that subs sound better when driven at 8 ohms with a lot of headroom from the amplifier.  My current crossover is at 60Hz with a MiniDSP, which I moved the voltage rails on to send more signal into the amplifier.  I think the Parasound Preamp that I'm using is light on the sub output but I also think that amplifier is a light 400 watts into 8 ohms.  I also just want to try something different.

DannyBadorine

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #13 on: 19 Jul 2022, 09:09 pm »
Perhaps consider a used Mivera IcePower AS1200as2 amplifier. They use the two channel version of the IcePower modules PS Audio uses in their mono AS1200 amps. I have both a Mivera AS1200as2 amp with all Furutech wiring and connectors and the PS Audio M1200 amps and they're both excellent amplifiers at their respective price points. Bass reproduction is a strong point. Go to over to HiFiShark.com and use their search engine, there are Mivera amps for sale now.

This is excellent.  Thank you

charmerci

Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #14 on: 20 Jul 2022, 03:11 am »
I'll join the chorus of you needing another sub. I had a 12" dual sealed sub in a large room with a "measely" 250 watts and wow! I kept it's volume below "half" and it certainly could shake and rattle my place given the proper content.

Early B.

Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #15 on: 20 Jul 2022, 04:25 am »
The room is a small living room but extends into the kitchen so its probably 400 sq. ft. 

Bam! This is your problem. You can throw a million watts at that sub and it won't matter. A single 10" sub for the area you need to pressurize is only slightly better than having no sub at all. Two 15" subs would be a good starting point.     

DannyBadorine

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #16 on: 20 Jul 2022, 07:44 am »
While I appreciate the thoughts, the room does not need another sub and there isn't space to add one.  The problem that I'm finding is in the way that the amplifier drives the sealed enclosure.  One sub is plenty for the room and I'm not a fan of adding subs unless they can be placed in the room wherever the phase problems are minimal and that is not the case here.  My wife doesn't want more speakers and I know that I don't need another sub.  I just want to try a more powerful amplifier, specifically a class D amplifier (due to efficiency) to see if I like the results better because I know that headroom is important for driving low frequencies.
Additionally, I understand that you may have a lower powered sub for your living room and it rocks the house, but it is likely a ported enclosure, which requires a lot less power to do so.  Plus, the way that wattage is measured can be drastically different from amplifier to amplifier so we are often comparing apples to oranges.   Plus, we might be listening to different music and utilizing a different amount of low end.  I listen to everything from jazz to hip-hop and metal.  I also use this system for movies and enjoy the low end being louder than most people (after it's properly EQ'd). So I'm really just looking for a Class D amplifier that is rated at a higher wattage than my current amplifier (not sure if it will actually deliver more power in this situation but that's the hope).

Yog Sothoth

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #17 on: 20 Jul 2022, 01:04 pm »
While I appreciate the thoughts, the room does not need another sub and there isn't space to add one.  The problem that I'm finding is in the way that the amplifier drives the sealed enclosure.  One sub is plenty for the room and I'm not a fan of adding subs unless they can be placed in the room wherever the phase problems are minimal and that is not the case here.  My wife doesn't want more speakers and I know that I don't need another sub.  I just want to try a more powerful amplifier, specifically a class D amplifier (due to efficiency) to see if I like the results better because I know that headroom is important for driving low frequencies.
Additionally, I understand that you may have a lower powered sub for your living room and it rocks the house, but it is likely a ported enclosure, which requires a lot less power to do so.  Plus, the way that wattage is measured can be drastically different from amplifier to amplifier so we are often comparing apples to oranges.   Plus, we might be listening to different music and utilizing a different amount of low end.  I listen to everything from jazz to hip-hop and metal.  I also use this system for movies and enjoy the low end being louder than most people (after it's properly EQ'd). So I'm really just looking for a Class D amplifier that is rated at a higher wattage than my current amplifier (not sure if it will actually deliver more power in this situation but that's the hope).

At the beginning of Jan '22 I bought a Nord One NC500DM MKII Dual Mono Stereo Amp.  They also have mono versions that might be perfect for a passive sealed sub (in fact, I have used one channel of mine  for my sealed 12" Subwoofer with a Dayton driver).  I'm very happy with the amplifier and have zero regrets in getting it.  The amp has choices of discreet op amp input buffers that are user changeable.

Colin at Nord Acoustics is also very helpful and pleasant to work with.

They might have an offering in your price range that could potentially work well for you.

Early B.

Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #18 on: 20 Jul 2022, 01:45 pm »
While I appreciate the thoughts, the room does not need another sub and there isn't space to add one.  The problem that I'm finding is in the way that the amplifier drives the sealed enclosure.  One sub is plenty for the room and I'm not a fan of adding subs unless they can be placed in the room wherever the phase problems are minimal and that is not the case here.  My wife doesn't want more speakers and I know that I don't need another sub.  I just want to try a more powerful amplifier, specifically a class D amplifier (due to efficiency) to see if I like the results better because I know that headroom is important for driving low frequencies.
Additionally, I understand that you may have a lower powered sub for your living room and it rocks the house, but it is likely a ported enclosure, which requires a lot less power to do so.  Plus, the way that wattage is measured can be drastically different from amplifier to amplifier so we are often comparing apples to oranges.   Plus, we might be listening to different music and utilizing a different amount of low end.  I listen to everything from jazz to hip-hop and metal.  I also use this system for movies and enjoy the low end being louder than most people (after it's properly EQ'd). So I'm really just looking for a Class D amplifier that is rated at a higher wattage than my current amplifier (not sure if it will actually deliver more power in this situation but that's the hope).

Since you already have a Dayton woofer, pair it with a 1,200-watt Dayton Audio Class D amplifier with DSP: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-APA1200DSP-1200-watt-Power-Amplifier-with-Integrated-Digital-Signal-Processing-300-1000







Yog Sothoth

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Re: Medium/High Power amplifier recommendations
« Reply #19 on: 20 Jul 2022, 02:00 pm »
For the objectivists among you, the Dayton Audio APA1200DSP Review (DSP Amplifier) was measured on ASR near the end of last year.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/dayton-audio-apa1200dsp-review-dsp-amplifier.28264/