AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: rockdrummer on 19 Dec 2012, 02:40 pm
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Hi everyone! Hope your winter Holiday Season is going nicely! I am well on my way into my second GR build. I have pieces cut for XLS Encore and a sealed servo. These are for my younger brother. When talking about his budget and music taste combined with his probable listening space, the bookshelf on stands were his choice.
Here is a cell phone picture of the stand. I have added more and there will be bondo and sanding to seal cracks and smooth over areas, but this is the start. Not recognizable yet, but I'm sure after I can take more pictures of late last night's progress, many will recognize it. Just a taste.
My parents are absolutely in love with the AV 1's they took possesion of last month. Kudos, again to you you, Danny.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=72497)
Ben
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Here is a crude attempt at a custom speaker stand. Yes there will be a top. It will have long trim screws going through the top wings, which will also be screwed into the main structure. I am planning on using bondo all over the place to cover seams and cracks.
I went ahead with this without asking advice, and after doing this, I think I will have wanted to make the tippy tops a bit bigger. We shall see.
The other will be a version of Barad dur, the tower the eye resides in. So, advice and critiques are very much welcomed and encouraged. Thanks for looking.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=72524)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=72525)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=72527)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=72528)
There it is. Stand part one. Now do I suggest to my brother that this is the left or the right? hmmm
Oh, and it is solid mdf. Heavy as heck.
Thanks again.
ben
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Very cool looking!
Can hardly wait to see more pics.
The only thing I would of suggested would of been to buy a 1/2 sheet of 1/4"
MDF and covered the ends of the towers spines with a piece, that way you wouldnt
have to deal with mending all the seems where the 3 laminated end. You could still
do it and save a lot of work, you only ave to deal with 2 small edges then.
I made a couple of subs a few years back and used bondo. The problem is the bondo
is harder tan the mdf so if you have to do a bunch of sanding you have to be careful
not to oversand or the bondo will be raised from the mdf.
In the same Isle as bondo youll find glazing putty.....usually in tubes or small tins.
this stuff you dont have to mix and sands much easier than bondo, almost like wood filler.
I've used this with good success filling seams.
Your brother is a lucky guy, keep up the great work.
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In the same Isle as bondo youll find glazing putty.....usually in tubes or small tins.
this stuff you dont have to mix and sands much easier than bondo, almost like wood filler.
I've used this with good success filling seams.
Yup, I've had good success with both glazing putty and wood filler as well.
Looking good !
-jay
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Okay, wow it has been a while. Over the winter I couldn't work much in the garage. Then in the spring we were selling our house and we all know kids and cleaning would probably be time consuming. Moved into the inlaws and needless to say, quite an ordeal. Anyway, finally got something done.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84386)
Got woofer holes cut. Need to roundover the backside yet.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84387)
I learned doing my first project on my first cutout when i got done the router skipped when the cutout came loose and marked the edge of the circle. So for anyone starting their first build be sure to secure both the cutout and the baffle.
Hope to get something else done soon.
Thanks for reading.
Ben
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A rockdrummer living with the girlfriend's/wife's parents? Been there, done that :icon_lol:! Also a drummer, bdp24 refers to my preferred vintage wrap and kick drum diameter. Drummer joke... Q: What do you call an unemployed drummer? A: A drummer.
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Very cool looking!
Can hardly wait to see more pics.
The only thing I would of suggested would of been to buy a 1/2 sheet of 1/4"
MDF and covered the ends of the towers spines with a piece, that way you wouldnt
have to deal with mending all the seems where the 3 laminated end. You could still
do it and save a lot of work, you only ave to deal with 2 small edges then.
I made a couple of subs a few years back and used bondo. The problem is the bondo
is harder tan the mdf so if you have to do a bunch of sanding you have to be careful
not to oversand or the bondo will be raised from the mdf.
In the same Isle as bondo youll find glazing putty.....usually in tubes or small tins.
this stuff you dont have to mix and sands much easier than bondo, almost like wood filler.
I've used this with good success filling seams.
Your brother is a lucky guy, keep up the great work.
The pics of your incredible Super-V build and follow-up tips lead me to the glazing putty of which you speak. It's made by Bondo, and I found it at Auto Zone, about nine bucks for the large tube. It's the red color stuff seen in the pics.
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Bdp24, I always wanted to try a 24 but never did. What do the letters stand for?
Just finished directing the pit orchestra in local production of Children of Eden. Percussionist was set up right in front of me and i loved his vintage ludwig sound!
Ben
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Black Diamond Pearl. I like the 50's-60's Ludwig sound (3-ply shells, Maple/Poplar/Mahogany, 35 degree bearing edges, reinforcing rings, chrome/nickel over brass hoops) a lot myself.
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Can't believe this. Measured wrong and the whole tweeter is off more than 1/8th of an inch to the right. Now what? I have no table saw to cut a new front baffle. I have been so careful too. So frustrating. I cant let it go because it will not have a grill and they arent for me. Ugg
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85228)
Ben
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Well, if you don't have access to the saw... could always go to HD and buy a 2' x 2' piece of 3/4" MDF and have them cut it to the correct size, just be sure to stress the importance of the correct dimension. If you don't trust them.. you could always have them cut it close then take your measurements off one side and either the top or bottom for the cut outs. Then when you glue it on, make sure those same edges are aligned properly to the cabinet and trim the excess off with a flsuh trim bit
-jay
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Can't believe this. Measured wrong and the whole tweeter is off more than 1/8th of an inch to the right. Now what?
Have you cut the other one yet? Some speakers have mirrored offset tweeters to reduce baffle edge diffraction effects. An 1/8" isn't enough to have much of any effect, but you could cut the other one 1/8" off in the other direction!
Being only that tiny amount off-center, it will probably just look wrong, but you could point to it's mirror image mate and swear it was by careful precision acoustic design! ;)
Steve
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Have you cut the other one yet? Some speakers have mirrored offset tweeters to reduce baffle edge diffraction effects. An 1/8" isn't enough to have much of any effect, but you could cut the other one 1/8" off in the other direction!
Being only that tiny amount off-center, it will probably just look wrong, but you could point to it's mirror image mate and swear it was by careful precision acoustic design! ;)
Steve
There you go ! Easier than getting another baffle cut :thumb:
-jay
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Great idea Steve, but sadly, i did cut the other one already. I send a picture to by brother to see what he thinks. I may just look to use a saw as i have the other stand to do next. I just wanted to get the speakers and sub to him, pronto!
Ben
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If it doesn't affect the sound quality than with grills on it will never be noticed.
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I would just take that one to HD and have them copy it. I'm sure they can do that without messing it up.
Greg
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Can't you make the cuts with your router and a straight edge? :scratch: If all else fails, PM me and I will make you one and send it.
Larry
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Can't you make the cuts with your router and a straight edge? :scratch: If all else fails, PM me and I will make you one and send it.
Larry
Or rough cut it with any type of saw (circular saw, jig saw, etc) and use a pattern cutting bit in your router using the other baffle as a template.
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Wow, Larry, very nice of you. I will see what happens, I may have a neighbor that can borrow me a boxed up table saw. So that may be enough to get another piece cut. I should see if I can set something up using the router and a straight edge because that is probably how I need to make the amp cut-out for the sealed sub per Danny's plans on the GR website.
I sent my brother the picture and he says he doesn't care but I think it stands out and will eventually be an eyesore to anyone who knows about it :lol:
Ben
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I sent my brother the picture and he says he doesn't care but I think it stands out and will eventually be an eyesore to anyone who knows about it :lol:
Ben
Ben,
You hit the nail on the head. Knowing about it is the thing. I can see all the flaws in something I built while someone else wouldn't notice unless I pointed it out to them.
Mike
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For some reason I'm thinking you may be close to me....
maybe a post I read??
I'm just outside, about 1/2hr east, of Edmonton.
If so let me know, I may be able to help you out with
a new baffle. I've done a little Diy on cabinets.
I'm out of town till next week, let me know.
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PDR, I am in Minneapolis.
Quite a place here with so many people who are so willing to help. I couldn't be doing this fun hobby without Danny's top notch product and customer service and the huge support system for noobs like me. Thanks everyone.
I probably won't get to it until tonight or tomorrow at the earliest, but i think i will start over with a fresh baffle.
Ben
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Hi everyone from a very cold MN! I am slowly working through building the remaining stand, I need to round over the back woofer hole of my fixed front baffle. This cold weather makes that impossible! hahaha
I have all pieces cut, minus the cutout for the amp in the back of the sub. I need to round-over the braces with circle cutouts inside the sealed sub. Do I round over the back of the front baffle too?
I also plan to use some trim screws to go in from the side, top and or bottom for the braces. And maybe even around the front and back baffles too. I know the pieces are pretty close, but the precise fit won't be there so this will make it rock solid. I will either use the glazing putty? stuff mentioned or some other sandable and paintable putty to fill in around the sub and xls cabinets and also the stands.
Anyway, looking forward to posting some pics if I can get to work soon, weather permitting.
Have a great week.
Ben Young
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92909)
There is a pic of the stands. One on the left is mostly finished. Will be drawing up the top of that stand to get started with the last stage. Heavy. Both stands are solid. I want my brother to order decent spikes for both the stands and the speakers on top of them.
Sorry that picture is pretty bad.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92912)
Current state of the sub. I need to sand a bit to get a couple pieces to fit nicely. I also will need measure for the amp cutout yet.
Thanks for looking.
Ben
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93001)
A couple more additions to the sub. After I measure and get the amp cutout made, I will sand the whole thing to cut down a couple high spots in butt joints. I got an Elmer's product, wood filler to put over and around where needed to seal/cover all the joints.
I will round over the sharp corners just a little and then prime and paint. Same for the speaker stands and xls encore cabinets.
I was planning to use a spray-on primer and final paint. I just used a basic Krylon satin black for my first speaker project. Not sure what to use this time.
Thanks again for looking.
Ben
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So here I am. Planned the entire weekend to work at my brothers place to finish his speakers, stands and sub. Lots of progress and I will post pics but I am going to wire up the xls crossovers and I don't know where the heat shrink goes, if any on the boards. Do I only put it on the driver end of the ofc?
Thanks
Ben
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Ben,
Check out this thread.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=83325.0
Scroll down to Reply #15
Mike
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Thanks Mike.
I wasn't sure if I should find a way to put it near the board.
Here is a pic of the sub amp cutout.
Ben
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97396)
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Xls encore ready for primer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97391)
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Stand one. Stand two is not painted uet.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97397)
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Here are a few more pictures the encores. Cant wait to hear them. I used elmers wood filler. Great for the small cracks but when sanding got near the ends of the mdf it didnt seal.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97414)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97413)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97415)
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Wicked cool looking stand! For spikes, Parts Express has some really good ones. There is a Dayton model that is long and thin (1/2" diameter X 1-3/8" long, with 6mm threaded studs and inserts) in satin black, and another that is the same diameter but shorter.
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Very nice Ben, your brother is going to be thrilled !!
I'd imagine they are going to sound great together, keep us posted
-jay
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Not particularly happy with how this stand is turning out. I think the flat black will help.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97418)
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So here I am. Planned the entire weekend to work at my brothers place to finish his speakers, stands and sub. Lots of progress and I will post pics but I am going to wire up the xls crossovers and I don't know where the heat shrink goes, if any on the boards. Do I only put it on the driver end of the ofc?
Thanks
Ben
Terminal connections of the tweeter, woofer, and binding post cups.
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Hi everyone. Do I need to do anything specific like sealing, etc around the amp cutout? I am thinking heat related.
Here are a couple sub pictures.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97629)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97630)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97631)
Thanks for looking. Of course any advice or feedback is encouraged!
Ben
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I forgot to mention I have the outer front baffle left to glue on. And using screws to anchor both sides and the top and bottom to the braces inside. Is that overkill or will that help any way?
Ben
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Some sub pics and the wood filler I used.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98634)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98633)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98632)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98631)
Thanks for looking.
Ben
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=109208)
Sent the last speaker stand to my brother a couple weeks ago.
It has been a while but one step left. Paint the sub.
Would anyone have advice about painting in my cold garage, with a small heater it is around 50 or 60 degrees or in my mechanical room? Leaning towards the garage.
Ben
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=109208)
Sent the last speaker stand to my brother a couple weeks ago.
It has been a while but one step left. Paint the sub.
Would anyone have advice about painting in my cold garage, with a small heater it is around 50 or 60 degrees or in my mechanical room? Leaning towards the garage.
Ben
What type of paint are you using?
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Oh gosh, no I am not sure. Either Krylon or Rustolium flat black primer plus paint.
I was skeptical of filling my basement with spraypaint fumes.
Ben
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If you do it outside in the cool (garage), spray a test board first and make sure you have no advrse effects. I'd think you will be ok , but it is probably going to dry slooooowly which may/may not effect your 2nd coat
-jay
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Oh gosh, no I am not sure. Either Krylon or Rustolium flat black primer plus paint.
I was skeptical of filling my basement with spraypaint fumes.
Ben
When painting in cool temps, I like to preheat both the paint surface, and the paint before applying.
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Thanks guys. I have set a goal for between now and Sunday, to get this sub painted and assembled.
Then I get the treat of having my first servo experience!!!
Have a good Thanksgiving everyone.
Ben
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Hello, it is up and running. I still have lots to learn and tweak as far as settings go. It was surprisingly quiet. I had the gain below half at first and with the receiver volume set at about where I watch tv it wasn't even playing. So I went to half and it was moving but quiet. Up to about 3/4 gain on the sub amp and music turned up a bit and it was clearly putting out some nice bass.
I checked the AVR settings and I need to recheck that because there may be something that needs to be changed there.
I was assuming there would be lots more output though. For now, it looks like I need to keep the gain way up to match the output of the other sub i had. For sealed sub owners, where do you have the gain and what did you first experience with yours?
Heavy beast. Off to my brother in about 2 weeks. He is excited.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110409)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110411)
Ben
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Hello, it is up and running. I still have lots to learn and tweak as far as settings go. It was surprisingly quiet. I had the gain below half at first and with the receiver volume set at about where I watch tv it wasn't even playing. So I went to half and it was moving but quiet. Up to about 3/4 gain on the sub amp and music turned up a bit and it was clearly putting out some nice bass.
I checked the AVR settings and I need to recheck that because there may be something that needs to be changed there.
I was assuming there would be lots more output though. For now, it looks like I need to keep the gain way up to match the output of the other sub i had. For sealed sub owners, where do you have the gain and what did you first experience with yours?
Heavy beast. Off to my brother in about 2 weeks. He is excited.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110409)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110411)
Ben
It's all a matter of output level verses input sensitivity. You can put a Y adapter on the two inputs (left and right) and use both inputs to increase the input sensitivity and thus have more output per a given setting.
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Also, make sure the speaker level setting for the sub in your AVR is not set to something like -12dB. That could cause you to have to have the gain on the sub way up. Even if your AVR's room correction set the sub this low (Audyssey did this to me) you may not want to leave it there. I kept running the set up program over and over with different gain positions on the sub's plate amp until Audyssey had the sub's level around -3dB.
One point about these direct servo subs. I have a sealed 12" and most of the time with music I cannot tell it is playing unless I go over right up next to it, or switch it off. With movie sound effects it is a different story. When the couch and walls start shaking it is a pretty good indication the sub is working :thumb:.
Mike
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"One point about these direct servo subs. I have a sealed 12" and most of the time with music I cannot tell it is playing unless I go over right up next to it, or switch it off. With movie sound effects it is a different story. When the couch and walls start shaking it is a pretty good indication the sub is working :thumb:.
Mike"
Mike,
My F12G used to have the same setting (nearly unnoticeable with music) until an audiophile buddy came for a visit. He suggested my sub was set too low, so I increased the gain/volume. In HT the sub is incredible! Too my relatively inexperienced ears there's now a tad too much bass with music, but that may be because I only had monitors for so many years. :scratch:
I'm really glad I bought this sub.
Michael
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The funny thing is that the servo controlled subs lack something that most people associate with a sub-woofer. They miss the "boom" that they are used to. The boom of overshoot and stored energy that lingers on after each note no longer exists. Now they hear the music only.
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Now - here's a 'real' pair of sub woofers :icon_lol:
I couldn't resist :green:
(http://i.imgur.com/T4NEqqIl.jpg)
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:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Mike
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"One point about these direct servo subs. I have a sealed 12" and most of the time with music I cannot tell it is playing unless I go over right up next to it, or switch it off. With movie sound effects it is a different story. When the couch and walls start shaking it is a pretty good indication the sub is working :thumb:.
Mike"
Mike,
My F12G used to have the same setting (nearly unnoticeable with music) until an audiophile buddy came for a visit. He suggested my sub was set too low, so I increased the gain/volume. In HT the sub is incredible! Too my relatively inexperienced ears there's now a tad too much bass with music, but that may be because I only had monitors for so many years. :scratch:
I'm really glad I bought this sub.
Michael
Michael,
To me unnoticeable with music is a good thing. My F12 blends so well with the N3s you can't pick it out. Like Danny said, no boom or over run, just one coherent soundstage from sub 20Hz to 20K Hz. I have tried running the sub hotter and didn't like it so I turned it back down.
All that and still more than enough punch for sound effects. As an added bonus, you can actually understand the dialogue after the explosion.
Mike
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Hello, it is up and running. I still have lots to learn and tweak as far as settings go. It was surprisingly quiet. I had the gain below half at first and with the receiver volume set at about where I watch tv it wasn't even playing. So I went to half and it was moving but quiet. Up to about 3/4 gain on the sub amp and music turned up a bit and it was clearly putting out some nice bass.
I checked the AVR settings and I need to recheck that because there may be something that needs to be changed there.
I was assuming there would be lots more output though. For now, it looks like I need to keep the gain way up to match the output of the other sub i had. For sealed sub owners, where do you have the gain and what did you first experience with yours?
Heavy beast. Off to my brother in about 2 weeks. He is excited.
Ben
Mine needed a few hours to break in before reaching full potential. It was oddly quiet at first but gradually got louder until it was able to shake the walls.
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The funny thing is that the servo controlled subs lack something that most people associate with a sub-woofer. They miss the "boom" that they are used to. The boom of overshoot and stored energy that lingers on after each note no longer exists. Now they hear the music only.
One of its bst features :thumb:
And it's speed/accuracy which are actually directly related to the above
Mine needed a few hours to break in before reaching full potential. It was oddly quiet at first but gradually got louder until it was able to shake the walls.
Both my H-frmes were the same way, as they broke in I turned the gain down significantly
-jay
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Okay, I need to finish up with this thread.
After several days with this sub, I have learned several things. One, is I have quite a learning curve every time I add a new piece of gear. When I first listened to the pair of AV series bookshelves I built for my parents, I had a "personal break in period". Going from the metal dome tweeter in my definitive technology speakers to the silk dome required some time. My ears, and brain, needed the same time with this sub.
Danny summed up my situation. I went from a sunfire sub, to a servo sub. There was definitely extra boom in the sunfire.
I sold it a couple weeks ago so I couldn't do an A-B test.
Steve Earle's "I'll never make it out of this world alive" has some great articulate bass and some floor tom parts that I knew were there, but I heard in effortless detail with the servo.
Harry Connick Jr.'s Christmas album "When my heart finds Christmas" also has lots of upright bass. And wow, listening to bass players is so much more interesting when you hear everything they play. My sunfire clearly couldn't play notes higher in the instruments register when they would play those walking bass lines. But the servo did.
The Wallflower's "God don't make lonely girls". I love that song, and the kick drum had some real character through the servo.
I didn't use this for home theater much at all, but in Saving Private Ryan, towards the end when Tom Hanks and company are waiting for the final battle, the tank that they hear off in the distance was so fun to listen to. Watched it 3 times. It was subtle but clear and created more of the experience probably intended by the sound engineers.
All in all, servo has blown my mind and I can't wait to hear OB servo bass! Someday, hopefully soon.
Thanks for all the build and finish advice everyone! I have learned so much in the last 4-5 years here and can't wait for my next project.
Ben
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My reaction exactly to servo bass. Like nothing I had heard before and it did take some getting used to but now I can't go back regular subs. They all sound boomy and forced to me now. Meanwhile my FV15HP is so clean and articulate, I can't wait to try OB servo next as well!