[witchdoctor]

So I read this review and I am shocked, saddened, and curious. The witchdoctor has been the only advocate of immersive sound and particularly the Auro -3D format in AC since 2017. I have been flamed, tarred and feathered, had my account restricted, and laughed at for the "heresy" of my experience by a bunch of members who had NEVER experienced it themselves in their own space. They just shut it down, bah, hum bug.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150038.0

Did you notice who started THIS thread? Yes, the witchdoctor did. I am genuinely excited that Bryston decided to get on the immersive train and with possibly the BEST partner in Storm Audio. Storm was previously owned by Auro 3D so believe me, they know immersive audio.
Now along comes this review which basically validates my experience and what happens? 0. Check this thread and the only reply I get from James about immersive audio is lukewarm at best.
Guys don't you GET it? You have possibly the BEST processor using the BEST format and in business that is known as a competitive advantage.
My Auro 3D ACTIVE home theater. If there are any others going immersive PLEASE post some pics OK?:

[Rod_S]

Let's not get carried away

I'm sure the Bryston/StormAudio unit is a good, or really good SSP but it falls short spec wise to the Trinnov Altitude32 platform when it comes to overall fidelity and even the Altitude16, Daatsat LS10 and Theta Casablanca. If you are only concerned with running movies through it then fine, the 48/24 limitation of the Bryston/Storm units are not a limitation at all but if you are running through high res music or concert Blu-rays with 96/24 sound tracks the SP4 down samples that to it's internal 48/24 resolution then it gets upsampled back at the DAC stage. Far from ideal.

I know there is talk of a Bryston module allowing for higher resolution in the future but I suspect that will be 2 channel only, possibly only a bypass module of sorts not allowing Dirac, post processing etc. to be applied at higher resolution. If the units go to 96/24 (192/24 highly unlikely) in the future I believe that has to be a change on the StormAudio end because Dirac needs to run at those resolutions as does everything else internally. Not a simple change at all.

The Trinnov on the other hand can handle 192/24 internally up to 24 channels I believe then 96/24 up to it's 32 channel count. OK sure, it's a lot more expensive so lets look elsewhere, the Altitude16 can run internally at 96/24 and the Datasat LS10 can do the same and both are much more comparable to the SP4 in price. At the moment I still haven't received confirmation of the internal resolution of the Emotiva RMC-1 which is also using Dirac. The Theta Casablanca can as well but it's very pricey like the Altitude32. If channel count is a big concern then these may not meet the needs of everyone because they are all capped at 16 channels unlike the Altitude32 and StormAudio's own SSP's. I'm not sure if Bryston is offering any of the StormAudio 32 channel units but even if they are all of the units are capped at 48/24.

I believe it's unclear presently if Dirac can even run at 192/24, well at least in SSP's which are all using DSP chips. I suspect it probably can on a PC though. What allows Trinnov to run their EQ at those resolutions it is it uses an Intel chip not a DSP.

If the Bryston/StormAudio units were doing 96/24 I would already own one as I don't currently or in the future see a need for more than 16 channels plus I can't afford even the Altitude32 8-16. There is no Datasat dealers even remotely near where I live so that's why I haven't gone that direction. Like with the Altitude32 I can't afford Theta's Casablanca and for some reason here in Canada the Altitude16 isn't much cheaper than the 32 8-16 which is unfortunate as I have a Trinnov retailer just up the street.

[gbaby]

Bryston is not embracing object based sound, but rather, it is accommodating those who like object based through the SP4.

[witchdoctor]

Bryston is not embracing object based sound, but rather, it is accommodating those who like object based through the SP4.

Object based? Auro-3D is channel based. The point in the review is that the majority of "object based" mixes in their current state stink. The producers feed the mix through an algorithm that decides what to pan to height channels. They have the ability to have engineers do an outstanding mix but just don't yet.
Auromatic let's you dial in the size of your room, the type of content you are watching, and how much you want to engage your height channels.
It's just better 

[witchdoctor]

Let's not get carried away

I'm sure the Bryston/StormAudio unit is a good, or really good SSP but it falls short spec wise to the Trinnov Altitude32 platform when it comes to overall fidelity and even the Altitude16, Daatsat LS10 and Theta Casablanca. If you are only concerned with running movies through it then fine, the 48/24 limitation of the Bryston/Storm units are not a limitation at all but if you are running through high res music or concert Blu-rays with 96/24 sound tracks the SP4 down samples that to it's internal 48/24 resolution then it gets upsampled back at the DAC stage. Far from ideal.

I know there is talk of a Bryston module allowing for higher resolution in the future but I suspect that will be 2 channel only, possibly only a bypass module of sorts not allowing Dirac, post processing etc. to be applied at higher resolution. If the units go to 96/24 (192/24 highly unlikely) in the future I believe that has to be a change on the StormAudio end because Dirac needs to run at those resolutions as does everything else internally. Not a simple change at all.

The Trinnov on the other hand can handle 192/24 internally up to 24 channels I believe then 96/24 up to it's 32 channel count. OK sure, it's a lot more expensive so lets look elsewhere, the Altitude16 can run internally at 96/24 and the Datasat LS10 can do the same and both are much more comparable to the SP4 in price. At the moment I still haven't received confirmation of the internal resolution of the Emotiva RMC-1 which is also using Dirac. The Theta Casablanca can as well but it's very pricey like the Altitude32. If channel count is a big concern then these may not meet the needs of everyone because they are all capped at 16 channels unlike the Altitude32 and StormAudio's own SSP's. I'm not sure if Bryston is offering any of the StormAudio 32 channel units but even if they are all of the units are capped at 48/24.

I believe it's unclear presently if Dirac can even run at 192/24, well at least in SSP's which are all using DSP chips. I suspect it probably can on a PC though. What allows Trinnov to run their EQ at those resolutions it is it uses an Intel chip not a DSP.

If the Bryston/StormAudio units were doing 96/24 I would already own one as I don't currently or in the future see a need for more than 16 channels plus I can't afford even the Altitude32 8-16. There is no Datasat dealers even remotely near where I live so that's why I haven't gone that direction. Like with the Altitude32 I can't afford Theta's Casablanca and for some reason here in Canada the Altitude16 isn't much cheaper than the 32 8-16 which is unfortunate as I have a Trinnov retailer just up the street.

This is why Bryston needs to leverage this review. Going head to head with datasat/trinnov what is bryton's BIGGEST competitive advantage? I suppose James can answer better than a witchdoctor but IMO it is brand recognition.
Next you have the Bryston product portfolio and customer base. I see datasat as primarily PRO gear with a side business for consumers: https://www.datasatdigital.com/company-overview/

and Trinnov as a one trick pony focused on custom installed home theaters. If I were a Bryton dealer I would get out the rolodex and start upselling/cross selling everyone who bought a bryston product in the last 20 years after e-mailing/mailing them that review. Next would be "movie night" in the store with an auro 3D demo coupled with a trade in/discount policy for customers who upgrade.

[witchdoctor]

Hi

Yes I have experimented with the immersive sound but I am old and antiquated so i still prefer a straight ahead Stereo perspective in my own system.

james

James, why not just stick to two channel marketing and hire a young buck to lead your immersive product sales?

[witchdoctor]

Video of the PMC/ Bryston SP4 demo at the Bristol Show, congrats on the award:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUytlzyhXaY

[Rooster19]

Let's not get carried away

I'm sure the Bryston/StormAudio unit is a good, or really good SSP but it falls short spec wise to the Trinnov Altitude32 platform when it comes to overall fidelity and even the Altitude16, Daatsat LS10 and Theta Casablanca. If you are only concerned with running movies through it then fine, the 48/24 limitation of the Bryston/Storm units are not a limitation at all but if you are running through high res music or concert Blu-rays with 96/24 sound tracks the SP4 down samples that to it's internal 48/24 resolution then it gets upsampled back at the DAC stage. Far from ideal.

I know there is talk of a Bryston module allowing for higher resolution in the future but I suspect that will be 2 channel only, possibly only a bypass module of sorts not allowing Dirac, post processing etc. to be applied at higher resolution. If the units go to 96/24 (192/24 highly unlikely) in the future I believe that has to be a change on the StormAudio end because Dirac needs to run at those resolutions as does everything else internally. Not a simple change at all.

The Trinnov on the other hand can handle 192/24 internally up to 24 channels I believe then 96/24 up to it's 32 channel count. OK sure, it's a lot more expensive so lets look elsewhere, the Altitude16 can run internally at 96/24 and the Datasat LS10 can do the same and both are much more comparable to the SP4 in price. At the moment I still haven't received confirmation of the internal resolution of the Emotiva RMC-1 which is also using Dirac. The Theta Casablanca can as well but it's very pricey like the Altitude32. If channel count is a big concern then these may not meet the needs of everyone because they are all capped at 16 channels unlike the Altitude32 and StormAudio's own SSP's. I'm not sure if Bryston is offering any of the StormAudio 32 channel units but even if they are all of the units are capped at 48/24.

I believe it's unclear presently if Dirac can even run at 192/24, well at least in SSP's which are all using DSP chips. I suspect it probably can on a PC though. What allows Trinnov to run their EQ at those resolutions it is it uses an Intel chip not a DSP.

If the Bryston/StormAudio units were doing 96/24 I would already own one as I don't currently or in the future see a need for more than 16 channels plus I can't afford even the Altitude32 8-16. There is no Datasat dealers even remotely near where I live so that's why I haven't gone that direction. Like with the Altitude32 I can't afford Theta's Casablanca and for some reason here in Canada the Altitude16 isn't much cheaper than the 32 8-16 which is unfortunate as I have a Trinnov retailer just up the street.

The RMC-1 has a long way to go before it should be considered by anyone. Its, at best, in beta stage.

[gbaby]

James, why not just stick to two channel marketing and hire a young buck to lead your immersive product sales?

Witchdoctor, I don't think you get it. Folks buying Bryston gear find "immersive sound" secondary. Most have full range speakers and are interested in two channel only. However, you need full range speakers for that. From photos you post of your own gear, I don't think you use full range speakers, but rather limited range speakers with possibly and 80Hz crossover frequency and a sub.

[witchdoctor]

Witchdoctor, I don't think you get it. Folks buying Bryston gear find "immersive sound" secondary. Most have full range speakers and are interested in two channel only. However, you need full range speakers for that. From photos you post of your own gear, I don't think you use full range speakers, but rather limited range speakers with possibly and 80Hz crossover frequency and a sub.

Gbaby, let me see, folks buying Bryston gear find "immersive sound" secondary. Then, Bryston puts out what is arguably the best immersive processor on the market??? 2 and 2 doesn't add up.
I am not affiliated with Bryston but I can make a wild guess that they are interested in NEW customers who ARE interested in immersive audio, what do you think? I am glad you checked out my gear, thank you! These are active speakers and reach much lower in bass extension than the passive version, here are the specs. I have tried crossing them over at 80hz but 40 hz sounds better in my room. When I run Audyssey it sets them at full range too. The active 40's actually go as low as the Bryston Middle T, even though they are about the size of a Mini T. The active 20 goes as low as the mini T even though it is about the size of the mini A :

http://www.cain.cainslair.com/Paradigm%20Reference%20Active%20Series%20Specifications.htm

[gbaby]

Gbaby, let me see, folks buying Bryston gear find "immersive sound" secondary. Then, Bryston puts out what is arguably the best immersive processor on the market??? 2 and 2 doesn't add up.
I am not affiliated with Bryston but I can make a wild guess that they are interested in NEW customers who ARE interested in immersive audio, what do you think? I am glad you checked out my gear, thank you! These are active speakers and reach much lower in bass extension than the passive version, here are the specs. I have tried crossing them over at 80hz but 40 hz sounds better in my room. When I run Audyssey it sets them at full range too. The active 40's actually go as low as the Bryston Middle T, even though they are about the size of a Mini T. The active 20 goes as low as the mini T even though it is about the size of the mini A :

http://www.cain.cainslair.com/Paradigm%20Reference%20Active%20Series%20Specifications.htm

I cannot speak for Bryston, but of course they want new customers. But, I stand by my original statement that the SP4 was an accommodation for folks who like object based and Auro or whatever the codec. But, its focus is two channel sound which is the reason the SP3 is still in the line up and which is still selling. The SP3 is a processor more configured for two channel music which by happenstance plays surround and the SP4 is a processor that is configured for movies buy will play music.

[witchdoctor]

I cannot speak for Bryston, but of course they want new customers. But, I stand by my original statement that the SP4 was an accommodation for folks who like object based and Auro or whatever the codec. But, its focus is two channel sound which is the reason the SP3 is still in the line up and which is still selling. The SP3 is a processor more configured for two channel music which by happenstance plays surround and the SP4 is a processor that is configured for movies buy will play music.

Gbaby if the SP3 floats your boat by all means go for it. I have not auditioned the SP4 so can't speak to it's two channel capabilities. If you haven't auditioned one either I suggest you don't have a clue to its capabilities, movies, music, or in between

[Rod_S]

The RMC-1 has a long way to go before it should be considered by anyone. Its, at best, in beta stage.

Ah interesting, I haven't been keeping up on it's progress but if it turns out that it's internally running at 96/24, once all of the bugs get worked out then it's a more capable SSP with respect to overall resolution preservation then the Storm/Bryston units. Of course teh Storm/Bryston units have the edge in channel counts offering greater than 16 channels but personally I would take resolution over channel counts above 16.

[Rod_S]

This is why Bryston needs to leverage this review. Going head to head with datasat/trinnov what is bryton's BIGGEST competitive advantage? I suppose James can answer better than a witchdoctor but IMO it is brand recognition.
Next you have the Bryston product portfolio and customer base. I see datasat as primarily PRO gear with a side business for consumers: https://www.datasatdigital.com/company-overview/

and Trinnov as a one trick pony focused on custom installed home theaters. If I were a Bryton dealer I would get out the rolodex and start upselling/cross selling everyone who bought a bryston product in the last 20 years after e-mailing/mailing them that review. Next would be "movie night" in the store with an auro 3D demo coupled with a trade in/discount policy for customers who upgrade.

Regardless how you view Datasat and Trinnov they both have products more capable then the Storm/Bryston units with respect to internal processing but yes you are most likely correct in terms of brand recognition, more people are probably familiar with the name Bryston then Datasat or Trinnov but the problem is even Bryston is in a niche market (high-end audio) and a lot of people to this day only associate the company with pro gear which is unfortunate.

As for dealers, I would be willing to bet that a good majority of them don' have a clue these Bryston units are limited to 48/24 internally, or even care and are more concerned with hitting over potential customers heads oh yeah it'll accept up to 192/24 which is true but with a huge caveat that they don't understand or for those that know the true workings of the units care to divulge to a potential customer and risk blowing a sale.

Gbaby is also right about the overwhelmingly vast majority of Bryston users, they have 2 channel setups just based on the simple fact up until the SP4 came out there was only a single SSP, the SP3 and it would only appeal to a very select group of home theater enthusiasts, those that didn't need the latest tech but did offer multi-channel while not at the expense of the source content.

[witchdoctor]

Regardless how you view Datasat and Trinnov they both have products more capable then the Storm/Bryston units with respect to internal processing but yes you are most likely correct in terms of brand recognition, more people are probably familiar with the name Bryston then Datasat or Trinnov but the problem is even Bryston is in a niche market (high-end audio) and a lot of people to this day only associate the company with pro gear which is unfortunate.

As for dealers, I would be willing to bet that a good majority of them don' have a clue these Bryston units are limited to 48/24 internally, or even care and are more concerned with hitting over potential customers heads oh yeah it'll accept up to 192/24 which is true but with a huge caveat that they don't understand or for those that know the true workings of the units care to divulge to a potential customer and risk blowing a sale.

Gbaby is also right about the overwhelmingly vast majority of Bryston users, they have 2 channel setups just based on the simple fact up until the SP4 came out there was only a single SSP, the SP3 and it would only appeal to a very select group of home theater enthusiasts, those that didn't need the latest tech but did offer multi-channel while not at the expense of the source content.

I don't know which of those products are most capable. I do know that the SP4 won best of show in that category at the Bristol show so let's assume it is capable enough. As for Gbaby the SP4 isn't aimed at the two channel market.
Question- have you auditioned any of these units are you just comparing specs?

[witchdoctor]

Does anyone in this thread even own an SP4? 

[James Tanner]

I do 

james

[Rod_S]

I don't know which of those products are most capable. I do know that the SP4 won best of show in that category at the Bristol show so let's assume it is capable enough. As for Gbaby the SP4 isn't aimed at the two channel market.
Question- have you auditioned any of these units are you just comparing specs?

There's simply no way of comparing the units side by side unless doing so via specs. These products just aren't something a single dealership would ever carry all of, at least not in my neck of the woods.

Where I live even though I have Bryston and Trinnov dealership, given the cost of the units no one ever stocks these. It was just as bad when I was looking to get the big 28B-SST2's, due to the price they were special order only. Not much of a risk there as I owned at the time two 4B-SST's and a 6B-SST so I knew how the performance would be. Heck it was the same situation for my 7B-SST's as well.

[Rooster19]

Does anyone in this thread even own an SP4? 

fedex has mine (incoming) at the moment...

[Rod_S]

fedex has mine at the moment...

Congrats!

How many channels are you running?