Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?

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CanadianMaestro

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Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #60 on: 27 Sep 2018, 12:01 pm »
Getting back to the orig topic...
Is a DAC really necessary?  :popcorn:

Elizabeth

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Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #61 on: 27 Sep 2018, 12:39 pm »
Loaded question, Elizabeth: is the new DAC worth the $$?  Do you hear a significant improvement?
Hi Calypte, sorry I was not following this thread, so a late response.
Yes my new device, (a Marantz SA-10 SACD player, with several digital inputs, which also decodes CDs using DSD ) is much better than my old DAC.
After I bought new speakers, going from Magnepan 3.6 to Magnepan 20.7 ... My dealer loaned me a Marantz SA-10. I found it to be superior to my old DAC playing CDs via ($40 off eBay) five disc changers (which I use all the time). The Marantz really brought the playback of CD right up to SACD sound quality. particularly the treble. (no more grunge).
The tiny difference in playback between the SA-10 own spinner, and from my changers is not a problem for day in day out use. Allows me to 'save' the Marantz spinner for critical listening moments.

I have 2,500 plus CDs. and maybe a dozen dual discs. So my main interest was in playing CDs. I also have no interest in streaming, at this time. So MQA etc is not a concern. (no one so far seems to have brought up the MQA can of worms...)

Anyway, my thought on a DAC is they are great. Allowing one to buy cheaper used CD spinners and just wearing them out. Instead of expensive CD players that wear out. A DAC in never going to 'wear out'. It may become obsolete for your particular needs.. But if all you want is to play CDs.. it ain't gonna go bad.

Also, when I go to a dealer, they all want to sell me streaming devices. Every time. I have no interest in joining that gang.
So yeah I really really like my new Marantz SA-10. worth the money, to me? yes.  (my previous DAC cost me $250, and I used it for over ten years)

G E

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Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #62 on: 27 Sep 2018, 03:30 pm »
Why not trial a DAC in your system for 30 days?

macrojack

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Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #63 on: 27 Sep 2018, 04:36 pm »
The OP wants to know why he needs a DAC in his system. He doesn't. He maintains the same option I've clung to until recently. That is one of ignoring modern trends. The world has gone digital in large measure. Streaming has become the future of music reproduction. Each of us can ignore this for as long as we like or until it becomes impractical or maybe impossible to do so. To each his own but I have noticed a trend toward replacing your preamp with a versatile DAC with volume control and input selection and streaming capabilities. Last week I obtained a lightly used OPPO Sonica ( Thanks to Cytocycle) and a brand new OPPO UDP 205 (thanks to OPPO). Power amps are also being replaced by powered speakers. Time marches on. I'm using the 205 with my big horns and a Crown XLS 1500 amp. Very handy. I plan to purchase JBL 705P speakers for use with the Sonica.

I did not need any of these changes from a life or death imperative standpoint any more than the OP does. Nonetheless, I found the resulting simplicity and quality of reproduction and presentation to be such that I am willing to give up my turntable and LPs and consider replacing my horns as well. Might even get a haircut too. I'm feeling the glow of inclusion now that I've gone over to the dark side. Join me. You won't regret the change for a minute.

bapcha

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Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #64 on: 27 Sep 2018, 06:44 pm »
Getting back to the orig topic...
Is a DAC really necessary?  :popcorn:

Only if an ADC is "really necessary"

Joe Frances

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Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #65 on: 2 Oct 2018, 03:46 am »
Why not trial a DAC in your system for 30 days?

Back to me the original troublemaker here; I took my 1996 vintage Copland CD player to a reputable dealer; and we played CDs through it; and then with a good Aqua DAC (which is supposed to be very good).  My Copland had a digital out; so we then listed using the "upgraded" DAC.  In all honesty, I didn't hear any difference.  I wish that I had, then I would have had a better idea what all the fuss was about.  Honestly, I hope on re-readying this thread, before I do anything else, I will understand where the "beef" is with outboard DACs.  Right now, I know I will need a new CD player soon, and am planning to get the BCD, and I have an Audioengines little $169 streaming box hooked up to the integrated, and I get a lot of pleasure out of that.  Compared to over -the-air AM?FM the Audioengines is aural Nirvana.  Maybe it will be a mistake to get the BCD stand alone CD player, but as of now, I just don't see it... I thank everyone for their thoughtful and passionate replies to this thread.  Rip Van Winkle thanks you.


Maybe I will also buy a new turntable, that would be funny indeed, since I will have to totally rebuild my vinyl library.  Oh well......

TJ-Sully

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Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #66 on: 2 Oct 2018, 05:43 am »
Joe - the Bryston BCD-3 is what you need. it won't be a mistake. guaranteed.
I thought WhatHiFi said it best here:

"Why buy a dedicated CD player like the Bryston BCD-3? It’s a fair question in this age of streaming and file downloads. The answer is surprisingly simple. It’s good.

If you have a large collection of discs and don’t have the inclination to move to computer-based audio, this Bryston CD player could be what you need."


Go for it man.

TJ

Stu Pitt

Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #67 on: 14 Oct 2018, 04:15 pm »
I went through the same thing a while back. Thinking about it, it was a good 10 years ago or so, so I guess time flies :)

IMO we really need to put the sound quality stuff aside for a bit and ask what the advantages are in going discless. I looked into it because I got tired of getting up and changing discs. While my discs were all neatly organized, I got tired of looking through them for a particular song or two. Looking at all of them, I got sidetracked in that I started seeing stuff I hadn’t listened to in a while and wanted to listen to that instead, then seeing something else, etc. I was quite ADD about it. But mostly, I found myself seemingly getting up and getting discs more than I was sitting and enjoying the music itself. I figured making compilation discs would help, like the old-school mixed tapes I used to make, but it didn’t.

Then my CD collection started taking over the room. I’m a minimalist by nature and an OCD guy in the sense of not wanting to see anything out of place. I found myself reorganizing my CDs constantly - alphabetically, by genre, by era, all that stuff. Then I’d get a new shipment of CDs and the whole collection had to be moved and reconfigured. Yeah, I’m crazy. Don’t judge :)

But my main thing was I traveled quite a bit for work, and got used to my iPod. I could actually sit and listen without fussing about with physical media. I thought it would be a perfect world if I had the iPod convenience with my system at home.

I bought the Apple TV generation 1 with the built in hard drive and optical output. I also bought a several generations old Theta DAC my local shop had laying around for about $150 to see if the whole thing had any potential. I haven’t looked back since. I don’t miss the physical media at all. I still have my turntable and LPs, and that easily fits the bill of handling media and that whole ritual.

I keep it as simple as possible. I run iTunes on my laptop, throwaway USB cable to my Rega DAC, and fed to my Bryston B60. Done. And it sounds fantastic. It could sound better, but couldn’t it ALWAYS sound a little bit better? Actually, I control my iTunes with my iPhone, so it’s not like I’m sitting with my laptop on my lap. And I have all of my music stored on an external hard dive connected to the laptop.

I sit down and listen to music. I’m not fiddling with WiFi issues, server issues, software issues, gear and computer program of the month issues, subscription issues, streaming service being down issues, playlists not showing up issues, etc. I just sit down and listen to music. Whatever I want hear that I own. Just like when I was in an airplane or on a bus. It works when I’m sitting and listening actively, or as background music when I’m doing stuff around the house. Or when there’s a bunch of people over. I can be on the other end of the house and change what’s being played. I can set up a specific playlist or play everything on random. And I can go over to the laptop and switch over to SiriusXM. That’s not really possible with a CD player. Or at least a single disc CDP.

All of that is keeping the system is simple as possible. Hard drive-> laptop -> DAC -> amplification. When I move into a bigger house, I’ll get into stuff like Bluesound with speakers in different rooms and all that fun stuff.

If none of that convenience means anything to you, stick with the CD player. If you think it’s enticing, try it out. I’m sure you’ve got a computer and hard drive. Get a cheap DAC and connect it to see if you’d rather move that way. If it works out, upgrade to your heart and budget’s content. If it’s not worth the effort of going forward, move on.

With the quality of DACs out there, sound quality isn’t the determining factor anymore IMO. It’s how you want to interact with your equipment.

The Rang

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Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #68 on: 14 Oct 2018, 07:50 pm »
Interesting and well thought out take on this subject.
I’m sure it applies to the majority of music listeners.

For me it’s the opposite.
Sound quality isn’t just the determining factor, it’s the only factor.

Elizabeth

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Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #69 on: 14 Oct 2018, 10:01 pm »
Back to me the original troublemaker here;
Maybe I will also buy a new turntable, that would be funny indeed, since I will have to totally rebuild my vinyl library.  Oh well......
I was lucky and decided to "rebuild my vinyl library" back around 1997 or so.
I managed to collect 13,000 LPs dirt cheap. Then had to move in 2007, tossed 7,000. 6,000 of those tossed were Classical.. Of the 6,000 I kept and moved. I now have only about 3,500 or so. Constant weeding out lesser stuff.
I would say no one should get into LP playback at his time. Unless you really really want to. (Or some old fool like me dies and leaves you a big pile of LPs!)

Money is way better spent getting into streaming.

Stu Pitt

Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #70 on: 15 Oct 2018, 03:17 pm »
Interesting and well thought out take on this subject.
I’m sure it applies to the majority of music listeners.

For me it’s the opposite.
Sound quality isn’t just the determining factor, it’s the only factor.
I can respect that it's the only factor for you. However, how exactly do you determine if a DAC or CDP is the best route? There are DACs that outperform CDPs, and CDPs that outperform DACs. To say one type is better than the other isn't anywhere near true.

If you're saying audition everything and choose the one that sounds the best, regardless of if it's a DAC or CDP, then absolutely.

rollo

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Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #71 on: 15 Oct 2018, 03:58 pm »
  Why ?? The source is key to proper sound. Garbage in garbage out. Digital today has equaled vinyl and some DAC's are giving vinyl a challenge not heard before.
Owning both in state of art form has taught me allot lately. Some LPs better Cd. Some Cd's better vinyl. A small degree in either format. Vinyl now is not my main format as it was for a long long time.
The only way one will realize this is to try a State of Art DAC in ones system. Stop fooling with inexpensive wanna bees and try a Bryston.


charles






R. Daneel

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Re: Why Would I Need a DAC-- Or An Expensive DAC?
« Reply #72 on: 22 Oct 2018, 01:01 pm »
Ok, so I am Rip Van Winkle; I dropped out of the audio hobby when I started a family in 1998.  Then it was pretty much CDs, and when I could listen to music I did it in the car; or the Bose radio, or my existing system which was fine at the time.  Now I am back as Rip Van Winkle; and it's all DACs and nomenclature that I really don't understand.  I have a zillion CDs and I am going to need a new CD player (maybe unless I am told otherwise) soon; and the BCD 3 is my choice there.  Also, I know a tiny bit about streaming and I bought a small $169 Audio Engine to stream radio shows, and it is great.  I don't have much music on my computer; and I am enough of a classical music audiophile nut not to find many of the great historic recordings that I love on Tidal or whatever, even though I have been looking just doing research.  So, I am thinking why would I need a DAC? I have talked to a few guys in the few audio stores that still exit, and I don't get it.  I mean I hear what they say, but I am not going to replace all these CDs; maybe I will "rip" them someday.   But if I want to upgrade my system, why would I want a DAC, and if did why would I spend more than a couple of grand on a DAC?  Maybe not a good question for this forum, but I trust Jim Tanner, and like the folks here so maybe you can enlighten me.  Thanks,

Joe

Hi Joe!

No enlightenment required. I am in the prosee of purchasing a new CD player. My First new CD player actually. Most of my collection is in FLAC and this is being playerd through a digital player and a DAC but for CDs, I intend to use a proper CD player. There are advantages to CD playback. It has to do with the fact CD mechanism is slaved to the master clock. Since the base frequency is always the same for CD, the system already "knows" which frequency to lock onto. This is not possible with an outboard DAC because such a device has to be designed to accomodate all incoming frequencies. So an outboard DAC has to employ some trickery to get the digital jitter down.

You might use an outboard DAC and a CD transport and still achieve good results. My favourite CD transport is a Pioneer DVD player actually but you might choose your own. As for CD players, I quite like the Denon SACD offerings. They are known for reliability, quite excellent optical and mechanical Systems and to me, w sound that is bristling with detail.

Cheers,
Antun