Compare BDP specs

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Marius

Compare BDP specs
« on: 6 May 2016, 07:48 pm »
HI James,


can you provide us with the specs of the BDP2 and BDp Pi to be able to compare the 2. Processor, memory, speed, power etc.
I'm trying to determine which machine would suit my (future) needs best, but can't find enough information on the Bryston website. Would be nice to have  it listed like on https://www.fitbit.com/nl/compare, though that might be a bit overkill for only 2 devices ;-)
A short overview here on AC would be great.


Thanks,
Marius


wilsonij

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Re: Compare BDP specs
« Reply #1 on: 6 May 2016, 08:00 pm »
Agreed !

In fact, it would be better still to see the difference between:

1. BDP-1 vs BDP-2 vs BDP-USB vs BDP Pi

and

2. BDA-1 vs BDA-2 vs BDA-3

I think many of us are prepared to upgrade, but only when the cost-benefit is justified, and that means absolute clarity regarding features and capabilities...

Ian

James Tanner

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Re: Compare BDP specs
« Reply #2 on: 6 May 2016, 08:31 pm »
Way to technical for me - I just listen - Chris is the Master of all things computer-ish  :thumb:

james

unincognito

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Re: Compare BDP specs
« Reply #3 on: 7 May 2016, 01:09 am »
we posted a keynote shortly after the announcement containing a comparison of the BDP's

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141017.msg1511106#msg1511106

Marius

Re: Compare BDP specs
« Reply #4 on: 7 May 2016, 06:02 am »
we posted a keynote shortly after the announcement containing a comparison of the BDP's

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141017.msg1511106#msg1511106


Thanks Chris,


I missed https://www.dropbox.com/s/ml1uq1v8klyii45/BDPπ%20v2.m4v?dl=0 before.


Below Side by side is what i was looking for:





following the above i have 4 questions:

- Bryston is not using the Raspberry Pi 3? It has better specs than the 2 showed in above matrix.
- BDP2 is stated for 60000 + library. Is there an upper limit? can it be expanded?
- Also, i would like to ask if it possible to attach 4 usb hdd's (passport 2tb eg), together with a dvd/BD writer for the cd-backup, and the 2 thumbs at the same time, while also reading the NAS with several virtual drives.
 
- Wil it have enough memory for future expansion of features, cq can the memory be expanded if needed.


The reason i ask is that the BDP1 was a miracle of a machine in the beginning, but rather soon showed the limits of not being expandable (fixed memory, not enough power to feed all usb ports, etc). I would need some assurance the BDP2 can be expanded, or , when not, the BDP3 can;-)


Thanks,
Marius

wilsonij

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Re: Compare BDP specs
« Reply #5 on: 7 May 2016, 08:36 am »




That's really useful - thanks !

Meanwhile I've been able to work out the following BDA comparisons (feel free to correct anything I've misunderstood!):

  • BDA-1 has a pair of 24-bit Crystal CS4398 DACs, one per channel in a dual-differential configuration
  • BDA-2 replaces the DAC with 32-bit AKM 4399s, adding support for asynchronous USB (32k-48k)
  • BDA-3 replaces the DAC with 32-bit AKM 4490s, adding support for DSD up to DSD256 (ie. quad rate DSD) up to 11.2MHz{/li]
All of the above support sample rates of 32, 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176, 192K and 16-24Bit PCM.

From what I can tell, the SP-3 uses the same DAC configuration as the BDA-1, implying that the 2 and the 3 sound better... dammit ! :-)

Ian

wilsonij

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Re: Compare BDP specs
« Reply #6 on: 7 May 2016, 11:11 am »
Just thinking out loud here...

I currently have a BDP-1 as my primary source (over XLR), Oppo-83 as secondary (over HDMI), and using the DACs in my SP-3; this combination sounds fantastic but...

  • I'm limited to 30,000 tracks at a time
  • I have redundant components (ie. the Juli@ audio board)
  • I can't listen to native DSD
  • The DACs in the SP3 are falling behind those in the BDA series, most notably the BDA-3

There are various options available...

  • Upgrade to BDP-2 tackles the 30,000 track issue but not the DSD; this option costs lots and still includes components that are redundant (ie. IAD audio board)
  • Downgrade to BDP1-USB and upgrade the SP-3 to accept DSD over USB, which is cost effective and removes redundancy, but still has the 30,000 limit
  • Switch to the BDP-Pi, tackling the track limit and may also be cost-effective, though I'm not sure what the DSD implications are...
  • Introduce a BDA-3 between the BDP/Oppo and SP3, tackles the DSD and sound quality issues but is also expensive and leaves the 30,000 limit

Am I missing any other obvious options/solutions ?

And has anyone tried a direct comparison between using the SP-3 DACs versus a BDA-3 and SP3 pass-through ?

Ian

ps: I'm also keeping an eye on the BCD-3 just in case there are any digital input options there, as I believe the DAC will be the same AKM 4490 as the BDA-3

schmidtmike76

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Re: Compare BDP specs
« Reply #7 on: 7 May 2016, 01:16 pm »
I just want to know how they sound is the 2 better than the USB-1 and is that better than the Pi.  If so what makes them sound better from each other.  Yes Iam in the market for one.  I would like the CD player for ease of use but I just bought the bda-2 I don't see the reason for having two really good dacs in one system playing the same thing.

unincognito

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Re: Compare BDP specs
« Reply #8 on: 7 May 2016, 02:45 pm »

Thanks Chris,


I missed https://www.dropbox.com/s/ml1uq1v8klyii45/BDPπ%20v2.m4v?dl=0 before.


Below Side by side is what i was looking for:

following the above i have 4 questions:

- Bryston is not using the Raspberry Pi 3? It has better specs than the 2 showed in above matrix.
- BDP2 is stated for 60000 + library. Is there an upper limit? can it be expanded?
- Also, i would like to ask if it possible to attach 4 usb hdd's (passport 2tb eg), together with a dvd/BD writer for the cd-backup, and the 2 thumbs at the same time, while also reading the NAS with several virtual drives.
 
- Wil it have enough memory for future expansion of features, cq can the memory be expanded if needed.


The reason i ask is that the BDP1 was a miracle of a machine in the beginning, but rather soon showed the limits of not being expandable (fixed memory, not enough power to feed all usb ports, etc). I would need some assurance the BDP2 can be expanded, or , when not, the BDP3 can;-)


Thanks,
Marius

Hi Marius,

The Pi3 just isn't software compatible with our hardware configuration, its being worked on.  Also we didn't notice any significant performance gain between the Pi2 and the Pi3 and the Pi3 is also more expensive in Canada, so we aren't to worried about it at the moment.  If the Pi3 had more system memory then the PI2 then we would put getting the hardware/software compatibility issue fixed at a higher priority. 

Those numbers are only estimates and greatly depend on the amount of tag data that is associated to your audio files.  I'm not really sure what the upper limit would be for the Bryston DB on the BDP-2, but it should be somewhere north of 120,000 songs.  With my library I think I estimated it at around 300,000 songs, but when i was looking at your unit last I was estimating it about half that.  We have considered using the scratch drive again for this, it would ultimately remove any limitation but at a significant performance hit in the time it would take to rebuild.

The optical drive will likely need its own power supply
The BDP-2 could likely power the four hard drives
The BDP-Pi would likely only power one of the four drives with the remaining three plugged into a powered usb hub
The NAS wouldn't be an issue as it doesn't draw any additional power

The BDP-1's biggest drawback is that it has just enough memory todo what it initially was meant to do, play music from a usb drive and organize it by a file folder structure.  Processing power is fairly minor in the sense it might take a bit longer for the unit to react or organize itself, but ultimately doesn't effect sound quality, one of the reasons we aren't concerned about pi3 compatibility out the door.

Keep in mind one of the reasons we haven't introduced a BDP-3 and currently have no plans to has to do with the BDP-2's current configuration is more then capable of anything that we plan to support.  Also after the BDP-1 outcry that came with the BDP-2 release we did quickly add some additional future proofing of the BDP-2.  Most BDP-2's shipped with the rear of the chassis as a separate piece held in by 3-4 screws from the bottom.  With intel focusing on consuming less power with every newer generation of cpu the BDP-2's 5Amp supply should also be able to provide enough current as well for any system board upgrades.

Cheers
Chris

unincognito

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Re: Compare BDP specs
« Reply #9 on: 7 May 2016, 03:02 pm »
Just thinking out loud here...

I currently have a BDP-1 as my primary source (over XLR), Oppo-83 as secondary (over HDMI), and using the DACs in my SP-3; this combination sounds fantastic but...

  • I'm limited to 30,000 tracks at a time
  • I have redundant components (ie. the Juli@ audio board)
  • I can't listen to native DSD
  • The DACs in the SP3 are falling behind those in the BDA series, most notably the BDA-3

There are various options available...

  • Upgrade to BDP-2 tackles the 30,000 track issue but not the DSD; this option costs lots and still includes components that are redundant (ie. IAD audio board)
  • Downgrade to BDP1-USB and upgrade the SP-3 to accept DSD over USB, which is cost effective and removes redundancy, but still has the 30,000 limit
  • Switch to the BDP-Pi, tackling the track limit and may also be cost-effective, though I'm not sure what the DSD implications are...
  • Introduce a BDA-3 between the BDP/Oppo and SP3, tackles the DSD and sound quality issues but is also expensive and leaves the 30,000 limit

Am I missing any other obvious options/solutions ?

And has anyone tried a direct comparison between using the SP-3 DACs versus a BDA-3 and SP3 pass-through ?

Ian

ps: I'm also keeping an eye on the BCD-3 just in case there are any digital input options there, as I believe the DAC will be the same AKM 4490 as the BDA-3

Hi Ian,

keep in mind that limitation of 30,000 songs is only an estimate and only relevant to features that use the Bryston DB.  This feature is only relevant to the Artist view in the media player, a view that sorts your music library by artist for you.  You can still navigate your collection using the file folder structure in the media player web app or a third party clients like mPad.

The BDP-Pi doesn't support DSD, when we introduce native dad support then it might support DSD64.

DoP is still DSD; the downside to DoP is it uses twice the bandwidth as native DSD.  Regardless DoP doesn't convert your DSD audio to PCM.

Cheers,
Chris

wilsonij

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Re: Compare BDP specs
« Reply #10 on: 7 May 2016, 03:21 pm »
Thanks Chris

keep in mind that limitation of 30,000 songs is only an estimate and only relevant to features that use the Bryston DB... You can still navigate your collection using the file folder structure in the media player web app or a third party clients like mPad.

Really ? That's great because I only use mPad to navigate my collection and am rapidly heading towards 30,000 tracks ! :-)

DoP is still DSD; the downside to DoP is it uses twice the bandwidth as native DSD.  Regardless DoP doesn't convert your DSD audio to PCM.

Assuming that the SP3 upgrade allows DSD via USB (ie. DoP) I think you're saying that there is no difference in the data used to create the audio, simply the protocol used to transport it - yes ? (which would mean no difference in sound quality between DoP over USB and DSD over HDMI - hurrah !)

Ian

Marius

Re: Compare BDP specs
« Reply #11 on: 7 May 2016, 03:34 pm »

Wow Chris, thanks!
This must have been one of your best spent hours on the treadmill.
Only to underline what i said earlier in


That's why we're so very lucky to have this AC board actively supported by James, Chris, Mike and Gary :thumb:   Also, Bryston developing great products helps of course ;) 
Cheers,Marius



since im using a usb hub right now, with full satisfaction and no issues whatsoever on the BDP1, the 2 won't be problematic i take it on the power front.


What i still am curious about is the size of the library. you're library of 300K works on the BDP2. That would suffice most users i take it. BDP1 needs special actions for that and y[size=78%]ou say you considered using the scratch drive again. Couldn't you enable this as an option, for beta testing? Right now i just am not able to use the bryston DB, and use a bare bones MM. Would be really great if i at least could test it on the BDP1 with a library larger than 60K songs. Id take the rebuilding performance gap for granted, considering thats a one time thing, and I've dedicated a drive just for that purpose, now that the usb hub provides all the juice the drives need without issue.[/size]


It would be a substantial benefit to all BDP1 users: buy an extra powered usb hub and take advantage of all options and possibilities the MM software offers. No brainer to me (for 40 euro ;)  ) Even the occasional CD Backup is possible, granted the BDP1 lacks enough processing power to be able to compare to the BDP2, or an app on the PC/MAc.


Cheers,


And have a wonderful weekend!
Marius


Hi Marius,

The Pi3 just isn't software compatible with our hardware configuration, its being worked on.  Also we didn't notice any significant performance gain between the Pi2 and the Pi3 and the Pi3 is also more expensive in Canada, so we aren't to worried about it at the moment.  If the Pi3 had more system memory then the PI2 then we would put getting the hardware/software compatibility issue fixed at a higher priority. 

Those numbers are only estimates and greatly depend on the amount of tag data that is associated to your audio files.  I'm not really sure what the upper limit would be for the Bryston DB on the BDP-2, but it should be somewhere north of 120,000 songs.  With my library I think I estimated it at around 300,000 songs, but when i was looking at your unit last I was estimating it about half that.  We have considered using the scratch drive again for this, it would ultimately remove any limitation but at a significant performance hit in the time it would take to rebuild.

The optical drive will likely need its own power supply
The BDP-2 could likely power the four hard drives
The BDP-Pi would likely only power one of the four drives with the remaining three plugged into a powered usb hub
The NAS wouldn't be an issue as it doesn't draw any additional power

The BDP-1's biggest drawback is that it has just enough memory todo what it initially was meant to do, play music from a usb drive and organize it by a file folder structure.  Processing power is fairly minor in the sense it might take a bit longer for the unit to react or organize itself, but ultimately doesn't effect sound quality, one of the reasons we aren't concerned about pi3 compatibility out the door.

Keep in mind one of the reasons we haven't introduced a BDP-3 and currently have no plans to has to do with the BDP-2's current configuration is more then capable of anything that we plan to support.  Also after the BDP-1 outcry that came with the BDP-2 release we did quickly add some additional future proofing of the BDP-2.  Most BDP-2's shipped with the rear of the chassis as a separate piece held in by 3-4 screws from the bottom.  With intel focusing on consuming less power with every newer generation of cpu the BDP-2's 5Amp supply should also be able to provide enough current as well for any system board upgrades.

Cheers
Chris
« Last Edit: 12 May 2016, 12:11 pm by Marius »