[Laundrew]

Hello!

I intend to buy 28B SST2 Bryston amplifiers to match R 907 Jamo floor standing speakers (4 ohms),
Naim dac-xps and Audio Research preamp ref 3. Mainly because this amps are supposed to play well at low levels.

As I have read it once in an hifi review, the Bryston amplifiers might be clipping, due to over heating.

Is there any issue with over-heating with the mono blocs, due mainly to their design's characteristics?
Thanks for your advice on this prosaic matter.

Regards,

GH

Greetings GH and be welcome 

I'll forgo poetics 

I was reading your post with respect to amplifier clipping and heating issues in the Bryston Philosophy thread and thought that a new topic about this subject may be more helpful to you.

When I was auditioning a pair of "pre-transformer modified" 28s, I did experience them clipping only once during the demonstration. The musical track that the 28s were amplifying was Japanese Drums and the BP26 was selected to full volume. The speakers were JBL 1400 Project Arrays.

The amount of energy that this system was producing during this demonstration was absolutely insane - everything in the store was shaking and the walls were also resonating. Looking back, it was the proverbial freight train roaring by. So was it an issue with the amplifiers or the wall running out of power to feed them - who knows. What I can tell you is that I have never come close to using my 28s (post transformer modified) to these extreme levels - anything nearing these levels on the BP26 are an uncharted country for me. I do let them roar from time to time, but everything is there in my music at very low power settings also - ah, my sweet Beasties.

As for heating issues, I have used my amplifiers for what I consider marathon listening sessions and have never experienced any issues with respect to this. I do use an oscillating fan during these times to move the air around both of my amplifiers as I understand the benefits of keeping electronic equipment well ventilated. I do not know what else to say but the Beasties keep me smiling even though it makes my face ache.

Be well...     


 

[SoundGame]

Hey Laundrew,
 
This thread and your post caught the curious side of me.  I assume - and correct me if I'm wrong - that your BP26 is hooked to the Beasties via XLR cables and that the Beasties are set to the corresponding lower gain setting.  What position is your volume knob set for normal listening and where to you turn it up to for your spirited sittings?  How high have you turned it up? 
I know recording levels etc. and other factors need to be considered but I was just wondering how high that volume gets set at with such powerful amps in play.  Cheers.

[DaveNote]

Have owned two 4Bs, 7Bs, 7BSSTs and now 7BSSTs squared amps, all with a Bryston preamp (and for a while, a Z Systems digital equalizer). Over all these years, never clipped once. The reason, I think, is simple: I don't run them at wall shaking volumes. It might be fun to do this, but it is hazardous to one's hearing, risks clipping, and might damage the amps and speakers. After all, there is a reason Bryston designed its amps to show you when clipping is happening. As to heating, for the same reason, my 7Bs have never inched up to more than very slightly warm to the touch, and my 4Bs to only slightly warmer - never hot.

The bottom line is that running at ear-shattering levels is like driving a car at very high speeds - it's nice to see what your baby can do, but it's risky and in some situations, just foolish - something of which I confess I have been guilty, and have regretted.J

Dave

[konut]

Hello!
As I have read it once in an hifi review, the Bryston amplifiers might be clipping, due to over heating. 
Regards,

GH

Can you cite this review? I would postulate that the speakers used in the review were very inefficient and that they presented a low ohmage load to the amp. Those 2 conditions would cause what is being described.

[Laundrew]

Hey Laundrew,
 
This thread and your post caught the curious side of me.  I assume - and correct me if I'm wrong - that your BP26 is hooked to the Beasties via XLR cables and that the Beasties are set to the corresponding lower gain setting.  What position is your volume knob set for normal listening and where to you turn it up to for your spirited sittings?  How high have you turned it up? 
I know recording levels etc. and other factors need to be considered but I was just wondering how high that volume gets set at with such powerful amps in play.  Cheers.

Gettings SoundGame 

I just placed the remastered version of Pink Floyd's "The Division Bell" into the system and am playing the first track "Cluster One." If you have this CD you can duplicate my settings for a comparison. They did a wonderful job on this CD.

My room is about 16x18 and on my BP26, the 7 o'clock position is zero volume and I am listening to Cluster One at approximately the 8:30 position. The volume for me is perfect and music is all there with great detail of the piano playing around the electric guitar - bass is firm. I can also talk comfortably over the music with Lady Laundrew. At approximately the 10:00 position, you would now have to raise your voice a little bit to carry on a conversation.

I next used Nine Inch Nails' Dead Souls in SACD for a little more grunt. 1:00 position would be the limit to be able to listen to the entire tune. Very briefly tried the 3:00 position and some stuff started moving on my shelves and I truly believe that you can seriously hurt yourself at these volume levels - it is truly insane. Just a footnote, everything was still crystal clear at this volume level.

Nine Inch Nails ~Dead Souls~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWs8kdGUgDg

Be well...
 

[bummrush]

Sounds good how come you can't use more of your volume control?

[SoundGame]

Thanks for the replay Laundrew. 
 
Wow, your room is similiar in size to the one I'm soon to build in my basement - around 15 X 18.  I can only guess how loud it would be at 3:00 o'clock - must be like front row of a rock concert.
 
My current room is 12 X 15 and though I have not turned my BP6/4B-SST2 combo past say 12 o'clock, I'm near your with my experience with listening levels and the volume control.  Generally, I listen around 9 o'clock very comfortably, conversing over the music but with the amp delivering all the detail and dynamics, just on a smaller scale.  More spririted listening is at the 10:30 position - getting up to 12:00 when I demo it to a friend.  My speakers are currently just small bookshelvers so going beyond 12 is not something I want to even experiment too much.  That will change when I get a set of floorstanders - in the plan.
 
Nowhere near clipping for me.
 
Cheers,
 
G
 
 

[Laundrew]

Sounds good how come you can't use more of your volume control?

I could go back to my original audio system after a few days listening to the Beasties at these levels and be in total bliss - I would have to track down a pair of Bose 701s. As it stands, this gear is distend to go into my studio when I build it - I will most likely purchase a pair of Bose bookshelves to go with this system because I can be just plain downright weird at times . Please be kind to Laundrew after this recent statement as sometimes he knows not what he does.

After all, Bose tells me that they are the best and you gotta have faith in some things.



This was our friend Apollo, notice the Bose speakers?




Be well...

[SoundGame]

Not gonna knock you Laundrew on the Bose - they can be pleasant, if not hi-fi.  Personaly, with that gear a pair of Energy Pro 22 speakers would be sublime....cheers.

[Elizabeth]

Under special conditions I can and do run my Bryston BP-26 at 100% volume.
I use a fancy tube buffer post CD player/DAC and it also has a volume control. So using that, I can have my BP-26 preamp at 100% volume and the 'tube buffers's volume int othe BP-26 at a tiny fraction of it's operating range, say 5%.
The sound is a little more interesting that way. Dynamics are way up.

[bummrush]

Thanks ,, have a great night

[95Dyna]

I have brought my 7B SST2's to their knees with a major clipping episode.  It happened during a recording by Jim Brock entitled "Vasio" on his CD "Tropic Affair" Reference Recordings RR-3lCD.  The introduction contains some rumbling low frequency material juxtaposed with some shimmering percussive sequences that present an image that invites the listener (at least this one) to crank the volume up a bit.  I was listening in the dark and hit the up arrow on the BR-2 unwittingly.  I'm guessing I was at about 2:30 on the BP-26 when the rumbling started.  The leds on the 7's put on a startling light show that had me diving for the remote to put out the fire.

Now, you ask, how could you possibly do that to a  pair of seemingly bullet proof Bryston amps.  Blame my speakers that dip to .8 ohms just below 30 hrz.  For the same reason my 7's run a little warmer than some have described here but never too warm to touch.

[Diamond Dog]

Now, you ask, how could you possibly do that to a  pair of seemingly bullet proof Bryston amps.  Blame my speakers that dip to .8 ohms just below 30 hrz.  For the same reason my 7's run a little warmer than some have described here but never too warm to touch.

I did not realize those Kappas plumbed those murky depths. I had a friend who had a set of those in a little one-bedroom apartment - drove 'em with some big ol' integrated ( don't recall what it was ). He was much loved by his neighbors who were all quite old and conveniently quite hard of hearing. How old are those Infinity's, Dyna?

D.D.

[Phil A]

The original Kappas date to the late 1980s I believe.  I remember someone having them.  My Thiels (had 7.2s at one point and now have 3.7s - the 7.2s were definitely harder to drive) had no problem with my Bryston 6BSST when I had it on the front 3 channels.  I had a 14BSST at one point.  Did not tolerate the 7.2s at all (and I had an old 4BST on them at one point way back and with my room it was pushing it) and I had fans on a custom built amp stand.  The 3.7s were better but one side used to run very hot at times due to the impedence (noted in Stereophile at 2.4 minimum at 125Hz and between 2 and 3 ohms over much of the audio band).

[larevoj]

I have pushed my 4BSST2 and BP26 to 12 OClock but not beyond and to me its insanely loud so loud - not so for most classical recordings. These days what impresses me more is having the same musical intensity conveyed even in low or moderate levels say at 8 OClock...

[tim92gts]

Now, you ask, how could you possibly do that to a  pair of seemingly bullet proof Bryston amps.  Blame my speakers that dip to .8 ohms just below 30 hrz.  For the same reason my 7's run a little warmer than some have described here but never too warm to touch.

Isn't that how they should work?
My 14BSST2s show clipping before the sound degrades noticeably.
Only seen it intermittently and on the lower impedance bass drivers
but there was a vast amount of sound energy coming out.
The amps do warm up well, and definitely more on the bass than the treble and mid.
All as i'd expect with a 380Hz crossover.

Tim
(biamped BB5is)

[95Dyna]

I did not realize those Kappas plumbed those murky depths. I had a friend who had a set of those in a little one-bedroom apartment - drove 'em with some big ol' integrated ( don't recall what it was ). He was much loved by his neighbors who were all quite old and conveniently quite hard of hearing. How old are those Infinity's, Dyna?

D.D.

The 9 Kappas I bought new in the spring of 1990 so they are now 21.5 years old and I have to tell you they can still hang with some speaks I have auditioned in the $12-16K range making it a tough decision to part with them.  During their tenure in my system I have gone from age 39 to 60 and have deteriorated far more than they have.

[Phil A]

Here are some nice shots of Infinity classics, including the Kappas (which is says were introduced in 1987)

http://www.davidsaudio.com/html/infinity_.html

http://www.bobbyshred.com/infinity.html


I always used to look at their stuff in the old days

[Laundrew]

Bump 

Be well...

[sfraser]

Greetings GH and be welcome 

I'll forgo poetics 

I was reading your post with respect to amplifier clipping and heating issues in the Bryston Philosophy thread and thought that a new topic about this subject may be more helpful to you.

When I was auditioning a pair of "pre-transformer modified" 28s, I did experience them clipping only once during the demonstration. The musical track that the 28s were amplifying was Japanese Drums and the BP26 was selected to full volume. The speakers were JBL 1400 Project Arrays.

The amount of energy that this system was producing during this demonstration was absolutely insane - everything in the store was shaking and the walls were also resonating. Looking back, it was the proverbial freight train roaring by. So was it an issue with the amplifiers or the wall running out of power to feed them - who knows. What I can tell you is that I have never come close to using my 28s (post transformer modified) to these extreme levels - anything nearing these levels on the BP26 are an uncharted country for me. I do let them roar from time to time, but everything is there in my music at very low power settings also - ah, my sweet Beasties.

As for heating issues, I have used my amplifiers for what I consider marathon listening sessions and have never experienced any issues with respect to this. I do use an oscillating fan during these times to move the air around both of my amplifiers as I understand the benefits of keeping electronic equipment well ventilated. I do not know what else to say but the Beasties keep me smiling even though it makes my face ache.

Be well...   

I think the original post might be a bit mis-leading. I don't think overheating will cause clipping.  Likely the "cause" of the overheating AND clipping  is either  too high of an input voltage and/or too low of a output impedance.