Speaker Crossover questions?

JOATMON · « **on:** 30 Jun 2018, 06:03 pm »

Hello audio fans! I have a couple of questions about a speaker crossover circuit I am trying to upgrade. I have already ordered the caps and resistors and still need to order the coils. The brand capacitors I will be using are the Clarity CMR and CSA type. I am wondering if these caps should be installed in a certain direction, such as the way the labels are from left to right?

Also, I have some Path audio resistors for use in the signal path, and they have a single black wire on one side, and two wires on the other. I know that this longer black wire is for connecting to the ground side. Perhaps someone would like to comment on how I should connect this resistor?

Last question would be about the coils I will order. I was thinking on using copper foil coils, and was also wondering if these coils should be connected in a certain direction such as connecting the inner side to the input, or should I connect the outer side to the input (+) side?

Thanks for any suggestions!

Jack M.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 06:06 pm »

Welcome aboard Jack

Resistors have directions as you see.
Google for: resistors color code

Inductors also have directions,
external wire is input, center is outout.

JOATMON · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 06:08 pm »

Thank you very much FullRangeMan!

gab · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 06:12 pm »

Quote from: JOATMON on 30 Jun 2018, 06:08 pm

Thank you very much FullRangeMan!

general consensus on inductors is inner wire to input

contact Clarity dealer or factory to see how they label vs outer/inner foil

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 06:14 pm »

Sorry this mistake.
Avoid core inductors, favor air core copper.
This image may help:

gab · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 06:25 pm »

Quote from: FullRangeMan on 30 Jun 2018, 06:14 pm

Sorry this mistake.

Well maybe since everyone's hears things differently. Easy enough to try both ways and see what YOU prefer. Here is a snippet from Rick Schultz and his thoughts on the matter (over on GR Research Official Super-V thread pg 2):

"A bigger difference will be to change the 16 gauge Erse coils to copper foil wax Jantzens......way, way better. Use the 12 gauge ones for the mid range and 16 gauge ones for the tweeter. Go into the inside of the coil and out the outside....much better sound this way."

and on pg 5 of that thread, Tyson installed Jantzen foil inductors in his Super-V and reported back:

"I used a 16ga 1.0mH on the midrange only. I wanted to try it out and see if it made any difference while keeping as many other things the same as possible. After this successful result I've also ordered all 14ga Jantzen Wax/Foils to replace all 3 inductors. Those are still on the way to me, I can't wait to get them all in. I went with 14ga because they were the closest match to the DCR of the current coils. I attach the inner coil lead to the amp side, and the outer foil to the driver side."

Now I realize many wire their inductors opposite. For example Troels Gravesen. One of his latest designs that shows good diagrams of how the crossover is wired: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/The-Loudspeaker.htm

I guess its a case of different strokes for different folks! Anyway FullRangeMan - I thought you didn't use crossovers

so I didn't realize Audiocircle made you the resident expert on them.

Take care my friend and I'm out on this thread.

gab

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 06:35 pm »

I recall Richard(Scorpion) used this Jantzen(PE):

JOATMON · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 07:12 pm »

Thanks guys! Much appreciated!

I will contact Clarity and see what they say about inner/outer connections. Perhaps the labels on the caps should all be placed the same way, hopefully. I was assuming that maybe the inner side would flow to the outer side in the same direction as the writing goes from left to right. That would make it much easier for me anyways..lol

As far as the coils are concerned, I did check with Parts Express website, and they don't stock the value I would need in the copper foil coils. Not sure if the Jantzen C-Coil Toroidal would be better or not?

I have used the Erse copper foils, and they seem to be good. I was also considering the Alpha Core coils, as I have read good things about them too. So I would connect the inner foil of these copper foil coils to the input side, then use the outer side to continue on the signal path to other parts?

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 07:16 pm »

I have this Goertz 4.7mH now gone:
https://www.soniccraft.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=alpha+core&search_in_description=1&x=0&y=0

JOATMON · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 07:20 pm »

Quote from: FullRangeMan on 30 Jun 2018, 07:16 pm

I have this Goertz mow gone:
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/pair-alpha-core-12-awg-470mh-p-5026

I clicked on that link, but it says Product not found. Yes, the Goertz inductors are good. I had used them many years ago, before trying the Erse coils. I'm just not sure if you'd hear any difference? I guess that would be subjective, but not certain!

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 09:10 pm »

Try again I updated the link. What Erse you recommed?
Do you should contact a expert(Jeff) from Sonic Craft post here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=201

JOATMON · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 10:45 pm »

Quote from: FullRangeMan on 30 Jun 2018, 09:10 pm

Try again I updated the link. What Erse you recommed?
Do you should contact a expert(Jeff) from Sonic Craft post here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=201

I'd recommend the Erse Foil Q coils. I would imagine that their specifications on their website are accurate? I haven't compared the Goertz Alpha core coils to the Erse Foil Q's, but I think I will just to see..lol

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Jun 2018, 11:33 pm »

I would imagine that their specifications on their website are accurate?
I doubt they could fraud specs, although if the price is cheap it could worth a try.

Phil A · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Jul 2018, 01:43 am »

Welcome!

JOATMON · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Jul 2018, 07:39 pm »

Quote from: Phil A on 1 Jul 2018, 01:43 am

Welcome!

Thanks!

JOATMON · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Jul 2018, 08:12 pm »

Quote from: FullRangeMan on 30 Jun 2018, 11:33 pm

I would imagine that their specifications on their website are accurate?
I doubt they could fraud specs, although if the price is cheap it could worth a try.

Well, according to what I have read on both companies specifications, the Goertz coils have the least DCR/ohms. Here are 3 examples:

14AWG 14AWG
Goertz Alpha Core Coils versus ERSE FoilQ Coils
.5 mH= .12 ohms .5 mH= .181 ohms
1.0 mH= .075 ohms 1.0 mH= .273 ohms
1.5 mH= .251 ohms 1.5 mH= .333 ohms

12AWG 12AWG
Goertz Alpha Core Coils versus ERSE FoilQ Coils
.5 mH= .075 ohms .5 mH= .134 ohms
1.0 mH= .12 ohms 1.0 mH= .217 ohms
1.5 mH= .16 ohms 1.5 mH= .255 ohms

Both companies claim to use 99.99% pure copper, and also have a 2.5% tolerance rating!

So my question would be why are the DCR values almost doubled with the ERSE coils versus the Goertz coils???

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Jul 2018, 09:25 pm »

So my question would be why are the DCR values almost doubled with the ERSE coils versus the Goertz coils???
At first glance I would say Goertz copper was purer, I could like to see if the winding technique they use are the same?

What is really important is the SQ and the price, I can live with that DCR if the sound is good.

ArthurDent · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Jul 2018, 06:34 am »

Greetings & Welcome to AC Jack

JOATMON · « **Reply #18 on:** 3 Jul 2018, 06:30 am »

Quote from: ArthurDent on 2 Jul 2018, 06:34 am

Greetings & Welcome to AC Jack

Thanks ArthurDent!

JOATMON · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Jul 2018, 03:19 am »

I have a couple more questions on capacitors. I just built a crossover using Clarity CSA caps and also purchased some Audyn copper foil .1 microfarads for bypassing on each of the CSA caps.

Should this improve the sound quality? I've read that these copper foil caps can take a long time to burn in?

I was also considering trying the Jupiter VT aluminum foil caps. They are a little pricey, but much less than the copper foil caps. Has anyone tried the VT caps in a speaker crossover?

Last thing is should I post about caps and crossovers in another category here at this forum?

Thanks for any information or advice!

Jack