Frank, you've done it again!

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turkey

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #60 on: 17 Aug 2010, 04:24 pm »
and Wadia CD players (no vinyl, darn).  While my listening impressions are different with these versus my AVA Insight 440H and Insight pre-amp, I feel the perceived differences are most likely due to the different room sizes and room treatments, more than any palpable electronic difference(s). So....for the $$ I spent on AVA front-end into the Maggies I dont think I'm missing

I agree with the basic idea here.

I've come to the conclusion that speakers, listening room, and the recording are 90+% of the sound of our stereo systems. Some days I feel they're 90, and some 99%. :)


Speaking to some of the other replies:

I feel that AVA is a good value, and I own AVA gear. In fact, I or my family still have all but one Jensen's or AVA component that I purchased. I think the present count is 8 components, of which 6 are in daily use.

I've owned a Bryston amp for use in the studio (I've listened to newer Bryston gear too). I also at one point owned a couple of dozen Crown linear amps. Frank's amps are not IMO bulletproof enough for pro use. My impression at the time was that Bryston sounded almost as good as Frank's amps did, and better than Crown. Bryston was the most expensive, followed by Crown and then AVA was a bargain for home use.

More recently, I have done some blind testing that showed that there isn't much to choose from between a lot of electronics. I'm still processing the results, but I and several other people were startled by them. :)

As for the EveAnna Manley gear, it has always sounded quite colored to me. I could never forget I was listening to tubes. She also gets into a lot of audiophlake ideas, so it's pretty easy for me to dismiss her products as being unsuitable. Add in their relatively high cost and they're just a non-starter. (I haven't had the chance to do any controlled comparisons of them, but to tell you the truth I'm not terribly interested in doing so.)

I would currently lean towards AVA equipment, one of NP's designs, Bryston, or perhaps one of Greg Ball, Hugh Dean, or Rod Elliott's designs. I probably would not choose Bryston or Pass Labs because of cost unless I ran into a good deal on a used piece, so I'd be more into DIY or AVA. I would also consider a Pioneer receiver.

I'm also not sure that things are really that subjective. What I've been seeing is that people agree about what is good and what isn't when controlled testing is done. Too often, our eyes get in the way of our listening. :) Eliminate the distractions and a lot of the differences we "hear" seem to go away too.


martyo

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #61 on: 17 Aug 2010, 04:50 pm »
Quote
I'm also not sure that things are really that subjective. What I've been seeing is that people agree about what is good and what isn't when controlled testing is done. Too often, our eyes get in the way of our listening.  Eliminate the distractions and a lot of the differences we "hear" seem to go away too.
Couldn't disagree with you more, but that's okay.

BTW, any particular Pioneer receiver? :o I still have a 9100 integrated, driving refurbished KLH17's in the shed. My original failed when I bought the Dahlquist DQ10's in '76 or '77. 8)
 

turkey

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #62 on: 17 Aug 2010, 05:03 pm »
BTW, any particular Pioneer receiver? :o I still have a 9100 integrated, driving refurbished KLH17's in the shed. My original failed when I bought the Dahlquist DQ10's in '76 or '77. 8)

Evidently any of the recent ones with "hybrid" output circuitry are good. The one I heard was a VSX518K if I remember. (The one bad thing about products like this is that there are umpteen models spread over a number of years that all look alike and have similar model numbers.)

They probably wouldn't be a good fit for you because you have very inefficient, power-hungry speakers. The field gets more limited when you need an amp with 200+ W/ch. Maybe you should choose different speakers?  :P


boycephoto

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #63 on: 18 Aug 2010, 12:46 pm »
Hey Min Mark,

I agree with you 100%! 

Dave

martyo

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #64 on: 18 Aug 2010, 04:41 pm »
Quote
They probably wouldn't be a good fit for you because you have very inefficient, power-hungry speakers. The field gets more limited when you need an amp with 200+ W/ch. Maybe you should choose different speakers? 

I did change my Avatar thinking of you, excellent speakers for that Receiver.  :P I'm really bummed you didn't comment on those CS99a's.  :cry: I really did own a pair at one time. :oops:       Peace 8)

Construct

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #65 on: 18 Aug 2010, 04:44 pm »
I did change my Avatar thinking of you, excellent speakers for that Receiver.  :P I'm really bummed you didn't comment on those CS99a's.  :cry: I really did own a pair at one time. :oops:       Peace 8)
  Ever have a set of pioneer hpm's or those gas-charged cerwin-Vegas?

turkey

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #66 on: 18 Aug 2010, 05:07 pm »
  Ever have a set of pioneer hpm's or those gas-charged cerwin-Vegas?

I had a set of the C-V S1s. Those were the 3-way ones with a 12" woofer and a horn-loaded phenolic dome shrieker. The more I listened to them, the less I liked them.

Then I heard a pair of Fried Betas and couldn't get rid of the C-Vs fast enough. :) Right after that I sold the giant Sherwood integrated amp I had and got an NAD 1020 preamp and a Hafler DH-220 kit. I think that was the first time I would say I actually had a decent system.


martyo

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #67 on: 18 Aug 2010, 05:59 pm »
Quote
Ever have a set of pioneer hpm's or those gas-charged cerwin-Vegas?

Nope, but one of my best friends had the 100's. Brutal to listen too I thought. He liked them. :o   I went to Dahlquist from the Pioneers.

martyo

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #68 on: 18 Aug 2010, 06:05 pm »
Quote
horn-loaded phenolic dome shrieker.

Well said :rotflmao:

Construct

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #69 on: 18 Aug 2010, 06:21 pm »
Well said :rotflmao:
Ican believe it. Cv has had some brutally harsh tweeters. I never hear those...only seen. Seems to be a lit of hpm followers.

trebejo

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #70 on: 18 Aug 2010, 09:30 pm »
I did change my Avatar thinking of you, excellent speakers for that Receiver.  :P
Hey, those are KLH Model Somethings? How do they sound?

These vintage speakers come up on craigslist from time to time. I've been thinking about matching up a pair with the U70--a hifi reunion in some sense.  :thumb:

martyo

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #71 on: 18 Aug 2010, 10:06 pm »
Hey, those are KLH Model Somethings? How do they sound?

These vintage speakers come up on craigslist from time to time. I've been thinking about matching up a pair with the U70--a hifi reunion in some sense.  :thumb:

No, they are Pioneer CS99a's. And I assure you that you do not want to pair them up with the U70. They are "better than a pizza". That is what we used to say about them in the mid '70's. I owned a pair. Not good, not ever good. I can definately be nostalgic, and my brother and I restored a pair of KLH 17's. One of the better KLH conventional models.(the 9's are still great in the right application) I use them in my shed. They are okay and much better than the Pioneers(who never really built good sounding speakers) but IMNSHO, these old speakers tend to sound better and better over the years(not hearing them) because of nostalgia not because they really did sound that great. I pined about the 17's, not hearing them for many years. But there was a reason I bought the Dahlquists, they were a BIG step up from even the great classic speakers like Advent's or the AR3a.........I know some folks rave about the Classics now, but not me. And for instance, the Salk HT3's I have, or the HT2-TL/RAAL's are Very Big steps up from the Dahlquists, which is what my brother replaced with his HT2's. Just my not so humble opinion.  8) 

trebejo

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #72 on: 18 Aug 2010, 10:58 pm »
Thanks for the insights, Martyo. I guess the best aspect of the older speakers is the need at the time to make speakers more efficient. As for our memory of how great these guys sounded, hey, some of us listened to those speakers with younger ears. Makes it easier to get full frequency response out of a pair of KLH's.  :wink:

TjMV3

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #73 on: 18 Aug 2010, 11:08 pm »
I think I've mentioned this before. ??

I have an older Van Alstine Fet Valve 500,  which Frank so graciously and generously upgraded to the Ultra+ status.  And I also have a McIntosh MC252 power amp and previously owned MC402 on the way soon.

I love both amps to death!!!!

I have three systems in my house and I love having the option to choose the Mac or the AVA.  Doesn't get any more musically satisfying for me.

AVA and McIntosh are my favorite preamp,  amplifier,  sources and DAC manufactors.   I've owned and auditioned dozens and dozens and dozens of other gear by a ton of manufactors.

I'll stay with AVA and McIntosh.....for good.

martyo

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #74 on: 19 Aug 2010, 12:02 am »
I think I've mentioned this before. ??

I have an older Van Alstine Fet Valve 500,  which Frank so graciously and generously upgraded to the Ultra+ status.  And I also have a McIntosh MC252 power amp and previously owned MC402 on the way soon.

I love both amps to death!!!!

I have three systems in my house and I love having the option to choose the Mac or the AVA.  Doesn't get any more musically satisfying for me.

AVA and McIntosh are my favorite preamp,  amplifier,  sources and DAC manufactors.   I've owned and auditioned dozens and dozens and dozens of other gear by a ton of manufactors.

I'll stay with AVA and McIntosh.....for good.
[

How cool to have 3 systems! I have a Double Ultra 550+ so I know that. Haven't heard a Mac in years but what I remember back then anyways was very smooth, with a rich 3D midrange. I'm sure I wasn't listening with exceptionally revealing speakers back then either. Maybe the Carver Platinums.
 
Thanks for the insights, Martyo. I guess the best aspect of the older speakers is the need at the time to make speakers more efficient. As for our memory of how great these guys sounded, hey, some of us listened to those speakers with younger ears. Makes it easier to get full frequency response out of a pair of KLH's.  :wink:

I really liked the cabinets and grills on those Pioneers.
Back then I know I had some other tweeks happening too :jester: 8)