AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Cheap and Cheerful HiFi => Topic started by: Netdewt on 9 Jan 2012, 01:40 pm
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I started making this list over on AudioKarma, just thought I'd share here too. The list has expanded beyond a $450 limit, in many cases just for comparison, but that price point and under is still the focus. I got the $450 number from the Cambridge DacMagic. It was the most expensive DAC I could see myself buying when I started the list. For the record, I still do not own a proper DAC because I can't decide! :|
There are plenty of holes in the data. If you can help or have anything to add, post here and I'll see what I can do, or send me a message and I'll add you as a collaborator.
List of DACs "Under $450" (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai84C5yKnfvAdGFBSjNWdjZOYTdPaFpYVHVBVHFDbVE)
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That's a great list Netdewt. We had a discussion with the same topic, but nobody had a complete list on a spread sheet. I'm going to let it ride for a bit before deciding, but I think you may have earned a sticky thread with your first post here, well done and welcome aboard.
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Wow. Very comprehensive list. Awesome work Netdewt! :thumb:
I'm looking for a DAC, & after looking at your list for a bit, "analysis paralysis" set-in very quickly. :o
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"analysis paralysis" set-in very quickly. :o
:) I do have some obsessive tendencies. I think the fact that I still have not bought one says something. Haha!
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You are missing on that list EE Mini Max DAC2 and Audio gd 3.1.
Opps, I meant the Audio gd 2.1
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Thanks, I had not heard of the EE.
The Audio-gd line is on there. 3.1 is on line 60.
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I was going to suggest the new Wyred for Sound but it's on there! Great list. I'm DAC shopping and would appreciate any comments on the new Wyred offering. I'm also looking at used Tranquility and Benchmark DAC's and the full sized Wyred DAC1.
Is the compact Wyred a clever little toy or can it compete with the big boys? So many options...
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Thats a serious list.....I'll check it out and see what others I may have found that aren't on there but I doubt it will be many...touche'
Is it downloadable??
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Fantastic, thank you. :thumb:
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Thats a serious list.....I'll check it out and see what others I may have found that aren't on there but I doubt it will be many...touche'
Is it downloadable??
I used Google Chrome to open the link. There I clicked on 'File' and downloaded the file in Excel format. If you can't get it to work I can send it to you.
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Wow, this will come in handy. Thanks :thumb:
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www.anedio.com
Thanks for the list. You missed that one I think.
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Added that and the dB DACs I noticed being advertised on this site.
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Awesome list. You have too much time on your hands. :lol:
How did you get a spreadsheet to display on the site?
Rocket_Ronny
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Now stickyfied.
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Since this thread is about DACs that well exceed the limits for this circle, it should be moved to Solid State.
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I used Google Chrome to open the link. There I clicked on 'File' and downloaded the file in Excel format. If you can't get it to work I can send it to you.
I got it, its a Google DOC so it just jumped into my docs.....I was checking them out today....thats a cool list and.....maybe it will be easy to update each year now that all the websites are there....I didn't know Maverick had a new DAC until I saw the list......pretty soon there should be a Virtue DAC to add.
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Great list. Only two things I can see:
1) the Eastern Electric Minimax Tube Dac is $750, but it's not the "plus" - the plus is a new version that costs $1100.
http://www.morningstaraudio.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=13&catid=6
2) for some reason, you don't have the excellent $450 Yulong D100, even though you have the cheaper DAH1 and the more expensive D18. The info on the D100 is here:
http://tamaudio.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=76
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Since this thread is about DACs that well exceed the limits for this circle, it should be moved to Solid State.
The purpose of the higher priced DACs, for me, is just for technical comparison. I am not trying to catalog all DACs, just lower priced DACs; some higher priced ones have been added for WOW factor. Also, there are tube DACs in the list. See:
The list has expanded beyond a $450 limit, in many cases just for comparison, but that price point and under is still the focus.
for some reason, you don't have the excellent $450 Yulong D100
Sorry, I can't keep up! Again, I welcome help!
Hey, do you guys think my "Sample" (i.e. SPDIF), "USBmax" (USB sample), oversample, and upsample categories make sense? Many manufacturers do not give this info or make it clear what each stat means. It makes those things difficult to find. Should I throw in the towel on any of them? Any categories I should add?
Now stickyfied.
Awesome list. You have too much time on your hands. :lol:
Thanks for the enthusiasm. The list is 2 years in the making. I have some kind of ADD, and I work at a computer. :)
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Netdewt- Well Done!
One of the best first posts I've ever seen. Welcome aboard this crazy train and I look forward to future posts by you but must admit that's a tough act to follow.
Later
Don
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The purpose of the higher priced DACs, for me, is just for technical comparison. I am not trying to catalog all DACs, just lower priced DACs; some higher priced ones have been added for WOW factor.
Are the prices of the DIY options the raw boards/components only? (i.e. not including case, power supply etc)
Do you include digital crossovers with digital input and analog output (as they are, after all, DACs)?
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Are the prices of the DIY options the raw boards/components only? (i.e. not including case, power supply etc)
Do you include digital crossovers with digital input and analog output (as they are, after all, DACs)?
Yes, and some of them are totally made up. I wanted them to place somewhere on the list, so I gave them all a price. I honestly have no idea what some of the DIY DACs would cost, plus it all depends on if you build cheap or expensive. Some DIY kits come with PSU, most don't... ideas on how I should do that? Some of the DIY DACs listed are just plans, no one even makes a board (like the ezDAC, and the discontinued Monica).
No, honestly I've never heard of a digital crossover before. I vaguely understand what crossovers do for speakers, that's about it. I made this list to learn because I don't do this for a living, it's just a hobby, and one of many.
The criteria for the list were:
- it must be an external DAC, so that it can be used in a stereo system easily, no plug in cards to other components or internal PC cards
- it must have outs to an amp, headphone out only DACs are excluded
- it must be a stand alone unit - I realize this excludes great stuff like the Peachtree integrateds and CD players with digital inputs, but it just gets too confusing. Although I did include headamp/DAC combos because there are a lot of them and they don't seem to add to the cost too much
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I think that Netdewt has done an amazing job compiling the list of dacs under $450.00 and even though it includes higher priced units I would hate to see this thread moved.
I still think Netdewt has too much time on his hands. :lol:
Rocket_Ronny
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No, honestly I've never heard of a digital crossover before. I vaguely understand what crossovers do for speakers, that's about it. I made this list to learn because I don't do this for a living, it's just a hobby, and one of many.
It's like a DAC, except that instead of a single channel out, it has two or more. You can still use any of them with just a single output channel output though.
I'll post some links for consideration a bit later.
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The list is a great reference tool. Thanks for putting in the time.
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I noticed that you only listed the inputs on the DAC's. When I was searching for a cheap DAC with a headphone jack, it was important that I also had RCA outputs. (I bought a NuForce uDAC2 that also has a coax output.)
I noticed that outputs aren't listed. I know it might more work that you might not want to do. Just saying.
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The criteria for the list were:
- it must have outs to an amp, headphone out only DACs are excluded
All DACs on the list should have RCA outs, unless I missed some. I suppose it's possible that one with only balanced outs got on the list, but I'm pretty sure everything has RCA. If it only has headphone out, I meant to exclude it completely from the list.
Is that what you mean?
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All DACs on the list should have RCA outs, unless I missed some. I suppose it's possible that one with only balanced outs got on the list, but I'm pretty sure everything has RCA. If it only has headphone out, I meant to exclude it completely from the list.
Is that what you mean?
Yup, sounds good! (Pun intended. :green:) Now that you mention that headphone-out-only DAC's are excluded, I noticed that the Fiio's aren't there.
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I've enjoyed the Audio-gd NFB-11. It is a combo DAC/Pre/HP amp with high/low gain controls, volume control, RCA outs and USB/optical/coax inputs. At $250 it's C&C.
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Did everyone see this cheerful review?http://stereomojo.com/Grant%20Audio%20Tube%20DAC11.htm/GrantAudioTubeDAC11.htm
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Well now I see it. Pretty glowing review.
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Did everyone see this cheerful review?http://stereomojo.com/Grant%20Audio%20Tube%20DAC11.htm/GrantAudioTubeDAC11.htm
Thanks wisnon ! :thumb: I'll reference this in the Cheap & Cheerful DAC-11 thread.
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This is a great list. Very helpful. Thanks.
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Did everyone see this cheerful review?http://stereomojo.com/Grant%20Audio%20Tube%20DAC11.htm/GrantAudioTubeDAC11.htm
This dac is built by Yulong. Chinese company but they have demonstrated that cheap doesnt mean poor quality.
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Netdewt,
This is diy, but should come under your $450 mark, or get very close. I'm listening to Sheldon's dac
for the past month, and it is really good.
Link:
http://getinthewoodchipper.com/?p=302
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It would be nice to see a similar list of headphone amps...
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It would be nice to see a similar list of headphone amps...
Been working on a list for a while, but they are mixed with 1k amps. Will try to have this organized soon.
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I started making this list over on AudioKarma, just thought I'd share here too. The list has expanded beyond a $450 limit, in many cases just for comparison, but that price point and under is still the focus. I got the $450 number from the Cambridge DacMagic. It was the most expensive DAC I could see myself buying when I started the list. For the record, I still do not own a proper DAC because I can't decide! :|
There are plenty of holes in the data. If you can help or have anything to add, post here and I'll see what I can do, or send me a message and I'll add you as a collaborator.
List of DACs "Under $450" (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai84C5yKnfvAdGFBSjNWdjZOYTdPaFpYVHVBVHFDbVE)
I'm basically looking to spend under $500 as well and the first two that got my attention were the Schitt ( hope the spelling is correct )Bifrost and the Grant Fidelity Tube DAC 11. The Tube DAC gets some praise here at AC while the Bifrost seems to have a following over at AudioAsylum. However, neither seem to be a slam dunk in their stock form, but that's just me trying to read between the lines.
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Bifrost first last and in between. Heard in a 50 k syatem last week and it didn't disgrace itself.
Needs 150 hrs burn in. Optical is better than spdif. DO NOT get the usb verison - the toslink from a Mac is better.
cheers
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Do you have the ODAC on the list from:
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/
$99 from JDSLabs...
Have one on the way!
Alex
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This one is worth mentioning ....... and it's on its way .
Valab WM8741 24bit 192k USB DAC - Dual WM8741
$ 330 + $ 50 shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-WM8741-24bit-192k-USB-DAC-Dual-WM8741-Balanced-XLR-Output-Silver-Face-/280907938626?pt=US_CD_Players_Recorders&hash=item41676afb42 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-WM8741-24bit-192k-USB-DAC-Dual-WM8741-Balanced-XLR-Output-Silver-Face-/280907938626?pt=US_CD_Players_Recorders&hash=item41676afb42)
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This one is worth mentioning ....... and it's on its way .
Valab WM8741 24bit 192k USB DAC - Dual WM8741
$ 330 + $ 50 shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-WM8741-24bit-192k-USB-DAC-Dual-WM8741-Balanced-XLR-Output-Silver-Face-/280907938626?pt=US_CD_Players_Recorders&hash=item41676afb42 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-WM8741-24bit-192k-USB-DAC-Dual-WM8741-Balanced-XLR-Output-Silver-Face-/280907938626?pt=US_CD_Players_Recorders&hash=item41676afb42)
Interesting. Though you can also get the Audio-gd NFB 3 for the same money with discrete output (no opamps) and much beefier power supply. No xlr or optical out though.
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Check this out at RMAF in Avatar Acoustics room. With hadphone amp and preamp, it is rumored to be less than $400 and the sound of a tube Dac. It is made by AMR audio.
The iFi iDAC instantly transforms your computer audio into a 24bit/192kHz audiophile-grade
music source. 24bit/192kHz music has 6.5x more resolution than normal CD.
ESS Sabre® Hyperstream® DAC, one of the most advanced DAC chips, is at the core of the
iDAC allowing it to execute ‘Bit-Perfect’ High-Defi nition audio.
Asynchronous USB transfer with ZeroJitter Lite® technology and an with an internal master
clock, lock out all jitter coming from the computer clock.
Directdrive® technology get rids of the need for coupling capacitors, delivering a very high
damping factor with undistorted, uncoloured sound through all headphones.
WHAT COMPUTER AUDIO HAS BEEN WAITING FOR
iDAC
24/192KHz HD USB DAC
For Mac OSX this equiment can be plugged in directly.
For MS Windows, please install the driver software from the iFi website BEFORE connecting this equipment to the computer.
Specifi cations
• Compatible with High-Speed USB 2.0 (24Bit/192khz)
• Input Voltage: AC 100 - 240V, 50/60Hz
• Power (max.): 2.5W
• Dimensions: 156(l) x 68(w) x 28(h) mm
• Weight: 200g (0.5 lbs)
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I have the Schiit Bifrost and it is very good. Although I did not do "technical" type testing. I did compare it to my Benchmark USB DAC1 and it sounding about 80 to 90% as good. So as one poster noted, it can hold it's own.
It is very neutral and very clean in it's presentation of the music. I don't use it as a USB device. I use it via Toslink.
IMHO
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I have the Schiit Bifrost and it is very good. Although I did not do "technical" type testing. I did compare it to my Benchmark USB DAC1 and it sounding about 80 to 90% as good. So as one poster noted, it can hold it's own.
It is very neutral and very clean in it's presentation of the music. I don't use it as a USB device. I use it via Toslink.
IMHO
What do you like about the Benchmark over the Bifrost? Thanks.
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I have the Schiit Bifrost and it is very good. Although I did not do "technical" type testing. I did compare it to my Benchmark USB DAC1 and it sounding about 80 to 90% as good. So as one poster noted, it can hold it's own.
It is very neutral and very clean in it's presentation of the music. I don't use it as a USB device. I use it via Toslink.
IMHO
I'm happy with my Bifrost as well. I might go for the high end model coming out soon... not the Gungnir but the next one, it's supposed to be their top end DAC for around $1500.
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For $199 you can get Calyx Audio - Coffee USB dac (ESS Technology ES9023 chip ) / line level preamp with volume control & mini- plug headphone jack.
(http://www.charismaaudio.com/products/calyx/pict/Coffee_2.jpg)
Overview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7oYqVRA4UQ)
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What do you like about the Benchmark over the Bifrost? Thanks.
Well to answer this question..(don't want to get off topic, maybe this will be helpful?)
The Benchmark USB DAC1 that I have has the USB as standard. The Bifrost has it as an option, but I did not get it. The Benchmark can also be used as a headphone amp, and really a very good one indeed. The Bifrost does not have a headphone option. Also, the Benchmark has a variable gain knob and allows for fixed gain. The Bifrost does not have that. So in many ways the Benchmark is more versatile.
Also the Benchmark is slightly better in resolution. It also is a bit smoother across the freq band. These sonic qualities are very marginal and mostly I hear them through the headphones. Both are very musical. Maybe the Bifrost is better here, the Benchmark is more clinical sounding. YMMV.
I could live with each one very well, and can recommend either one without hesitation.
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This is from the Enjoy the Music website of 2012 RMAF coverage, fourth picture down. AMR IDac/Pre/Class A headphone amp for $299.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/rmaf_2012/sunday/
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This is from the Enjoy the Music website of 2012 RMAF coverage, fourth picture down. AMR IDac/Pre/Class A headphone amp for $299.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/rmaf_2012/sunday/
Here's a slightly more complete report, and I mean slightly, from a London show.
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/nas2012/nas2012_ifi.htm (http://www.theaudiobeat.com/nas2012/nas2012_ifi.htm)
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Here's a slightly more complete report, and I mean slightly, from a London show.
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/nas2012/nas2012_ifi.htm (http://www.theaudiobeat.com/nas2012/nas2012_ifi.htm)
Thank you for that site. That IUSB for about $150 is said to clean up even the highest priced USB DAC's that are in use today. AMR says it even improves their $5K DAC.
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I see this topic began months ago....a year is like an eternity in the DAC business and there are at least a couple new entries to consider...
AudioEngine D1: 24bit bit depth, USB and Optical (digital) inputs, volume control, 1/8" headphone AND rca outs....$169.00: http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-D1#.UHyS91HZ0VA
Audioquest Dragonfly USB: 24 bit depth, USB only, 1/8" output only, internal volume control, thumb drive sized....$249.00: http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragonfly-dac
I wanted to hear the famed ESS Sabre chip in action and I loved the extremely small size (for traveling) so I just bought the AQ Dragonfly last week and I'm evaluating it now.
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Should also add the Ross Martin Audio PCM1794A DAC. Recently took my modded Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 out of my computer system and put the RMA DAC back in. Really enjoying the speed, detail, and microdynamics.
Gotta admit, I'm interested in trying the Dragonfly out. Might pick it up for my wife, who uses headphones at work.
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I recently also just acquired the Audioquest Dragonfly USB as described above and have had it a couple of days now. I'm blown away at how good it sounds for the money. It is an Async design that supports incoming stream up to 24/96 and the unit does not up-sample (which I prefer).
I previously had an HRT Streamer II+ and this Audioquest unit beats it easily for quality and accuracy. While the Dragonfly can be used with both headphones and an integrated amp, I'm using it in my home office feeding a Creek Integrated amp and this combination seems to work well. Only downside is that you need to use an adapter for phone jack to RCA output.
Best settings are to leave your computer volume setting at maximum to avoid using its analog volume control. Also if using a Windows platform, use the Wasapi output add-on that bypasses all Windows audio processing including volume control. I combine this with Foobar2000 as my music platform.
Only downside is that is doesn't natively support 24/192 bitstreams.
While it won't replace my Bryston DAC anytime soon, this is a great deal at $ 250.
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Check this out at RMAF in Avatar Acoustics room. With hadphone amp and preamp, it is rumored to be less than $400 and the sound of a tube Dac. It is made by AMR audio.
The iFi iDAC instantly transforms your computer audio into a 24bit/192kHz audiophile-grade
music source. 24bit/192kHz music has 6.5x more resolution than normal CD.
ESS Sabre® Hyperstream® DAC, one of the most advanced DAC chips, is at the core of the
iDAC allowing it to execute ‘Bit-Perfect’ High-Defi nition audio.
Asynchronous USB transfer with ZeroJitter Lite® technology and an with an internal master
clock, lock out all jitter coming from the computer clock.
Directdrive® technology get rids of the need for coupling capacitors, delivering a very high
damping factor with undistorted, uncoloured sound through all headphones.
WHAT COMPUTER AUDIO HAS BEEN WAITING FOR
iDAC
24/192KHz HD USB DAC
For Mac OSX this equiment can be plugged in directly.
For MS Windows, please install the driver software from the iFi website BEFORE connecting this equipment to the computer.
Specifi cations
• Compatible with High-Speed USB 2.0 (24Bit/192khz)
• Input Voltage: AC 100 - 240V, 50/60Hz
• Power (max.): 2.5W
• Dimensions: 156(l) x 68(w) x 28(h) mm
• Weight: 200g (0.5 lbs)
Here is IFI's new website
.http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/
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Yes Tom,
I think the iDac and iUSB Power (retail $500 for the combo) will be a killer solution besting stuff all the way up to say the $2500 range. I think the combo will soon be discovered to be an INCREDIBLE value proposition.
People need to take a serious look, because this stuff is chock full of innovative tech. This could well be what many have been looking for....
Just on the iUSB, I got nice insight from the designer...
Why a USB Power Supply?
by iFi Audio on Thursday, November 1, 2012 at 11:43am ·
We get asked this a lot. Why would anyone need this Box?
It is simple. USB carries audio AND power. Many USB Audio devices power at least some part, often all of the Audio Device from the power supplied by the Computer via its USB Port. The power supply from USB Ports on PC’s is variable in quality, but always contaminated by noise. Have a look here comparing the noise from the best (lowest noise) USB Port on a PC optimised for audio idling… When playing music this is worse.
This is a lot of noise! Many common Laptops and PC’s put out tens of millivolts of noise. That is as much noise as you often get music signal and much more noise than the delicate, small details and nuances in a musical performance. Another issue is the presence of a ground connection between the Computer and the USB Audio device. This can create earth/ground loops that even if they produce no audible hum or buzz, sound quality can be impaired.
So it is little surprise that computer based audio often fails to live up to the expected and possible excellent sound quality.So why do manufacturers keep relying on USB Bus Power? Cost plays a role, as does portability and practical considerations.
Adding the iUSBPower USB Power supply and breaking the ground loop using the IsoEarth gives a major improvement in clarity, detail and musicality. Any audio device starts with the power it receives and with the iUSBPower USB Power supply your USB Audio device gets power so pure, it has even lower noise than a battery!
But the true secret weapon is the ability to break ground loops. We have measured an improvement of over 10 times even in system that are already optimised and have no audible noise.
Like · · Share
>>>>This is a Critical part of ANY highend USB based music server!
November 4 at 4:38pm · Like · 1
>>>>> is the power supply galvanic isolated, pardon my ignorance.
November 6 at 10:01am · Like
iFi Audio Not sure in which way you mean this? In order to keep compatibility with high speed USB2 (480MBps) to allow multi-channel use at high sample rates/resolution we cannot employ USB isolators. All current isolators are limited to 12MBPS or 2 Channels at 96KHz, which we felt was not acceptable for modern audio. So we cannot fully, galvanically isolate the DAC and PC.
However, full isolation is not strictly needed. USB Signalling is differential, so in theory only the two signal lines are required. In practice we need somehow a ground reference. If this ground reference comes only through the USB cable, all is well.
If there additional path through other equipment and mains wiring things become problematic.
So our "IsoEarth" feature allows breaking the ground connection in a way that is reliably safe for attached equipment (sorry to be vague, but we consider the precise method a "trade secret") and does not require "earth lift" or "cheater" plugs.
As we also interrupt the power line from the computer and substitute our own super regulated very low noise supply from the Computers power we essentially only leave the two USB signal lines active and connecting between PC and DAC is IsoEarth is engaged.
I have measured differences in of around ten times (20dB) with IsoEarth engaged in systems we use for testing - that is they are already quite well treated regarding the ground noise problem!
When testing a USB Isolator marketed for Audio in the same setup I observed similar gains in ground noise levels as with the iUSBPower, suggesting that in our system at least breaking the ground line and full isolation perform comparable, objectively. I did observe that the 5V output from the USB Isolator was quite noisy due the use of an isolating DC-DC converter, which basically a small switched mode supply.
Sorry for the lengthy missive, but it is not a simple subject.
November 6 at 10:29am · Like
>>>>> how does this device actulaly work? I am not sure how it is to be used. It is not a USB-Spdif converter, so what actually is it? How would it be used with such a converter? Is the iUSB powered by a SMPS?
Wednesday at 12:20am · Edited · Like
>>>>> Is there a manual online?
Wednesday at 12:17am · Like
iFi Audio ,
First, you can find more details and manuals etc. On-Line.
Secondly,the iUSBPower plugs into the USB connection between the PC/Mac and any USB Audio Device. Some of the more extreme High End gear does not draw power from the USB, the vast majority of USB Audio Devices, including USB to SPDIF Converters do.
In recent times we have seen some attempts to for example split up USB Cables and Lithium Polymer batteries to substitute the power supply, however most batteries when actually supplying are quite noisy (see our AP2 measurement which includes a 9V Dry Cell, rechargables are worse).
The iUSBPower contains noise filtering using multiple LCR filters and a so-called super regulator (as opposed to a simple cheap 3-pin regulator) which is similar but not identical to the one described by Walt Jung under this name.
As a result you isolate the USB Audio Device (including USB to SPDIF converters) from the computers power supply and you give a power supply much cleaner than that from the Computer.
Additionally we have also build in some ground impedance management and the option to break the USB ground connection entirely. This can help a lot with noise loops.
Third, you ask is it powered by an SMPS, plugtop type which we supply, however any source of around 9V DC may be applied (at your own risk, mind you). As we wanted a simple way of being able to sell and use the iFi worldwide and we wanted to avoid wasting power, we had to use a custom low noise SMPS.
In basic principle an SMPS is a much better choice power supply than using 50/60Hz rectified. The high frequency at which they produce their AC means transformers can be small and thus minimise noise leakage from the mains, they always use choke input filtering and the high frequency means relatively small components are required to filter any noise.
Another factor, such a supply may be made universal (runs on any mains voltage/frequency current, even DC) and if well designed efficiency will be very high, well over 90%.
However, many common inexpensive examples are build so badly they barely pass FCC requirements. This means they radiate a lot of noise back into the mains and often have very large levels of noise on the output.
The first examples we bought straight in shops like Radio-shack were horrendous. The noise on both the mains input side and the output side was sufficiently high to be visible easily on cheap oscilloscopes. output ripple went from 10's to 100's of millivolt.
Opening them up revealed that the RF filtering was not fitted, that the chokes and capacitors where of insufficient value and that several parts that would have produced low noise where missing, even though there where spaces provisioned on the PCB to fit them.
So we worked with a factory to produce our own plug-top power supply, which not only has all the extra parts fitted but goes beyond this. The result is a power supply that leaks very little noise into the mains (you can measure it, but it needs an expensive analyser, scope traces are clean).
Overall, a common linear supply using a transformer, common rectifiers and a 3-Pin regulator will produce more noise (including noise radiated into the mains) than our SMPS. Do not expect most SMPS's to perform similarly.
Finally, why don't you just try it? Ask our US distributor for a loan unit.
Wednesday at 4:43am · Like
>>>>> Thanks for the detailed and thorough explanation. I can now see more clearly the benefits and I do agree that a properly made SMPS is actually an advantage.
Yesterday at 7:33am · Edited · Like
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Emotiva XDA2 for $399 (http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xda2) on sale for 349 right now - shipping on 11/26 according to Emotiva's website.
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All current isolators are limited to 12MBPS or 2 Channels at 96KHz,
That's a good point, they all (well a few at least) seem to use the Adum4160 which only runs up to 12 MBPs.
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Great post wisnon. Since AMR insists the IUSB even makes their $5K Dac sound better, $199 add on sounds like a great deal. I hope to give it a try soon.
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Did you know that stocks are exhausted till late next week? I got the last and it was the demo unit. LoL
Delivery early next week. I dont think they expected he instant demand, but as I say, power accessories are going to become the new rage in the coming years as the iPod crowd matures and steps up from MP3 to lossless.
I have not heard them yet, but from talks I had and studying the tech, the iDac+power combo will be a KILLER. It will discombobulate the market at the current price-point. Hold on tight.
We may have to rename this cheap and exhilerating!
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More insight into iFi thinking:
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2012/11/interview-with-thorsten-loesch-ifi.html
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More insight into iFi thinking:
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2012/11/interview-with-thorsten-loesch-ifi.html
Thorstan is a huge believer in tweaking and the tube sound. He has tried his best at making the Idac sound like tube. We shall see.
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Here is a review of the IUSB on Audioquest's Drgonfly.
http://www.audiostream.com/content/ifi-iusbpower-taking-audioquest-draginfly-dac-notch
Watch for a later review of the IDAC from the same revierer. Also watch for many other upcoming reviews. Even Harry Pearson has some for review.
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This one appears to be hot little dac under $400 / Made in France. Looks interesting ....
Micromega MyDAC
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=74039)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=74040)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=74041)
John Darko review (http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2012/10/micromega-mydac-review/)
Robert Harley preview (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/product-preview-micromega-mydac-the-399-miracle/)
Impression from Audio Asylum (http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/16/165992.html)
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And here is John Darko's review on the AMR IFI IUSB.
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2013/01/amr-ifi-iusbpower-review/
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Here's another review of the Micromega MyDac. Sounds promising.
http://cheaptubeaudio.blogspot.com/2013/02/review-micromega-mydac-part-i_4.html
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Not really sure where to post this, but here's another addition for your list:
I very recently purchased a Non-Oversampling NOS DAC TDA1543 DIR9001 SPDIF Coax & Optical w/ 9V NiMH charger on eBay from Christophe in France for my 3rd system (Starting Point Systems is the name of his company which is mostly non-audio). I'm breaking it in on my main system out of convenience and for reference. To cut to the chase - I can't think of a better $125 I've ever spent on an audio component and I've gotten some really good deals over the last 30+ years on used EQ. The ~$125 is for a new DAC + the couple of extras needed to complete the unit.
My system:
Dedicated AC audio circuit
MIT Z Stabilizer + MIT Z Strip
Well Tempered TT + upgrades w/ Benz Glider + all the other things needed for a good turntable system
Sony DVP NC650V (easily better than several much more expensive Sony ES units I've tried)
SqueezeBox Touch (very little good FM left in my listening range even with a large antenna + rotor.
Sadly no more OTA FM for me - otherwise a Kenwood KT-990D tuner which I very highly recommend)
2x - Monarchy Audio DIPs (one for the DVD player and a second for the SqueezeBox + computer)
Very highly modified MSB Gold Link + highly modified MSB P1000 power supply
Jeff Rowland Consonance preamp w/ phono + upgrades
Jeff Rowland Model 102 amp + upgrades
Mod Squad Deluxe Line Drive (signal routing for recording)
MSB ADD-1 w/ Monolithic Sound HC2 power supply + upgrades (ADC for recording)
M Audio - Audiophile 24/96 sound card + additional audiophile type upgrades for my PC (for recording)
MAC, Mod Squad, MIT, Revelation Audio and several decent DIY cables
Highly modified Energy RC-10 monitors (better or much better than several very well regarded $1500 monitors I've owned or auditioned in my setup)
Epos ELS sub (not modded - yet. Excellent sub for audio, though not so good for HT)
I would not normally include my system components or may perhaps put them at the end of my comments if I thought it would be helpful, but I want to give you some idea of the kind of rig I'm listening to this little DAC on as I write these comments. Is the Starting Point DAC the equal of my highly modded MSB Gold Link setup - no. Is it in the ballpark - yes. It lacks detail, is less 3D and is not as laid-back by comparison, but not by a large margin and has a very similar type of musicality. When I have components in my system that don't cut it or are not a good match - they do not last long. Listening to the Starting Point DAC for many hours this past week+ as I work in my studio has been a real pleasure and at times has made me forget which DAC is currently installed in the system. I can't think of a better recommendation.
Is the Starting Point NOS DAC right for your system? I don't know and neither does anyone else, most particularly those who haven’t heard it - regardless of their rational or supposed expertise. We all have different tastes and a system is a system - not a single component. All your components have to work together to make a system to your liking. What I can say is that regardless of all the audiophile BS we read on a regular basis, this is a component very worthy of consideration. Is it the DAC for your main system? I don't know. It works very well in mine and it will be a great addition to my 3rd system. What I feel confident in saying is that if you like MSB or similar sounding DACs (like I do) then you will find this an almost unbelievable bargain. This is not an ad for Christophe (Starting Point Systems) and his creations, but an honest opinion from a long time audiophile, listening to one of my favorite musicians – Pierre Bensusan – via Christophe’s little DAC board as I write this and really enjoying it.
As previously stated I bought this DAC for my 3rd system and I know that I'm going to be very happy with it in that setup. When the transport/DAC in my 2nd system dies (the player has an internal upgrade DAC board) dies - hopefully a long time from now - I will likely add one of these to that system as well.
Cheers,
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The Meridian Explorer, at $300, is one. It sounds fine. I plan on doing a blind test between mine and the headphone output of my MacBook to see if it's actually any better...
But frankly the idea of spending $300, let alone $450, on a mere DAC in the context of a system that's "maximum *** price = $1000 (I'll accept 20% overhead given variations in 2nd hand market and currency difference)" is completely absurd.
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But frankly the idea of spending $300, let alone $450, on a mere DAC in the context of a system that's "maximum *** price = $1000 (I'll accept 20% overhead given variations in 2nd hand market and currency difference)" is completely absurd.
I won't go as far as saying it's absurd, but I also think it's too much money for a sub $1k system.
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But frankly the idea of spending $300, let alone $450, on a mere DAC in the context of a system that's "maximum *** price = $1000 (I'll accept 20% overhead given variations in 2nd hand market and currency difference)" is completely absurd.
Well, not actually, as it depends on the system. I'm presently running one with an Oppo DV-971 as transport, an Audio GD 2.1 DAC using it as preamp as well, the power amp section of a NAD 3020B, Magneplanar MMG speakers, interconnects from Tuan (Sonny) and a Monster digital cable, speaker cables are White Lightning Moonshine from Wal-Mart, and there's a free Pioneer turntable sitting there that can be hooked into the NAD with a couple of cables switched. Total, complete out of pocket cost $835, everything except cables and the Oppo purchased used. Not only does the SQ rival most of what I've heard anywhere within 4x the cost, but there's $165 wiggle room to improve the DAC to that $300 price point. Granted, I think the $450 DAC would be pushing it as well, but depending on system I think you could reasonably hit the $300 mark in Cheap and Cheerful. In a slightly unreasonable system, one could argue the $450 mark, so it's left in.
A separate argument to ponder, what do you get in SQ and/or features moving up from $200, to $300, to $450? Or, in a C&C system, should you stick to one of the under $100 DAC's listed in other threads?
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Well, not actually, as it depends on the system. I'm presently running one with an Oppo DV-971 as transport, an Audio GD 2.1 DAC using it as preamp as well, the power amp section of a NAD 3020B, Magneplanar MMG speakers, interconnects from Tuan (Sonny) and a Monster digital cable, speaker cables are White Lightning Moonshine from Wal-Mart, and there's a free Pioneer turntable sitting there that can be hooked into the NAD with a couple of cables switched. Total, complete out of pocket cost $835, everything except cables and the Oppo purchased used. Not only does the SQ rival most of what I've heard anywhere within 4x the cost, but there's $165 wiggle room to improve the DAC to that $300 price point. Granted, I think the $450 DAC would be pushing it as well, but depending on system I think you could reasonably hit the $300 mark in Cheap and Cheerful. In a slightly unreasonable system, one could argue the $450 mark, so it's left in.
A separate argument to ponder, what do you get in SQ and/or features moving up from $200, to $300, to $450? Or, in a C&C system, should you stick to one of the under $100 DAC's listed in other threads?
The obvious question there is, what makes you think the whatever brand DAC is not just superfluous? That is to say, what makes it any different from using the Oppo player's DAC and the NAD integrated's preamp section?
Now, your DAC may have some functional reason to be there. For example, perhaps it has a remote control and your NAD integrated doesn't. For example, I bought the Explorer primarily because it has two outputs: a variable one that can drive a nearfield system's amp, and a fixed one that can feed a headphone amp. (And, frankly, because I like the Meridian brand.)
But sonically, unless the DAC actually has a more important function than mere digital-analog conversion (bass management, EQ, something like that) using a separate one seems to be just a waste of the perfectly transparent DAC in the Oppo player.
In a well-optimized "C&C" system, usually the DAC in use should not be a separate box, but built into the source. Even if the source is, say, an AirPort Express.
Anyone interested in a level-matched same/different blind listening test between a Meridian Explorer and the analog output of a MacBook or an AirPort Express?
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If you don't think some DAC's sound remarkably different then we really have nowhere to go here, you should use the cheapest DAC you can find, preferably included with whatever $50 CDP is on sale this week at Sears.
To answer your question for myself, the Audio GD DAC sounds significantly better than the DAC in the Oppo and somewhat better than other inexpensive DAC's I have lying around here. Going broader with your question, I think you bring up a good point. I know the da Vinci digital system sounds vastly superior to anything I've ever heard, albeit for something around $100k if memory serves. But everything below that point I find hard to quantify. I share your doubts about what you get for the money in various products and wouldn't know what to recommend on the list here beyond the few I've personally heard.
I've been told that between different chipsets there are some small family differences, but the real sound of the product comes from implementation of the digital circuits, the analog output, and the power supply regulation. This makes common sense to me. Therefore it's not unreasonable to assume a stand alone product may take more care with this than the digital section included with a price point product. But that assumption doesn't make it a rule, only a starting point for investigation. I wish I could sample fifty different digital products in my home so I could make a more informed statement, but going on the 8-10 units I have here, better quality DAC implementations do sound better, poor quality ones sound much the same.
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Keep watch from IFI Micro. Soon to have an add-on that will make any sub 1K dac sound better, maybe even some 2-3k dacs. It should be about $300 or less.
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If you don't think some DAC's sound remarkably different then we really have nowhere to go here, you should use the cheapest DAC you can find, preferably included with whatever $50 CDP is on sale this week at Sears.
Sonic difference is simply not something that intelligent people "think" about. Its presence or absence is a verifiable, falsifiable claim.
After participating in an ACTUAL test (level-matched and blind not the meaningless "I put it in my system and it sounded amazing" sighted BS) between a Meridian 508.20 factory upgraded to 508.24 spec (a machine with over $4k invested in it, between purchase and upgrade) and a commodity Samsung DVD-A/SACD/DVD player ca. 2005 (purchased at a big box for maybe $60) where we all thought the Meridian was much better when we could see what was playing but were clearly guessing when we couldn't, I stopped caring entirely about DAC quality.
Sadly, there are too many people who haven't taken the clarifying step of participating in an actual listening test, so still think that commodity parts have "sound quality."
Furthermore, your claim that "better quality DAC implementations do sound better, poor quality ones sound much the same" is on its face absurd to any thoughtful person. "Better" parts should converge to "no sonic character," whereas there are many ways to screw up. So here are the real options:
1) the good stuff all sounds the same and the junk falls short in various different ways,
2) your conception of "better" simply has it backwards, and the parts that you imagine to be "better quality" are actually the broken/incompetently-designed ones, or
3) it's all in the head, and has absolutely nothing to do with the actual sonic/electrical performance of the part in question.
My hunch is most 3, with some 2 if your so-called "better quality" means expensive "high end" boutique parts, as "high end" audio is chock full of rank incompetence.
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Sonic difference is simply not something that intelligent people "think" about. Its presence or absence is a verifiable, falsifiable claim.
After participating in an ACTUAL test (level-matched and blind not the meaningless "I put it in my system and it sounded amazing" sighted BS) between a Meridian 508.20 factory upgraded to 508.24 spec (a machine with over $4k invested in it, between purchase and upgrade) and a commodity Samsung DVD-A/SACD/DVD player ca. 2005 (purchased at a big box for maybe $60) where we all thought the Meridian was much better when we could see what was playing but were clearly guessing when we couldn't, I stopped caring entirely about DAC quality.
Sadly, there are too many people who haven't taken the clarifying step of participating in an actual listening test, so still think that commodity parts have "sound quality."
Furthermore, your claim that "better quality DAC implementations do sound better, poor quality ones sound much the same" is on its face absurd to any thoughtful person. "Better" parts should converge to "no sonic character," whereas there are many ways to screw up. So here are the real options:
1) the good stuff all sounds the same and the junk falls short in various different ways,
2) your conception of "better" simply has it backwards, and the parts that you imagine to be "better quality" are actually the broken/incompetently-designed ones, or
3) it's all in the head, and has absolutely nothing to do with the actual sonic/electrical performance of the part in question.
My hunch is most 3, with some 2 if your so-called "better quality" means expensive "high end" boutique parts, as "high end" audio is chock full of rank incompetence.
Then you really don't belong in the thread. Of course, your silly rant makes little sense, this being the cheap n cheerful circle. That is something 'intelligent people' think about. Your post is 'absurd to any thoughtful person'. :lol:
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Sonic difference is simply not something that intelligent people "think" about.
Furthermore, your claim ..... is on its face absurd to any thoughtful person.
Ok, I tried to be polite about this, it obviously didn't work. Anybody doltish enough to make those kinds of statements in a public forum displays a unique and singular lack of social skills and just plain common sense that renders any judgment they make of what is intelligent or thoughtful moot.
FYI, the Meridian was a notorious underperformer that anyone with an ear ran quickly away from. You can find them for incredible discounts on the used market if any of them are still working. So your "ACTUAL test" was in fact a rigged affair constructed to fool the unwary and uninformed, apparently it succeeded in at least one example.
As Mr. Garvin noted, there is little reason for you to continue posting in this thread other than to troll, so please don't. Unless of course your posts are an unqualified apology. However I do wish you all the best in finding wonderful sounding audio products in your local Sears or Farm & Home Supply stores.
(Edited to remove stupid statements by me posted in haste)
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With all the hoopla above, regardless of misunderstandings or misleading information for anyone reading this post. The OP created a very useful list of DACs. This thread is a very good one. IMHO
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With all the hoopla above, regardless of misunderstandings or misleading information for anyone reading this post. The OP created a very useful list of DACs. This thread is a very good one. IMHO
I agree, there is lots of information and kudos to all that have put in the effort.
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+1! :thumb:
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This thread is valuable to anyone looking for a well performing DAC at a reasonable price point. I own 3 DAC's, the Parasound Z-Dac reatails for $475 so it doesn't fall under the OP list, nor my BDA-1. But this little darling does.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78714)
The Schiit MODI at $100 it is a champ, powered over USB, obviously USB only but great for a computer based system and you don't need to purchase an after market power cord for your digital front end (sarcasm).
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How does the little Schiit compare to other dacs you own? I've read positive reviews and might pick one up for the office. Thanks
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This thread is valuable to anyone looking for a well performing DAC at a reasonable price point. I own 3 DAC's, the Parasound Z-Dac reatails for $475 so it doesn't fall under the OP list, nor my BDA-1. But this little darling does.
The Schiit MODI at $100 it is a champ, powered over USB, obviously USB only but great for a computer based system and you don't need to purchase an after market power cord for your digital front end (sarcasm).
It looks like Schiit has done it again.
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I've been very happy with my Schiit Bifrost. It's right at $450 w/ USB. The MODI looks neat, just wish it has a 5V input so you could add a power supply, although IFI has a solution for that at 2x the price of the MODI...
http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html
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How does the little Schiit compare to other dacs you own? I've read positive reviews and might pick one up for the office. Thanks
It looks like Schiit has done it again.
Are both of you giving me Schiit?
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How does the little Schiit compare to other dacs you own?
I level match when I compare gear and the Modi holds it's own with the Z-Dac. The Bryston is the best DAC I've heard (my opinion). I originally owned an Ayre QB-9 and I compared the BDA-1 next to the Ayre and well I currently own the Bryston.
For $100 I bought the Modi just to hear what the little unit would sound like, asynch over powered USB. I love the little Schiit!
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I've been very happy with my Schiit Bifrost. It's right at $450 w/ USB. The MODI looks neat, just wish it has a 5V input so you could add a power supply, although IFI has a solution for that at 2x the price of the MODI...
http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html
Yes I agree, the Bifrost is a great DAC for the money. Sounds fabulous, build quality is above average and it can be upgraded.
I had mentioned earlier that for sound it's at least 80% as good as my Benchmark USB DAC1 for much, much less money. I am not surprised the MODI is a big hit for budget minded audiophiles. It's a true "no brainer" choice.
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I ordered this one from Amazon ( $ 295 ) ....... M2Tech hiFace DAC (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CFEWL24/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2BN64FIXRU0CG)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=81879)
Asynchronous data transfer mode on USB 2.0, very low phase noise oscillators and a latest-generation converter capable of operating at up to 384kHz and 32-bits. M2Tech has chosen an input interface XMOS U-series & for the conversion, a Burr-Brown PCM5102A chip was implanted on the other side of the circuit.Standard cd 2v output . Very dynamic sound with clean midrange.
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FYI, the Meridian was a notorious underperformer that anyone with an ear ran quickly away from. You can find them for incredible discounts on the used market if any of them are still working. So your "ACTUAL test" was in fact a rigged affair constructed to fool the unwary and uninformed, apparently it succeeded in at least one example.
Revisionist history is cute, but pointless when the record is out there to expose the revisions as false.
Here are the closing comments in JA's technical notes, with emphasis added:
"It is fashionable in some audiophile circles to deride measurements as not having any connection with sound quality. But when you get a player such as the Meridian 508.24, which measures so close to the theoretical ideal in so many ways, it's hard to resist the temptation to point to its superb sound quality and say, "There!" At minimum, the 508.24's measured performance reveals that Bob Stuart and his talented digital design team at Meridian have done a fabulous job." Source. (http://www.stereophile.com/content/meridian-50824-cd-player-measurements)
As for current used values, yes everyone should expect a very old disk player to be very cheap on the second-hand market. The more interesting comparison (if you're interested, I could care less) would be to compare 508.24 used prices to those of its contemporaries in the "high end" player market such as the Sony XA7ES, Levinson 39, the Pioneer Elite and Wadia players that were similarly priced when new, etc.
The bottom line is that in a "cheap and cheerful" system, a separate DAC is a total waste of money, unless it offers some serious non-sonic benefits, such as remote volume control or the like. For instance, I bought the Meridian Explorer for my nearfield system solely because it has two outputs. So I can keep my nearfield speaker amp on the volume-controlled output, and keep my headphone amp on the line output. No more need to swap wires. That was worth $300 to me. Were I building to a "cheap and cheerful" budget, adding that DAC (or any other) would've been a massive misallocation of resources, though.
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You are aware it's now the middle of June, right? No offence intended, but I've really sort of moved on. I do however wish you all the best of luck in your future endeavors.
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Just in case anyone is in the market for a sub $450 DAC, the Emotiva XDA-2 is currently on for $340 during their summer sale. Has remote volume and 6 inputs including 24/192 async usb, so can make for a very nice/flexible control center for a C&C system, particularly if you pair it with powered speakers. I have it paired up with the Equator D5's which I got for the original $300 price and the combo is a nice desktop system with multiple inputs.
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Stoner acoustics have been creating dirt cheap usb powered dacs, like the UD100 and the UD110 (which was just announced) they are known as the poor mans Odac.
Not a sophisticated design, but good sound.
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Music Direct is currently selling the $800 Marantz NA7004 unit (DAC + Network player) for half price @ $400. Apologies if this has already been mentioned.
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I realize the topic says "Under $450.00" but I want to take that down a few notches further. I am on the verge of buying the latest version Audioquest Dragonfly v1.2.
http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragonfly-dac
Is there anything better for similar $$$ out there to consider or just go for the "fly"?
SN
P.S. - I haven't read through every page of this thread. If my answer is to be found on a few earlier posts, please direct me there! Thanks! :thumb:
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I'd look at the new iFi iDSD too. Really compelling. Includes chargeable battery and can be used with an iPhone or Android phone with the appropriate adaptor. Very cool.
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2013/12/ifis-battery-powered-nano-idsd-dacheadphone-amp/
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I'd look at the new iFi iDSD too. Really compelling. Includes chargeable battery and can be used with an iPhone or Android phone with the appropriate adaptor. Very cool.
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2013/12/ifis-battery-powered-nano-idsd-dacheadphone-amp/
Any reasons why it won't make a good stand alone DAC for red book and FLAC/ALAC type files?
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Here's a new one from Hifimediy. I'd be interested to see how it compares to the iFi DSD dac/amp.
http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/hifime-uh1
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Anyone heard the Maverick D2 w/ 4 inputs ($300), tube or ss output stages. Uses the AD1955 DAC.
http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tubemagic_d2
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I didn't see the M Dac. From audiolab might have missed it, I've been using it for 3yrs. And I haven't had the itch to change great Dac for the money. It's also a pretty good pre amp. Dan
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Has any one tried either of these DAC's from here-
https://hifimediy.com/news/dacs/new-spdif-optical-coaxial-sabre-dac.html
https://hifimediy.com/hifime-uh1
I am interested in them for a cheap and cheerful system that I have in my bedroom- Dayton DTA-100a amp, Monitor Audio S1 speakers and a Denon 1910 DVD player as a source.
Whoops! I did not see the prior post by Sly :duh:
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Anyone heard the Maverick D2 w/ 4 inputs ($300), tube or ss output stages. Uses the AD1955 DAC.
http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tubemagic_d2
Check out the buzz on the Head-fi.org forum on the D2
http://www.head-fi.org/t/608393/maverick-audio-tubemagic-d2-dedicated-dac-review-faq-info-thread
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Halide Design DAC: $450 with captive (up to 7 meters long) USB (including power) and RCA cables, 24 bit/96 kHz, 2014 Stereophile Class A rated, tiny, cryogenically treated, simple (no display/control/drivers), asynchronous design, uses Gordon Rankin's (of Wavelength) Streamlength protocol to reduce jitter.
Sound: seductive/smooth, ease/purity, deep/agile bass, not dry/ruthless, delicacy with power, an ideal balance between resolution and tone, analog/organic, does a good job of imaging and expressing the original space, 2014 Stereophile Class A rated.
Paired with Adam F5 active 2-way stand-mounts (and throwing $50 in for interconnects) you'd have a very nice computer based system.
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If you can do even the most basic DIY then this is an option that is well under $450. Its an new R2R DAC which looks very promising. I will be buying one as soon as the second batch hits the market.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=111048)
Here is the DIY thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/259488-reference-dac-module-discrete-r-2r-sign-magnitude-24-bit-384-khz.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/259488-reference-dac-module-discrete-r-2r-sign-magnitude-24-bit-384-khz.html)
This write up is an awesome summary of the new DAC. https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/r2r-for-the-rest-of-us/ (https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/r2r-for-the-rest-of-us/)
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Here is a new one DSD dac for $299 and looks very nice. It comes with a headphone jack.
http://www.hdta.info/product/serenade.html
Serenade DSD utilizes a Reference Grade Digital to Analog Converter which has a Dynamic Range of 123dB and THD+N of -105dB, which is rarely seen in this price range. In order to achieve this superb sound quality, Serenade DSD applies Minimum Path, 32Bit DAC Architecture and Jitter Elimination Circuit.
(http://www.hdta.info/images/serenade3.jpg)
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DSC1
http://www.signalyst.com/hardware.html (http://www.signalyst.com/hardware.html)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/254935-signalyst-dsc1.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/254935-signalyst-dsc1.html)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/254935-signalyst-dsc1-6.html#post4175377
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An off the wall suggestion:
Schitt Loki ($149, 64 DSD only), plus JRiver 20 for $50 to convert PCM from your computer into DSD. Leaves lots of budget for amp/speakers.
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First MQA dac, $299.
http://www.stuff.tv/meridian/meridian-explorer-2-world-s-first-mqa-compatible-dac/news
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I just talked to my buddy Rex in Hawaii. The Absolute Sound has labeled the IFI IDSD as the best value at the CES 2015 show in their latest magazine. I know, this is $499.
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SMSL M8 DAC $249.99
Sabre 32bit ES9018 DAC
384KHZ / 32Bit, DSD
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31-NnT3lXoL._SX425_.jpg)
Looks pretty attractive at $249.99 currently on Massdrop for $179.99.
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Good reviews on headfi as well.
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I own the Cambridge and it's pretty good. Of course it was extensively modded by the man, the myth, the legend.....Stan Warren, inc one of his great outboard power supplies. So it doesn't meet the price criteria of C&C. I got mine slightly used so it wasn't terribly expensive, but I really don't remember.
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Has anyone tried an Emotiva Big Ego? I am thinking about buying one for my son to replace his Dragon Fly 1.0
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I have the Encore mDSD ($ 99) and the NuPrime uDSD (some $ 180?). Excellent clear DACs. The uDSD even works as headphone amp with a pot volume control!
Probably the really expensive DACs are in a different class, but I'd be surprised if other DACs under $ 500 would be (much) better.
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My son likes a DAC that is on the warmer side of neutral that can do at least 384K or higher. The Big Ego fits the bill. One guy on HeadFi says it competes with his Schiit Modi Multibit. I have considered the uDAC5 but would like to see more reviews. I would also like to see more user reviews on the Big Ego. I may have to buy the Ego as it has a 30 day return policy.
He is going to use the DAC in his 2ch system as opposed to headphones. He is using a Pass DIY B1 preamp, Parasound A21 amp and PSB B6 speakers.
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If you can do even the most basic DIY then this is an option that is well under $450. Its an new R2R DAC which looks very promising. I will be buying one as soon as the second batch hits the market.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=111048)
Here is the DIY thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/259488-reference-dac-module-discrete-r-2r-sign-magnitude-24-bit-384-khz.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/259488-reference-dac-module-discrete-r-2r-sign-magnitude-24-bit-384-khz.html)
This write up is an awesome summary of the new DAC. https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/r2r-for-the-rest-of-us/ (https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/r2r-for-the-rest-of-us/)
Thanks for the links.
Did you end buying the board and getting it running? Are you happy with the sound quality?
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I received my used Emotiva Big Ego DAC today (paid $135) and I am impressed. I bought it for my son to replace his Dragonfly 1.0 that he was using in his 2 channel rig. It is very smooth and analog sounding. There is no grain or edginess to it like the DF. It leans to the warm side. It has an very nice liquid mid range. It has more detail and is more musical than the DF. The textures are more palpable. It is clearly a nice step up. It sounds even better with the AQ Jitterbug. I am going to try it with my Regen later in the week. We are using the crappy usb cable that came with it. I am going to order an AQ Cinnamon mini usb to usb cable along with an AQ Golden Gate mini RCA to RCA cable.
The rest of the system is my old Parasound A21, Pass Labs B-1 passive preamp/buffer that I built and PSB B6 speakers. Music Player is Bug Head Infinity Blade version 6.88.
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Using a Clarett 4Pre. Four channel with Thunderbolt connection. Only does up to 192/24. Paid 470.00 delivered. Use it with 2.1 system.
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Schiit just put out the Fulla 2. It is a combination DAC/amp for $99. It is getting some favorable user reviews on Head-fi.
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Hallo from Sweden! Bought this, and it was way better than my older SMSL M8:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mshow-AK4495SEQ-AK4495-DAC-AK4118-PCM-384KHZ-XMOS-XU208-USB-DSD-Apple-remote-/132005247729?hash=item1ebc203af1:g:K40AAOSw44BYLIqk
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Anyone know this Dac exist? please let me know this is a good DAC. Thanks
https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-SPDIF-Non-Oversampling-NOS-DAC-TDA1543-DIR9001-2x9V-NiMH-powers-from-USB/202172664567?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D44040%26meid%3Dd16ef573c10742bdbd49765aea7c7b5c%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D202166846408&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850
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It does exist and I am enjoying one in my system (almost a year now).
You can read a ton about it here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/starting-point-systems-portable-nos-dac.709720/
It is considered an entry-level non-oversampling DAC and I do prefer its sound to Delta-Sigma DACs.
It is remarkable for its power supply - it is always drawing from its rechargeable battery and this allows for a very low noise floor.
The output seems to be a tad low (less than 2.0 v), but adding a tube buffer does the trick for me.
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Burson has a new DAC/HP amp for $399. Called the Swing, it features swappable op amps as their Amlifiers do. What a nice way to tailor the output for the sound you want.
https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/swing/
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Can anyone tell me what kind of voltage this
Unit requires..to power up and run..?
Thanks.
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Looks like it would use a 12VDC wall-wart.
Is that a computer power connector in the back?
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Not sure if it was mentioned the version 2 smsl su8 is pretty decent, it has a remote, rca and balanced outs, its a preamp and has usb, coax and optical inputs. And it was unanimous with 4 people that it sounded better than my buddies nad c658 and one of the 4 people was the owner of the nad. :(
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Can anyone tell me what kind of voltage this
Unit requires..to power up and run..?
Thanks.
If you mean the Swing, it comes with a 12v supply.
https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/burson2/
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So, a user should be able to modify
A large 12v battery to supply power,
Instead of the supplied power cord..?
V..
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Bladesmith,
Welcome back! It’s been a while. :)
Michael