[JARSH]

Hi all!

Tried posting this earlier but I think the system timed out.

I've been out of the audio loop for quite some time due to someone doing power trials and blew my speakers. Ugh!  Had to send my pre/amp back to Bryston for repairs as well.  Not knowing how things would go with the speaker repairs, I decided to go with something else.  Been scouring CAM for something used but in the end I decided to give Maggies a go!

Initially I was planning to go with the LRS and made arrangements with a dealer and decided to purchase two pair for possible HT usage.  I contacted Magnepan regarding a couple of question pertaining to my room as well as the LRS.  When mentioning my L-shaped, 12x22', room they told me to go with the 1.7 instead.  The smaller section of the room is 9x9'.  Room from hell as far as audio goes.

Being out of the audio game for quite some time, to say I was looking forward to getting the system up and running would be an understatement!

Maggies arrive a couple weeks or so ago.  Spent well over an hour with duct-tape to separate the sock.  Think just about every square inch, of both speakers, were stuck.  The first thing I noticed was that the wow factor one gets while at a dealer just wasn't there! Sigh!  For the first time in my life I purchased these speakers blind. 

Initial setup was with the tweeters on the inside.  Played with them for nearly two weeks now.  After reading of Maggies requiring a long break-in, I ran them close to 16hr per day.  While I could hear changes here and there, they did not impress.  I felt there was something not quite right and or missing.

Tried the supplied resistors with mixed blessings.  Yes, my room will require treatment at some point if/when money permits. 

Called the sales person yesterday regarding my issue.  He mentioned that I try swapping channels which I had already done.  He asked as to how many hours I had on them and at what volume.  To date I'd say the in the 400+ range with the volume around 9:00 or slightly higher.  He laughed and told me I wasn't even driving them! He also mentioned to try the tweeter on the outside and play with placement some more.  After doing all that I had sent him an e-mail but won't hear back until Tuesday when they reopen.

While on the floor to change the resistors, I noticed the speaker in question was sounding fuzzy.   I listened to within 2-3 feet from the front.  The detail just wasn't there and the bass just didn't sound the same as the other speaker.  Awe! I gave Magnepan the benefit of the doubt being new speakers.  Decided to swap the wires on the speaker in question.  WOW!  They opened up full bloom!  The bass is also there as it should be.  THIS is the wow factor I was so looking forward to. 

Have any of you ever ran into this problem with Magnepan or any new product?

I'm still questioning whether they may or may not be anything else messed up with the crossover.  Now and then I'll hear ringing but no idea whether it's the speakers themselves or within the recording.  I can hear it on both instruments and vocals at times.

Still unsure as to break-in period and I would assume it varies.   I'll run them with more volume for a while with hope they'll improve.

[Saturn94]

It wouldn’t hurt to call Magnepan to see if something is defective.

[JARSH]

Hi!  I've been thinking about calling them this week.  Find it unusual that speakers would be wired wrong from the factory.  Then again, I believe in that anything that is man made has it's flaws. 

I've been tempted to remove the back plates just to have a peep but won't do it due to warranty. 

Plan to reverse them before the night is out due to find them too bright with the tweeters on the outside.

The salesman had mentioned about running them a little harder but when I go much past 9:00 on the volume I would have to leave the room. 

While my BP-20 pre and 4B NRB were at Bryston I seized the opportunity  to purchase a pair of 7B SST Sq.

One day I'd like to try a tube preamp and hear they mate quite nicely with Bryston amplifiers.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

If you find them too bright, buy a pair of Mills 1 ohm and 1.2 ohm resistors for the tweeters. 

https://www.partsconnexion.com/MILLS-71901.html

They are much better than the crappy sand resistors that come with the speakers.  Those sand resistors introduce noise.  The Mills add some warmth and they sound clear.

I have a pair and but prefer these Duelunds but they are expensive-

https://www.partsconnexion.com/DUELUND-74958.html

I find that they have a more transparent sound. 

I would buy both and see what you prefer.  I found that the Duelund 1.2 ohms work best on my Magnepan 1.6's.  However, you can always go up to 1.5 ohms or down to 1 ohm.

[SteveFord]

One wired out of phase, huh?
That'll do it!

I think Elizabeth had that issue with 20.7s a few years back.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

By the way, if you find them too bright with the tweeters on the outside, try less toe in so the tweeters are not focused directly at your head.  But certainly consider the resistors I mentioned.  They made my Maggies more enjoyable in my room with large glass windows and wood floors.

[JARSH]

T. Greyhound, thank you for the suggestions.  I wait until the holidays are over with and order some Mills to play with.  Once I've settled on resistor size I'll order the Duelunds. 

I've tried them from 3' out to 7'4".  No WAF to worry about being I live alone. Still shuffling them around trying to locate a good spot.  I'm definitely going to have to look into either DIY or commercially available room treatment.

Steve, it was disheartening given no matter what I tried things just didn't click.  The potential wow factor of new toys just wasn't there... until I figured out as to what was happening.  Still question whether they're 100%.   These are my first new speakers since the 80's.  I've long sold those and have been using a pair of used Swans up until someone did power trials while I was out. Grr!

How are things working out with your Rega cdp?  I'm in the poor house right now but had thoughts of replacing my Pioneer PD-65 at some point.  Also have to get my turntable up and running.  It's been decades since I've seen it.

Hopefully Elizabeth will chime in as well.

[SteveFord]

I believe they sent her a new pair just to play it safe and the original ones were returned to the factory for correction and the wiring person was given a free beating out back.
The foil ones (like yours) break in a lot faster than the old wire ones so just dig out your old Who albums and crank Boris The Spider a few times and you should be good to go.

The Rega, that worked out so well I bought an older Saturn and two Apollo-Rs. 
They're really good.  The only thing is every so often a disc won't read so I have to take it out and the reinsert it and everything is good in Rega land. 
You know how everyone gets the upgrade bug when the latest and greatest comes out so you can find used ones for maybe 50% off list if you jump right away.  An older Saturn went for $500 up in Canada last week, I'm kicking myself for not jumping on that one.

I recently upgraded both the 3.7s and 1.7s to Kimber 12TC speaker cables, that was really worth doing. 
I don't know if that will help with a brightness issue but it certainly gave them more of everything than the 8TCs I was using previously.

Tube preamps are a good thing.

[Craig B]

Along with everything else, toe-in is critical on Maggies. I've played around with them a lot and I swear by the manufacturer's suggestion that wherever you end up placing them, make sure the tweeter side is no closer to your head than the bass side. I keep mine so the tweeters are about 1" farther away, measured by laser. Doing that means if your setup is tweeters-inboard, the panels will be aiming at a convergence point somewhere slightly in front of the listening position, and if the tweeters are outboard, the convergence point will be somewhere slightly behind the listening position. Whether this will help the sound quality issues you're having, I don't know, but it does help snap imaging into pristine focus.

[JARSH]

Thank you for the toe-in suggestions. 

Update:

Called their service department this morning.  The gentleman whom i spoke with told me I should be fine with leaving the polarity reversed.  He told me if were to either have any other questions or issues to contact him via direct line.  Also to contact the dealer and they would arrange something.

I mentioned of how I had a loud pop a few days back... that just about made me jump out of my skin as I was sitting next to one speaker.  He told me the foils may arc as the film stretches. lol  He told me about the only things that can go are either the fuse will pop or a broken foil which will take out whichever section it may happen with or if they bottom.

So as this point I'll keep my fingers crossed and keep playing with the actual placement within my means.  Have to order longer balanced cables after the holidays along with getting some 10awg cable.  I'll also snag an assortment of Mills resistors to try as well until I find correct value.

One last question:  Do any of you know for a suitable diy project for both damping and defusing.  Thank you.

[Davey]

Dave.

[JARSH]

Hi Davey!  Read a few of your posts here as well as other forums.  Hope things are going well.

[Elizabeth]

I own 20.7 Magnepans. and yes one original speaker the tweeter was wired in reverse. This mysteriously both killed the tweeter in that channel and caused a replacement to work at a much lower volume (they tested the 'reverse by actually flipping the tweeter upside down, which then worked fine) . (I never did understand why, and Magnepan is not saying) Magnepan sent me a whole new pair
The aftermarket resistors are very helpful in tuning the speaker. The main thing to remember is the resistor is not reducing the volume as much as smaller resistor greater upper mids/treble the bigger resistor greater lower frequencies. And the Speaker is designed to have the resistor. no resistor the speaker is going to seem too &$#*@ bright. Why Magnepan does not just come out and say this is also a mystery.
I went with a combo of two Path and a Duland in parallel to give me a resistance of about 1.2 Ohms for the main set. I got to that value by trying several different values and a few different combos of those $$$$ resistors*.
It has been a few years so I do not remember exactly.
The expense was well worth it in a pair of $14,500 speakers.
For the op here, buy some Mills and get them in a variety of low values that you can
experiment. from 0.5 ohm to 2.0 ohms.

* one thing I learned is the Duland leads will break right off if you flex them a few times. the pure silver leads are very thin and immediately work harden with just a few bends. So you can't fiddle with them much before the leads break right off the base of the resistor. I had to make a dowel holder to carry the Duland so the leads had zero stress, otherwise they will fail very soon just left hanging. The final iteration  on my experiments I have the three Resistors wrapped to a dowel Two path and one Duland sounded the best of all combos. One path two path two Dueland  just one etc,.
And as I write the higher the resistance the more lower frequency bloom.. The lower resistance value more upper mids and treble. Within a range of about 2.0 to 0.5 Ohms is all you will want to try.

[Elizabeth]

About placement.. I went with tweeters in. I have a narrow room so getting the bass panels apart was better. Also bass panel nearer a wall reinforces the bass a bit.
When I had Magnepan 3.6 I actually added a solid 3/4" thick Red Oak 6" wide board to the outside Bass side end as tall as the speaker to improve the lower frequencies. I did not attach it, just laid it up against the side with a little brace and a bit of clear packing tape (cheap ! LOL)

I used a good female vocals to locate the speakers. listening repeatedly for clarity, when the image snaps into focus and the words are most legible is where I placed them forever. Took some time to find that perfect spot. I wrote down the exact measurements to the side and back walls of each edge to be able to get them back
Mine are toed in to cross a bit in front of my listening position. (which happens to be about the middle of the long room)  maybe a foot  to 18" or so in front of my ears.
My speakers are about 18" from sidewalls and 45" from rear. 60 or so apart (these are not the exact, just my guessing while sitting here too lazy to get the actual distances.

[Elizabeth]

And finally tuning. I did my entire system up on various exotic wood bits. From butcher blocks to small bits under in combination. The 20.7 Manepan bases are also up on Exotic Wood.
The final set I decided on are 1-1/2" square profile with varying lengths in Bloodwood. I had tried Walnut. Maple, VeraWood, Cocobolo, Brazilian Ebony even real Ebony. Ebony really accentuated the bass, at the expense of the mids. The Bloodwood is good for both.
So the bases are up on sticks of Bloodwood with outer two 6" then a couple of 12" and a couple of 18" staggered under the oval speaker base.
Plain at first was great then after a week or so the efect greatly lessened.. The problem was the wood bits sank hard into the carpet. The solution was to add 2" long  3/4" wide 3/8" thick hard maple bits under each end of the Bloodwood sticks. solved the problem of the carpet for good.
I owe my experimenting with tuning to Michael Green of Michaelgreenaudio Tuning is way better than trying to couple decouple stuff. I swear by tuning with wood as the real way to get the system to totally sing. instead if just sound good.
Anyway in short that is my playing around with my 20.7s. the last speakers I will ever need.

Acoustic Fields is a company one might check out even if just for the videos currently. lots of stuff on tuning a room..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZxImbdSpMM

[Saturn94]

Thank you for the toe-in suggestions. 

Update:

Called their service department this morning.  The gentleman whom i spoke with told me I should be fine with leaving the polarity reversed.  He told me if were to either have any other questions or issues to contact him via direct line.  Also to contact the dealer and they would arrange something.

I mentioned of how I had a loud pop a few days back... that just about made me jump out of my skin as I was sitting next to one speaker.  He told me the foils may arc as the film stretches. lol  He told me about the only things that can go are either the fuse will pop or a broken foil which will take out whichever section it may happen with or if they bottom.

So as this point I'll keep my fingers crossed and keep playing with the actual placement within my means.  Have to order longer balanced cables after the holidays along with getting some 10awg cable.  I'll also snag an assortment of Mills resistors to try as well until I find correct value.

One last question:  Do any of you know for a suitable diy project for both damping and defusing.  Thank you.

Personally, I wouldn’t accept a new speaker that’s wired incorrectly and pops (I’ve never heard of a Magnepan arcing).

Just my 2 cents. 😉

PS - Please correct me if I’ve misunderstood the situation. ☺️

[SteveFord]

Let us know how this is resolved, please.

[JARSH]

Hi Elizabeth, thank you for the info along with the the link.  I'll be sure to check it out.

Saturn94, you did read that correctly.   While researching, I came across a thread where someone had an arching situation.  Turned out it had something to do with the jumper plate.  I've also read of where some individuals had sizzle here and there.  Weird!  I was sitting at my computer the other night which is near the left speaker, the one incorrectly wired.  Heard this loud pop/bang that just about made me jump out of my skin.  Thought it may have been the ductwork but I swear it came from that speaker.

It was disheartening that the tech didn't offer to replace them as I'd hoped. Sigh!  Wrote the salesman the other day but haven't heard anything.  The store is closed Sunday and Monday.  Hopefully he'll get back to me tomorrow.  Shipping is high being I'm on the east cost.

Steve, I'll be sure to post if there are any changes.  I'm disheartened about the whole thing and quite skeptical.  I swear if it weren't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all. Don't mind going through the break-in process if I knew for sure I had something to work with.  This isn't impressing me as first time customer of their product(s).  The guy didn't ask for serial number or anything.   When I mentioned I have about 400 or so hours on them, his response was, "Maggies take 3-4 month to fully break-in".   

So I'm hoping the sales person will come through for me.  Otherwise, my initial intentions of purchasing a smaller set to run HT at some point will be a no go!

[Davey]

Hi Davey!  Read a few of your posts here as well as other forums.  Hope things are going well.

Me thinks you have something else going on here besides an apparent polarity flip.  I'm finding it a little difficult to believe the wiring inside the speaker is incorrect in (just) this specific way.
A possible polarity flip elsewhere in your system maybe?

Also, if indeed the wiring was incorrect, it wouldn't account for the buzzing you were noticing when laying on the floor right next to that particular speaker.

I suggest to remove the terminal plate from both speakers and inspect the wiring (and appropriate coloring) to see if left and right are the same.

Dave.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I have never heard that maggies need 400 hours or more of break in.  Even their manual states that they need 75 hours.  I have the 1.6's and MMG's.  75 hours was spot on.  I would Email Wendell at Magnepan or ask to speak to him not a tech who sounds like he is giving you a run around.

I would also return them to the dealer and ask for a new pair.  First talk to Magnepan and tell they you would like a new pair.  When I bought my 1.6's I could see that the foil was wrinkled through the cloth and Magnepan replaced them. Of course, I live 25 minutes from the factory in White Bear Lake MN and exchanged them there bypassing the dealer.