[ajzepp]

Wow, you guys are far more helpful than I anticipated! Thanks for all the great responses...I'm going to digest everything that has been, and will be, said...and just to clarify, my $500 budget is for the table only. I don't see the need to spend more than two bills on the phono stage (the V-LPS has been recommended to me several times), and the cartridge upgrade can wait for a bit. But yeah, I'm fine spending up to five bills on just the table.

I'd also be really interested to know if any of you guys are using your analog rigs for headphones...I know Douger does, cause he's my headphone bud....but would really love to know who is using headphones and what kind. I've been working on putting together a little collection over the last year that I'm very happy with. Grado PS500s, GS1000s....Beyer T1s....and AKG Q701s. At some point I'll add some orthos like the Audez'e LCD-2s, but not this year.

[Douger]

Bravo to the people suggesting the Grado Gold! That said, Wayner used appropriate restraint in not suggesting the Longhorn Grado Gold, which AVA sells, and Wayner assembles... But I'm here to tell you, you won't find a more musical cart for anywhere near $299!
Read about it on AVA's website. The only disadvantage I encountered was the Longhorn bar which would run into a big record weight
like the Keith Monks. With its damping the Grado Gold becomes smooth and accurate as in to die for. If the bar is a problem get a smaller diameter record weight...

[ajzepp]

Bravo to the people suggesting the Grado Gold! That said, Wayner used appropriate restraint in not suggesting the Longhorn Grado Gold, which AVA sells, and Wayner assembles... But I'm here to tell you, you won't find a more musical cart for anywhere near $299!
Read about it on AVA's website. The only disadvantage I encountered was the Longhorn bar which would run into a big record weight
like the Keith Monks. With its damping the Grado Gold becomes smooth and accurate as in to die for. If the bar is a problem get a smaller diameter record weight...

haha, you know how much I love Grados, and I'll admit....that's a big driving force behind this decision to get into analog. I really want a Grado cartridge on whatever table i get....probably not right away, but definitely within the first 6 months or as soon as I wear out the first stylus on the stock cart.

[E4T]

""What makes the most difference""
Answer: "" used vinyl stores in your area. ""
Find out what sort of vinyl is available in your own area.
Say you live out in the country, and the nearest towns have zero used or new vinyl.
Then you are stuck using the internet. And it will cost much more to satisfy your licorice lust.

Take me: I have five good used and new LP stores in easy (half hour or less) driving distance. I buy mostly used, so I can browse various used places all around town.
I have 6,000 LPs, All bought in the last fifteen years, nearly all locally, used.
Wonderful.
I probably never would have bothered to get into vinyl without a bunch of local sources.

So that is MY advice. Check out where you can buy LPs.. FIRST.

Gulp!  I made that mistake....I live a few thousand miles to the closest record store that I know of!!!  Still, I'm a sucker for vinyl.  Can't help it.  Makes record shopping even more special when I get the chance!!!

[neobop]

Yes - certain level of competence being the key words.  But yes - $200 can get you a competent phono stage & another $200 or so a competent cartridge.

Don't know why - but I find that "sound room" review annoying.  "Upgraded" to the RPM 1.3 vs the debut carbon?  Not in my experience, and I had a 1.3.  How's a crumbier tonearm, platter and cartridge an "upgrade"? 

And the whole business about the Denon cartridge magnet pulling the cartridge down so much against the metal platter.  Also seems highly doubtful. Is the Denon cantilever made of jello?

In reading about the debut carbon I'd really go for one of the more "professional" reviews......

I have no experience with the 1.3 or the Debut Carbon, but I got the impression that the post on Audiogon was not made up.  If the metal platter on the Carbon is ferrous, it could be just like a Thorens 124 MKI.  Many MCs have very strong magnets and a cart can get "glued" to a ferrous platter.  This should be easy enough to test with a magnet (away from the cart).  If the platter is ferrous and Ajzepp has no desire to try a MC, it shouldn't be a problem.  I think the 1.3 is more expensive than the Carbon, hence the upgrade comment. 

The thread on Agon is looking for the best $500 table.  I think that OP would benefit from additional opinions.  The platter is something that could easily be checked with access to the table.  Maybe a Carbon + speed box would be a better idea with a Grado.
neo

[Wayner]

The Project will hum with a Grado Prestige series cartridge. The Project has a very unshielded 120v/60 cycle synchronous motor that will broadcast EMI. The Rega may if the power supply is not remote. Others that have the Rega RP1 with a Grado please comment.....

Never mind, I see the Rega RP1 also has a synchronous motor, so it too will hum.

Wayner

[rollo]

  For $500 you received some good suggestions. The results will be good. If it were me I would save my money until i could afford a VPI Traveler TT. Ready to plat set up correctly and no worry about arm or cart synergy. It is a complete design. Then some time in the future you could obtain a diffrent cart.
   We found set up to be key to fine sound. Azimuth especially. Speed, VTA tracking force all play an important role. Recently picked up a digital tach for $15. If one has the capability of adjusting speed. Now with the speed dialed in at 33.3 our Kuzma StobiS never sounded better. The Fozgometer is another handy dandy tool. Again when azimuth is spot on so is the music.
   So if not into a TT that is adjustable for obvious reasons get one that is all done for ya, again the VPI traveler. Or what Wayner suggested. It is a start anyway. Have fun learning.


charles

[Wayner]

The Grado works fine on the VPIs, including the Traveler.......

W

[ajzepp]

So it seems like several of you guys are sort of saying that a $500 table might be spinning my wheels a bit? Maybe what I should do is just get a crap table until I learn more about vinyl, and then in the meantime save up for a VPI? I definitely don't want to drop $1200 on a table to start....cause I've read too many posts from people who decided to get into vinyl and then 6 months later their gear is just collecting dust. I really need to see for myself just where my level of interest will be once I get going.

[Wayner]

What makes you think you'll love vinyl? You have to get up and flip the record every 23 minutes or so, there is the set up thing, and new records cost more then new CDs or downloads. The initial cost is imposing as well, if you choose to get a better then beginner set-up.

I've been thinking about your situation all day in fact. Here is my conclusion. We only live once, so after some consideration on your part, I'd spring for the VPI (even tho I have some issues with it), it's better then anything in it's price that's been discussed. It will also be compatible with a Grado, if/when you decide to go that route.

The good news is that if you start to frown on vinyl, and I'm betting you won't, your losses will be minimal, as the VPI should command what you paid for it type of a price.

I guess I'm saying go for the quality rather then the economy. You can kind of have both if you use your head. I thought I once read that VPI had a deal with Grado and was offering it as a combo for a nice price (and maybe that was thru VPI). Add your Musical Fidelity preamp and your about $1700.

Or go the used market and hope there are no problems.......

Wayner

[vortrex]

I was you, 1.5 years ago.  I started with a $500 table.  since then I have gone through 6 tables, 4 phono stages, and 6 carts.  my advice would be to either go all in or not.  there's only so much cheap analog gear can do and it's likely your digital of the same investment $ would sound better.  it takes quite a bit of analog $ to get something worthwhile, in my opinion.

[ajzepp]

Excellent feedback....really appreciate it. I think while I'm digesting all of this, I may take a trip back to my Grado dealer and see what sorts of analog goodies he's got up and running. I know he loves vinyl so that might be a good way to further my education.

Thanks again for all the help...the response was far more than I was anticipating! Glad to see so many people are passionate about vinyl! (and helping a noob!!)