AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Empirical Audio => Topic started by: KShep58 on 6 Dec 2012, 01:59 pm
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My old stuff is outperforming the new stuff and I am confident I have screwed up the settings somehow.
New Toshiba Portege R930 -Win 7, 256 SSD drive, i5 processor, JRiver MC18 via new Off Ramp 5 into PS Audio Digital Link III DAC with a full compliment of Cullen modifications is disappointing as an older Dell with iTunes via MF V-Link II into same DAC sounds better.
The new hardware/software sounds like this description provided by 6th.replicant in an older post:
Currently demo'ing Pure Music and while IMHO it's given iTunes a real boost - great soundstage, texture, separation - I'm finding Pure is also a tad bright- and synthetic-sounding overall, it's also dialled-back the mid-range bass and introduced noticeable vocal sibilance.
I listened to 4 tracks of Fagens Morph the Cat and had to turn it off.
JRiver Details:
I ripped Redbook Cds & a few hybrids using JRiver at max speed. Later read that this was not a good idea, so I deleted a few files and re-ripped at 1x. This produced an awful sounding concoction like when you play a 78 at 33.3 underwater. Ripped again at max speed and the files played fine.
Encoding = uncompressed Wave.
Audio Output = WASAPI / open device for exclusive access is checked/ flush device buffers on pause is checked
Buffering = .50 seconds
Output Format / sample rates = no change for all / bit depth = source / channels = 2
Bitstreaming = none
prebuffering = 6 seconds
play silence at startup / files are playing from the disc not from memory
volume mode = internal
Media import = single folder
Empirical Audio Off Ramp Details:
There is no mention in the supplied literature of having to 'burn in' the Off Ramp. Mods include turbo clock and upgraded regulator for S/PDIF. CIAudio 12v power module replaces OE wall wart.
Settings in the Control Panel / Sound - EA 192 - advanced
24 bit / 44.1 / 2 channel
Exclusive mode / allow applications to take exclusive control of this device = check mark
/ give exclusive mode applications priority = check mark
Supported formats / DTS & Dolby Digital = check marks / Microsoft WMA ProAudio is not checked
Sample rates, the only one checked is 44.1
Computer/CryoParts USB cable/Off Ramp USB converter/SteroVox XZ2 co-ax/PSA DigIII DAC/Ayre preamp/Carver tfm-55x/Ohm Walsh 5s
/kenny
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First, I would recommend using dbpoweramp to rip all CD's. Its $38 and well worth it.
Are you playing back the .wav files with Jriver with Kernel Streaming turned-on?
Are you powering the Off-Ramp and the computer from the SAME AC circuit?
What Cryo-Parts USB cable are you using with the Off-Ramp?
Have you compared the wall-wart to the CI supply?
All electronics needs break-in. The OR5 needs at least 2 weeks.
If it still does not sound good after these changes, you should never rule-out a failure or shipping damage. These boards are machine soldered, so a bad solder joint is all it takes.
Steve N.
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First, I would recommend using dbpoweramp to rip all CD's. Its $38 and well worth it.
Will do. I'll delete the current library. I guess there is a way to import the files from dbpoweramp to JRiver?
Are you playing back the .wav files with Jriver with Kernel Streaming turned-on?
No. I read your instructions but I thought Kernel Streaming worked for XP only. Were do I get it? How do I install it in the player?
Are you powering the Off-Ramp and the computer from the SAME AC circuit?
Yes.
What Cryo-Parts USB cable are you using with the Off-Ramp?
The one they offered at $99. I'll be happy to upgrade it if you have any suggestions.
Have you compared the wall-wart to the CI supply?
First thing I did. Dustys component is like a black hole except you can see it.
All electronics needs break-in. The OR5 needs at least 2 weeks.
I thought as much. It was rude of me to mention it. Apologies.
If it still does not sound good after these changes, you should never rule-out a failure or shipping damage. These boards are machine soldered, so a bad solder joint is all it takes.
The unit was well packed and there were no visible signs of carrier rough-housing.
I have tomorrow off so I'll delete the library and download dbpoweramp. If someone can help on the Kernel Streaming that would be great.
Thanks for the prompt reply. I was beginning to lose sleep over this./kenny
Steve N.
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First of all, there's no need to pay any money for ripping CDs. EAC will do an even better job than DBPoweramp, for the low, low price of $0. Once you've set the correct read offset for your particular drive and configured gap detection correctly (there are plenty of guides on how to do that) there is not a more accurate ripper available for the Windows platform.
I'm not a huge fan of JRiver, but if you want to continue using that program, make sure you have the memory playback option enabled. JRiver from the hdd rather than RAM sounds noticeably worse than Foobar to my ears. With MP enabled, the two are roughly equal. JPlay is the best sounding playback software available for Windows, and it's capable of running with the JRiver shell if you want to do that, though you'll get the best results in in pure hibernation mode.
Third, download the Fidelizer program. That basically allows you to have your cake and eat it too. You can use your Toshiba as a general purpose computing device, and when you want to use it as a source, start Fidelizer which will temporarily disable all non-essential Windows services. W7 out of the box is configured very poorly for reference grade audio playback.
Fourth, consider upgrading to Windows 8. I don't like the "Metro" interface, but Windows 8 by all accounts has a much better designed audio stack than W7, and sounds significantly better. Upgrades for the moment are very cheap.
Fifth, since you are using the OR5 instead of the V-link, *cut the USB power line*. The OR doesn't need it, and the only thing it can do is make the system sound worse. You can use either a USB cable that doesn't have a power leg such as the one by PI Audio, or use the Short-Block which would likely provide an even more beneficial effect. The power that comes out of laptop USB ports is nasty.
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It is critical to use Kernel Streaming plug-in for Off-Ramp 5. I believe there is one for Jriver, but I have not used it.
Another option for you to try is the latest Foobar. It has KS plug-in that you store in the components folder under c:program files/Foobar
http://www.foobar2000.org/ (http://www.foobar2000.org/)
KS plug-in:
http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_ks (http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_ks)
The sound of this can be further improved by purchasing Jplay.
Steve N.
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First of all, there's no need to pay any money for ripping CDs. EAC will do an even better job than DBPoweramp, for the low, low price of $0. Once you've set the correct read offset for your particular drive and configured gap detection correctly (there are plenty of guides on how to do that) there is not a more accurate ripper available for the Windows platform.
"EAC will do an even better job than dbPoweramp" -
Okay you are entitled to your opinion, but there is zero factual basis for this statement. You can like EAC as much as you want, but that simply isn't a fact.
There are reasons to pay for dbPoweramp: it has features in ripping and accurate ripping that EAC doesn't. Not saying EAC isn't accurate, but dbPoweramp lets you be truly obsessive and engage in overkill in ripping if that's what you want. In addition it has many other features that EAC doesn't, and works in formats that EAC doesn't.
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It is critical to use Kernel Streaming plug-in for Off-Ramp 5. I believe there is one for Jriver, but I have not used it.
Another option for you to try is the latest Foobar. It has KS plug-in that you store in the components folder under c:program files/Foobar
http://www.foobar2000.org/ (http://www.foobar2000.org/)
KS plug-in:
http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_ks (http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_ks)
The sound of this can be further improved by purchasing Jplay.
Steve N.
I tried Foobar prior to JRiver. I'm not so savvy when it comes to downloading plug-ins and JRiver included a metadata component, so it was simpler.
I'll try Foobar again and see how far I can get on my own.
Thanks for the helpful replies.
/kenny
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I reinstalled Foobar2000.
I deleted all music files and uninstalled JRiver.
I downloaded ks_foo zipped for Kernel Streaming. Clicked the OPEN option.
How do I get the Kernel Streaming program stored in my download files into Foobar? I dragged the file over to Foobar/preferences/components but it didn't stay there. I'm not familiar with zipped folders at all.
Downloading Jplay and dbPoweramp next.
/kenny
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Jplay / purchased, not yet installed.
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"EAC will do an even better job than dbPoweramp" -
Okay you are entitled to your opinion, but there is zero factual basis for this statement. You can like EAC as much as you want, but that simply isn't a fact.
There are reasons to pay for dbPoweramp: it has features in ripping and accurate ripping that EAC doesn't. Not saying EAC isn't accurate, but dbPoweramp lets you be truly obsessive and engage in overkill in ripping if that's what you want. In addition it has many other features that EAC doesn't, and works in formats that EAC doesn't.
I've not found EAC to come up short in any way, shape, or form. EAC generates test and copy CRCs for each track that you can check to make sure match. With the read offset and gap detection set, it should produce a bit-identical, time identical copy of the original disc in WAV or FLAC, not sure what other formats would be necessary. Finally, it will fetch the AccurateRip database and test your rip against other rips of the same pressing, assuming one is available.
DB has a lot of other features as well, no question, and if you want to use all of those it may be worth the purchase. Used purely as a CD Ripper though, I think it costs $38 too much.
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I reinstalled Foobar2000.
I deleted all music files and uninstalled JRiver.
I downloaded ks_foo zipped for Kernel Streaming. Clicked the OPEN option.
How do I get the Kernel Streaming program stored in my download files into Foobar? I dragged the file over to Foobar/preferences/components but it didn't stay there. I'm not familiar with zipped folders at all.
Downloading Jplay and dbPoweramp next.
/kenny
You need to extract the .zip file (W7 can do this on its own, just right click extract. You don't need something like Winzip), and copy the .dll file contained within to your Foobar/components folder. Nearly all Foobar components are .dlls. Once the file is in the folder, Foobar should recognize it automatically. Just go to preferences and set KS as the output.
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I tried Foobar prior to JRiver. I'm not so savvy when it comes to downloading plug-ins and JRiver included a metadata component, so it was simpler.
I'll try Foobar again and see how far I can get on my own.
Thanks for the helpful replies.
/kenny
That would be good. Make sure you use the latest version with the link I provided for both Foobar and KS.
You must select the KS output in Foobar Preferences. If it has memory/cache mode, also select this.
Steve N.
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You need to extract the .zip file (W7 can do this on its own, just right click extract. You don't need something like Winzip), and copy the .dll file contained within to your Foobar/components folder. Nearly all Foobar components are .dlls. Once the file is in the folder, Foobar should recognize it automatically. Just go to preferences and set KS as the output.
First of all, thanks for help.
Foobar / preferences / components / at the bottom of the screen I hit install and a new window opens / install component...and there are three files.
foo_out_ks - file folder ...right click / open and it disappears / highlight it and clcik open at the bottom of the screen / nothing
foo_out_ks Compreessed ....same as above
foo-out_wasapi...don't I need this too? Haven't messed with it yet.
this is very frustrating...have a good weekend folks.
/kenny
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Kenny - First, you want to download the KS ZIP file to a spare folder or put it on the desktop. It will be in a windows explorer folder.
Then in windows explorer (not internet explorer) where the folder is visible, open the folder and right click on the ZIP file and a menu of options will come up. One of them should be ZIP. Select this and tell it to unzip in the current folder.
Once you have the .dll file as well as the ZIP file in the folder, open a second windows explorer window. Navigate in the new window to c:programfiles/foobar/components. Then grab the file in the temporary folder and drag it to the other window and into components folder.
Then you can open Foobar and select KS from the "output" window of preferences.
Steve N.
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Just in case anyone seaches this topic, I had to download an application from PKware in order to unzip the Kernel Streaming folder.
I did that on the desktop and just dragged it into Foobar components. Don't know that fully accomplishes the task of not.
Jplay
According to the begginers guide to Jplay, for Foobar2000 :
) JPLAY will be automatically activated whenever you play a lossless track (WAV, AIFF, FLAC, Apple Lossless) – it’s that simple! No setup in foobar is needed, output settings are irrelevant – JPLAY will take over playback anyway.
So, does that make the inclusion of WASAPI and Kernel Streaming as Foobar2000 output components unneccesary?
I still have to unzip Jplay and I hope it self installs + install dbPoweramp.
/kenny
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I would try Foobar with KS first in memory playback mode before trying to add Jplay into the mix.
If you dragged KS .dll file to Foobar components folder, then you should be ready to start Foobar and select KS:Empirical async 192 in preferences/output and then play some music.
Steve N.
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I would try Foobar with KS first in memory playback mode before trying to add Jplay into the mix.
If you dragged KS .dll file to Foobar components folder, then you should be ready to start Foobar and select KS:Empirical async 192 in preferences/output and then play some music.
Steve N.
Memory playback will exhibit better sonics than playing from the SSD?
I gotta get dbPower amp loaded up too.
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Memory playback will exhibit better sonics than playing from the SSD?
Yes, it usually does. I have SSD in my Mac Mini and setting Cache mode in Amarra is better.
Steve N.
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Kernel Streaming output to the OR5 resolved all audio issues. Stable playback for 10 hours. Couldn't be happier with the results.
Thank you all.
/kenny
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Kernel Streaming output to the OR5 resolved all audio issues. Stable playback for 10 hours. Couldn't be happier with the results.
Thank you all.
/kenny
Very good. I had a feeling that was the problem. This is noted in the user manual BTW.
Steve N.
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Kshep since you bought JPlay, use it :)
Try out Mini and then buffer to DirectLink (key b of keyboard) in KS It will see the OFF-Ramp automatically, set the settings: memory 1gig, 24 bit, full hib mode and Xtreme engine
To play files with it USE 1st Foobar to load files the way you like it then highlight the files in Foobar , Rclick with mouse and çopy'
then go back to JPlay mini and only hit spacebar twice, so dont use mouse to play files the mouse is only used in Foobar
try first one or two music files . you will notice the screen goes black and the computer cannot be used for any other purpose except playing the files you selected, until they are finished playing
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Hi Steve,
I too have noticed a very significant sound improvement using JPLAY. The quality of the USB stream from the computer seems to matter more than expected, even with async USB!
Having had the Off Ramp 5 for about one year, the main contributors to musical enjoyment I have identified are:
- upsample CDs to 24/176 using Weiss Saracon
- use a SHORT usb cable between laptop and OR5
- use JPLAY in Kernel Streaming, Direct Mode
The sound is now significantly more detailed and dynamic than it had ever been, which I take as an indication of very low jitter
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
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hi Jean-Pierre
The USB cable is a strange thing
The shorter the better is not always the best sounding, too many variables
The shortest is what I use, an USB A to B adapter it costs less than 8 dollars and is 1 inch long and I shield it with 3M EMI absorber, It sounds true audiophile
It sounds better than standard printer cable, but also better than 90% to 150+ dollars audiophile cables like for instance Wireworld and alike. It sounds also better than the cable supplied with the OR5
Until at a hearing session at home with Josef Piri from JPlay I heard his Locus Nucleus V2 usb cable which he took with him. It sounded very much better. The nucleus was 3 feet long if I remember well, helas I cannot afford such a cable yet.
The overall quality of the USB cable makes a dramatic difference to the Audiophilleo, the JKenny MK3 and the OR5, at least at my place.
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Hi,
Any other recommendations besides locus design which is no longer produced?
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
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Hi,
Any other recommendations besides locus design which is no longer produced?
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
Yes, Audioquest Diamond. Around $500
Steve N.
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I've been enjoying the Moon Audio Silver Dragon USB cable. I needed an 8 ft cable and so I got a 10 ft for $310.
http://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-silver-dragon-usb-cable.html
which is talked about in the following review:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue60/moon_audio.htm
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What about Acoustic Revive?
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I can vouch for the Revelation Audio Labs Dual Conduit USB cable (that Steve sells). I recently compared it to another similarly priced cable and the RAL smashed it.
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I'm using currently using Windows 7 + JRiver18 (output mode: WASAPI).
I'd like to try Foobar2000 but should install the KS or WASAPI plug-in?
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I'm using currently using Windows 7 + JRiver18 (output mode: WASAPI).
I'd like to try Foobar2000 but should install the KS or WASAPI plug-in?
I would install both, but the KS will probably be better.
Steve N.
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The Transparent Premium USB at $650 for 1.5 m is just stunning, I like it better than the Diamond.
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The Transparent Premium USB at $650 for 1.5 m is just stunning, I like it better than the Diamond.
Nice. Cheaper too. I wonder how it would compare to the Revelation.
Steve N.
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Sorry but if a dac requires a $650 USB cord to sound good, the dac is flawed. Massively.
IMO, YMMV......
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Sorry but if a dac requires a $650 USB cord to sound good
He didn't say that.
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I use the Revelation Dual and it is outstanding. Being able to decouple the power line is a fine option also, and it does make a difference on my system. To benefit from the dual conduit version, it has to be used with something that does not need USB power though. I highly recommend this cable.
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Sorry but if a dac requires a $650 USB cord to sound good, the dac is flawed. Massively.
IMO, YMMV......
I'm afraid that its the USB receiver chips that are flawed. Poor common-mode rejection. This should not be a problem, but it is, therefore the short-block is a solution for OR5 and the OR6 with galvanic isolation is another. There also may be an RF component if the transmission-line is not well matched.
So, let me understand this. If $600 analog interconnects are needed from preamp to amps make them sound good, this is a flawed amp?
If $500 coax cables are needed between an oscilloscope and a component to make accurate measurements, this is a flawed scope?
Steve N .
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Sorry but if a dac requires a $650 USB cord to sound good, the dac is flawed. Massively.
IMO, YMMV......
No it's quite good even with the Belkin Gold, just that much better, PSA PWD with SB.
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Nice. Cheaper too. I wonder how it would compare to the Revelation.
Steve N.
Can't say, don't have one.