GG DAC with Elrog 300B and Takatsuki 274B, match made in heaven.

Dracule1 · « **on:** 16 Nov 2015, 02:59 pm »

What can I say? Expensive as hell for these tubes, but the best sound I've heard from the GG DAC by far. I've tried Psvane 101D, EML 45 mesh plate, and TJ Full Music 300B SE output tubes with Psvane 274B replica, Brimar 5Z4GY, Sophia Electric Princess Rigid Plate 274B, and EML 5U4 rectifiers with the GG.

The Takatsuki 274B is the best built and most immaculate rectifier tube I've ever seen. It looked like it came from a silicon wafer chip manufacturing facility.

wisnon · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Nov 2015, 01:33 pm »

Have you tried the Philips metal base GZ34, the 1944 RCA 5r4gy (double D up angled getters), the double mica 5r4s, the Shawn favourite Footscray STC/Brimar 5r4, the WA422, and the forum favourites GEC/Cossor U52 and the Fat bottle Mullard GZ37?

The 5r4s run a LOT cheaper than the "brand name" 274Bs. I gotta stop looking at rectis as I have about 12 of them!

Here are just a few:

wisnon · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Nov 2015, 01:36 pm »

And Lukasz posted these on FaceBook 6 months ago:

Yes, I keep hearing that the Elrogs sound superb in the GG, but have reliability problems.

sfox7076 · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Nov 2015, 02:41 pm »

The Footscray tube makes my 274B sound muddy. The sound was a little too analytic with 300Bs. With 275As, it is over the moon.

Gopher · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Nov 2015, 02:52 pm »

Quote from: Dracule1 on 16 Nov 2015, 02:59 pm

What can I say? Expensive as hell for these tubes, but the best sound I've heard from the GG DAC by far. I've tried Psvane 101D, EML 45 mesh plate, and TJ Full Music 300B SE output tubes with Psvane 274B replica, Brimar 5Z4GY, Sophia Electric Princess Rigid Plate 274B, and EML 5U4 rectifiers with the GG.

The Takatsuki 274B is the best built and most immaculate rectifier tube I've ever seen. It looked like it came from a silicon wafer chip manufacturing facility.

Beautiful. I'd love to hear one at some point. Haven't heard that much about the Tak recti, seems their 300Bs take all the praise, but I'm sure it's excellent.

wisnon · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Nov 2015, 04:29 pm »

Quote from: sfox7076 on 17 Nov 2015, 02:41 pm

The Footscray tube makes my 274B sound muddy. The sound was a little too analytic with 300Bs. With 275As, it is over the moon.

Yes, synergy is KEY!

Dracule1 · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Nov 2015, 10:03 pm »

Quote from: wisnon on 17 Nov 2015, 01:33 pm

Have you tried the Philips metal base GZ34, the 1944 RCA 5r4gy (double D up angled getters), the double mica 5r4s, the Shawn favourite Footscray STC/Brimar 5r4, the WA422, and the forum favourites GEC/Cossor U52 and the Fat bottle Mullard GZ37?

The 5r4s run a LOT cheaper than the "brand name" 274Bs. I gotta stop looking at rectis as I have about 12 of them!

Here are just a few:

Wisnon, you have far more knowledge of old rectifier tubes than I do. I wish I can try them all. I will look into those in the future. For now, I'm enthralled with the Takatsuki.

As for the Elrogs, the reliability issue is always on the back of my mind. So far I have no issues with them, but I only have 50 hours on them. I'm only using the Elrogs for serious listening sessions.

Dracule1 · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Nov 2015, 10:13 pm »

Quote from: Gopher on 17 Nov 2015, 02:52 pm

Beautiful. I'd love to hear one at some point. Haven't heard that much about the Tak recti, seems their 300Bs take all the praise, but I'm sure it's excellent.

Hi Gopher, I know this tube is a hard sell because of its steep price. From people who have compared the Tak 274B to the vaunted WE 274B, the Tak seems to come out on top. You also get 1 year warranty with the Tak. So if you have reference level equipment, this is the rectifier tube to get, me thinks. I'm just relieved it has such good synergy with the Elrogs. Now, the Tak 300B price is too steep for my taste (~$1500 through Amtrans). But those who have both Tak and Elrog 300Bs seem to like Elrogs better in that it has fuller harmonic content in the midrange. Yea, the Elrog reliabilty issue is still a concern.

wisnon · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Nov 2015, 10:09 am »

Quote from: Dracule1 on 17 Nov 2015, 10:03 pm

Wisnon, you have far more knowledge of old rectifier tubes than I do. I wish I can try them all. I will look into those in the future. For now, I'm enthralled with the Takatsuki.

As for the Elrogs, the reliability issue is always on the back of my mind. So far I have no issues with them, but I only have 50 hours on them. I'm only using the Elrogs for serious listening sessions.

Thanks but SFox is the real guru and deserves most of the praise. I learn much from him.

One thing I will say though, is that voltage drop, tube construction, current rating and whether the recti is DHT or IHT all affect the sound. However, the recti seen in isolation is not enough, you have to test the synergy with the chosen output tubes. This is like your own physics lab, tinkering to get the best synergy for certain types of presentations...one combo for nightclub vocals, another for rock/pop and yet another for classical music. Fabulous!

sfox7076 · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Nov 2015, 04:15 pm »

I only have opinions. Nothing I state is fact (other than maybe some of the discussion on who made what and what identifies what). I think one of the best value rectifiers out there is the Haltron/Brimar/Mazda/Siefte 5R4G with double mica and ceramic spacers. I have seen it with round pan getters, round halo getters and Norman has a D getter version (never heard that one). I have convinced a few people to use them and they can run $25. My favorite right now is $100 if/when you find it. But it is very specific to the factory, not the brand. Anyway, I digress. I use 5R4/5V4/5Ar4/5U4gs in the amplifier and preamplifier I use at work (well, I did until UPS lost the amp when I was getting work done on it that I was too scared to do. Sigh.)

My stable of rectifiers includes:

We 274B (I have three of these, including a matched pair of NOS in the box (labeled Electronic Enterprises identical to these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NOS-ELECTRONIC-ENT-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-274B-274A-TUBE-FIT-124-143-AMP-/121767741803?hash=item1c59ec496b:g:YeAAAOSwsB9WAh8a)
WE 422A (I have three of these in my possession 2 NOS in the box (not matched), though I think one is spoken for)
STC 5r4GYs (Four of these suckers, but the Oldway version stinks. Long live the Footscray)
Haltron/Brimar/Mazda/Siefte 5R4G (three or four of these at this point)
GZ34s (3 Mullards, no metal base. It's my white whale. Something always goes wrong when I get one or try to)
5z4s (A few Brimar bullet holes floating around)
5v4s (a few Brimars and a US made ones)
5u4G (a few US made)

I am sure there are others laying around here somewhere....

Shawn

Dracule1 · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Nov 2015, 05:13 pm »

Quote from: sfox7076 on 18 Nov 2015, 04:15 pm

I only have opinions. Nothing I state is fact (other than maybe some of the discussion on who made what and what identifies what). I think one of the best value rectifiers out there is the Haltron/Brimar/Mazda/Siefte 5R4G with double mica and ceramic spacers. I have seen it with round pan getters, round halo getters and Norman has a D getter version (never heard that one). I have convinced a few people to use them and they can run $25. My favorite right now is $100 if/when you find it. But it is very specific to the factory, not the brand. Anyway, I digress. I use 5R4/5V4/5Ar4/5U4gs in the amplifier and preamplifier I use at work (well, I did until UPS lost the amp when I was getting work done on it that I was too scared to do. Sigh.)

My stable of rectifiers includes:

We 274B (I have three of these, including a matched pair of NOS in the box (labeled Electronic Enterprises identical to these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NOS-ELECTRONIC-ENT-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-274B-274A-TUBE-FIT-124-143-AMP-/121767741803?hash=item1c59ec496b:g:YeAAAOSwsB9WAh8a)
WE 422A (I have three of these in my possession 2 NOS in the box (not matched), though I think one is spoken for)
STC 5r4GYs (Four of these suckers, but the Oldway version stinks. Long live the Footscray)
Haltron/Brimar/Mazda/Siefte 5R4G (three or four of these at this point)
GZ34s (3 Mullards, no metal base. It's my white whale. Something always goes wrong when I get one or try to)
5z4s (A few Brimar bullet holes floating around)
5v4s (a few Brimars and a US made ones)
5u4G (a few US made)

I am sure there are others laying around here somewhere....

Shawn

Thanks Shawn for your input. And thank you for your recommendations on the Brimar 5Z4GY and Tak 274B. Your assessment was spot on for these tubes. Brimar is a bargain for what it does.

Gopher · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Dec 2015, 03:05 pm »

Quote from: Dracule1 on 18 Nov 2015, 05:13 pm

Thanks Shawn for your input. And thank you for your recommendations on the Brimar 5Z4GY and Tak 274B. Your assessment was spot on for these tubes. Brimar is a bargain for what it does.

How did you find it (Brimar) to compare to your Tak sonically? Similar flavor?

Dracule1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Dec 2015, 01:47 am »

Quote from: Gopher on 16 Dec 2015, 03:05 pm

How did you find it (Brimar) to compare to your Tak sonically? Similar flavor?

The Tak has better bass definition, is quieter so more clarity, and has more defined imaging/soundstaging. Is the huge price differential worth it? Probably not to most audiophiles. The surprising thing was I prefer the Brimar over the Psavane 274B.

sfox7076 · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Dec 2015, 05:46 pm »

I had an interesting experience on Sunday. I have Salk Exoticas. Someone wanted to hear them with a Wells Innomorate, so Vinh Vu of Gingko Audio came by with the person and the amp. I popped in my WE 300Bs and started to play music. I could immediately tell something was wrong. The highs were brittle and lacked the perfect tone. I got up, swapped my STC 5R4GY for my WE 274B and we were back in business. The GG is so unbelievably sensitive to rectification. It is amazing. Regardless, the demo went well. I have never heard a solid state amplifier that I have liked more. If I give up the ghost on my tube amps, I will buy that amp.

Gopher · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Dec 2015, 06:40 pm »

Quote from: sfox7076 on 23 Dec 2015, 05:46 pm

I had an interesting experience on Sunday. I have Salk Exoticas. Someone wanted to hear them with a Wells Innomorate, so Vinh Vu of Gingko Audio came by with the person and the amp. I popped in my WE 300Bs and started to play music. I could immediately tell something was wrong. The highs were brittle and lacked the perfect tone. I got up, swapped my STC 5R4GY for my WE 274B and we were back in business. The GG is so unbelievably sensitive to rectification. It is amazing. Regardless, the demo went well. I have never heard a solid state amplifier that I have liked more. If I give up the ghost on my tube amps, I will buy that amp.

No surprises there. The Salk E3s and Wells Innamorata fronted by a Lampi (especially a golden gate) is a KILLER combination. That line up, linked with Vinh's cables has been a sleeper at several recent shows.

sfox7076 · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Dec 2015, 07:00 pm »

I prefer my 1625 amps, but because I prefer the tubes...

wisnon · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Dec 2015, 10:01 pm »

Quote from: sfox7076 on 23 Dec 2015, 05:46 pm

I had an interesting experience on Sunday. I have Salk Exoticas. Someone wanted to hear them with a Wells Innomorate, so Vinh Vu of Gingko Audio came by with the person and the amp. I popped in my WE 300Bs and started to play music. I could immediately tell something was wrong. The highs were brittle and lacked the perfect tone. I got up, swapped my STC 5R4GY for my WE 274B and we were back in business. The GG is so unbelievably sensitive to rectification. It is amazing. Regardless, the demo went well. I have never heard a solid state amplifier that I have liked more. If I give up the ghost on my tube amps, I will buy that amp.

Have you heard the DartZeel Integrated or the Job 250 Monoblocs?

sfox7076 · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 Dec 2015, 12:20 am »

I found Job 225s to be marginal at best. Never even heard of DartZeel will need to look into it.

Crashem · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Feb 2016, 05:11 pm »

Talked to George Lenz about Elrog 300Bs with Lampizator DACs. He is still not recommending them based on previous issues. They believe the problem is the current at startup. He is currently recommending only equipment that limits current to 1.2A at startup which is different from other recommendations that it could handle anything below 2A. They are working on more resilient filament but no ETA.

sfox7076 · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Mar 2016, 08:59 pm »

Lukasz circuit is constant current, so you should not have a huge current inrush. Also, Thoriated filaments usually are more immune from current inrush issues than others. Not sure what the deal is with ElRog. It could be more an issue of initial resistance, but I don't know.

Shawn