[zenfishbike]

I'm scheming to veneer the outer wings of my Otica's (oak with black ink I think) and paint the inside flat black and the front baffle a gloss 2 part automotive. Found two very good threads on sequence, one paint first, the other veneer first. Welcoming any additional thoughts and suggestions from those OP's or others. Thanks!

Paint first from Rock Ball:   https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=169168.msg1793035#msg1793035

Veneer first from subsonic1050:   https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=176611.20

[mlundy57]

With the inside and outside being different I paint the inside pieces flat black and veneer the sides before gluing. Next, glue the parts together. Touch up any of the inside seams that need it. Then paint the black outside parts. Finally clear coat the entire outside.

This is just how I’ve hit on doing it. There may well be better ways.

[Badd99]

I would definitely assemble and glue before I painted (minus leaving the bottom off glue at the very end.) I would then 100% paint first so I don't worry about over spray (but I'd still tape off) and then veneer. If you glue after it's almost impossible to not get glue on the paint and touch ups are always obvious. A good spray gun and patience and I did a great job on my oticas.

Also just incase you were interested I went with a combo vcap odam on the tweeter to make up the value bypassed by 0.01 dueland silver bypass cap and the results were stunning. So I then put a 0.1 vcap odam on the large mid sonicap bundle and then bypassed all of that again with 0.01 dueland pure silver bypass cap and it's truly next level incredible. This was far better sounding than the miflex imo. Also did all foil inductors and path audio resistors and wired the whole crossover with 8TC wire with 4% silver wbt solder.

[subsonic1050]

Hi Zen, I've built several speakers over the past year - the X-statik, 2 sets of servo subs and 2 sets of NX-Treme's. In every case I tried different methods to "cheat" and do the paint first, then veneer. In my experience, it just doesn't work.

MLundy has even more experience building speakers than I do and his approach sounds very good as well. I would just strongly recommend NOT assembling the whole cabinet, then painting, then veneering. You're going to have problems. The problems as I experienced with doing things in that order are:

1.) The point of doing things in this order are to avoid masking off the veneer. The idea is that any overspray onto the veneered surfaces will just be sanded off. Sounds great - but it doesn't work. Paint does not sand well and it especially doesn't sand well on MDF. Also, don't use latex paint which is way too soft/gummy - use an alkyd enamel paint.

2.) Some amount of glue from the veneer WILL creep over the edges and ruin your crisp paint/veneer line. Even using heatlock glue. Trust me.

3.) When you trim the veneer with a flush trim bit the bearings on the flush trim bit as well as a small amount of cutter must necessarily ride on painted surfaces. This will mess up the paint job every single time.

With that said, this is what worked the best for me. Assemble the cabinet as normal, then veneer as normal. Trim everything up and sand as normal. Then use contact paper - like drawer liners - basically as huge rolls of masking tape. You can find these things in widths of around 18-20" and in lengths of around 9 to 15 feet for a few bucks apiece. Walmart had rolls that were 9 feet long for $1.98. Mask off all the veneer and use a razor blade to precisely trim the contact paper. Then do your paint job.

You might be better off doing it the way MLundy suggested if you are going to veneer your sides and paint the front. It will be a little difficult to get a good line where the veneer meets the front baffle if you assemble the cabinet before veneering.

[zenfishbike]

You might be better off doing it the way MLundy suggested if you are going to veneer your sides and paint the front. It will be a little difficult to get a good line where the veneer meets the front baffle if you assemble the cabinet before veneering.

This is exactly what I've been thinking dictates the sequence. To get that sharp line where the side panel veneer meets the front baffle the veneer needs to be done before glue up. I believe my sequence will be:

1. Veneer side panels and mask them with contact paper
2. Glue up (except for bases)
3. Mask front baffle and spray inside flat black
4. Mask inside and spray front baffle and bases with 2 part automotive. This is the hardest to mask due to the round-overs on the driver holes. There is a little margin for error where the driver flanges mate up to the front baffle. I envision using the thin plastic masking designed to cover windows in house painting to envelope the entire cabinet just leaving the front baffle exposed.
5. Remove contact paper and finish the veneer
6. Glue on bases
7. Viola! Ha!

[mlundy57]

had trouble getting my response to post. It ended up posted twice so I removed the content from this one. see below

[mlundy57]

This is exactly what I've been thinking dictates the sequence. To get that sharp line where the side panel veneer meets the front baffle the veneer needs to be done before glue up. I believe my sequence will be:

1. Veneer side panels and mask them with contact paper
2. Glue up (except for bases)
3. Mask front baffle and spray inside flat black
4. Mask inside and spray front baffle and bases with 2 part automotive. This is the hardest to mask due to the round-overs on the driver holes. There is a little margin for error where the driver flanges mate up to the front baffle. I envision using the thin plastic masking designed to cover windows in house painting to envelope the entire cabinet just leaving the front baffle exposed.
5. Remove contact paper and finish the veneer
6. Glue on bases
7. Viola! Ha!

I would install the braces during the glueup. This will insure everything stays in proper alignment and the braces make proper contact on all three sides. If you glue up without the braces, you run the rist of ahving the alignment slightly off and then the braces won't fit properly. You can end up with a brace being slightly cockeyed and not flush with the rear edges of the wings. This is the order I use:

1) Dry fit and clamp everything together, mark a line on both sides of the braces where they meet the wings, and mark a line on the wings where they meet the baffle.

2) Disassemble the cabinets

3) Sand the front edge of the wings to where they are the thickness of the veneer minus the thickness of the paint below the edge of the baffle (you're shooting for having the paint and veneer close to even with each other) this doesn't need to be exact just close, feather this back at least 3" from the edge.

3) Veneer the outside of the wings. I don't veneer the outside (top,back) edges of the veneer. I paint those the same color as the baffle but that's a personal choice.

4) Tape off all edges of the veneer that are going to be next to paint or a glue joint. You don't want any paint or glue to get on the veneer as it will negatively affect the finish

5) Tape off the areas on the outside of the lines that are on the inside pieces (where they will be inserted into the dados or rabbets)

6) Paint the inside pieces

7) Remove the tape from the inside pieces

8 ) Glue up the cabinets. Do not permanently attach the base at this time. You will need to remove do do step 9). Paint the base separately then permanently attach it to the cabinet last.

9) Cut a shallow reveal along the edges of the baffle where they meet the veneer. This will get painted the same color as the baffle and is why you didn't need to get the mating edges perfect in step 3.

10) Tape off all exposed areas that are not to be painted the baffle color

11) Paint the baffle and everything else that gets the same color

12) If the baffle and veneer are going to get the same clearcoat, remove the tape from the veneer and apply the clearcoat. If the clearcoat is going to be different, apply the clearcoat to the baffle color areas. Then remove the tape from the veneer, tape off the baffle color areas, then apply the clearcoat to the veneer.

13) Remove any remaining masking tape on the outside

14) Do any desired cutting, buffing, and polishing.

15) Remove the rest of the masking tape.

16) Touch up the inside paint if needed

17) Attach the base

Now Viola! I use a few more steps....

[subsonic1050]

That sounds like a very good order of operations. Are you painting the front baffle a color other than black? Just trying go figure out why you are painting the front separately from the inside. If that's the case then I think you'll absolutely be fine doing it the way you describe. Between the drivers and the no rez, very little of the inside of the cabinet's paint job is actually visible once it's done. Most important are the exposed edges on the back of the cabinet.

[zenfishbike]

"I would install the braces during the glueup"

9) Cut a shallow reveal along the edges of the baffle where they meet the veneer. This will get painted the same color as the baffle and is why you didn't need to get the mating edges perfect in step 3.

Mike,

Re the "braces":  A misread here, I am installing the braces during glue-up, but not the bases

Re the "shallow reveal": Would that be a shallow cut (kerf) with a thin saw blade? I think that's what you mean and a great idea to deal with imperfect surface levels between the veneered wing and front baffle.

Re touching up the black interior: Given that the parts were sprayed do you touch up with a brush? What is the advantage to spraying the parts before assembly? Wouldn't it be easier to spray it as a unit?

Subsonic1050,

Yes, I'm doing flat black in the interior, a gloss midnight blue 2 part automotive on the front baffle and base, and an india ink (black) oak veneer on the wings. Good point about the norez covering most of the interior!

Thanks so much for your detailed suggestions. I think we're zeroing in on the final sequence!