AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Power Conditioning => Topic started by: maty on 15 Nov 2017, 03:40 pm

Title: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 15 Nov 2017, 03:40 pm
I did not know in which circle to add it. If the administrator considers that it is in the wrong place, move it or delete it, please.


Maty what did you do to finally fix your issue with dc offset on your ac mains?  I thought your quad serial connected atl hifi dc blocker fixed it?

I think is better idea to open a specific thread instead of messing up the Icepower 1200AS that sells bavmike.

DC. Easy, with the DC Blocker designed by the bulgarian diyer Aleksandar. I have the prototype (with my suggeriments) and others. DCB proto, DCB, DCB x2 and finally the DCBx4.

You can find them: only PCB, PCB populated or assembled in case.

http://www.atlhifi.com/page/2/

https://www.ebay.com/sch/Prototyping-Breadboards/36327/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=&_ssn=al_tsankov

https://www.google.com/search?q=dc+blocker+maty and go to Images


In the USA:

AVA HumDinger DC Line Blocker

http://www.avahifi.com/products/humdinger-dc-line-blocker

Without capacitors. Only DC Blocker, without Ripple filter like mine with BIG and expensive EPCOS capacitors:

EPCOS B41505A7189M000 CAP, ALUM ELECT, 18000UF, 35V, CAN

-> http://uk.farnell.com/epcos/b41505a7189m000/cap-alum-elect-18000uf-35v-can/dp/2283916?ost=B41505

-> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1680485.pdf


Finally, the ARTICLE by Rod Elliot (2008)

Blocking Mains DC Offset

http://sound.whsites.net/articles/xfmr-dc.htm
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 15 Nov 2017, 03:40 pm
OFF TOPIC

Yesterday I wrote this in a hidden (Google and others) forum:

Quote
Some weeks ago the very old cables (fabric covered) of the electric company to the building burned -> a phase joined the neutral -> 400 volts!

In the DC Blocker prototype one of the two fuses burned and the varistor too.

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-Blocker-prototype-varistor-burned.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-Blocker-prototype-varistor-burned.jpg)

[updated: added photo]

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-front-side-3.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-front-side-3.jpg)

The sound after it was much better. Those cables had to add a lot of high frequency noise!

Now I have the DCB with the DCBx4 and the sound is very good. The music, the FM radio, has never sounded so good ... There are more details, the bass is more blunt, there is more energy in the music!

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/AV-Marantz-SR4500-KEF-Q100-ATL-Hi-Fi-DCB-prototype-DC-Ripple-Blocker-x4-ME.jpg

I have written it many times: (ALL types) noise is our enemy.

In short, I am VERY HAPPY. Now I feel that I can forget to buy a better amplifier and it was a magnificent decision to spent the money to clean the noise and interference.

PS: in his day I tried DCBx2 + DCBx4 and the sound was worse, there was loss of dynamics.

Quote
By the way, before all Würth 150 kHz ferrites, Schaffner RF/EMI filters, DC & Riple Blockers, sheet steel… the LPF was 15000, 16000… 19800 and now 22050 Hz. With 38000 Hz sounds good too, without fatiguing.

KEF Q100: -3 dB 49 Hz – 40 kHz

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-iZotope-RX-5-De-Hum-22050.png

Curiosity, the same VST plugin allows two different maximums:

* With foobar2000 the top is 22050 Hz

* With JRiver the top is 48000 Hz
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 15 Nov 2017, 03:57 pm
Well, my last post about the great imporvement.

Quote
And more important too: the sound is more SPATIAL or 3D.

Now sounds Jennifer Warnes – The Hunter (1992) (Vinyl, US Remaster 2011)

It sounded great but now it fills the room.

The improvement in bass is such that it is as if I had added a subwoofer! Every time I love more my cheap tweaked KEF Q100 coaxial speakers. They have never been the bottleneck of my system.

Well, that, I’m very happyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 15 Nov 2017, 04:02 pm
[French] by a very well-known canadian diyer Pinnocchio:

Links updated:

http://www.quebecdiyaudio.com/t712p150-amplificateur-ussa-dans-le-ventre-de-la-bete-construction-par-pinnocchio#16727 [pictures]

http://www.quebecdiyaudio.com/t712p150-amplificateur-ussa-dans-le-ventre-de-la-bete-construction-par-pinnocchio#16770

to English with Google

Quote
I let the amplifier work for over a week and a half and listened to lots of music. I wanted to be sure of what I heard. I will also validate with Fab, but so far I “hood” on the sound of my USSA 5!

The power supply in an amp makes all the difference, a huge difference in fact. That’s why you should never be afraid to invest in it. The double bridges of ultra-fast diodes with “soft-recovery”, the Mundorf M-Lytics MLGO condos with low impedance and ripple very high and the layout of the PSU very well done, high quality processors. All that matters a lot. This makes a power supply with lower impedance and a much lower noise in the end.

Result, full of low-level micro-details that were difficult to hear or went unnoticed, improved dynamics, a super silent background (very black) and micro-details that are no longer hidden or washed (washed). It was excellent before but there, as I told Fab, I almost fell off my chair. On some recordings that had a remarkable stage depth, it’s even better, difficult to explain, must be heard. I can stick my ear directly on the tweeter and not even a slight whistling, nothing, enough that sometimes I do not know if the amp is open or closed (I have no switch illuminated forward)!

In short, I am very impressed to hear that with a high quality PSU, the USSA 5 sounds even better. Proof that the PSU is the "bottleneck". ]

Quote
J’ai acheté 8 condos Mundorf M-Lytics MLGO 33000uF 40Vdc pour mettre dans mes deux nouveaux PSU pour le USSA 3/5. Un ESR de 6mOhm et Ripple de 11.2A

Links updated
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: Oneguy on 15 Nov 2017, 09:07 pm
This product may have been mentioned in another thread but it seemed apt for this one:

https://emotiva.com/product/cmx-2/

I don’t have any experience (never needed a DC blocker) but I have read positive professionsal and non-professional reviews on it.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 16 Nov 2017, 07:56 am
Yes, the Emotiva. DC blockers and RFI/EMI filter.

[Customer Reviews] https://www.amazon.com/Emotiva-CMX-2-Precision-Restoration-Common/product-reviews/B008O37LXY/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

I have a lot of Würth 150 kHz ferrites and Schaffner RFI/EMI filters in my house. They have the best specifications I have found, and I researched a lot in their day.

This week finally I have an INCREDIBLE sound (well, with very good recordings). I am beginning to discover that some old ones have too much background noise, which I did not appreciate before:

Bill Evans Trio - Waltz For Debby (1961) (2000 Riverside Remaster 20bitK2) [FLAC]

The vinyl rip sounds better now!
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 16 Nov 2017, 07:59 am
Look at Google Images

https://www.google.com/search?q=W%C3%BCrth+150+kHz+ferrites+maty

https://www.google.com/search?q=Schaffner+RF%2FEMI+cables+maty
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 16 Nov 2017, 08:59 am
Schaffner FN 9244B:

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/IEC-inlet-filter-Schaffner-FN_9244-specs.png

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/IEC-inlet-filter-Schaffner-FN_9244-typical-filter-attenuation.png

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/IEC-inlet-filter-Schaffner-FN_9244-cicuit.png


Würth 150 kHz ferrite

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Wurth-150-khz-ferrite-impedance-curve.png


finnsam has found a better ferrite and ten times cheaper!!!

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/320039-class-amp-emi-reduction-3.html#post5372182


Laird-Signal Integrity Products LFB095051-000, ferrite

http://assets.lairdtech.com/home/bra...095051-000.pdf


Würth 150 kHz

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1919956.pdf


10x Cheaper and better than Würth.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/laird-signal-integrity-products/LFB095051-000/240-2277-ND/703465
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 16 Nov 2017, 09:09 am
Theory:

http://audiosystemsgroup.com/SAC0305Ferrites.pdf

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/computer-audio/technical-papers/myths-and-snake-oil


Some threads wrote by me.

[Spanish] http://aficionados.foroactivo.com/t197p125-usb-isolator-ifi-iusb-vs-teradak-u9va-teralink-adum4160-filtros-schaffner-lampizator-ac-filter-diy-esa-silk-estabilizador-regulador-de-tension-voltaje-isolation-balanced-transformer-dc-blocker-blocking-pc-silencioso-en-aussar-variac

[Spanis] http://aficionados.foroactivo.com/t197p150-usb-isolator-ifi-iusb-vs-teradak-u9va-teralink-adum4160-filtros-schaffner-lampizator-ac-filter-diy-esa-silk-estabilizador-regulador-de-tension-voltaje-isolation-balanced-transformer-dc-blocker-blocking-pc-silencioso-en-aussar-variac#15421

[Spanish] http://aficionados.foroactivo.com/t197p175-usb-isolator-ifi-iusb-vs-teradak-u9va-teralink-adum4160-filtros-schaffner-lampizator-ac-filter-diy-esa-silk-estabilizador-regulador-de-tension-voltaje-isolation-balanced-transformer-dc-blocker-blocking-pc-silencioso-en-aussar-variac

[Spanish] http://aficionados.foroactivo.com/t197p200-usb-isolator-ifi-iusb-vs-teradak-u9va-teralink-adum4160-filtros-schaffner-lampizator-ac-filter-diy-esa-silk-estabilizador-regulador-de-tension-voltaje-isolation-balanced-transformer-dc-blocker-blocking-pc-silencioso-en-aussar-variac


Cables made by Aleksandar to a friend. With Schaffner and Würth ferrites.

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/cables-Schaffner-filter-Wurth-ferrite-150Khz-IEC-C13-Schurter-from-ATL.jpg)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 16 Nov 2017, 09:12 am
and finally

[Spanish] Power Strip Distributor ATL Hi-Fi PSD-08 Maty's edition

http://aficionados.foroactivo.com/t318-power-strip-distributor-atl-hi-fi-psd-08-maty-s-edition

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-PSD-08-filtered-mocenigo-inside-with-schaffner.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-PSD-08-filtered-mocenigo-inside-with-schaffner.jpg)

power strip + fuses + varistor + schaffner RF/EMI + DC ripple & blocker x2 (with big EPCOS capacitors)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 16 Nov 2017, 09:35 am
This product is very interesting if someone want to buy build an amplifier with BIG toroidal (500 VA or more - you know, the inrush current limiter; or two 300 VA)

Combined module Soft Start (inrush current limiter) & DC Blocker (trap, filter) – assembled and tested PCB

http://www.atlhifi.com/shop/populated-pcb/combined-module-soft-start-inrush-current-limiter-dc-blocker-trap-filter-assembled-and-tested-pcb/

optimized by me, like others pictures

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-Soft-Start-DC-Blocker-module.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-Soft-Start-DC-Blocker-module.jpg)

[IMG] https://www.atlhifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/ss_dcb-sch.png
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 21 Nov 2017, 07:23 pm
Simple DC blocker with small capacitors and...

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/39895-transformer-noise-cure-post5248105.html

Quote
I just want to thank you all, because I was in a big trouble with my studio monitors (Focal CMS65), whose internal toroidal transformers made lot of noise, making them excellent monitors for mixing or listening, but just annoying when idle …

I’ve used schematic posted by byteboy in post#15:

(http://members.chello.nl/h.vredegoor/xfmr-dc-blocking-simpl.GIF) (http://members.chello.nl/h.vredegoor/xfmr-dc-blocking-simpl.GIF)

My monitors transformers are now perfectly silent.


Quote
I used 3300uF caps. I will try with bigger ones if i find it in my stock (but with theses values, it sounds good)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 23 Nov 2017, 10:04 am
Somewhere over the rainbow I wrote two days ago:

Today I changed the DCB prototype with the small EPCOS with the DCB of BIG EPCOS and the sound with Marantz is better with DCB x5.

But the Yamaha sounds worse (DCB proto + DCBx2) but I do not listen to music with him. I have to decide if I order a new DCBx2 and two BIG EPCOS for the DCB prototype.

Old picture, DCB proto + DCB + DCBx2:

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DCB-DCB-DCBx2.jpg


And not only the music. This week I see Gomorra S02 series. The sound of S02E06 was incredible with the DCBx5. It was like I was on the street!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gomorrah_(TV_series)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2049116/

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/gomorrah_2014/s02/?


************* ************* *************

By the way, the DCB x5 combo only has 10 x 18000 mF BIG EPCOS capacitors 8)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 25 Nov 2017, 11:44 am
I reproduce what I just commented in other forums:


Saturday morning, you know: weekend and clean power in my house.

Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio – Midnight Sugar (2004) (SACD) [ISO]

The sound before was excellent but now it is more!

Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio – Midnight Sugar (1974) (Vinyl 1975, *********, 45rpm 180g pressing) {24-96} [FLAC]

It has more bass than SACD, maybe too much. Very great sound too.

Years ago, before all DC Blockers, RF/EMI filters, ferrites… many times it was unbearable to listen to music on my other system with big speakers.

and

The Wailin’ Jennys – Live at the Mauch Chunk Opera House (2009) [FLAC]

12. Paint a Picture

Since Thursday I hear this great work. This theme and now sounds better, much better!

[Customer reviews] https://www.amazon.com/Live-Mauch-Chunk-Opera-House/product-reviews/B002EZLPHG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

More music

Maria Joao Pires – Les Sonates Pour Piano Vol 1 (1976) (Vinyl, ********) {24-96} [FLAC]

The piano sounds glorious!

I strong recommend all the six volumes.

[French, CD] https://www.amazon.fr/Mozart-Sonates-pour-Piano-Coffret/product-reviews/B000G75994/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?showViewpoints=1&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

Saturday night

I listen a new rip:

Jim Croce - You Don't Mess Around With Jim (1972) (Vinyl, ********, MFSL) {24-96} [FLAC]

https://www.discogs.com/Jim-Croce-You-Dont-Mess-Around-With-Jim/release/2761728

This MFSL sounds better than the normal one, which suffered from a certain rumble.

The sound is so good which makes me reaffirm my decision not to buy a new amplifier (like the new generation of class D: Icepower AS1200AS (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153645.0)) for now. If I enjoy so much with some excellent recordings and interpretations, getting excited, why should I take a chance?

I really LOVE the old but very good records before the eighties. Why use tubes -and the second harmonic preminence- during their recording? I do not know but it is an addictive sound.

Having the system so optimized and with the maximum noise attenuation that I have achieved without dynamics loss does not seem like a logical decision a new purchase.

The End?
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 25 Nov 2017, 09:05 pm
This vinyl and the quality of the sound is such that it sounds for third consecutive time! I do not remember when the same thing happened with other album  :icon_surprised:  :icon_surprised:  :icon_surprised:

Well, that is a wonderful vinyl. And yes, it is MFSL but sounds so sweet, crystalline and detailed too.

For the umpteenth time: noise is our enemy.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 26 Nov 2017, 09:24 pm
One more: old mono from 1958.

Poll Winners - Ride Again (1958) (Vinyl, original mono pressing) {24-96} [FLAC]

https://www.discogs.com/The-Poll-Winners-Ride-Again/release/3259119

[Customer reviews] https://www.amazon.com/Poll-Winners-Ride-Again/product-reviews/B000000YSE/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

Yes, old mono but great sound! Barney Kessel's guitar sounds sweeeeet. Bass and drums too. Magnificient mono.


********** ********** ***********

And so I finish with my impressions regarding the current (and final) great improvement.
Title: TELARC: Copland
Post by: maty on 30 Nov 2017, 07:30 pm
I know I know but I am listening a new 24/192 vinyl rip and the sound is AMAZING.

How is it possible for a small 5.25" coaxial speaker (KEF Q100) to be able to reproduce an orchestral mass so well?

Quote
DR18      -0.12 dB   -22.99 dB      7:21 02-A2 Rodeo - Buckaroo Holiday

Copland* / Louis Lane Conducting Atlanta Symphony Orchestra ‎– Appalachian Spring / Rodeo / Fanfare For The Common Man

https://www.discogs.com/es/Copland-Louis-Lane-Conducting-Atlanta-Symphony-Orchestra-Appalachian-Spring-Rodeo-Fanfare-For-The-Co/release/3424988

(https://img.discogs.com/Og9pZ6Bd8BwNOF7bW5B1D6NAjDg=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-3424988-1454184349-2398.jpeg.jpg)

Quote
foobar2000 1.3.17 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2017-11-30 20:28:10

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Lane, Atlanta SO / Copland - Appalachian Spring. Rodeo. Fanfare For The Common Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR16      -0.47 dB   -21.79 dB      3:20 01-A1 Fanfare For The Common Man
DR18      -0.12 dB   -22.99 dB      7:21 02-A2 Rodeo - Buckaroo Holiday
DR14     -14.74 dB   -34.88 dB      3:44 03-A3 Rodeo - Corral Nocturne
DR14      -9.90 dB   -30.57 dB      4:05 04-A4 Rodeo - Saturday Night Waltz
DR16      -0.89 dB   -23.20 dB      3:21 05-A5 Rodeo - Hoe-Down
DR17      -0.39 dB   -23.85 dB     22:24 06-B1 Appalachian Spring (Suite)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  6
Official DR value: DR16

Samplerate:        96000 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   24
Bitrate:           2578 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
===========================================================
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 6 Dec 2017, 11:08 am
Today is Spanish Constitution festivity. This morning is like a weekend: very? clean mains => the sound of this remastered old (1958) vinyl is magnificent!

Reiner, The Chicago SO - Prokofieff, Stravinsky‎ - Lieutenant Kije, Song Of The Nightingale (1958)

Vinyl, RCA Victor, Remastered by Bernie Grundman, 180g, 45 rpm

https://www.discogs.com/Prokofieff-Stravinsky-Reiner-Chicago-Symphony-Lieutenant-Kije-Song-Of-The-Nightingale/release/3727919

(http://www.kleifrirecords.com/server/Portal_0003974/img/products/prokofiev-lieutenant-kije-stravinsky-song-of-the-nightingale_610209.jpg)

Quote
foobar2000 1.3.17 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2017-12-06 11:56:05

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Reiner, The Chicago SO / Lieutenant Kije / Song Of The Nightingale
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR14      -0.50 dB   -23.09 dB      4:16 01-Lieutenant Kije, Op. 60 (The Birth Of Kije)
DR15      -6.63 dB   -30.53 dB      4:29 02-Lieutenant Kije, Op. 60 (Romance)
DR14      -1.18 dB   -21.76 dB      2:50 03-Lieutenant Kije, Op. 60 (The Wedding Of Kije)
DR12      -2.00 dB   -19.49 dB      2:41 04-Lieutenant Kije, Op. 60 (Troika)
DR13      -9.95 dB   -30.05 dB      6:09 05-Lieutenant Kije, Op. 60 (The Burial Of Kije)
DR13      -2.47 dB   -23.36 dB     10:31 06-Song Of The Nightingale (Symphonic Poem) (Part 1)
DR17      -2.40 dB   -27.37 dB     12:00 07-Song Of The Nightingale (Symphonic Poem) (Concluded)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  7
Official DR value: DR14

Samplerate:        96000 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   24
Bitrate:           2486 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
===========================================================
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Dec 2017, 09:19 pm
Mains Power Quality by Rod Elliott, August 2014

http://sound.whsites.net/articles/mains-quality.htm

Quote
Contents

    Introduction
    1.0  'Dirty' Electricity
        1.1  Distortion
        1.2  Impedance & Regulation
        1.3  Noise
            1.3.1  Ferrites
        1.4  Frequency
    2.0  Voltage Stabilisers
    3.0  Isolating/ Balancing Transformers
    Conclusion
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 6 Jan 2018, 09:43 am
There is no stock of the Big EPCOS capacitors that I like so much, so I will have to buy some expensive Mundorf M-Lytics MLGO to change the ones of the prototype (15,0000µF, 85ºC).

The problem is the case: (capacitors) high <= 50 mm.

Mundorf MLytic Audio Grade (AG) MLGO  25VDC / 47,000µF seems the best 50mm option:

[PDF] http://www.mundorf.com/english%201.1/Broschuere%20Einzelseiten/MLGO.pdf

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Mundorf-MLGO-table.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Mundorf-MLGO-table.png)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Mundorf+MLytic+AG

€21,44  :o

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/mlgoag180-47000uf-25vdc-mlytic-electrolytic-caps-p-8251.html

22,90 €tax incl.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/condensateurs-chimiques-mundorf-mlytic/mundorf-m-lytic-ag-capacitor-25v-47000f-p-5991.html

$26.94

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/mundorf-mlytic-ag-mlgo-47000uf-25vdc-p-4097

$29.88 pcX USD Price

http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_ele_mundorf_plugin.html


The Big EPCOS cost me €12 each, plus taxes!
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 6 Jan 2018, 10:08 am
About the benefits of MLytic® technology

http://www.mundorf.com/en/?category=hifi&menu=caps_power&content=mlytic

Need Comment For Mundorf M-Lytic AG caps

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/254216-comment-mundorf-lytic-ag-caps.html

Alcon Electronics PG-6DI

-> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/254216-comment-mundorf-lytic-ag-caps-post3892565.html

Quote
They have very similar specs of Mundorf and even the can looks very similar. When I used this the sound lost its attack. It was all smooth. I didnt understand why was this happening. Switched back to normal caps. The Alcon had good esr and esl ratings very close to Mundorf and now I am bit worried that even Mundorf sounds like alcon or do i need to use brighter sounding decoupling caps like either Muse or Cerafine?

[PDF] http://www.alconelectronics.com/images/img/pdf/Aluminium-Electrolytic-Capacitors-PG-6DI.pdf

Better specs than Mundorf and cheaper!

Problem (with my case): 80 mm or more.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 6 Jan 2018, 10:55 am
At first it will be with the Yamaha so that these condensers of so much capacitance will burn. Then it will substitute the DCB I have with the Marantz and verify if it was worth the expense.

Now:

* Yamaha: DCB prototype -> DCBx2

* Marantz: DCB -> DCBx4


DCBx2 = DCB -> DCB. With two outputs.

DCBx4 = DCB -> DCB -> DCB -> DCB. With four outputs.


DCB protoype with EPCOS 15,0000µF, 85ºC

All DCB with EPCOS 18,0000µF, 105ºC
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 10 Jan 2018, 10:32 am
I am waiting...

HifiCollective, 2 x Mundorf MLytic Audio Grade (AG) MLGO  25VDC / 47,000µF

56,46 EUR, with taxes + cheap shipping to Spain from UK.

Audiophonics.fr and audiohobby.eu are more expensive.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 16 Feb 2018, 03:03 pm
DC Blocker prototype with Mundorf 47,000 uF and new blue varistor

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-prototype-inside-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-prototype-inside-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-prototype-inside-detail-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-prototype-inside-detail-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg)

The original prototype

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocker-varistor-fuse-ATL-maty-inside.jpg

Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Feb 2018, 10:35 am
Other person has a DC Blocker x2 and DC Blocker x4 with the BIG Mundorf capacitors. With a cable bag to convert them to DCBx3 and DCBx1 if the attenuation is excessive in your supercomplex system. The boxes have the same dimmensions.

DCBx2, without aluminum front plate:

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x2-inside-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x2-inside-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg)

Here the DCBx4, without aluminum front plate:

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x2-2-inside-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x2-2-inside-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x2-2-inside-detail-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x2-2-inside-detail-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg)

DCBx2 and DCBx4 rear have 2+2 outputs:

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x2-2-rear-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x2-2-rear-Mundorf-47000uF.jpg)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Feb 2018, 10:43 am
My first proposal for the supercomplex system:

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/supercomplex-DCBx4-Mundorf-Yamaha.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/supercomplex-DCBx4-Mundorf-Yamaha.jpg)

For now without Würth 150 kHz ferrites and DIY cables with Schaffner RF/EMI filters. You know, step by step (first with a DCBx2), but he could not resist ordering a DCBx2 DCBx4 too.


He had a cheap LC Audio Filter but...

http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=316


The Airlink Advanced Filter Power Supply EU

https://airlinktransformers.com/product/advanced-filter-power-supply-asf3000eu

[IMG] https://airlinktransformers.com/images/products/1394708116_photo2_DSC00450web.jpg

[IMG] https://airlinktransformers.com/images/products/615002767_photo3_DSC00455small.jpg
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Feb 2018, 11:24 am
By the way, my prototype is burning... with TV system. The sound is better.

After burning -&gt; Marantz system (DCB + DCBx4).

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/AV-Marantz-SR4500-KEF-Q100-ATL-Hi-Fi-DCB-prototype-DC-Ripple-Blocker-x4-ME.jpg
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 17 Feb 2018, 02:47 pm
Good thread, very interesting.

Will this block DC on the mains?
Looks simple, a bridge and 2 caps, connected on the negative line.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176255)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176256)


Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Feb 2018, 03:05 pm
Yes.

But how much DC?

And with the BIG and good capacitors -> ripple and not only a small DC at mains.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 17 Feb 2018, 03:13 pm
Yes.

But how much DC?

And with the BIG and good capacitors -> ripple and not only a small DC at mains.

Hi Maty,

For a power conditioner project like the photo above would it be worth installing your blocker rather then the one above?

Also, how can I check for DC at the mains?

Awhile back I checked DC at the RCA outputs of some of my equipment but I don't think that's the correct way to do it  :?
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Feb 2018, 03:30 pm
First, I have a very bad mains. Almost 240 Vac (230 Vac is the standard in Spain/EU) and a lot of DC at mains. And "tons" of RF/EMI (in the atmosphere too).

The AV Marantz SR4500 has an EI transformer, that are more immune to the continuous than the toroidal ones.

Usually small DC at mains is a problem with toroidal transformers > 400 - 500 VA.

Small DC is problematic when:

> 10 mVdc in USA (110 Vac) or  > 20 mVdc in Europe (230 Vac).

With DC the transformers they get very hot besides stopping working in the linear zone of the hysteresis curve (saturation) -> distortion

https://hvdc.ca/webhelp/EMTDC/Transformers/The_Classical_Approach/Transformer_Hysteresis.htm

(https://hvdc.ca/webhelp/image2217.gif)

To measure you need and oscilloscope. But carefully!

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/98656/using-oscilloscope-safely-with-ac-mains
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Feb 2018, 03:46 pm
By the way, before the voltage rise (400 Vac -> yellow varistor kaput) I had 2,5 Vdc - 3 Vdc at mains!
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 19 Feb 2018, 10:27 am
A clarification.

When I speak of cleaning the ripple I mean to eliminate/attenuate the noise (or a part of noise: the harmonics of the AC line frequency of 50/60Hz and OTHER harmonics - kHz) from the dirty MAINS that is in the frequency band of the audio (usually < 200 kHz - 300 kHz in fast amps, where the amplifiers work internally and not the one we can hear < 20 kHz) and that is can not be eliminated by Würth 150 kHz ferrites and Schaffner RF/EMI filters.

Another thing is ripple in DC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(electrical)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 19 Feb 2018, 05:39 pm
I am a big believer in low ripple.  I recently built a dedicated audio desktop computer and put in a higher end low ripple power supply and I was stunned at the difference in sound.  Much cleaner and detailed sound.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 19 Feb 2018, 08:21 pm
Months ago, my TV system:

DCB (prototype, cheap EPCOS) + DCB + DCBx2

Until a week ago:

DCB (prototype, cheap EPCOS) + DCBx2

Now:

DCB (mundorf) + DCBx2

and just now is Monday night. The TV sound is much better than a week ago and better than months ago! TDT TV with sound from an AV Yamaha.

DCB and DCBx2 with much expensive and better EPCOS capacitors than the original DCB prototype.

In other words:

DCB proto with Mundorf is better than DCB proto + DCB.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 20 Feb 2018, 03:16 pm
DCB prototype had:

* EPCOS B41231A7159M000 -  Electrolytic Capacitor, Snap-in, 15000 µF, 35 V, B41231 Series, 2000 hours @ 85°C, ± 20%  (EUR 3.97, now)

and now:

* Mundorf MLytic Audio Grade (AG) MLGO  25VDC / 47000µF @ 125°C (EUR 21.44, now)

DCB, DCBx2 and DCBx4:

* EPCOS B41505A7189M000 -  Electrolytic Capacitor, Long Life, 18000 µF, 35 V, 5000 hours @ 105°C, ± 20% (EUR 12, two years ago)

prices without taxes (UK 19%) and shipping.


GRAPHS: medium life electrolytic capacitor

(https://i1.wp.com/maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/capacitor-condensador-electrolitico-vida-media-temperatura.png) (https://i1.wp.com/maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/capacitor-condensador-electrolitico-vida-media-temperatura.png)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 20 Feb 2018, 06:31 pm
Maty,

Are you affiliated with ATL?

Can you give me links on these products?

Thanks.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 20 Feb 2018, 06:51 pm
https://www.google.com/search?q=atl+hi-fi

-> https://www.atlhifi.com/

-> -> https://www.atlhifi.com/contact/

-> https://www.ebay.com/usr/al_tsankov

-> -> https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=al_tsankov&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&searchInterval=30

I am just a Spanish buyer. We were thinking DC Blocker boxes together -> we have exchanged many emails. And I have helped others who have asked for my help, without charging anything.


********* ********* ***********

Leibowitz, Royal PO - Moussorgsky ‎– A Night On Bare Mountain, Pictures At An Exhibition (1963) (Vinyl, *******, Analogue Productions 2009 Remastered, 45rpm) {24-96} [FLAC]

https://www.discogs.com/es/Moussorgsky-Royal-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Leibowitz-The-Power-Of-The-Orchestra-A-Night-On-The-Bare-Mo/master/372770

(https://img.discogs.com/LtoPp5-QoZDXeDBvsEQ8bBmVg6w=/fit-in/600x595/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-3097846-1464210114-9634.png.jpg)

Very great rip/music/sound!

I continue to marvel at how a speakers with a 5,25" coaxial can play an orchestral mass so well. KEF Q100 (cheap tweaked).
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 20 Feb 2018, 08:10 pm
I have been standing all the time, moving from side to side, waving my arms like an orchestra conductor!

One word: EMOTION.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 22 Feb 2018, 04:06 pm
Audio Grade DC Blocker - HF Filter by Holton Audio

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/238116-audio-grade-dc-blocker-hf-filter-by-holton-audio/

(https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/uploads/monthly_2017_12/5a307561b8878_DCBlockerOne-6.thumb.jpg.dd67e6575b43c1b78c98af4bb1fe0ab9.jpg) (https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/uploads/monthly_2017_12/5a307561b8878_DCBlockerOne-6.thumb.jpg.dd67e6575b43c1b78c98af4bb1fe0ab9.jpg)

Holton DC Blocker One

https://holtonprecisionaudio.com/products/holton-dc-blocker-one

AUS $490 = EUR 311 = USD 384.5

It has a RF/EMI inlet. Only one output. Without varistor. Well, two meters.

The price is audiophile!
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 22 Feb 2018, 04:16 pm
Four generic? cheap capacitors: 47,000uF, 85 ºC, 16V

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Holton-Audio-DC-Blocker-47000uF-85C-16Vx4.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Holton-Audio-DC-Blocker-47000uF-85C-16Vx4.jpg)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 22 Feb 2018, 06:31 pm
I have a thread about DC Blocking (and others about DAC, amps, audio links...) in other forums. I just updated it and the first image is from the inside of my DCBx2 = DC blocking turbo (two PCB "in series").

DCBx2 aka turbo

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocking-turbo-inside.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocking-turbo-inside.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/DC-blocker-2-nakatomi.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/DC-blocker-2-nakatomi.jpg)


DCB + DCB prototype with EPCOS

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocking-85-105.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocking-85-105.jpg)


DC blocker turbo + DC blocker, both with electrolytic capacitors EPCOS 105°C

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocker-turbo-and-DC-blocker.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocker-turbo-and-DC-blocker.jpg)


DCBx4 = DC & Ripple Blocker x4 ME aka Maty Edition

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocker-x4-v2-front.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocker-x4-v2-front.png)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocker-x4-v2-back.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocker-x4-v2-back.png)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-DCB4-box-no-paint-front.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-DCB4-box-no-paint-front.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-DCB4-box-no-paint-back.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-DCB4-box-no-paint-back.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-design-aluminum-engraved-front.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-design-aluminum-engraved-front.png)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-DCB-x4-ME-typo-test.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-DCB-x4-ME-typo-test.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-front.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-front.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-back.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-back.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-front.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-front.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-back.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-back.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-front-side.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-front-side.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-front-side-2.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-front-side-2.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-front-side-3.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-open-front-side-3.jpg)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 23 Feb 2018, 10:17 pm
Interesting. MATLAB software.

MathWorks DC Blocker (https://es.mathworks.com/help/dsp/ref/dcblocker.html?s_tid=gn_loc_drop)

Quote
(https://es.mathworks.com/help/examples/dsp/win64/xxdcblock_example_diagram.png)

Use DC Blocker to Remove DC Component of Signal

In the model, run the simulation. The spectrum of the input signal shows tones at 150 Hz and 250 Hz and a significant (0 dBW) DC component.

(https://es.mathworks.com/help/examples/dsp/win64/xxdcblock_spectrum1.png)

Select the DC Blocker block by double-clicking on it and change the algorithm type from IIR to Subtract mean. Rerun the simulation. The spectral output from the DC Blocker shows that the Subtract mean estimation method results in a DC component of less than −100 dBW.

(https://es.mathworks.com/help/examples/dsp/win64/xxdcblock_spectrum3.png)


Quote
DC Blocker with Fixed Point Data

Constellation diagrams and spectrum analyzers are used to show the improvements from the DC Blocker.

[BIG IMG] https://es.mathworks.com/help/examples/dsp/win64/xxdcBlockerCIC_model_diagram.png

Look at the spectrum of the noisy signal with the DC offset. Notice that the signal has a peak at 0 Hz.

(https://es.mathworks.com/help/examples/dsp/win64/xxspectrum_dc_offset.png)

Observe the spectrum of the noisy signal after the DC Blocker removes the offset. The spectral peak at 0 Hz has been removed.

(https://es.mathworks.com/help/examples/dsp/win64/xxspectrum_dc_removed.png)

Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 23 Feb 2018, 10:49 pm

  (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176567)


   
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 24 Feb 2018, 08:53 am
Oh my god, 16 diodes! And EPCOS caps too  :P

Link? Easy: https://www.google.com/search?q=dc+blocker+red -> Images

DCT-03 The DC trap, DC filter, high-end style, heavy duty

-> http://sjostromaudio.com/pages/index.php/hifi-projects/187-dct03-the-dc-trap-high-end-style-heavy-duty

(http://sjostromaudio.com/hifi_pics/hifi_100pr/dct03r0_overview.jpg) (http://sjostromaudio.com/hifi_pics/hifi_100pr/dct03r0_overview.jpg)

Quote
Interesting features:

    Room for up to 6 x 68000 uF snap-in high performance caps.
    Four DC blocking voltages.
    Very thick copper traces, virtually impossible to burn off.
    Gold plated pads.

    
Quote
Operating voltage:    0-240 VAC, 50-60 Hz
Max DC voltage:    1, 2, 3 or 4 V
Max inrush current:    Approx 120-200 A peak depending of chosen diode type
Max continuous current:    See datasheet for used capacitors
Dimensions:    81.3 (3.2") x 192.4 (7,58") mm

[BIG IMG] http://sjostromaudio.com/hifi_pics/hifi_100pr/dct03r0schema_p1color.png

Quote
The DC trap makes sure that no DC slips through. The primary winding is AC coupled with help from six big electrolytic capacitors. The inrush current will go through the diodes when the capacitors have been charged over 1 or 4 volts and the normal current will only go through the capacitors.

Quote
Circuit description

This design is very simple, just a couple of diodes and capacitors. The purpose of the diodes is to limit the DC voltage across the caps, especially at high load and at power on. The pcb contains of 16 diodes where there are two in parallel for each direction. This is for increasing the current capacity to the double. Normally you should not connect diodes in parallel in they not are on the same die but in this case I think it will work fine since they will have the same temperature and will most likely not continuously carry any larger currents. I recommend that you solder all 16 diodes. The only disadvantage is a slightly higher cost. Don't try to desolder. You will only damage the pcb.

(http://sjostromaudio.com/hifi_pics/hifi_100pr/dct03r0_top.jpg)

(http://sjostromaudio.com/hifi_pics/hifi_100pr/dct03r0_bottom.jpg)

Well, I have not problem to desolder the little EPCOS because they are not glued to PCB in the prototype (the news are glued) and... Aleksandar think in all:

(https://www.atlhifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/DSC01845-e1456759015204-727x300.jpg)

PCB for modified Sulzer regulator – v.2

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/bare-pcb/pcb-for-modified-sulzer-regulator-v-2/

Quote
PCB for the schematic is with dimensions 163×70 mm.

PCB thickness: FR4 1.55 mm. Copper thickness: 35um (1oz). Surface finish – Nickel Gold (ENIG).

It is one-layer design with solder mask coating on bottom layer for best durability. Silk screen with parts layout is placed on the top of the PCB.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 24 Feb 2018, 09:10 pm
 :D Yes.  What do you think of it?   I'm buying 2 boards..... I'll be using them on 120vac lines inside 2 DIY power conditioners.
             That's the plan anyway. Could use your thought's.... I'm a bit green on DIY but learning.

Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 24 Feb 2018, 09:36 pm
I think you must draw a scheme of your system.

Power conditioners? Which? I only know one (and expensive) that has a DC Blocker but only as an option!

The more information we collect, less chance of error or spending too much.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 24 Feb 2018, 09:56 pm
They will be pretty much like the pic below but with DCT-03 before 3 or 4 filters in each box similar to the photo below.
1 unit will likely be four 3 amp filters, the second unit will probably be 6 and 10 amp units.
The filters are already built.

System is bi-amped.

Turntable
Phono stage
S.S. Preamp
Tube Buffer
Marchand XM-44 active crossover
Amp-1 (highs)
Amp-2 (lows)

CD Transport
Dac
2nd Tube Buffer after the DAC, before the preamp, maybe, not sure yet but I already have 2 tube buffers.

I'll drawl a picture later if I can but that's pretty much it.



My gut feeling is the DCT-03 is likely overkill, but I can built it as I get the funds.


Not mine. Gordy built this. RIP.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176605)



Example only:



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176606)


Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 25 Feb 2018, 11:49 am
What Power conditioners do you have?

Maybe a DCB + DCB aka DCBx2, aka turbo with Mundorf.

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocking-turbo-inside.jpg
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: Telstar on 11 Mar 2018, 02:18 am
maty, do you remember Felicia?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18441.0

That's a really good power conditioner.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 11 Mar 2018, 04:31 am

What Power conditioners do you have?


Several Felix with DC Blockers. Might build the Felicia some day, maybe. IDK.

Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 11 Mar 2018, 11:07 am
Felix conditioners and DC blockers.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150697.0

Better in white your diagram:

Quote
Lastest revision.

4 Felix, 19 amps, in an old Adcom 535 chassis.

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Felix-DC-blockers-WireNut.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Felix-DC-blockers-WireNut.png)

They are only DC blockers. Good idea the star ground.

I think was better idea ONE DC blocker or maybe two and four outputs. Only RF/EMI filters, ferrites and isolated or balanced transformers clean in both sides, so it makes sense to use several. But not with DC Blockers.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 11 Mar 2018, 04:37 pm

They are only DC blockers. Good idea the star ground.

I think was better idea ONE DC blocker or maybe two and four outputs. Only RF/EMI filters, ferrites and isolated or balanced transformers clean in both sides, so it makes sense to use several. But not with DC Blockers.


Hi maty,

I'm not sure I understand correctly :scratch:
My drawing shows a DC blocker on the right, 4 "Felix" 120vac Filters (Occam's design) and 4 outlets.

Are you saying a better design would be to use an RFI/EMI IEC Inlet Filter, a ferrite on the power cord, and a isolation transformer?

Something like this maybe but with 2-120vac outlets?


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177347)


 
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 11 Mar 2018, 04:55 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177348)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 11 Mar 2018, 05:26 pm
I am sorry, you are right. I need coffeeeee.

RF/EMI filter and ferrites is always better for each component like your implementation.

You can easy try to connect two of the Felix filters: Felix -> Felix -> component. And verify if the sound is better or not.

If the sound is better you can add other Felix or Schaffner RF/EMI filter. Each component is different; someone only need one filter, others two or one + ferrite or two + ferrite. It is trail and error.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 12 Mar 2018, 01:03 am
 Hi maty,

I did try a Felix>Felix>component> awhile back but from what I remember it didn't do much better then a signal Felix and
also I didn't want to use up my parts so fast, double parts so I stayed with just 1 Felix.

I'm interested in trying ferrite's and IEC Inlet Filters, or the chassis mount type of inlet filters.
Do you have your favorites of ferrite's or Filters that you like to use?
I think your 220vac, while I’m 120vac.

The group buy at DIYaudio isn’t going very well so far with the large DC Blocker with 6 caps and 16 diodes.
Not enough interest so far.

I think I'll look into the DC Blocker pcb’s from ATL. They look good.

Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 12 Mar 2018, 09:01 am
if with two Felix you do not notice improvement then you do not need the Felix filter an ferrite with this component.

By the way, Felix attenuation measures/graphs?

Years ago I studied the specs of the known RF/EMI filters and ferrrites to work in audio band, f < 1 Mhz. The best are Schaffner filters (better B: medical) and Würth 150 kHz ferrites. If you know of other better ones, put the link and we will check their graphs.

Quote
The group buy at DIYaudio isn’t going very well so far with the large DC Blocker with 6 caps and 16 diodes. Not enough interest so far.

If I am not wrong he is in the electronic cabins design of Volvo trucks in Sweden.

Aleksandar is a very perfectionist person and he pays a lot of attention to details. All PCBs are very well made. With diyer mentality, so that the components can be changed several times without damaging the PCBs. It has also designed a headphone amplifier of its own and is with another design for speakers. With MOSFETs and very fast.

Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 13 Mar 2018, 02:56 am
Hi maty,

I’d like to get your thoughts on my drawing / draft. You are more knowledgeable then me and might see mistakes or a better way of doing things.

I have one turntable, a 40 year old JVC QL-7 manual, direct drive TT-71 unit.
Ive replaced 16 electrolytic caps in it, many where leaking.

The Transformer in my Turntable is not a quite one.

While I have the table apart why not move the noisy transformer into it’s own enclosure.
My drawing below show plans to remove that noisy transformer and place it into a separate enclosure along with a DC Blocker and Felix power conditioner.

Putting a Felix after the transformer secondary's might be better but, i haven't figured that out due to the 4 secondary wire outs.


Damn, being OCD and trying to learn last for hours and hours.

Here's my draft.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177411)



BTW, Black and white does look better  :thumb:
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 13 Mar 2018, 11:17 am
If you want make very good rips with a turntable the power is more important in... the phono. Phono with linear PSU and DC at mains is a bad thing. DC Blocker or a good SMPS (they do not have problems with DC).

There are many old vinyls made with masters that have problems with DC -> hum.

Then you need to add the phono in the scheme.

You do need a RF/EMI filters with the turntable. And no DC blocker too. The bottleneck is the phono.


* It is assumed that turntable has an engine that barely varies the rotation speed.

* The electrolytic capacitors dry up over time even if they are not used. Better to change them, some quality -without being audiophiles- and 105ºC to last longer.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 13 Mar 2018, 01:59 pm
Thanks maty,

I had planned on doing the phono stage as well in another separate box but I think I'll be better served sticking to my original drawing of 1 box with a blocker and 4 Felix.
Easier, less costly, more efficient, me thinks  :D
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 13 Mar 2018, 02:37 pm
Talking about capacitors...

Electrolytic capacitors: useful life

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/capacitor-condensador-electrolitico-vida-media-temperatura.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/capacitor-condensador-electrolitico-vida-media-temperatura.png)


and from Diyaudio forums:

[PDF] My_Ref_FE - Tutorial.pdf (https://doc-0c-94-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/ha0ro937gcuc7l7deffksulhg5h7mbp1/p9a4n6l59s013rg1iqvlh3bk2g9jt64l/1520928000000/13576087088477451115/*/0B-qKRBuaKtzYVHJyT1ZaR292MFk?e=download) by ClaveFremen

5.2.7 Audiophile upgrades (best suggested parts)

pages 29, 30, 31 & 32.

Quote
6 - Mundorf MLythic AG in C101, C201

Mundorf AGs are a worthwhile improvement over Vishay/BC PMG-SIs.

Vishay/BC PMG-SI is an excellent base cap, though, and not a problem at all.

What you can expect:

* Blacker background and more contrast/focus

* An higher harmonic content

* Cleaner sound

* Fuller and deeper bass

The change after the upgrade is not small, pretty evident but AGs comes at over 4x the PMG-SI cost.

Is it worth it?

IMHO, absolutely yes
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 13 Mar 2018, 03:06 pm
To finnish about capacitors:

Electrolytic Capacitors Shootout - What Sounds Best for Coupling to Headphones?

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/319979-electrolytic-capacitors-shootout-sounds-coupling-headphones.html

Comparing electrolytic capacitors - May 2008, by Eric Juaneda

http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html


and the huge review (to speakers filters) by Tony Gee, a very helpful person.

Capacitor Test

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html


********* *********


Off topic

I LOVE the measures/graphs of his DIY Plutone speaker:

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Plutone.html


There are not resistors in the crossovers!!!!

If my main system room was not kidnapped by TV and family are the ones that I would like to have!
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 13 Mar 2018, 07:36 pm
Off topic again

This vinyl collection (LPx3) sounds GLORIOUS!

Mravinsky, Leningrader P - Tchaikovsky: Symphonies Nos 4, 5 & 6 "Pathetique" (1961) (2017 German pressing)

(http://www.kleifrirecords.com/server/Portal_0003974/img/products/tchaikovsky-las-tres-ultimas-sinfonias-mravinsky_3984678_xxl.jpg)

CD Edition

[Customer Reviews] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-Nos-4-Pathetique-Originals/product-reviews/B000E0W24S/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

With the III and IV of Symphony No 5 I had to stand up. You had to imagine me circling the room moving my arms vigorously as if I were the director. Adrenaline rush.

A little more I get on a tank and invade Europe  :D
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: sts9fan on 13 Mar 2018, 11:40 pm
Sound of one audiophile clapping?
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: Photon46 on 14 Mar 2018, 12:08 am
Off topic again

This vinyl collection (LPx3) sounds GLORIOUS!

Mravinsky, Leningrader P - Tchaikovsky: Symphonies Nos 4, 5 & 6 "Pathetique" (1961) (2017 German pressing)

(http://www.kleifrirecords.com/server/Portal_0003974/img/products/tchaikovsky-las-tres-ultimas-sinfonias-mravinsky_3984678_xxl.jpg)

CD Edition

[Customer Reviews] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-Nos-4-Pathetique-Originals/product-reviews/B000E0W24S/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

With the III and IV of Symphony No 5 I had to stand up. You had to imagine me circling the room moving my arms vigorously as if I were the director. Adrenaline rush.

A little more I get on a tank and invade Europe  :D

Yes, that is a very fine sounding indeed. I have that set and it's one of my favorites. I also have this release of Mravinsky/Leningrad and the 5th, it is an even better recording!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177454)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 09:00 am
This evening I will listen: Mravinsky, Leningrade PO – Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6 in B minor, Op. 74 “Pathetique” (1961) (2017 German pressing), is not in the collection LPx3.

I have this version. I will listen again.

Mravinsky, Leningrad PO - Tchaikovsky 5 (1961) (SACD 2012)

Thank you very much for the recommendation.

By the way, I am not an audiophile man but I like to verify for myself what others say works. That is why I bought a second-hand amplifier so I could experiment with what I had read over there and some original tweaks of mine. My problem is that this second system sounds so good that I do not feel the need to spend money on a new one. Maybe in a H2 predominance and the new RME ADI-2 DAC (I suspect that my cheap tweaked ODAC is the last bottleneck but before I want to see the measures/graphs/reviews and not only the writed in the very good manual, very interesting reading).

[PDF] https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 10:17 am
I already had the LPx3 collection but 2006 German Pressing. The other is from 2017.

You know, usually the year pressing is important.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: Mike B. on 14 Mar 2018, 05:10 pm
Maty, you offer a lot of good information. Did you include how to check if there is DC on the AC lines? Some of us might have clean AC.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 05:39 pm
Internet is full of opinion and more opinion -> noise. The Spanish net is much worse and a lot worse education.

In other forum, talking about the problems of ALL Rega Brio amplifiers I just wrote:

Quote
By the way,

https://www.plitron.com/news/low-noise-toroidal-technology/

[ Over the past 25 years, toroidal transformers have replaced conventional transformers in many applications because, among many other benefits, they are quieter under normal conditions. But, because of the their highly efficient nature, standard toroidal transformers become noisy under adverse line conditions, such as overvoltage and DC offset, (and tend to draw high inrush currents during start-up). With increasingly deteriorating power lines over the years, these adverse conditions are becoming more prevalent. PLITRON LONO™ toroidal transformers suit a variety of applications, but the features of these products are probably best utilized in the demanding Hi-End Audio industry, where growling transformers can represent a huge bear of a problem. ]

You know, DC Blocker :)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 05:46 pm
You need an oscilloscope to measure, and it is dangerous.

More easy:

* On the top cover of the amplifier. If you notice that the area that corresponds to the transformer is very hot, you will probably have more voltage in mains or DC.

* Noise, aka buzz, is other symptom. I think only with toroidals.

* Like the RF/EMI on mains, the DC changes during the day. If at night (or weekend or holidays like Christmas... ) the sound is much better, it is another symptom.

Better to look for professional solutions and spend less on super expensive audiophile power cables I think.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 07:05 pm
Off topic

I preferred to hear again a recent vinyl rip that I improved after trying different resamplers.

Charles Gross - Windham Hill Artists ‎– Country (An Original Soundtrack Album) 1984

https://www.discogs.com/es/Charles-Gross-Windham-Hill-Artists-Country-An-Original-Soundtrack-Album/release/1653567

the cover is other:

(https://cloud10.todocoleccion.online/discos-vinilo/tc/2017/03/02/16/33133057_042217.jpg)

CD Edition

[Customer Reviews] https://www.amazon.com/Country-Original-Soundtrack-Charles-Gross/product-reviews/B000000NG7/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

One word: BEAUTY.

B4 The Auction, Beauty, emotion, bristly hair, arms hitting the battery... It is an ideal cut for a demo.


The resampler: SSRC 24/96 Intermediate 95%

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/foobar2000/foobar2000-Resampler_SSRC-96kHz-Intermediate-95.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/foobar2000/foobar2000-Resampler_SSRC-96kHz-Intermediate-95.png)

At the eighties the digital masters have big problems with jitter. Usually this SSRC resampler is a good idea.

Now, the Tchaikovsky No 5 comparative.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 07:15 pm
Mravinsky, Leningrad PO - Tchaikovsky 5 (1961) (SACD 2012)

(http://jpophelp.com/cdscans/JPN-UCGG-9048_front.jpg)

foobar2000 1.4 beta 7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2018-03-14 20:13:21

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: EVGENY MRAVINSKY / LENINGRAD PHILHARMONIC / TCHAIKOVSKY: SYMPHONY NO.5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR9       -3.90 dB   -19.24 dB     14:33 01-1. ANDANTE - ALLEGRO CON ANIMA [SYMPHONY NO.5]
DR9       -3.38 dB   -18.93 dB     11:56 02-2. ANDANTE CANTABILE, CON ALCUNA LICENZA [SYMPHONY NO.5]
DR11      -4.45 dB   -23.08 dB      5:27 03-3. VALSE [SYMPHONY NO.5]
DR8       -3.37 dB   -16.19 dB     11:03 04-4. FINALE [SYMPHONY NO.5]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  4
Official DR value: DR9

Samplerate:        2822400 Hz / PCM Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   1
Bitrate:           5645 kbps
Codec:             DSD64
============================================


Mravinsky, Leningrader P - Tchaikovsky: Symphonies Nos 4, 5 & 6 "Pathetique" (1961) (2006 German pressing)

(http://www.kleifrirecords.com/server/Portal_0003974/img/products/tchaikovsky-las-tres-ultimas-sinfonias-mravinsky_3984678_xxl.jpg)

foobar2000 1.4 beta 7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2018-03-14 20:17:19

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Mravinsky, London Leningrad PO / Tchaikovsky - Symphonies Nos. 4, 5 & 6
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10      -3.56 dB   -20.50 dB      9:18 02-Symphony No.4 In F Minor, Op.36: 2. Andantino in modo di canzone
DR13      -3.49 dB   -23.78 dB      5:49 03-Symphony No.4 In F Minor, Op.36: 3. Scherzo. Pizzicato ostinato - Allegro
DR9       -0.84 dB   -14.93 dB      8:07 04-Symphony No.4 In F Minor, Op.36: 4. Finale (Allegro con fuoco)
DR9       -1.91 dB   -16.10 dB     14:36 05-Symphony No.5 in E minor, Op.64: 1. Andante - Allegro con anima
DR8       -1.01 dB   -15.72 dB     11:58 06-Symphony No.5 in E minor, Op.64: 2. Andante cantabile, con alcuna licenza - Moderato con anima
DR11      -2.14 dB   -19.89 dB      5:29 07-Symphony No.5 in E minor, Op.64: 3. Valse (Allegro moderato)
DR8       -0.92 dB   -13.09 dB     11:12 08-Symphony No.5 in E minor, Op.64: 4. Finale (Andante maestoso - Allegro vivace)
DR9       -1.99 dB   -16.91 dB     17:40 09-Symphony No.6 in B minor, Op.74 -'Pathétique': 1. Adagio - Allegro non troppo
DR11      -3.43 dB   -19.97 dB      8:07 10-Symphony No.6 in B minor, Op.74 -'Pathétique': 2. Allegro con grazia
DR9       -0.80 dB   -14.25 dB      8:22 11-Symphony No.6 in B minor, Op.74 -'Pathétique': 3. Allegro molto vivace
DR8       -1.80 dB   -15.82 dB      9:49 12-Symphony No.6 in B minor, Op.74 -'Pathétique': 4. Finale (Adagio lamentoso - Andante)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  11
Official DR value: DR10

Samplerate:        96000 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   24
Bitrate:           2795 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
======================================


Mravinsky, Leningrader P - Tchaikovsky: Symphonies Nos 4, 5 & 6 "Pathetique" (1961) (2017 German pressing)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/cultura/Mravinsky-Leningrader-Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-4-5-6-2017.jpg)

foobar2000 1.4 beta 7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2018-03-14 20:21:14

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Evgeny Mravinsky / Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra / Symphony No. 5 in E minor, Op. 64
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR12      -0.50 dB   -18.80 dB     14:36 05-Symphony No. 5 in E minor, Op. 64 - I. Andante - Allegro con anima
DR12      -0.03 dB   -18.61 dB     11:56 06-Symphony No. 5 in E minor, Op. 64 - II. Andante cantabile, con alcuna licenza
DR14      -0.90 dB   -22.13 dB      5:28 07-Symphony No. 5 in E minor, Op. 64 - III. Valse: Allegro moderato
DR11      -0.03 dB   -15.47 dB     11:08 08-Symphony No. 5 in E minor, Op. 64 - IV. Finale: Andante maestoso - Allegro vivace
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  4
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate:        96000 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   24
Bitrate:           2893 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
=======================================================
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 07:29 pm
The 2017 pressing with

Quote
RME Hammerfall 9632 ADC

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/hdsp_9632.php

I LOVE the very good rips made with RME ADC and Lavry AD11. But one thing is the ADC and another the DAC, so it is better to wait for the independent measurements of the RME ADI-2 DAC and RME ADI-2 Pro.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 07:35 pm
The sound?

2017 German Pressing is the BEST and with much difference.

And again I verify that most of the SACD are very badly done, missing the best technology. And this recording of classical music is not saved from the loudness war. Well, the DR 2006 pressing (Symphony No 5) is like DR SACD!


- End off topic -
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 08:36 pm
I am listening to the Country soundtrack again and when I get to the cut I feel the same again, so I double it:

Quote
B4 The Auction, Beauty, emotion, bristly hair, arms hitting the battery... It is an ideal cut for a demo.

It reminds me of the movie Mr. Jones, played by Richard Gere. The character has a bipolar disorder and can not contain himself when listening to an orchestral piece in a concert.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Jones_(1993_film) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_(film))

Quote
In one of his manic periods he jumps up onto the stage during a concert performance of Beethoven's ninth and starts conducting, resulting in his arrest...

Well, that, if someone saw me ... Adrenaline rush.

The final is very good too.

B6 Epilogue And Hymn

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_(film) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_(film))
Title: Laird-Signal Integrity Products LFB095051-000, ferrite
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 09:36 pm
finnsam has found a better ferrite and ten times cheaper!!!

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/320039-class-amp-emi-reduction-3.html#post5372182


Laird-Signal Integrity Products LFB095051-000, ferrite

http://assets.lairdtech.com/home/bra...095051-000.pdf


Würth 150 kHz

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1919956.pdf


10x Cheaper and better than Würth.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/laird-signal-integrity-products/LFB095051-000/240-2277-ND/703465


I proceed to update the post of the thread where I recommended.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 10:21 pm
https://assets.lairdtech.com/home/br...RES%200717.pdf

page 15

FOR ROUND CABLES & WIRING HARNESSES 300 KHZ TO 30 MHZ OPTIMIZE

-> LFB143064-000 70 290 1757

LFB143064-000 Laird-Signal Integrity Products | Filters | DigiKey (https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=LFB143064-000)

https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Steward%20PDFs/LFB143064-000.pdf

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Laird-LFB143064-000-ferrite-specs.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Laird-LFB143064-000-ferrite-specs.png)


Würth 150 kHz ferrite

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Wurth-150-khz-ferrite-impedance-curve.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Wurth-150-khz-ferrite-impedance-curve.png)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Mar 2018, 10:22 pm
Laird: FOR ROUND CABLES & WIRING HARNESSES 300 KHZ TO 30 MHZ OPTIMIZED

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Laird-LFB-catalog-ferrite-specs.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Laird-LFB-catalog-ferrite-specs.png)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 15 Mar 2018, 10:43 am
We need to find RF ferrites with similar specifications and ... that can open / close, which is the advantage of the Würth and others.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Mar 2018, 09:26 am
When I made my comments I was really thinking about my problems with my class AB amplifier. Class D amplifiers work inside an higher frequencies. They have more problems with EMI than RF.

From Hypex there are a interesting article about EMI and the old UcD modules but that serves for all class D.

UcD and EMI by Bruno Putzeys

https://www.hypex.nl/img/upload/doc/an_wp/AN_UcD_and_EMI.pdf

When I read these about toroidal inductors (page 4):

Quote
If you see toroids in the output filter, shudder. If it’s mounted upright, shudder once more

Quote
Wire wound inductors with multiple layers of windings. A space efficient way of winding a ferrite core is to layer windings on top of each other. First, you wind n/2 turns going from left to right, and then you proceed back from right to left with the remaining n/2. The first and last windings of the coil end up on top of each other and are free to couple capacitively.

I have rememebered this picture:

Nuprime ST-10

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Nuprime-ST-10-inside.jpg

vs

Hypex UcD180

[IMG] https://www.hifisound.de/out/pictures/master/product/2/AKT-2012402.jpg

Hypex NC500

[IMG] https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bee373_681bd32aff9f48ff87b2984d6941f6f6.jpg/v1/fill/w_246,h_222,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/bee373_681bd32aff9f48ff87b2984d6941f6f6.jpg

and

IcePower 1200AS2

[IMG] https://www.head-case.org/forums/uploads/monthly_2018_01/IcePower1200AS2.thumb.jpg.f524da0367760c3711e978bb011a4886.jpg
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Mar 2018, 10:15 am
Bruno Petzeys wrote too:

Quote
Large “audiophile” axial capacitors: Some of these are sold as “low inductance” or even “non - inductive”, but be not fooled. Apart from ye ole polystyrene caps, all film caps have schoopered (metal - sprayed) end contacts, shorting out all windings. Thei r inductance is dictated only by size. Some figures: a standard 0.2” pitch MKT: 5nH. A 1.5”x0.6” round axial cap: 20nH. Just putting one of these in an output filter increases conducted emissions by a minimum of 12dB compared to a humble MKT. If you see a large axially mounted cap in the output filter: groan in despair.

We can see a polystyrene cap:

nord NC500 buffer board

[IMG] https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bee373_e679de6402d24c97be5bf61f548adfff.jpg/v1/fill/w_992,h_614,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/bee373_e679de6402d24c97be5bf61f548adfff.jpg

And in my cheap tweaked KEF Q100 crossover too:

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover-styroflex-bypass.jpg

[IMG] http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/218281-kef-ls50-post5363031.html

I still can not find the explanation of why bypassing the tweeter capacitor I experienced the improvement. The same with the Würth 150 kHz ferrite with the woofer cables (I have an hypothesis). But I can not deny the great improvement.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Mar 2018, 10:33 am
By the way, KEF, like other companies, spend very little on speaker filters. Why they use a 10 uF bipolar capacitor? I am sure Danny Richie (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=16.0) could easily improve the crossover and sell it. Or like my cheap tweaks.

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/KEF-Q750-crossover.jpg

Borrowed picture of:

[Polish review] http://www.avtest.pl/zestawy-glosnikowe/item/767-kef-q750

[IMG] http://www.avtest.pl/images/testy/kolumny/kef-q750/KEF-Q750-8-impedancja.jpg

[IMG] http://www.avtest.pl/images/testy/kolumny/kef-q750/KEF-Q750-9-zzz.jpg

http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/reference-components/1146-recommended-reference-component-kef-q750-loudspeakers

Quote
Until now, the lowest-priced floorstanding speaker in our list of Recommended Reference Components was the KEF R500 ($2599.98 USD/pair), reviewed in August 2012, and added to the list the following month.

Hans Wetzel’s review of the KEF Q750 loudspeaker ($1499.98/pair), published in February 2018 on SoundStage! Access, changes that. In his review, Hans wrote of the Q750: “It’s one of the most neutral transducers I’ve ever heard, and for the money offers staggeringly transparent sound”...

-> https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/856-kef-q750-loudspeakers
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: Danny Richie on 17 Mar 2018, 04:24 pm
Quote
I still can not find the explanation of why bypassing the tweeter capacitor I experienced the improvement. The same with the Würth 150 kHz ferrite with the woofer cables (I have an hypothesis). But I can not deny the great improvement.

There is a well known reason for this. We use by-pass caps in several applications for the same reason. And yes the improvement can be fairly significant if done right.

Quote
I'm sure Danny Richie could easily improve the crossover and sell it. Or like my cheap tweaks.

There is still a lot of up-side potential for sure. If you want to take them up another level or two then I'll be glad to help you with it.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Mar 2018, 05:13 pm
There is a well known reason for this. We use by-pass caps in several applications for the same reason. And yes the improvement can be fairly significant if done right.

Reason? Maybe it has something to do with the harmonics, I speculate. xrk971 detected and measured what happened with a resistance from the new DIY class A ALPHA. He put a thin metal resistor and the harmonic profile changed to H3 predominant. It changed to a carbon and was H2 predominant again. Then changed to a thick metal and kept H2 predominant. Same values off course. But without measures it is only an speculation that I do not believe it much. It goes against everything I know. I have a better idea: maybe the HF distorsion. Well, I have no idea.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/318102-aksa-lender-mos-hybrid-aleph-alpha-amplifier.html

I had planned to spend much more money in the capacitors -without bypass- with the Jantzen Superior Z-Cap but I liked the improvement so much that I decided that is how it stayed. And very cheap!

I am in love with my cheap tweaked KEF Q100 coaxial speakers. I suspect that the real sensitivity is closer to 84 dB than the 86 dB advertised.

I would like to change my big boxes with the KEF Q750. The sound coherence and uniformity sound level that creates a good coaxial speaker is a wonder, magic. Let is see if there are more measurements available soon, such as frequency response and, above all, dispersion.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: Danny Richie on 18 Mar 2018, 12:17 am
maty,

Think of it like this. Capacitors charge and discharge energy. In between that time they actually store it. Larger caps have slower discharge rates because of their size. The signal is sent, they hold it for a moment, then discharge it. Huge caps are used in power supplies just for that ability. In a crossover this effect causes a slight smearing that reduces the space between notes and eats up detail levels.

Smaller caps however charge and discharge pretty quickly because of their size. Curtain types of caps can be faster as well. So when you by-pass the larger cap with a smaller one then the smaller one tends to discharge the larger one so that there is less stored energy. The result is a cleaner sound, more space between notes, and better detail levels.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 18 Mar 2018, 08:38 am
The yellow capacitor of tweeter: 3.9uF 100V.

Polystyrene: 10nF 600V = 0.01uF 600V

Both have very small capacitance.

The ATL Hi-Fi DC blocker have a small 0.47uF Vishay to by-pass the very big electrolytics EPCOS/Mundorf too. And a resistor too.

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-blocker.png) (https://www.atlhifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/DC_blocker.png)

Quote
Schematic is similar to this one used in well known Vladimir Shushurin’s Lamm-1 amplifier.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 18 Mar 2018, 08:52 am
The components that I almost bought for the KEF Q100:

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/audiohub-components-to-kef-q100-update.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/audiohub-components-to-kef-q100-update.png)

The Neotech SOCT-16 hookup wire does not appear because I was unable to dismantle the speaker for fear of damaging the crown, that must be very well stuck in my boxes.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 18 Mar 2018, 12:23 pm
Searching images about the PSU of Lamm-1 amplifier, the expensive Lamm Industries ML2.2 single-ended-triode amplifier (*):

-> https://audiofederation.com/hifiing/2005/HE2005NYC/day1/track5/index.htm

[IMG] https://audiofederation.com/hifiing/2005/HE2005NYC/day1/track5/IMG_5139.jpg

We can see a RF/EMI filter (little steel box). And a star connection over the big caps. And... the power section is very worked.

Lamm ML2.2 monoblock power amplifier Measurements

https://www.stereophile.com/content/lamm-ml22-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

H2 very predominant harmonic profile. Like DIY SS class A MoFo!

[IMG] https://www.stereophile.com/images/413Lammfig12.jpg

(*) single-ended-triode -> H2 predominant.

Title: Ferrites to attack!
Post by: maty on 19 Mar 2018, 04:28 pm
I have just read it here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/320206-jbl-lsr305-tweaking-post5377059.html

He also used ferrites to improve a speaker, in this case the cheap active monitor JBL LSR305.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=11396795&postcount=4&

Quote
Here's the full text from the above amazon review (now deleted)

Quote
By NotaSecondTime.

...I'm an engineer who has been experimenting in high-end audio/video since the dawn of home theater. This speaker is one significant breakthrough I've been waiting for, but IM discriminating HO, only sounds really good with the following $8 modification.

After a week of break-in, i made an inexpensive but audibly significant internal upgrade to the JBL LSR305 monitors.

For those who are electronically inclined, the mod replaces the two amplifier output ferrite o-rings with four of [Gino 10 Pcs Movable 7mm Inner Diameter Black Ferrite Core Ring Cable Clip UF70B] available from Amazon. So for two speakers a total of 8 new ferrite clamps is required. Cost $8 and will void your $119 investment (actually its uneconomical to send back the entire speaker for warranty service, I'd isolate & send just the amplifier module or the speaker driver)...

The modded speaker sounds considerably more refined & coherent as if cut from the same cloth. Also less distortion. Imagine seven channels for $960, or eleven bi-amped speakers for $1320. Add a powerful subwoofer and you're good-to-go...
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 19 Mar 2018, 09:11 pm
Re: Review and Measurements of SMSL M8 DAC

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-smsl-m8-dac.2457/#post-70554

Quote
I too have this DAC and have been very pleased with its performance. But at the same time, also has been susceptible to noise/hiss, which was remedied with ferrite cores on the cables.


Old pictures:

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ODAC-with_rear_RCA_outputs-Wurth-ferrite-150Khz.jpg

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/RCA-cables-Wurth-150-khz-ferrites.jpg
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 19 Mar 2018, 10:51 pm
By the way, I think that my DC Blocker prototype with Mundorf 47,000uF 125ºC is already stabilized. During these weeks I have noticed that the sound has been fluctuating, improving and getting worse. Now it takes several days sounding great with TV and the movies with my old Western HDTV.

When it sounded bad, my second system (Marantz) sounded good so by elimination it should be the burning of those fat capacitors.

In the next few days I will make the change and check if it sounds better than the more cheap EPCOS 18,000uF 105ºC (out of stock for now; Factory Lead Time: 32 weeks in Mouser).
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 20 Mar 2018, 09:13 pm
I just optimized the windows a bit more and I got a clearer sound. I hope it is not fatiguing, it is in the limit. I have lowered the LPF to 19,550 19,350 19,150 Hz to alleviate it. More clear -> less emotion?

I will need a few days to get used to the new sound. After which I will do the test with the DCB with Mundorf.

Better sound? without spending a penny.

[Update]

Now it is OK. More clear sound but less than before and EMOTION, with more bass too! LPF at 19,850 20,050 Hz. One process now always works in Real Time.

Very good sound without emotion is less, much less, addictive.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 21 Mar 2018, 05:54 pm
Love ‎– Forever Changes (1967)  2016 MFSL 45 rpm, 24/192 vinyl rip

https://www.discogs.com/es/Love-Forever-Changes/release/9015970

(https://img.discogs.com/OObR9d25xU97kI1K99_Gus8_AHY=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9015970-1476261013-8065.jpeg.jpg) (https://img.discogs.com/OObR9d25xU97kI1K99_Gus8_AHY=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9015970-1476261013-8065.jpeg.jpg)

Amazing clarity. From 1967 year! Very great sound/music/album.


CD edition and vinyl, no MFSL

[Customer Review] https://www.amazon.com/Forever-Changes-LOVE/product-reviews/B000058983/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forever_Changes

Quote
Forever Changes failed to achieve commercial success when it was first released in 1967, but it has since become recognized as one of the finest albums to come out of the Summer of Love era, ranking 40th on Rolling Stone magazine's 2003 list of The 500 Greatest Albums of All Time,[2] being inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame in 2008 as well as being added to the National Recording Registry in 2012...

The next post will be about the DC Blocker with Mundorf, I promise.


But before...

Marvin Gaye ‎– What's Going On (1971) 1986 EU, 24/96 vinyl rip

https://www.discogs.com/es/Marvin-Gaye-Whats-Going-On/release/1559040

Amazing improvement. I have heard LOVE for the first time but W'GO have been a few weeks. Incredible improvement, incredible. If you tell me, I do not believe it!

What is the point of taking the risk of buying a new amplifier? And of a new DAC even if it is the new RME ADI-2 DAC?  :icon_lol:  :scratch:

If I quantify the improvement, it is 50%

Virgencita virgencita, que me quede como estoy / Virgin little virgin, let me stay as I am

Proceed to make a copy of the windows partition!


Olivia Newton-John - If You Love Me, Let Me Know (1974) (Japan for USA 1987) {SSRC}

CD rip -> SSRC 16/44 Intermediate 95% FLAC 0

The sound is much better now. More detail, more 3D. Great songs.

With the catchy song 06. The River's Too Wide Memphis is in my room. I have heard the CD with the light off, giving walks around the room, good symptom of improvement as days ago I had to do the SSRC resampling because I was not convinced the sound.

[Customer review] https://www.amazon.com/If-You-Love-Let-Know/product-reviews/B0009JB63C/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1


Too late to play my loved Randy Travis.

Randy Travis - Greatest Hits, Vol. 1

https://www.amazon.com/Randy-Travis-Greatest-Hits-Vol/dp/B000002MFU

Ideal for the car: with this Vol.1 one imagines driving a truck on Route 666 heading for sunny California.  8)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 27 Mar 2018, 05:10 pm
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Yamaha + TV

DCB + DCBx2  all with big EPCOS

TV TDT. I have less bass, less body.


Marantz + PC

DCB Big Mundorf + DCBx4 big EPCOS

Ahmad Jamal - Ahmad's Blues (1959) I LOVE this album.

(https://c9.cduniverse.ws/resized/380x570/music/745/1001745.jpg)

foobar2000 1.4 beta 11 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2018-03-27 19:15:36

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Ahmad Jamal / Ahmad's Blues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR15      -0.10 dB   -18.20 dB      4:06 01-Ahmad's Blues
DR14      -0.10 dB   -16.46 dB      4:16 02-It Could Happen To You
DR17      -0.10 dB   -20.56 dB      3:46 03-I Wish I Knew
DR15       0.00 dB   -18.78 dB      7:40 04-Autumn Leaves
DR12      -0.91 dB   -16.10 dB      4:16 05-Stompin' At The Savoy
DR16      -0.10 dB   -19.51 dB      4:47 06-Cheek To Cheek
DR19     -0.10 dB   -22.62 dB      3:26 07-The Girl Next Door
DR17      -0.10 dB   -19.88 dB      3:52 08-Secret Love
DR15      -0.10 dB   -17.92 dB      2:19 09-Squatty Roo
DR16      -0.50 dB   -18.37 dB      4:02 10-Taboo
DR16      -0.10 dB   -23.25 dB      3:18 11-Autumn In New York
DR17      -0.10 dB   -19.43 dB      4:44 12-A Gal In Calico
DR17      -3.06 dB   -24.40 dB      2:38 13-That's All
DR15      -0.10 dB   -18.54 dB      3:40 14-Should I?
DR17       0.00 dB   -20.67 dB      3:12 15-Seleritus
DR13      -0.90 dB   -16.19 dB      5:07 16-Let's Fall In Love
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  16
Official DR value: DR16

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           929 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
==============================

02. It Could Happen To You [DR14]

I have more bass, more "body" than minutes before. Music with more energy. More blunt and dry percussion. More pleasant. More credible.

Where is the subwoofer?  :D


10. Taboo [DR16]

Tambourine saucers are more present.

More detail too in this LIVE sound. Yes, 1959, awesome.


12. A Gal In Calico [DR17]

The piano has less distorsion!


16. Let's Fall In Love [DR13]

Again, where is the subwoofer? Clear applause.


I am very happy.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 27 Mar 2018, 06:15 pm
Eagles - Hotel California (1976) Vinyl, Original US

(https://img.discogs.com/GYBa4Wr9ZgQq5oDis67prgHuQ74=/fit-in/596x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1934367-1383908438-4175.jpeg.jpg)

The best pressing and the best HC rip.

foobar2000 1.4 beta 11 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2018-03-27 20:10:24

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Eagles / Hotel California {US}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR15      -1.23 dB   -18.96 dB      6:30 01-A1 Hotel California
DR13      -1.53 dB   -18.50 dB      5:05 02-A2 New Kid In Town
DR15      -0.01 dB   -17.36 dB      4:46 03-A3 Life In The Fast Lane
DR13      -2.38 dB   -20.72 dB      4:57 04-A4 Wasted Time
DR11      -6.44 dB   -22.97 dB      1:24 05-B1 Wasted Time (Reprise)
DR14      -1.16 dB   -17.66 dB      4:10 06-B2 Victim Of Love
DR16      -1.85 dB   -21.91 dB      3:58 07-B3 Pretty Maids All In A Row
DR14      -0.47 dB   -17.22 dB      5:11 08-B4 Try And Love Again
DR13      -1.12 dB   -18.71 dB      7:22 09-B5 The Last Resort
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  9
Official DR value: DR14

Samplerate:        96000 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   24
Bitrate:           2666 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
====================================


01. A1 Hotel California [DR15]

Glorious. Bass, body, detail, vocal too. Guitar. If I even started singing! and the feet are not still. Again, glorious.

It sounds for the third time.

I had to get up from the chair. I was shaking my head following the rhythm!

EMOTION


It is the first time that the song has moved me. The sound was always excellent but lacked emotion. You know, very good sound without emotion is not the same.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 27 Mar 2018, 07:35 pm
Cardinal S02E03 "Terri"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_(TV_series) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_(TV_series))

Code: [Select]
Audio
ID                          : 2
Format                      : AC-3
Format/Info                 : Audio Coding 3
Codec ID                    : A_AC3
Duration                    : 42 min 40 s
Bit rate mode               : Constant
Bit rate                    : 384 kb/s
Channel(s)                  : 6 channels
Channel positions           : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate               : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                  : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Bit depth                   : 16 bits
Compression mode            : Lossy
Stream size                 : 117 MiB (17%)
Service kind                : Complete Main
Default                     : Yes
Forced                      : No


1' 20"

I had been waiting for days to hear the sound of rain on the lake with the MUNDORF. Much better sound, more detailed, more intelligible voices.


5' 20"

Scene at the bar. It seems that I am there or it in my room. Many background noises and conversations but that of the characters has great clarity.


To will continue...
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 28 Mar 2018, 08:56 pm
Youn Sun Nah ‎– Lento (2013), vinyl

https://www.discogs.com/es/Youn-Sun-Nah-Lento/release/4507300

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Na%2B-4QTLL.jpg)

DR13

[Customer reviews] https://www.amazon.com/Lento-YOUN-SUN-NAH/product-reviews/B00B5HE9LI/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

I am still looking for the subwoofer. Beautiful and clear female voice. Well separated instruments. More body.

Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 2 Apr 2018, 06:08 pm
Gerry Mulligan / Stan Getz ‎– Getz Meets Mulligan In Hi-Fi (1958), vinyl mono

https://www.discogs.com/es/Gerry-Mulligan-Stan-Getz-Getz-Meets-Mulligan-In-Hi-Fi/release/2511791

(https://img.discogs.com/pi4e2vKKp8fsuI8wP8ysaLsFchw=/fit-in/500x500/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2511791-1288032927.jpeg.jpg)

DR12

Glorious mono. The first theme 01. Let's Fall In Love sounds like stereo! It sounds a lot better than days ago, more addictive. 04. That Old Feeling sounds like stereo too.

CD Edition

[Customer Reviews] https://www.amazon.com/Meets-Mulligan-Hi-Fi-MULLIGAN-GERRY/product-reviews/B006YTLP8M/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 19 Apr 2018, 04:17 pm
Awesome!!!

Cornan: Audio System

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/profile/25558-cornan/?tab=field_core_pfield_3

Cornan has this ATL Hi-Fi hard in their systems:

* ATL Hi-Fi starquad JSSG DC cable and ATL AC mains starquad cable with LT3045 (12v/1A)

* ATL Hi-Fi DC Blocker Trap Filter

* ATL Hi-Fi AC mains cable and Ghent starquad JSSG DC cable with LT3045 in series (6v/500mA>5v/500mA)

* ATL Hi-Fi AC mains cable and Ghent starquad JSSG DC cable with LT3045  & Stammheims 5A HC-HPULN in series (15v/1A>14v/5A)> ATL Hi-Fi 8 conductor starquad USB cable with JSSG>

* ATL Hi-Fi AC mains cable and Ghent starquad JSSG DC cable with LT3045 in series (8v/500mA>7v/500mA)

* Gophert csp-3205II (14v/5.1A max) with ATL starquad AC mains cable and DIY Canare 4S6 with Stammheim 5A HC-HPULN in series (13v/5A>12v/5A)

* In-line ATL Hi-Fi DC blocker trap filter with DH-Labs Silver Sonic Power Power Plus & Furutech FI-E38 + FI-28> ATL Hi-Fi 200VA balanced  isolation transformer with floating secondary>

* ATL Hi-Fi starquad & star-earth wired power distributor
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 19 Apr 2018, 04:21 pm
The true experimental tweak thread by Cornan

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30634-the-true-experimental-tweak-thread/
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 22 Apr 2018, 10:27 am
Yesterday, Saturday, 238V -> bad sound in my two systems.

Sunday, 234V -> very good sound in my second system.

Variac?
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 26 Apr 2018, 08:49 am
Alternative to the expensive Mundorf MGO capacitors. But are screw terminal.


KEMET PEH200 Series, +85°C

[PDF] http://www.kemet.com/Lists/ProductCatalog/Attachments/391/KEM_A4034_PEH200.pdf

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/KEMET-PEH200-85C.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/KEMET-PEH200-85C.png)


Cheap here:

http://www.elektrodump.nl/en/51-elco-low-voltage

Elco / KEMET low voltage 47000uF 63V 85ºC  € 10

-> http://www.elektrodump.nl/en/elco-low-voltage/2222-elco-low-voltage-47000uf-63v.html
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 4 May 2018, 07:01 pm
I was informing about Don Sachs DS-2, very very very interesting 6SN7 tube preamplifer.

http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom%20line%20stage.html

http://www.tubes4hifi.com/SP14.htm

and I see two white ferrites inside!

(http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/CitationRestoration_html_files/7254.jpg)


Don Sachs SP14 Tube Preamp Review

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138092.0
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 4 May 2018, 07:57 pm
Custom KT88 Tube Amplifier

http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom%20kt88%20tube%20amp.html

It has a RF/EMI filter inlet!

(http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/CitationRestoration_html_files/7322.jpg)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 5 May 2018, 09:36 am
New and very promising thread by Jean Paul, aka JPS64, and the new design!

Univeral Power Amplifier Control Center UPACC

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/322282-univeral-power-amplifier-control-center-upacc.html#post5424517

Quote
Some power amplifier needs temperature monitoring.

Some amplifier needs fan control like ALPHA BB.

They´re builders who want VU-Meter or FFT real time visualization.

All power amplifier needs AC main power filtering; perhaps controlled powering.

Some power amplifier owner needs DC blocking.

All power amplifiers needs inrush current limiter.

Power amplifiers works with 115/230VAC 50/60Hz.

Some owners wants volume control.

And at last (but not least), some owners prefers symetrical inputs.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 11 May 2018, 05:47 pm
Deleted.

More appropiate thread:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/322282-univeral-power-amplifier-control-center-upacc-post5430751.html
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 16 May 2018, 08:16 am
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/310402-fs-ultra-low-noise-power-supply-lt3045-based-pcb-post5435017.html

by Cornan

Quote
I already do, but a balanced one (plus a DC blocker trap filter in front of it) that looks like this internally.

[IMG] https://www.computeraudiophile.com/uploads/monthly_2017_09/20170926_194113-1.jpg.465d8fe5474a6cbd36a0b90570ac9dea.jpg


It is connected to this star-earthed power distributor.

[IMG] https://www.computeraudiophile.com/uploads/monthly_2017_09/20170926_193942-1.jpg.ee5469d436c687ac7c13ff8f640592b0.jpg


This balanced *floating* isolation transformer together with the LT3045s in series is actually the biggest reason why I want to build my LPSUs.

As you can see on the picture there is a switch on the balanced isolation transformer where I can choose to *float* or *ground*. No contest in my setup. *Floating* sounds by far the best.


Both are custom made by Aleksandar (ATL Hi-Fi).

https://www.atlhifi.com/
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 26 May 2018, 09:52 am
United Chemi-Con GPD miniature electrolytics

[PDF] https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/420/UCC_GPDDatasheet-1210831.pdf

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Chemi-Con-GPD-miniature-electrolytics-table.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Chemi-Con-GPD-miniature-electrolytics-table.png)

I have only found available: 7500uF 35V EGPD350ELL752MM40H

https://www.mouser.es/ProductDetail/United-Chemi-Con/EGPD350ELL752MM40H?qs=IYueExuAvkp0C0aPkPvYcQ%3d%3d

3,74 €
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 26 May 2018, 09:54 am
[PDF] http://www.mundorf.com/english%201.1/Broschuere%20Einzelseiten/MLGO.pdf

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Mundorf-MLGO-table.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Mundorf-MLGO-table.png)


Imagine a new PCB with 2+2 Chemi-Con GPD capacitors... 1+1 en parallel -> 9 mOhms, and only EUR 7.5.

Or the current PCB and a little bit of skill.

And a DCBx4 with 4+4 Chemi-Con GPD caps.

Problem to compare, especially the ripple current: Chemi-con measures are at 100 kHz and Mundorf at 100 Hz
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 26 May 2018, 04:42 pm
New assembled product from ATL Hi-Fi (Aleksandar):

Combined module Soft Start (inrush current limiter) & DC Blocker (trap, filter) – assembled in case

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/fully-assembled-devices/combined-module-soft-start-inrush-current-limiter-dc-blocker-trap-filter-assembled-in-case/

(https://www.atlhifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/20180418_185624-1-768x576.jpg)

with the space to add a RF/EMI filter too. This is: Schaffner FN2090-16-06

http://uk.farnell.com/schaffner/fn2090-16-06/filter-1-ph-16a-chassis-mount/dp/1304862?st=FN2090
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: dtoss on 8 Oct 2018, 09:37 pm
Hi Maty
I read thru at least half of the postings but not all. Am very interested in the ATL DCB.
Seems you like the single DCB with your Mundorf MLGO 47000uF 25V upgrade best, as an improvement over the stock EPCOS from ATL.
And that the stock ATL DCB was quite decent.
Would you say that it's good enough to use just 1 DCB because the improvement is low relative to the doubling or quadrupling of costs to do DCBx2 or DCBx4.
My AC mains is not bad, don't have noticeable transformer hum.
I'm thinking to setup a DCB for my Parasound JC1 monoblocks amps, which use a 1,700VA transformer each. So maybe I should concentrate on getting enough current capacity rather than using DCBs in series, right?
Best rgds,
Denis
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 12 Nov 2018, 04:59 pm
News! DC Blocker v2

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/populated-pcb/fully-populated-dc-blocker-pcb/

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-v2.jpg)

Quote
but now the board is TWO-layer design which allows the current handling capabilities of the board to be doubled. All current conducting traces are widened as much as possible which additional raise the max. handled current.

PCB has solder mask coating on top and bottom layer for best durability.

DC Blocker is built with following parts:

– two MASSIVE 33,000 uF EPCOS capacitors
one high-current Rectifier Block
– one 10W power resistor
– one WIMA MKS4 400VAC capacitor
– two MOLEX 3-terminal connectors for AC input/output
– one PCB for DC Blocker.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 12 Nov 2018, 05:02 pm
and HIGH-POWER DC Blocker Trap Filter – Assembled Device

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/fully-assembled-devices/high-power-dc-blocker-trap-filter-assembled-device/

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-High-power-assembled.jpg)

Quote
Here is offered a fully assembled device capable to handle VERY HIGH CURRENTS (up to 30 Amperes!!!).

Because of such high currents using a standard PCBs is not possible. Instead of that a 2mm thick pure copper bussbars are used to connect the filter’s parts.

In order to carry such high loads the part’s values are upraised accordingly:

– FOUR MASSIVE 47,000 uF High-Quality KEMET capacitors
50 Amperes rated Bridge Rectifier
– one 25W power resistor
2 mm thick pure copper bussbars used for connection of the filter’s part.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 12 Nov 2018, 05:26 pm
Sorry I am late.

...My AC mains is not bad, don't have noticeable transformer hum.
I'm thinking to setup a DCB for my Parasound JC1 monoblocks amps, which use a 1,700VA transformer each. So maybe I should concentrate on getting enough current capacity rather than using DCBs in series, right?

The new High-Power DC Blocker to 1,700 VA maybe is what you need.

Send a e-mail to Aleksandar. Or maybe the new High-Power was made to you!
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 12 Nov 2018, 06:02 pm
Hi Maty,

I finally finished my first DIY project. It uses Sjostrom Audio's DCT03 blocker and 3 Fo-Felix EMI filters.
I tried it out on an old receiver and it's working perfectly. I only wish I had some test equipment to make some measurements.

Anyway, I thought I'd upload some photos to show you, and maybe get some feedback.
I decided to only hook-up the blocker to the 17 amp coil that goes to the power amp outlet.

Do you think that's the best way to do it, or should I hook-up the blocker to all the outlets?  (One 17 amp coil, and two 3 amp coils for sources).

The paint job will end up being black lacquer on the front, black hammered paint on the sides and silver metallic on the rear. The blue was an experiment.

Thanks

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186678)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186679)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186680)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186681)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 12 Nov 2018, 08:42 pm
Trial and error like me.

Go adding to the chain. When you notice loss of quality in the sound instead of improving, it is that the attenuation is excessive and reduces the dynamics.

Now I have only the DC Blocker x4 ME with the Marantz because I have less noise in the grid. And DCB (Mundorf) + DCB + DCBx2 with the Yamaha.

And I added mass to my cheap tweaked KEF Q100 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150792.0) coaxial speakers. With ALL the tweaks they sound much better than new. KEF skimmed on the furniture, with thin DM walls. Now, with less ressonances, better and more clear sound.

And I have optimized more my Win10 Pro 64 bits 1709 to play multimedia -> better sound again. They tell me and I do not believe it!

In my Linux I have not been able to improve both the sound  :(

It is fundamental to optimize the OS and you do not have to spend a penny!
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 12 Nov 2018, 09:08 pm
Just now I have opened an e-mail from Aleksandar with pictures.

ATL-Hi-Fi DC Blocker High power with BIG transformer (*)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-High-power-with-big-transformer-case-inside.jpg)

(*) It seems a balanced isolation transformer + DC Blocker High power


"currently I'm working on a case for the High-power version"

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-High-Power-case-prototype.png)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-High-Power-case-prototype-inside.png)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 12 Nov 2018, 10:33 pm
Talking about balanced...

DIY: Balanced Power Transformer

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?PHPSESSID=0ce57df545cd4f439384e6d3feaba0c9&topic=246335.0;all

with a soft start

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bd1747_15f5b3c7d561491a8f0017bb73881da3~mv2_d_3024_4032_s_4_2.jpg/v1/fit/w_1000,h_1000,al_c,q_80/file.jpg)


Eric's Power Distribution Center

http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/esantane/movies/Filter.html

(http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/esantane/movies/complete.jpg)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 20 Dec 2018, 10:04 am
Audio Power Amplifier Design 6th Edition, by Douglas Self

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41kjGH8s%2BVL._SX402_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

http://douglas-self.com/

https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Power-Amplifier-Design-Douglas-ebook/dp/B00DS83C3S/

[Big IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Douglas-Self-Audio-Power-Amplifier-Design-1-The-study-of-amplifier-design.png

Distortion in power amplifiers, Part I: the sources of distortion By Douglas Self, 01.02.08
https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1274876

Quote
The Study of Amplifier Design

Although solid-state amplifiers have been around for some 40 years, it would be a great mistake to assume that everything possible is known about them. In the course of my investigations, I discovered several matters which, not appearing in the technical literature, appear to be novel, at least in their combined application:

* The need to precisely balance the input pair to prevent second-harmonic generation.

* The demonstration of how a beta-enhancement transistor increases the linearity and reduces the collector impedance of the Voltage-Amplifier Stage (VAS).

* An explanation of why BJT output stages always distort more into 4 U than 8 U.

* In a conventional BJT output stage, quiescent current as such is of little importance. What is crucial is the voltage between the transistor emitters.

* Power FETs, though for many years touted as superior in linearity, are actually far less linear than bipolar output devices.

* In most amplifiers, the major source of distortion is not inherent in the amplifying stages, but results from avoidable problems such as induction of supply-rail currents and poor power-supply rejection.

* Any number of oscillograms of square-waves with ringing have been published that claim to be the transient response of an amplifier into a capacitive load. In actual fact this ringing is due to the output inductor resonating with the load, and tells you precisely nothing about amplifier stability.

Audio Power Amplifier Design Handbook, 5th Edition, by Douglas Self

https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/audio-power-amplifier/9780240521626/
[/list]
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 21 Dec 2018, 10:01 am
HIGH-POWER DC Blocker Trap Filter – Assembled in Case

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/fully-assembled-devices/high-power-dc-blocker-trap-filter-assembled-in-case/

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-blocker-high-power-inside.jpg)

Quote
Here is offered device capable to handle VERY HIGH CURRENTS (up to 30 Amperes!!!) assembled in a steel case – black powder coated.

Because of such high currents using a standard PCBs is not possible. Instead of that a 2mm. thick pure copper bussbars are used to connect the filter’s parts.

In order to carry such high loads the part’s values are upraised with 4 x 47 000 uF capacitors, 25W power resistor etc.

The capacitor block is firmly connected to the bottom of the case with brackets and rubber sheet...


without case:

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/fully-assembled-devices/high-power-dc-blocker-trap-filter-assembled-device/

Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 21 Dec 2018, 05:35 pm
After reading a private email (from other forum), I think it is convenient to leave in writing:

I do not sell any audio device and I do not receive any commission from any vendor.

If someone knows of a better or equivalent product, I would ask you to comment on the thread, because I am the first interested in the search for excellence, in audio or in any other field.

Every time I find it harder to participate in the open Internet :(
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 2 Jan 2019, 04:03 pm
Informative reading about SMPS noise or 'conducted ripple'.

SMPS for Hi-Fi?

by Eva #4

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/45589-smps-hi-fi-post510829.html

Quote
'Noise' is a classic misconception about SMPS

Speaking properly, there is no noise in SMPS, since noise by definition is a signal of random nature and what SMPS produce on their output is periodic 'ripple' as any 50/60Hz supply. We could call this 'conducted ripple'

This ripple is usually a sawtooth waveform and it may have some RF ringing on transients [on the peak and valley of the sawtooth cycle]. There's not much difference from 50/60Hz supplies, except the ripple frequency is about 1000 times higher.

As in 50/60Hz supplies, ripple is easily filtered with pi filters and it may be attenuated as desired [even below noise floor], but with the advantage of size since 100Khz pi filters are much smaller and cheaper than 100Hz pi filters...

Note: Eva designs class D amplifiers to professional audio.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Feb 2019, 06:18 pm
I think what I just wrote in other forums (The diyAudio First Watt M2x) (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/321925-diyaudio-watt-m2x-post5701193.html) is relevant in this thread as well. There for the Mumetal and here for the toroidal transformers.

Audio Transformers by Bill Whitlock

[PDF] http://www.jensen-transformers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Audio-Transformers-Chapter.pdf (http://www.jensen-transformers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Audio-Transformers-Chapter.pdf)

Page 9

Quote
The effectiveness of magnetic shielding is generally rated in dB. The transformer is placed in an external magnetic field of known strength, generally at 60 Hz. Its output without and with the shield is then compared. For example, a housing of 1/8" thick cast-iron reduces pickup by about 12 dB and a Mumetal can by about 30 dB. Where low-level transformers operate near strong magnetic fields, several progressively smaller shield cans can be nested around the transformer. Two or three Mumetal cans can provide 60 dB and 90 dB of shielding respectively. In very strong fields, because high-permeability materials might saturate, an iron or steel outer can is sometimes used.
   
Toroidal power transformers can have a weaker radiated magnetic field than other types. Using them can be an advantage if audio transformers must be located near them. However, a toroidal transformer must be otherwise well designed to produce a low external field. For example, every winding must completely cover the full periphery of the core. The attachment points of the transformer lead wires are frequently a problem in this regard. To gain size and cost advantages, most commercial power transformers of any kind are designed to operate on the verge of magnetic saturation of the core. When saturation occurs in any transformer, magnetic field essentially squirts out of the core. Power transformers designed to operate at low flux density will prevent this. Often a standard commercial transformer, when operated at reduced primary voltage, will have a very low external field.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 29 Jun 2019, 08:03 am
I agree with Danny Richie at 100%.  It is a process of trial and error until you find the maximum attenuation without the dynamics of the music being affected.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164405.msg1748970#msg1748970

Again, your amps were effected by those changes here as well.

We have also found that A/C power conditioning and filtering to be pretty tricky. Too much can cause as much of an issue as not enough. I've tried power cables with a high level of filtering of RFI and EMI plugged straight into the wall on a piece of gear and got fairly good results. But plugged into the balanced power supply it was too much and sucked the upper detail, spacial ques, and life right out of the music. But a power cable with much less filtering characteristics worked great with the balanced power supply...

It is cheaper to use RF/EMI Schaffner inlet filters and Würth 150 kHz ferrites and other tricks.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Jul 2019, 02:33 pm
Aleksandar has a new product: DC Blocker/Trap/Filter + Common Mode Filter:

PCB for Combined DC Blocker (trap) & EMI/RFI filter

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/bare-pcb/pcb-for-dc-trap-blocker-and-emi-rfi-cm-filter/


Scheme

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-DCB-CMF-scheme.jpg.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-DCB-CMF-scheme.jpg.png)


For now, only the PCB.

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-only-PCB-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-filter.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-only-PCB-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-filter.jpg)


Assembled PCB, as an example

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-PCB-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-filter.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-PCB-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-filter.jpg)


Quote
...The unit proposed here is comprised by two sections – a DC Blocker/Trap/Filter and a Common Mode Filter (CMF).

The DC trap section will remove or at least lower the toroidal transformer buzzing. Schematic is similar to this one used in well known Vladimir Shushurin’s Lamm-1 amplifier. An article with in-dept explanation of how DC blockers work can be found on Rod Elliot’s site ( http://sound.whsites.net/articles/xfmr-dc.htm ).

The Common Mode Filter will deal with the high frequency pollution in the AC Mains Network. It was inspired by the very successful Felix project ( https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=25757.0 )
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Jul 2019, 02:47 pm
WireNut, in this thread, wrote about Fo-Felix EMI filters:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=e9f4062hcme74m9r92p1kgk8s2&topic=153802.msg1713704#msg1713704

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186680)


https://www.google.com/search?q=Fo-Felix+EMI+filters

-> New Felix Power Line Conditioner “FO-Felix”

         https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156879.0

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=178617)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: WireNut on 17 Jul 2019, 03:03 pm
Hi Maty,

I like that PCB. Nice to have everything on one board.
I'll have to get a couple.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Jul 2019, 03:25 pm
FO-Felix in the house by MttBsh

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=adc7vbp9cbqehppjmfba10l3o5&topic=161544.0

Quote
...Once installed, it took a few days for me to really begin to hear improvements, but now, a week in, those improvements have gone from subtle to transformative. The best word I can think of to describe the sound I'm getting now is "effortless". Any trace of stridency, boominess or glare that was present is gone. The sound is more clear, wide open and "fuller", with uncanny 3D depth and the deepest bass I've ever heard, low level details are floating in the air. These are exactly the kinds of improvements I had hoped good power conditioning could provide, but it's much more than I expected...

One of the main bottlenecks of our audio systems is the quality of the electricity supply that we suffer. In the real world we have to live with the imperfections but we can try to minimize them, spending as little as possible for it, using technical / professional solutions.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Jul 2019, 03:53 pm
Well, the assembled and tested version already exists:

Combined module DC Blocker (trap, filter) & EMI/RFI/Common Mode Filter – assembled and tested PCB

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/populated-pcb/combined-module-dc-blocker-trap-filter-and-emi-rfi-cm-filter-assembled-and-tested-pcb/

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-PCB-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-filter-ensambled-47000mF-EPCOS.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-PCB-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-filter-ensambled-47000mF-EPCOS.jpg)

Quote
...The unit has following abilities:

DC Blocker Section

It is calculated to handle max. current of up to 16A
– On the board are mounted 6 discrete high-power diodes 10A4 which yield the max. DC Blocking voltage of approx. 2 Vdc.
two MASSIVE 47,000 uF EPCOS capacitors (the bigger is capacitance, the higher are handled currents).
– one 10W power resistor.
– one bypass WIMA MKS4 400VAC capacitor.


Common Mode Filter Section

It is calculated to have a corner frequency of approx. 20 kHz and max. handled current of 20A with the parts used
– 4 pcs. X2 type safety polypropylene capacitors
– 2 pcs. Y2 type safety polypropylene capacitors
– Triad Magnetics Common Mode Choke, rated at 20A
– AC input/output connectors can be of the following types:
– 3-pins terminal blocks with lead spacing 5 mm.

NOTE: Some parts of the unit (DC Blocker’s electrolytic capacitors and diodes, Common Mode Choke, X2/Y2 capacitors, Input/Output terminals) can be replaced with another ones upon customer’s request, as it’s shown on the pictures.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 18 Jul 2019, 04:58 pm
Today we have the graphs.


In-depth explanation and examples of Common Mode Filters can be found here:

[PDF] https://www.schaffner.com.tw/fileadmin/media/downloads/application_note/Schaffner_AN_RB_common_chockes.pdf


In the process of CMF simulation the following results were outlined:

The damping resistors lower the spike in frequency response with approx. 20 dB

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-CMF_no_damping_resistors.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-CMF_no_damping_resistors.png)

CMF without damping resistors


(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-CMF_with_damping_resistors.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-CMF_with_damping_resistors.png)

CMF with damping resistors


Removing the load-side shunt capacitors (as supposed in the Fo-Felix version of the filter) will give us a smoother frequency response but the corner frequency is shifted to the higher frequencies approx. 25 times

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-CMF_no_load-side_shunt_capacitors.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/ATL-Hi-Fi-CMF_no_load-side_shunt_capacitors.png)

CMF without load-side shunt capacitor

Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: rollo on 18 Jul 2019, 05:07 pm
  Good work. Thank you for the effort and time spent as well for the graphs. I would be curious to see same graphs for a PC that one can buy. Furman, PS audio Shunyata, etc. Is the DIY version better, worse, close enough for the money.
  Maybe another thread.


charles
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 18 Jul 2019, 05:35 pm
The problem of the dirt present in mains does not stop to increase because of the new gadgets. The last and inevitable are LED lights and dimmers. Unfortunately many of those lights and dimmers from Asia and cheap breach the regulations on EMC before the passivity of the authorities, as is already the case with cheap SMPS chargers.

[PDF] https://www.schaffner.com.tw/fileadmin/media/downloads/application_note/Schaffner_AN_RB_common_chockes.pdf

page 4

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Schaffner_AN_RB_common_chockes-lighting-products-cut.png)

I was unaware that the new problem starting at 9 kHz !!!
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 27 Oct 2019, 09:49 am
Aleksandar already sells RF/EMI common mode filters+ DC Blocker assembled inside a box.

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/fully-assembled-devices/combined-module-dc-blocker-emi-rfi-common-mode-filter-assembled-in-case/  € 100 + shipping

Quote
Common Mode Filter Section

It is calculated to have a corner frequency of approx. 20 kHz and max. handled current of 20A with the parts used

– 4 pcs. X2 type safety polypropylene capacitors
– 2 pcs. Y2 type safety polypropylene capacitors
– Triad Magnetics Common Mode Choke, rated at 20A


The PCB is mounted in a steel enclosure with following characteristics:

– Schurter IEC power inlet with fuse
– Schneider AC Power outlet (Schuko, French, Euro-American, United Kingdom or Italian).
– steel case black powder coated
– 4 small rubber feet underneath the case.

Dimensions of Combined module DC Blocker & EMI/RFI/CMF: 125x165x75 mm. (WxDxH).
Weight: ~ 1.25 kg.

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Audio-combined-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-common-mode-case-inside-side.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Audio-combined-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-common-mode-case-inside-side.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Audio-combined-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-common-mode-case-inside.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Audio-combined-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-common-mode-case-inside.jpg)

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Audio-combined-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-common-mode-case-rear.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Audio-combined-DC-Blocker-RF-EMI-common-mode-case-rear.jpg)


I have not tried them but the attenuation graph is spectacular. If I ordered one for me it would be with the expensive but very good BIG Mundorf Mlytics in the DC Blocker. My problem is that I do not need a new DC Blocker, at least try the RF/EMI common mode filter if I finally buy or build a new amplifier (maybe with new PURIFI 1ET400A kit modules (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-purifi-1et400a-amplifier.7984/) with switched PSU and RME ADI-2 DAC (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-of-rme-adi-2-dac-and-headphone-amp.7546/) like a preamp too) to my second audio system.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 17 Nov 2019, 11:44 am
Now, the DC Blocker v3

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/fully-assembled-devices/dc-blocker-trap-filter-assembled-in-case/

Quote
It retains most of the previous unit’s abilities but for the first time now the customer can chose a board with 6 discrete diodes which increases the ability for DC blocking up to 2 Vdc.

DC Blocker is built with following parts:

– MASSIVE 47 000 uF EPCOS capacitors (upgrade over the older 33000uF)
– Six high-voltage diodes 10A4 (2V DC Blocking voltage) or one bridge rectifier (1.4V DC Blocking voltage)
– 10W power resistor
– WIMA MKS4 400VAC capacitor
– MOLEX 3-terminal connectors for AC input/output
– Schurter IEC power inlet with fuse
– Schneider AC Power outlet (Schuko, French, Euro-American, United Kingdom) or IEC C14 outlets
– steel case black powder coated
– 4 small rubber feet underneath the case.

Optimized picture

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Audio-DC-Blocker-v3-inside.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Audio-DC-Blocker-v3-inside.jpg)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 29 Dec 2019, 08:42 am
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/when-to-use-how-to-choose-a-power-conditioner.9629/page-3#post-291419

by trl

(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/mains_outlet_sine_02-png.43592/) (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/mains_outlet_sine_02-png.43592/)

Mains AC - 230V measured with an 230-115V converter (a coil/inductor placed in series)


(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/mains_outlet-smps_sine_01-png.43593/) (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/mains_outlet-smps_sine_01-png.43593/)

Same as above, but with a low-quality (probably defective) SMPS in the same outlet (notice the THD increase due to the DC added on top)


(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/vacuum_cleaner_1-png.43594/) (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/vacuum_cleaner_1-png.43594/)

Noise measured between Null and Earth when vacuum runs (it is pretty close to zero without vacuum cleaner)


Most of the time I prefer to use an isolation transformer (a cheap one) to my audio stuff (not to my speakers amp) because there's some filtering that is done by the transformer, also the removal of the DC coming from the bad switching supplies (if exists nearby). Also, if a poor SMPS gets inserted into the outlet from the outputs of the transformer, then there's going to be a strange noise coming from transformer's coils, so it's easy to troubleshoot which SMPS is not OK and which one is not.

- End of quote -
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 3 Jan 2020, 11:24 am
As I have already written about RF / EMI in this thread, I take the opportunity to add a very interesting new link. Only 30 graphs!!!

Sensitivity of opamps to air coupled EM fields, especially of the LM4562/LME497X0 family (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sensitivity-of-opamps-to-air-coupled-em-fields-especially-of-the-lm4562-lme497x0-family.10687/#post-296536) by PMA

Quote
This has been (and will be) a long story that started back in the year 2008 when I started with intensive testing of various opamps concerning their susceptibility to electromagnetic fields in the air or from the inside of the instruments. Quite a long row of opamps was tested, including uA741, uA1458, LM358, OP97, TL071, TL072, AD829, AD844, AD797, AD825, LT1028, LT1122, OPA134, OPA2134, OPA627, OPA211, OPA827, LM6171, LM4562, LME49710, LME49720, NE5532. So they were both BJT and JFET input stage opamps, slow and fast, low supply current or standard supply current. Some of them performed very well and were almost unaffected by a “normal” lab or home environment EM field that surrounded the test PCB or box, some were performing “moderately” and some were performing very poorly, reacting to a slightest change of EM field in their vicinity, like changing their position on a test bench or approaching a hand or just a move of the air or of the body at a 1m distance.

In general, JFET input opamps have had no problems and the behavior of BJT input opamps was very different, from excellent immunity to horrible sensitivity to a slightest change in their vicinity. As a conclusion, absolutely worst behavior was that of the LM4562/LME49710/LME49720 family, bought several times in the past 12 years, directly from the manufacturers or authorized distributors.

No fakes, no cheap buys. Every time I published some of the results, it started strong reactions and dissatisfaction, especially of the people involved in audio production who have been using those parts that did not perform well...

* 1st round, March 2008

* 2nd round of measurements

* 3rd round of measurements, January 2016

* Battery power

* 4th round of measurements, January 2020

(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/fig30-png.44467/) (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/fig30-png.44467/)

Fig.30. Noise gain 86dB test, LM4562 output for 100Hz input.


Conclusion

Quote
As a conclusion, there was never a problem with JFET input opamps, there was never a problem with bipolar input opamps AD797, LT1028, AD844, there were slight issues with LM6171 and NE5532 and there were big issues, always, with the LM4562/LME497X0 family. This family of opamps is extremely sensitive to EM fields in their vicinity, mains frequency 50Hz triggers them during zero crossing and they send narrow spikes to their output, in 100ms distances and of amplitude that depends on shielding.

This can be cured extremely well shielded box that shields not only against electric field component, but also against magnetic field component. The problem may remain hidden, sometimes it disappears with respect to momentary EM field conditions, but can be seen also for gains as low as -1 in the professional TI LME49720NABD evaluation board. The problem was observed by various soundcards and PCs in 2 independent measuring places and also by using analog and DSO scopes. It looks like a duck, it quack like a duck, so it would be a duck.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 3 Jan 2020, 11:30 am
Why did I select precisely that graphic? Because LM4562 is the opamp used in the very expensive Hypex NC1200 class D amplifier.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hypex-nc1200-quality-of-the-implementations.7918/

I just want to remember that since I participated in the threads on the new IcePower 1200AS2 I insisted again and again on the importance of having a suitable box to avoid RF / EMI.

Then about the cables and starquad geometry.

Before, RF / EMI filters and 150 kHz ferrites too.
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 14 Jul 2020, 08:35 am
DC Scraper kit for the GT-102 (NODC) - $24.95
https://www.akitika.com/akitikastore.html#GT-102A

(https://www.akitika.com/pictures/DC_Scraper_AssembledC.jpg)

[ You can install the DC scraper kit to quiet the buzz. It works by removing the DC component of the input power, leaving just the AC that all transformers love. So, even if your neighbors (or you yourself) have a heat pump or air-conditioner that draws nasty asymmetric currents when it runs, you can Scrape away all the DC, and keep your transformer quiet... ]

[PDF] https://www.akitika.com/documents/DCScraperAssemblyManualRev1p02.pdf


YouTube DC Scraper Kit for the GT-102 Nullifies the Effect of Asymmetric Power (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80XN7OHoBSc&feature=emb_title)
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 27 Aug 2022, 10:21 am
$25  :P

Cable shielding and a DIY power cord
https://alpha-audio.net/background/cable-shielding-and-a-diy-power-cord/

Build your own budget HiFI power cable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DniCaAJqkxQ&t=24s


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=244176)


Partslist

Sleeve: Ali-Express - https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005002520404859.html

Koperfolie: Amazon - https://www.amazon.nl/Geepro-koperfolie-tape-geleidende-lijm/dp/B01KHFTDT6/

Pluggen: Ali Express - https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32843646640.html
Title: Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Post by: maty on 13 Oct 2023, 03:47 pm
Alpha Labs - Your amp might be struggling! Influence of noise on an amplifier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoiRRJFREIk

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257509&size=xlarge)